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Around SBN: Jeff Sullivan's MLB Trade Deadline Primer

Saints Mathematically Eliminated from Playoffs

I hate to ruin what is probably an already miserable Monday morning with that title above but it's true. With the win by Atlanta yesterday the Saints now have very little to play for these final two games of the year. In fact, with next years draft in mind, this is the time of year for some teams when losing games may actually be more beneficial to the future of their franchise as a whole.

I'm not saying the Saints should start throwing games. Especially with the winless Lions up next on the schedule but I will phrase it this way: I wouldn't be upset if they did. The difference between 9-7 and 7-9 could mean quite a few spots in the 2009 draft and that in turn could mean the difference between that shut down corner the defense so desparately needs and a bruising safety...that this defense so desperately needs. Okay, so I guess with so many areas that need improvement Mickey and Payton are sure to find someone that can help. Then again, with so few draft picks, maybe the Saints should try to get the most bang for their buck. 

What do you think? Would finishing with a winning record make you feel better? Or are you hoping for the Saints to stumble the rest of the way for the sake of next years team? 

Poll
Do you want to see the Saints lose out the season for better draft position?
Yes
37 votes
No
51 votes

88 votes | Poll has closed

2 recs  |  Comment 24 comments |

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It's the coaching

Drafting higher will do no good. The Saints need a defensive coach overhaul. They also need someone to balance out Sean Payton’s play-calling. And Reggie Bush needs to realize his role as a special teams/gadget player. HE IS NOT AN EVERY-DOWN BACK!
Sorry for yelling…just had to get that out.

by Nez on Dec 15, 2008 8:00 AM CST reply actions  

Payton's playcalling

is evidently one of the best.
With the injuries this year, we have come out, so far, with the most yards and highest scoring offense this year. Yes, he does make mistakes, but every coach does, and every team has plays that they wish they could get back.
If our DEFENSE was DECENT, decent, decent!!!, we would be 12-2 right now, if not better.
We are a decent defense from probably having a Superbowl already.

WHO DAT

by pukenbowl on Dec 15, 2008 10:33 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

rec'd it

I don’t think this is overstating it too much.

by stujo4 on Dec 15, 2008 10:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Payton's playcalling

is good, but not balanced…..and sometimes he becomes Mike Martz. Maybe he has finally come to his senses and realized that 1. you cannot win throwing 85% of the time and 2. you cannot win by designing almost all of your offense around Reggie Bush. Every team has injuries, so coaching comes into play here. We have the talent, but that doesn’t mean squat if the fundamentals of the game are not a big part of developing these players. Obviously, the defensive coaches haven’t figured this out, b/c it doesn’t matter who’s on the field-they all underachieve.

by Nez on Dec 15, 2008 8:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Not the Lions

I can’t stomach giving another winless team their first win. We have a long history of doing that, and that’s one tradition that should stop. Other than that, I say go in the tank for a better pick. 9-7 isn’t going to do anybody any good and might just give PayLoo a false sense of getting things turned around.

by SaintBevo on Dec 15, 2008 9:12 AM CST reply actions  

I'd rather see them win out

Come on guys, think of the shame that would surely come if we give the Lions their one and only win of the season. Hell no! We must win! The potential is there for a let-down game as I expect the Saints to go into Detroit Sunday with the mindset that this one will be an easy win, only to get their butts kicked. I hope that doesn’t happen. The Colts were almost guilty of doing just that yesterday. If we lose in Detroit, then it will be time to break out the paper bags. That, to me, would be even worse than missing the playoffs this year. The Lions are so bad this year that they deserve to go 0-16.

Then, Carolina comes to town. I want the Saints to play spoiler in that one. At least go out of the season with a win to build some momentum into next season. That would be a huge statement game against this year’s NFC South winner. Also, if Carolina wins in NY this weekend, they’ll have nothing left to play for because they’ll already have home-field advantage throughout the playoffs locked up. So, they may rest their starters against us. I’d very much like to see the Saints finish off their season by getting some sweet revenge for that rout they took in Carolina several weeks ago.

I would also like to see some improvement on last year’s 7-9 record. 8-8 would be better, but I’d rather see them go 9-7. Most years that would get us a wildcard birth, but not this year as the NFC is pretty formidable. I don’t think getting a draft pick earlier with a 7-9 record will help improve the team all that much. Most of the top-tier defensive backs don’t get drafted in the top ten anyway and there will be plenty of talented potential NFL stars still available if the Saints finish 9-7 as opposed to 7-9. Pay-loo have been able to find very talented players in the later rounds in the past. Carl Nicks is an example from last year’s draft and Marques Colston was a brilliant 7th round selection from the year before.

Let’s finish off the season with a winning record at least.

Go Saints!!!!

by satchmo26 on Dec 15, 2008 10:10 AM CST reply actions  

Then, Carolina comes to town. I want the Saints to play spoiler in that one.

It’s tradition. Look it up. Saints play their best when it’s too late to help themselves. Plus, how can we be the only NFC South team to lose a division game at home this year? There is some pride at stake.

by stujo4 on Dec 15, 2008 10:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Get the wins

and save some money on draft picks.
Also makes the picks that we traded worth less.

I like the “Pay-loo” nickname satchmo. It’s like Bragelina or Bennifer, except I can relate to it.

Anyway, a talented FS or OLB will be available with a 9-7 record. Hopefully someone who can come in and start. Then try to attain the other position in FA.

I don’t see Deuce, McKenzie, or Grant back with us next year, which frees up a lot of money for signings. These three players are in the top 4 salaries on our team.

Don’t want to see Deuce or MM go, but this is a business, and they are being paid starting RB and CB salaries which could be used more efficiently.

Just remember people, All is not lost, there’s always next year……

WHO DAT

by pukenbowl on Dec 15, 2008 10:29 AM CST reply actions  

I can't take credit for the "Pay-loo" nickname

I don’t know who around here first coined that term for Payton-Loomis, but it wasn’t me.

One more thing. As for the Saints secondary next year, remember we’ll get Tracy Porter back (a second round draft pick). Before the wrist injury, he was showing great ability and talent at CB and I expect he’ll be even better next year. It seems very unlikely that McKenzie will return. Randall Gay has done well, but has been somewhat injury prone. Usama Young is improving and Jason David…..well, he’s had some interceptions this year but also has given up some big pass plays. The big need is at safety. Kaesviharn must go and Harper needs to show some improvement in his 3rd year or he needs to be shown the door as well. The biggest problem to address is finding a new defensive coordinator and becoming a more physical and dominating defense, especially at the defensive end positions.

Go Saints!!!!

by satchmo26 on Dec 15, 2008 10:53 AM CST up reply actions  

very good summary

Our CB issue is due to injuries, not talent.
Even without MM, we have depth. I still believe in Usama, Porter, Gay, Torrence (sleeper).
I’m not one to buy the “jason david has turned the corner” bull shit.

WHO DAT

by pukenbowl on Dec 15, 2008 11:04 AM CST up reply actions  

The Chiefs had a really good receiver prospect a few years ago, can’t remember his name. Skinny kid, fast, great hands, but frail. I still remember him hitting the ground, it looked like every bone in his body was rattling. He got hurt in every game and didn’t last. Tracy Porter reminds me of him. I hope I’m wrong and I know he’s not that skinny, so maybe I just need to see more of him to get that out of my head. I think he can play, but I don’t know if he can last.

Somebody mentioned moving McKenzie to safety. Does that seem reasonable to any of you knowledgable guys? (I’m too slow to post. M-E just said it again.)

I was looking at the roster last night, planning the secondary. I’d bring McKenzie back even if he can’t start any more. Glenn is gone. Need Gay, Young and JD can stay. KK is gone. Need another corner and a safety for sure. Don’t know about that Torrence kid.

Satch, you mean Harper needs to show up in his 3rd full year, next year? He did play 5 games in 2006. I agree, he’s on the bubble.

I’m throwing this in:

Rotoworld.com:

Raiders CB Nnamdi Asomugha has switched agents to Tom Condon.
Beat writer Jerry McDonald suggests this is an indication that Asomugha is planning an exit strategy out of Oakland in 2009, but it’ll be hard for him to do. The Raiders are expected to place the franchise tag on Asomugha after the season. Condon will need to engineer a trade with a team willing to give up a lot. Al Davis isn’t going to let Asomugha go on the cheap.
Dec. 14 – 11:39 p.m. ET
Source: Oakland Tribune

by stujo4 on Dec 15, 2008 11:18 AM CST up reply actions  

Sort of

Yeah, I guess I meant Harper needs to show some improvement next season, but he still has two more games this season as well to prove his worth. I don’t want to come totally down on Harper. He has had some good games and some bad. I guess the recent loss in Chicago has been blamed on him to some extent for that pass interference call at the end. I guess I’m more of the mindset, as are many others, that the Saints defensive problems aren’t so much the fault of the players as it is the defensive coaches, coordinator, and the overall scheme. That’s where the real focus needs to be in the offseason.

Go Saints!!!!

by satchmo26 on Dec 15, 2008 12:05 PM CST up reply actions  

McKenzie might be the free safety we need

Seriously…the guy has skill and experience. It’s almost a tradition for good cornerbacks to finish their careers at safety, so if he comes back, why not try it out?

Three years of deteriorating results is enough. Replace Gary Gibbs!

by MtnExile on Dec 15, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions  

This isn't the NBA!

Don’t play to lose.

Oh, and the Saints are either going 9-7 or 7-9. If they lose to Detroit, then they’re going to be crushed by that loss and not come out strong against Carolina. If they beat Detroit, they’ll carry the momentum and feeling of playing a spoiler for Carolina. Of course, it helps if Carolina beats the Giants next week. Then Carolina will rest some of their starters in Week 17.

by hakimdropstheball on Dec 15, 2008 10:55 AM CST reply actions  

Well it's now time

to stand and shout that usual mantra that all Saints fans have screamed since 1967….
Y’all just wait till next year, we’ll be better then…..

by BigTMill on Dec 15, 2008 11:18 AM CST reply actions  

Wait...

for next year!
Superbowl baby!

wipes the tear out of his eye

Ok I am going back to try to get some feeling about going to Detroit for the game this weekend. For some strange reason I was all pumped up to go and now …

MT
Reward: Have you seen my Defensive Line? If so please contact the front office.

by MT_always on Dec 15, 2008 3:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Not to the lions. I don't really care about anyone else.

But, I’m scared they will create a tradition of losing. If they try really hard, they’ll probably still lose (they did a good job of that all season anyway) so I just don’t know what to think…

by xen-cuts on Dec 15, 2008 3:40 PM CST reply actions  

You play to WIN THE GAME - Herman Edwards

Just win, baby!! I’d much rather beat the lions and panthers, no matter what it does to the draft order. I’d rather be playing the panthers when they have something to play for and then knocking them down a peg. Let’s deny them homefield advantage…let’s win and win and win again.

That was a tough game to lose last Thursday, but I’ve mourned it enough. In my estimate, there’s plenty enough blame for losing that game to give the defense, offense, and coaching staff a healthy serving. None of them really showed that they deserved to win. It would be nice to say they gave their best effort, and it just wasn’t good enough, but they did not give their best effort – not even close.

Let’s game plan for Detroit and beat those guys!!

"We're one of the better 7-7 teams in the league..." Saints fan HansDat

by HansDat on Dec 15, 2008 5:25 PM CST reply actions  

one more thing, or maybe 2 or 3 more...

Saintsational – nice post on the Hive. Thanks for the link to it. If you blog for both sports, you might become amphibious, or is that ambidextrous, or ambiguous, maybe?

AND, in 1989 we were 6-7 and eliminated from the playoffs, and behind John Fourcade we won 3 in a row to end the year, and they were three of the most entertaining wins I can remember. First, we beat the Bills in the snow at Rich Stadium, on a Morten Andersen FG, 22-19, (AWESOME!), then we tripped up the Eagles 30-20 on MNF (I was home from my first semester @ college and went to this game – it was a great atmosphere and we stuffed the eagles like a Thanksgiving turkey – Frank Warren sacked Rockin Randall for a safety and Buford Jordan scored one of our 2 4th Q TDs to give us the win), and then we spanked the Dolts 41-6 on Christmas Eve.

My point is, we were eliminated from playoff contention, but they played with heart, didn’t give up, and we WON, and it was fun. Since you play to win the game, that’s what I want to see, and what I enjoy most. Next year will sort itself out….next year. It’s still 2008 on my calendar.

Go Saints!! Here’s hoping I get to change my sig file next week to read “We’re one of the better 8-7 teams in the league…”

"We're one of the better 7-7 teams in the league..." Saints fan HansDat

by HansDat on Dec 15, 2008 5:39 PM CST reply actions  

Ok since I don't follow

College ball, who should we be looking to draft? Obviously DB’s but got any names I can start looking at?

by BigTMill on Dec 15, 2008 9:31 PM CST reply actions  

win the two remaining games

there is no other option.

Football is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom.
DANNY BLANCHFLOWER

by RogerMilla on Dec 16, 2008 6:31 AM CST reply actions  

LOOSE!!!!!!......

I know we need a DC but we also aren’t working with all of our picks for next years draft. Loosing out is not glorifying but it could be the smartest scenerio to get in better position to maybe get a defensive pick that we need so badley!!! Just my opinion.

by dmcgoey on Dec 16, 2008 8:35 AM CST reply actions  

5 losses by 5 points or less, I think that says most of it

Looks like the Seahawks could possibly play you guys next year so see you then!!

Sad the Saints couldn’t make it because this is a good team, just needs a few more parts…..and at the same time get rid of guys like Kaeshviharn and David.

Seattle, the world's worst sports city.

by SSreporters on Dec 16, 2008 10:13 AM CST reply actions  

It doesn't make that much difference

between 7-9 and 9-7. Right now there are 2 6 win teams (San Diego & buffalo); neither looks like they’ll be favored in either of their games. (Sd v TB & Den; Buff v. Den & NE). There are 3 5 win teams: San Fran, Green Bay, & Jacksonville. Even if SF & GB win out, we’ll have wins over them.

Now there are 3 7-7 teams (including Washington, who beat us) and 4 8 win teams (Philly with a tie), then a smorgasboard of 9 win teams. Most of those teams, if you look at the schedule, will probably win one more game.

So while losing out would assure us a lower pick, we’d probably be losing out too much. I’d rather have the momentum and the wins and the pride then a slightly better draft pick.

Plus, I’m still hoping for Brees to magically comeback to beat Marino’s record.

I'm proud of my damn strong football team. Have a great day!

by Mikethetiger on Dec 17, 2008 12:46 AM CST reply actions  

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