I’ve more or less come around to your way of thinking this year. Last year I was pissed at Bush. He looked like he had regressed to me. I remember talking to a friend of mine after the 2007 season and he called Bush a bust. My reply was “I wouldn’t go that far, but this is a huge offseason for him. He must re-examine what he’s doing and rededicate himself to being an NFL back.”

I think that’s exactly what he did. From the beginning of the season he looked like he was starting to figure out what he was supposed to do. There has been a LOT less dancing around in the backfield, more of a willingness to take a 1 or 2 yard gain if that’s all that’s there (And with Brown and Stinchcomb blocking, that happens a lot). Bush is always going to have some negative plays. He’s always going to have a couple of punt returns where you’re saying – what the F are you doing? Those plays come with the territory with a player like Bush. You have endure some of those to get the spectacular plays. He was one of the best players on the fiield in that first Tampa game. He looked great before getting hurt in the Carolina game, and he would’ve single-handedly won the Vikings game for us if refs could see facemask penalties and/or Grammatica could make a kick.

I always compare him in my mind to Barry Sanders – not in the type of back he is, but in what you have to put up with to get the full benefit of his talent. I don’t know how many of you are old enough to have seen Sanders in his prime, but he could make some of the dumbest most ridiculous decisions – doubling and tripling back and losing 10 yards. On the next play, however he could make the most unbelieveable plays, literally making guys fall over themselves (There was a play in the playoffs against Dallas where I swear Ken Norton just collapsed when Sanders juked him in the open field). Bush is a little like that. We’ve all seen him do both. I hope we stick with him and get to see more of that good stuff.

I thought of Barry and its so true. Not saying he’s there yet, but when you have no line and you’re a fast juke back more than a power back…I’m still young (pre 30’s) but I remember Barry Sanders still the best back ever to me. That’s Bush’s style. Yup, he’s gonna lose 5 yards but if we keep feeding him the ball. BAAM! But how many games have we seen him get 20 carries. Forget all the he can’t do it crap. He can do it, he doesn’t have to do it all up the gut though.

I cant wait to hit 30 I consider it the prime of your life…

I think the analysis to Sanders is a good one. Having a back like Sanders is a great recipe for NFL highlight films, play of the week footage, big plays, hall of fame accolades etc. etc but not to championships and that’s a big reason why Sanders never went to a superbowl. John Riggins,on the other hand, went to more than one. I don’t want a dancer or a finesse back, maybe it would work with some other team but not this one- it is not what we need. . I am sorry, you are entitled to your opinions and you have put them forth skillfully. But, when there is contact, Regggie goes down easier than any back i have ever seen in the NFL and this is a big boys league. You can blame Stinchcomb and Brown and whoever, but I see A. Peterson breaking tackles and turning losses into gains, I see Brandon Jacobs do it, Westbrook, Gore, and I see Pierre Thomas do it. I see Deuce carry the pack and we have seen him break tackles and carry the pack over the years. Reggie Doesn’t. I see Reggie Dance and I am surprised you guys don’t. Sometimes he dances his way to a gain and sometimes to a loss. And in the beginning of the season maybe there was a little less dancing. But, he is a dancer and built for nothing else. He doesn’t break tackles and an NFL bacl has to do that if they want to be a feature back.

you’re entitled to your opinion its all good

he doesn’t break tackles, he doesn’t move the pile is probably what you mean. Or bulldoze over someone. I agree. But I wouldn’t say Sanders didn’t win a Superbowl merely because of his running style. I think it had to do with more of the fact he never really had a HOF QB. And the jury is still out on PT to put him along that bunch. I know you love him like I love Reggie but hey. But thanks for the response

and I’ll say it again. Bushe’s issues are his coaches. My opinion is that it’s when he gets the ball as much as it’s about how many times he gets it. Payton has such a mad scientist approach to his play calling that he puts players health in jeopardy, creates takeaways for defenses etc etc. Frankly if he were a college coach he would have teams that scored 60 and 70 points regularly. But this is the NFL and you have to utilize players correctly and Bush has not been, ’cause no doubt he is a star and a pro-bowl player if used correctly.
And I was always saying Barry Sanders was so much better then Emmit Smith, he just had NO O line, while Emmit had big bull dozers up front.

Ive seen Bush move a pile, cant recall the game but I saw him do it once.

Ive seen PT move a pile, hell ive seen him lost in the a pile and then some saint running down the field on the other side of the pile and im like no way is that PT he was toast. but it is.

Ive seen Duece pick up the pile and say hey guys I need 5 more yards you all just jump on my back till i get there ok.

I still like Bush. I have a bigger mancrush on PT, and well if Duece said hello to me I might just get weak at the knees.

what do all 3 backs have in common? They get no rhythm.

During so many games I’ll be watching and looking at the ticker and see “A. Peterson 10 carries 33 yards”. By the end of the third quarter what do I see. 21 carries for 103 yards. Which told me they kept running him and he finally broke for a big one.

Might not even be a big one.. picture instead a brick wall ( the Defense) a mallet ( the RB ) One hit on the wall.. nadda. Two hits on the wall.. nadda. 20 hits on the wall? your back can get 5+ yards before the Defense even thinks about hitting him.

Someone with the time and the tools look at any of dueces best years. look at his YPC per each quarter of those years. Do that with any ‘Great’ back. I bet they have more 2nd half then 1st half by far. More 4th quarter then 1-3 combined.

But since this is about Bush… Hes not bad but him and a another back together? Thats when hes magic.

Brees Bush PT / Duece in the back. Colsten and umm pick any other of our WR. Shockey?
Their defense is like
“Where is the ball going?”
“do we dare double someone?”
“oh crap we let x go free and they got another first down / TD”

This isn’t really about Bush; it’s about the best way to use him. You’re right when you say that defenses base their schemes against Bush. Apparently, they do a pretty good job of it, since they’ve been largely successful in shutting him down when he’s used as a single back. Bush has only 5 touchdowns this season from scrimmage; Pierre Thomas has 7. We’re 3-5 with Bush, and 3-1 without him. Obviously, for whatever reason, defenses are less successful against the Saints when we use a weapons package that doesn’t include Bush.

There may be any number of reasons why this is the case, and they may all absolve Bush of direct responsibility; but the bottom line is this: NFL teams do a better job against the Saints’ offense when it is deprived of a viable rushing attack—and relying upon Bush deprives us of a rushing attack. Whether it’s because Bush is no good or because he’s so good that defenses scheme to stop him at all costs makes no difference: we are a better team when we can rush (and we can rush) than when we can’t.

But frankly, I remain convinced that our rushing game will work better, even if teams concentrate on stopping it above all other considerations, with Pierre Thomas in the backfield. Having watched Reggie for the better part of three seasons, and Pierre Thomas for two, and having watched the NFL for 40 years and seen a lot of running backs in that time, I’m of the opinion that Pierre is simply a better rusher than Reggie. And I don’t see that changing. Reggie’s style has always been based on being the fastest guy on the field, so fast in fact that he could be in the secondary before the defense could react. But now that he’s reached the pros, he’s playing against defenders who are significantly faster, better disciplined, and more aggressive than anything he encountered in college or high school. Yards don’t come easily at this level, as he’s finding out. You have to be willing to run over people rather than around them, to take the fight to them rather than avoiding contact. I look at Pierre and Reggie, and what I see is the difference between will and wish.

Now: does that mean I’m down on Reggie? Not really. He’s a weapon; and no weapon is the right choice under all circumstances. Like a lot of others on this blog, it makes me drool thinking how good the Saints could be if Payton would sit one of his receivers in order to put either Deuce or Pierre in the backfield with Reggie, rather than instead of him. In fact, I think that whenever Reggie comes on the field, it should be to replace a receiver, rather than a running back. That’s because he can function as a receiver: he has the speed and the elusiveness. He doesn’t have the power, or the pugnacity, to succeed as a battering ram. Deuce does. Pierre (apparently) does. We need one of them in at all times, or no one will take our rushing game seriously.

But when the offensive package consists of Colston and Moore outside, Shockey at tight end, and Deuce and Reggie in the backfield…who in the world would you key on? The safety comes up and Reggie goes in motion; if the safety goes back, Deuce plows through the middle of the line. If the safety stays up, Reggie blows past the linebacker into the open spot vacated by the cornerback covering Colston deep. If the safety goes after Reggie, Shockey is wide open.

Remember Reggie in the NFC championship taunting Urlacher? Imagine that, but minus the taunting, and every week. Two questions: how do you defend something like that? And why don’t we do it more often?

I think that whenever Reggie comes on the field, it should be to replace a receiver, rather than a running back.

Totally agree. More of this, rather than less. But still mix it up.

Remember Reggie in the NFC championship taunting Urlacher?

I’m actually building a shrine to it.

the more I read and hear and the more I think about it. I don’t think it’s that farfetched that the Saints might possibly trade him. Seriously.

lol

i’m really serious about reggie not breaking tackles- let’s see if it happens the next 4 games. if i am wrong i will admit it. and let’s not blame it on reggie being banged up- he’s always banged up and so is evreyone else from westbrook to barber, from addai to gore.

and a big reason sanders never got to the superbowl, and i do admit he is a hall of fame rb, was that he was a back you could not rely on for steady progress and methodical first downs. that’s how carolina got to the superbowl, giants back in the 90’s, atlanta, tampa, etc.

M-E and MT mixed up

Where did all this Reggie needs or can’t run between the tackles stuff come from anyway? He wasn’t that kind of back, he didn’t do that USC, he had Lendale White for that. Why force the issue ,this is the topic of last yr. the guy needs to be in the slot, trip formation,screens etc, but not off tackle runs. SP is a little stubborn and he catches a lot of heat, rightley so, but Reggie can’t just morph into something we want him to be, he’s gotta be what he is. themetryman…who-dat

all I know is I can’t wait for tomorrow.

I think in the NFL, since linebackers (and everyone else) is so fast and the defenses are so good and can predict tendencies, to have a feature player or feature running back and basically telegraph to the defense that he is not running between the tackles cuts down so drastically what the defense has to plan for, that it gives the defense a great edge. If they know everytime Reggie is in the backfield they don’t have to worry about between the tackles, then(even if Reggie is in the slot) he is only going to need to be acccounted for in the flats and over the middle for pass plays. Advantage defense. Compare to Deuce in his prime years. He could catcha and was a serioius threat in the flats and in a screen pas, but he also was serious between the tackles and then that running strategy between the tackles opened up the play action pass. Without the between the tackes stuff, no play action.

he doesn’t even get it up the middle enough. Last year he averaged 4.4 ypc up the middle. If you look at some of his highlights USC and Saints he has a lot of between the tackle runs, actually. Is a he a bruiser, nope but he bursting through there and doing his thing. Wasn’t his run last week “between the tackles”? I maintain my case that he doesn’t get the ball enough for us to say he’s not this or that…all I know is he’s the best player on the field—point blank.

best player on the field was a non-factor last night.

what was it 5 carries for 30 yards thats 6ypc. Granted he sprained his knee but how bad could it have been since he returned a punt…you’re right though, best player on the field was bench!!! I really think he’s too much for Payton. He’s not a Primadonna but he’s got too much talent to deal with and Payton’s not equipped enough in his cognitive facilities to use him like he should. I’m done man. I’m sick to my stomach with what happened last night. I’m usually a Payton apologist—because he is a whiz as far as the passing game goes, but when it comes to crucial coaching decisions he lacks discipline.

Tay,

i know you think I hate Reggie, but I don’t. I just see this dilemma which seems quite significant. We have heard Reggie compared to Dave Megget and Eric Metcalf, great players, who were explosive, a threar to break it every down, and players you like to have on your team. They can catch, return punts, run the ball outside, maybe run the ball inside a little, but not really their strength. They really weren’t known for their blocking abilities. Then you hear Regie compared to Brian Westbrook. Westbrook can and has done all the things those other guys have done, and more- he can pound it up the middle,he’s terriffic 3 and 1 4th and 1, 3rd and goal, 4th and goal. etc etc. My problem is Reggie seems more like Megget than Westbrook and Payton ruined a lot of the season trying to remake him into Westbrook. The other thing is that, although Reggie is a great asset and can do great things, usually the big money goes to the everydown RBs, QBs, Wideouts and CBs, so if you have one of your highest paid players as your “slot back or utility man or "out in space” guy, whatever you call him, it may hurt your ability to afford an elite everydown back or CB in their prime (especially when we’ve way overpaid for two DE’s) Hey can we dump those two DE’s and not take a beating financially? Maybe we would do better rotating McCray,Charleston and Ninkovich and treying to pick up a good free-agent DE ( and we have another DE that will come back from IR also, right?)

were very similar at this point in their careers. Once Westbrook put on some weight he started killing. I don’t even think he got his frist 1000 yard season until his thrid or fourth season. I understand where you’re coming from phil but I don’t feel like Payton is trying to use Reggie like Westbrook, westbrook gets way more carries, but who knows. I’m just as frustrated as the next man.

Up until about 1 minute ago I laughed at all “we should trade him” comments. I really really want to like Reggie Bush and what he can bring.

But. If we could trade Reggie for a defense…

Our offense rocks along with or without him. Maybe its better without him, maybe better with him.
Our defense rocks … err nope cant even complete that.

So, If we traded him for a draft pick and a starting shutdown corner? or a bunch of picks? or a LB and picks, or a S and picks.

See where I am going?
Do we have anyone else that we can trade and improve on by doing so?

Tay, there is a big difference between Reggie’s first 3 years and Westbrooks and I would argue that Reggie is nowhere near where Westbrook was his first three years. Westbrook averaged 4.2 yards per carry his first year, his second was 5.2 and his 3rd was 4.6. His pass reception average for his first 3 years were 9.6 yards per reception, 9.0 2nd year and 9.6 third year.. Reggie’s stats pale in comparison (yards per carry 1st year = 3.6, then 3.7 his 2nd and this year 3.8. Reggie is a career avg rception of 7.5 and Westbrook is 9.0

Westbrook had almost 1000 yards all-purpose his second season and 1500 his third, but it was his rushing average which was so critical. You have to have a good avg (above 4.0) to be an every down back otherwise you hurt your offense. I am not denying that Reggie is a good pass receiver and has value there, but he is not an every down running back on a team that desperately needs one. We have receivers gushing out the wazoo- we can’t even keep Patten on the active roster and Meachem doesn’t get playing time and then there is Arrington. We need an every down back like a DeAngelo Williams or an Earnest Graham or Brandon Jacobs, Westbrook, Gore,
Michaelm Turner, Portis, etc etc. I would be willing to give PT a shot, I think he is in a class with those others
The significance of these stats is that Westbrook’s are All-Pro level. Reggie’s running stats, quite honestly, purely from a statistical perspective, are not stats that most players in the NFL would earn a starting position with. If you look at RB’sin the league this year and past years, whether you are talking about Frank Gore or Tiki Barber, or De Angelo Williams, Curtis Martin, Brandon Jacobs, etc etc , the running stats that Reggie is putting up are mediocre.

but lets look at carries…what back is going to be solid while averaging under 12 carries a game. This year he’s averaging 10. And his stats are a little bit more similar to Marshall Faulk’s except his first year. Another thing, I know he’s stellar but you put a RB at punt returner and he’s going to get hurt consistently. Look at Westbrook. And I have to disagree, Reggie is still worth money, trust me. You telling me these coaches that are scheming against him aren’t interested if he’s available? He’s actually only had one surgery. The last one. Last year he was hurt but didn’t have surgery on it. Everyone keeps saying he isn’t an everydown back. He’s only had 20 carries or more twice in his career!!! And he popped the Giants for 126 on one of them. He hasn’t really had his chance guys. In Payton’s eyes, a screen or a dump-off is like a run. See comments like these make it bad for my Madden opponents because I just take Reggie and run up and down the field, venting my frustrations. Can someone please put up Reggie’s carries in his first three years versus a few of the backs mentioned in Philinwoodkillreggieifhecould’s post. He’s not getting half of that. So he gets hurt after having a solid game against Seattle last year, since then he hasn’t really gotten the typical carries. That’s my argument. give him 20 carries for 3 games straight I bet he kills.

I don’t think he hits the whole running fast enough. when he does, he does well. really, do you have any games on DVR. watch him when he makes positive yardage, there is no studder stepping in the backfield. and then the argument comes up, well the o-line isn’t blocking. watch Pierre get positive yardage when the d-line is all up in our backfield. when reggie sees someone in the backfield he stops, when PT sees them, he goes harder. if Reggie would just go harder through the middle, he would get more one v one against linebackers. that’s where he can play all the dance break your ankle bending over backward stuff that I LOVE to watch and have on my team. he’s just gotta get there.

Perhaps a good running backs coach could be of help.

And behemoths. Furry ones.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/93656-trading-reggie-bush-could-be-best-for-him-and-the-new-orleans-saints

that’s an alternative but will it happen?

but I’ll make my penance and say my hailmary’s and hope for the best. This off-season is gonna be brutally long. Does anybody else feel like the wait from January until the season starts is excruciatingly long? I play basketball better than I do any other sport but there’s nothing like watching football—nothing!

Stujo, I don’t know how you could not consider Westbrook an everydown back. He CARRIES the Eagles. He is there only real offensive star besides McNabb who has consistency issues. It’s Westbrook’s team- has been for several years. This team could lose McNabb and still make the playoffs- but not without Westbrook. estbrook has had a few injuries, but the whole friggin offense gos thru him.

westbrook has averaged about 14 games per season for 7 seasons AND that doesn’t include playoff games which actually puts him really close to 16 or above games per season. He clearly has been the workhorse of that team for almost all of those years. Even without the playoff games, that’s not too shabby and no reason to classify him other than one of the elite every down backs in the league. If Westbrook is not the “Every down” back on the Eagles, then could someone please give me the name of the player who is?

I am not an Eagles fan- but ask them. They are a tough crowd and give no one credit unless it is over-earned- no charity there. They love, respect and worship him. I watch the Eagles every week because they are on locally. I consider myself the Anti- Eagle- I root against them every week and I hate them, but I know them like the back of my hand. I envy their defense and the fact that they have Westbrook who, more than any back in the NFL, can and has done it all. I don’t know much about fantasy, that’s not real football. Westbrook has had the best last 7 seasons as far as being valuable to his team, than any other back in the league. His injuries have been minor. A game here, a game there. I think it’s more of resting him periodically so he can be his best in Dec and January. If his rushing yards are low on certain weeks, it is because Andy Reid has the Payton virus- he is pass happy. But, when Westbrook doesn’t get the rushes, he gets the passes (347 receptions for 3108 yards in the last 5 seasons!!) That’s impressive- and that doesn’t include playoffs- unlike the Saints backs, the Eagles running backs get to play in the playoffs a lot and he is their go to gouy in the regular season and the playoffs.

I personally like Westbrook and McNabb but I hate their fans. Who needs anti-Eeagle fans when you have Philly fans. I’d hate to play for any of the city’s teams. “The City of Brotherly Love” pfftt!

my bad, i have a man crush…

if I was a girl we’d be kissing cousins—lol