You’re not the only person who has noticed this. I differ vehemently with stujo4 on Pierre Thomas—I think he’s the real deal. (He was a record-setting back in the Big 10, for crying out loud…it’s not like he’s a mutt.) And Reggie? If you take his receptions and rushes together and figure them as “touches”—which is, I’m sure, what Payton is doing—he’s got just as good an average as any back in the league. The problem is that it forces the adoption of an offensive philosophy that can best be described as “finesse”—exactly what the Saints are accused of. They’re not a tough, hit-you-in-the-face, physically dominant team, and that’s why they have problems closing out games. And if they didn’t have that problem, they’d be 9-2 right now. So the problem, really, is more than simply “which back will get us the most yards”; it’s more like “what type of team do we want to be?”

Still, I think most of the problem is the line’s inability to spring Bush. When Reggie turns on the jets, he’s like Willie Parker, or a smaller Eric Dickerson: gone before you can blink. But he can’t make his own holes, and he doesn’t run over people like Pierre does. Until the Saints can figure out a way to make Reggie a legitimate rushing threat, these questions are going to plague both them and him.

Isn’t this always true?

I keep going back to an old interview with Duece.
He basicly said. He started small early in the game but as the game wore on his yards got longer. He didnt put it to him getting in a rythem totally. It was also that the defense got to see him bashing into him over and over and over and over… And they got softer.

Right now we dont do that with any back. The defense is fresh against the run all game long. There is no putting it to bed in the 4th with the run because they are not worn down in the 4th as they would be if we were running it at them in the first 3 quarters.

Coach is too quick to abandon the run because we are a pass first team.

Just as an aside about how some people have commented that Deuce “looked old” on Monday night…i don’t know about that…its the same scenario…you cant get any rhythm going if you aren’t getting the ball…you can’t expect him to produce a tonne of yards when you are using him ala Lendale White…to me Deuce always started slow and wore down teams by running them over…in Payton’s defense he is not given that opportunity…whenever Deuce gets put out on the field the other team knows a run is coming and as such prepare for an attempt to stop the bruiser…either that or they commit to stopping Deuce and it opens up a passing play (in the case of Billy Millers TD if i am not mistaken, correct me if i am wrong)…

However, i do wholeheartedly agree that Pierre Thomas is and should be the Saints power running game over Reggie…i would rather see Bush come out in twin back sets and get a little screen pass or set-up as a receiver…Pierre powers over people…Oh la la…Tabernac!

Of course I want some of this action. There are a million things I should be doing right now other than this,but….well….damnit dave, you sucked me in. Here is a link for a little history on my position…

http://www.canalstreetchronicles.com/2008/10/19/638459/reggie-s-out-and-i-m-happy

Now, addressing the fact that Reggie is coming back. I really hope Payton has realized that when he hands the ball off in the backfield, it shouldn’t be Reggie. F it, line him up at WR, or hey, maybe with with PT AND Reggie at the SAME time.

I mean does anyone else think that it was a little easier for Drew because Pierre avg over 5 YPC? It’s OK… I’ll wait……I’m just saying.

While I truly believe and will back up those statements, I would like to clarify the fact that I LOVE Reggie, and what he brings. I just feel like we lose WAY to much when we hand him the ball in the backfield.

Reggie used as a decoy more. He demands so much attention, and he could help PT’s running game even more and possibly help his own running game. Just a thought, but I don’t think the whole “we’re 3-1 without Reggie” argument holds water. If you ask me, we wouldn’t have had a chance against the redskins or Vikings and we wouldn’t have won the first Tampa game.

This Tampa game will set the tone for the rest of the year, so this weekend is a big one.

I don’t want to highjack the thread, but ESPN is ridiculous.
Seems to me that they are pushing the LeBron to NY issue for their own agenda.
Also, they just asked someone if there was any truth to trading Brady to someone while his value was high, and keeping Cassel because he’s young. The guy just responded that there wasn’t any truth to that.
It is so annoying. I wish I had NFLN

A very good point you made. It’s a much different strategy with Bush in the game. I agree with the points about him making us more of a finesse team too.

I really think the inconsistency on the line of scrimage has been one of our biggest problems though, and I think it will be a deciding factor in how next week turns out. Reggie or no Reggie.

PT has done well these past two games, but the two teams in the last two games also have some of the worst rushing defenses in the nfl.

KC – 31 of 32 allowing 165 yds/gm
GB – 26 of 32 allowing 143 yds/gm

stats link

Please put Reggie and Pierre, Hell Reggie and Deuce, together in the backfield. It was so effective in 06’ and has since been abandoned…. Don’t get it!

You said it all right here:

I think the problem lies more in how Payton continues to use him. Regardless, when Reggie is healthy and out on the field everything just feels more…forced.

Just as Payton sometimes gets a little too pass-happy, he sometimes gets a little too Reggie-happy. I understand that Reggie can be a big playmaker sometimes, but those hand-offs to Reggie while alone in the backfield with no FB blocker rarely seem to work. I hope to see Reggie in more two-back sets with Pierre or Deuce. I think the rest of the league has caught on to and figured out how to limit the production of those little swing passes to Reggie on the outside. Nevertheless, those tend to work well when they catch the defense in the right formation.

I like what I’ve seen from Pierre Thomas. He may be a bit small, but he’s all muscle. Remember that video we saw of him before training camp where he was clothes shopping in New York? Dude is ripped!!! I like how he always fights for extra yardage and with good ball control skills. The fact that he hasn’t fumbled very often is another good thing about him (knock on wood). I’d rather see a healthy Deuce incorporated more, but since that doesn’t seem possible right now, I’m very glad we have Pierre on our team. Whether or not he should be the power back of the future for the Saints is a little more uncertain to me. I expect Pay-loo to use one of our few remaining early round picks on a power running back next year.

While the stats and/or win-loss record show that we are better (on paper) without Reggie, I still can’t help but think a healthy Reggie Bush is an asset to our team. Just his presence as a duel threat on the field is enough to change entire defensive schemes. Just how healthy is he right now? I’d be inclined to keep him on the sidelines if we are on a winning streak, but that’s just the superstitious ol’ coonass in me talking.

As far as the other backs – I’m undecided. Thomas, while small, has potential to be an every down back – but for how long?

But what the heck do I know? I’m just another couyon fan wit’ an opinion. Y’all go on back to your lives.

hahahahaha

I know yall knew I would chime in since yall talking about family ;)

Here’s the thing: The Saints have been playing week rushing defenses. Kansas and Green Bay are not two teams to necessarily judge PT by.

Look at Reggie’s last game. He averaged 6.1 yards in the first half before he was taken out. Notice the blocking scheme in the last few games. It’s zone. I assume they’ve been working on it and the linemen are starting to get it finally—it takes time to perfect.

As far as touches. I don’t know if Brees necessarily feels like he “has” to give it to Reggie. For the most part homie is catching check-down passes that Brees is throwing to avoid sacks. It’s not like he’s running routes and its not like he’s getting more than 12 carries a game. PT has been averaging over that in the last couple games. Do you know how many yards Reggie had when he last got at least 15 or more carries? And what was his average yards per carry? 73 yards and 4.1ypc respectively. My assumption is that if the Saints keep blocking the way they are all this “PT should be the feature back…” will cease. He’s coo but Reggie is the man. And pukenbowl said it best. Reggie kept those close losses close and put us up to win in Tampa. Who have we beaten that has a great record since Reggie has been out. All .500 teams and below. So 3-1 without him is deceptive. What were our losses like in games without Reggie? Pretty darn horrible. If Payton uses Reggie like he has used PT the last few games Reggie will gain your respect. Sure you respect him now and want him here, so to speak, but there’s way too much skepticism about him. It’s more the coaches and Olines fault. Let’s see what happens over the next couple games. I think he’s 100% now so we’ll see.

threw that in for you National, not confirming whether it’s true or not…you would think though if he was fam he’d give me a stinkin interview—but there’s complications to that—pfft! Good article by the way!

I feel that Reggie’s hesitation, for whatever reason, is the primary reason he does not gain the yardage when running between the tackles. I think that if would just run where he is supposed to run as fast as he can he would have a lot more success there. I mean it is my opinion, and really, who the hell am I? But I really believe that as soon as he studders to make whatever adjustment it is that he wants to make, not only does it ususally end up with a poor down and distance, but he loses one of his best, if not THE best attribute, his speed. I mean imagine if he hit the hole running just off the guards shoulder…..I think he’d be there so fast the D-line wouldn’t have a chance. That already puts him in the second level w/ possible one v. one’s w/ Linebackers. That’s what I’m talking about, your boy does work there! And I know sometimes the line isn’t the greatest, and Payton isn’t calling a running backs game at all. But I feel like that could be compensated for if he just ran. Man, I’d love to see it. Seriously, not sarcastically. If he were a consistent threat through the middle, he would be the ultimate weapon to have on offense. He might already be, time will tell. Tay, you don’t have to comment if you don’t want to, just let me know if you read it. I don’t want you thinking I’m not a fan.

and sometimes i see that too. Sometimes he’s just waiting for the whole to open and other times I’m like dude if you sprinted through that, man!!! I don’t worry there are fans who nearly hate Reggie so I’m not knockin you. Your observation has some validity to it. But all in all I still think its the line and the way Payton calls. Not to mention that he’s keyed on. Adrian Peterson is keyed on too but he has the line to equalize that. But as of late the line looks better.

I agree that it does feel forced when Payton runs it all through Bush to get him the ball as much as possible.

But I do like the idea of Reggie being back on the field and present as a threat on punt returns and in the offense that makes us even more potent.

I agree (see my postings from August) that we should plug PT (or a combo of PT and some other rb) into the Deuce role of 2006 so that the offense can get to be more balanced like in 2006.

Another note: Reggie’s been a Saint for 3 seasons. In 2 of them (2007 and 2008) he has been injured and missed significant chunks of the season (at least 4 games). In one of them (2006), he has not. In those injury seasons of 2007 and 2008, Payton has put him in the main running back AND satellite pass-catching role. In 2006, Deuce was in the main RB role and Reggie was the pass-catching satellite, return man, and just sometimes in the backfield.

Is it not clear to Payton that Reggie’s body cannot take the kind of pounding he gets in the main RB + pass-catching satellite + return man role?

I hope he has learned something and uses Reggie a bit differently when he returns to the field. I would love to see that happen against the Bucs and have it jump-start the new-look Saints to their playoff run.