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Pierre Thomas Gets "No Respect"


"Oh, I tell ya', I get no respect. My wife asked me how I felt about the Saints this season. I told her I'm a big Gay fan and I would take Pierre Thomas over Bush any day. She told me, 'All these years, I should've listened to your mother.'"

 

 

Let me preface this entire post by saying I am happy to even be having this argument. This is a good problem for a football team to have.

 

One of the huge question marks going into this season (it's so close now!) is the Saints running game, more specifically, which players should play, how much they should play and in what manner should they be used.

 

There are a lot of people out there in Who Dat Nation who think PT Bruiser should become the teams new feature back. These people often point to his week 17 performance last season against Chicago. Or his impressive pre-season performances last year and now this year. These people find themselves asking what more does Pierre have to do. How can he prove himself anymore? The other side of the argument presents the fact that he's never played in a meaningful game and that all of his stats may be somewhat "inflated."  Like the famed comedian Rodney Dangerfield, poor Pierre Thomas just can't get any respect.

 

Right here in one of very own CSC FanPosts, we have two readers (hi guys) playing out your incredibly stereotypical PT argument that Saints fans around the globe have every single day. Their names have been changed to protect their identities.

 

Jim: That’s an average of 8.2 yards per carry against the Chiefs

Bob: The Chefs’ (sic) defense is much worse than the Saints’. Bad. Nothing to brag about here, let’s move on.

Jim: He followed that up by gaining a solid 4.8 yards per carry for 2007

Bob: He had 52 carries. FOR THE WHOLE YEAR!

Jim: including 5.25 yards per carry, for 105 yards, in his only start.

Bob: … and the Saints STILL LOST THE GAME. Weren’t those a lot of junk yards he got, after the game was essentially decided and the Bears put the second string in, to save their starters for the playoffs? Which brings us to…

Jim: This year, he hit 9.2 against Cincinnati. He’s proven, every time he’s been given a chance, that he is a legit, starter-quality NFL rusher.

Bob: The Bengals’ D sucks!!! It’s a preseason game!!! It means nothing!!! I once saw a back named Brown (I think) who really tore it up for the Chiefs in a preaseason game, and I mean he ran over and around everybody. I thought Man, this kid is good. He was 4th string or something and they’ve since cut him. Preseason!! Means nothing!!!

 

For the record, I agree with Jim, but both sides bring up totally valid points and I can see where they each are coming from. At this point we are stuck in some metaphysical football world where not enough evidence yet exists to either prove or disprove the theory. Like the existence of God.

We're looking at this the wrong way. I propose we take a step back, look at it from another angle and re-approach the issue. Because all of Pierre's performances have all come in games with questionable meaning, his fairly impressive accomplishments to date are all suspect. Instead of using those stats and asking what more does Pierre have to do the real question we need to be asking is this: What has Pierre Thomas done to not deserve more touches?

Tell me what you have seen in Pierre Thomas' game that makes you think he can't play at a high level in the NFL. I am putting the onus on you. Thomas is innocent until proven guilty. It's up to you to give me a reason why he shouldn't be out on the field. Prove to me beyond a reasonable doubt that Pierre Thomas is not ready for this league. Those fans who are in favor of Pierre Thomas at least have stats on their side. Opponents have nothing but naysay. The only argument made against Thomas is that his amazing numbers thus far maybe aren't really that amazing. They're an illusion and they're not a valid measure. That's not an argument, that's just merely saying my argument is wrong. Just consider his impressive pre-season and week 17 stats as an extra bonus.

So what is his game lacking? Lay some numbers on me. Does he have a fumbling problem? Nope. His fumble against Cincinnati last week was, guess what, his first one in the league. See for yourself.  Not a good blocker? Pierre Thomas single handedly kept first round draft pick Keith Rivers off Mark Brunell in last weeks game. He hasn't had a good game every time out? Nobody is perfect. He's young and inexperienced? There is no better way to accelerate the learning curve then by putting him out there in real game situations. Let's go back to those "inflated" stats he's put up in pre-season and week 17. If those numbers don't qualify as impressive to you, then what would? Should he have run and caught for over 200 yards each instead of only 100+ against Chicago? Would 20 yards per carry instead of 9.2 against Cincinnati last week be enough for you to change your mind? You might feel that Pierre should just ride the bench and soak up everything he can learn until he's needed. I don't agree with that. We're only getting older my friend. A football players career is a ticking clock with a limited shelf life, particularly a running backs. Even if seeing minimum action early in his career means he will be able to prolong it, Pierre is still wearing down his body at least slightly, even if its not in games. Every year he is under utilized equals less production the Saints will get out of him when they actually want it.

The reality of the situation is he won't start. He is behind two well qualified, big name players in Deuce McAllister and Reggie Bush who, and here is the important part, make a lot more money than Pierre. Had Pierre been a first or second round pick and played the way he has been, he most certainly would be given more regular season playing time. Though I don't consider Thomas a replacement for Reggie as much as I do for Deuce, we paid Bush millions of dollars before he ever stepped a foot on the football field. Because of that, here we are waiting to see if Reggie will step up his game while Pierre Thomas is actually doing it. It's like being stranded in the desert trying to get water from a rock when there's an Oasis right over the next dune. I get that and I have accepted it. We all should. It may not be completely fair but that's the way it is. If Deuce's health turns out to be a much larger concern or if he just doesn't have that spark anymore, and of course I would never wish that upon him, I truly hope that Sean Payton has the gumption to know when to throw in the towel and usher in the next generation of Saints football. From all the trades, acquisitions and sound bites we have seen and heard from this team and its front office so far this offseason and pre-season, it appears they are making one big push, taking a serious stab at getting to Tampa in February, and doing whatever it takes to make it happen. Vilma. Shockey. Ellis. Gay. All are examples of a franchise ready to make a move. The running game should be treated no differently. There is one more guy waiting to add his name to that list. Thomas.

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PREACH!

I love it. Exactly where I stand. What makes it even tougher is that Stecker does a very solid job when he is thrown in as well. I’m really worried that he is going to leave us when he gets a chance.

by asaint on Aug 27, 2008 7:07 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Damn

You’re in love…

I’d like to see a lot more of Thomas too. Truthfully, I think Deuce’s days are numbered, and the number isn’t very high. And as much as I like to read about Bush and Kim, I’ve never been consistently impressed by him in the NFL (though, of course, a lot of that is the fault of the coaching staff not using him properly) Unfortunately, if we didn’t see that much of Thomas last season when Deuce was out, it probably won’t happen this year. Which is stupid.

by jjwest11 on Aug 27, 2008 7:18 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Bush wasn't the only one misused last year

You’re right about the mistake the coaching staff made: trying to use Reggie Bush as a substitute for Deuce. Reggie should have continued in his Reggie role, and Pierre Thomas sent in as the featured back.

Hopefully, after last year’s 3.7 debacle, the coaches realize that Reggie is useful only in the proper role, and they should stick to using him as they did in 2006. With Deuce coming off injury, and with a great deal of uncertainty about his durability, this is the perfect time to give Pierre more playing time. It would prolong Deuce’s time in New Orleans, and give Pierre—finally—the chance at the big stage that he’s earned.

A few more unrelated points on this: first, running back is the easiest position to transition to in the pros. The Saints have had two Rookie of the Year running backs, and last year’s performance by Adrian Peterson proves conclusively that young, inexperienced rushers can still excel far more easily than quarterbacks or cornerbacks or linebackers.

Second, we have an amazing example of the low-ranking player coming out of nowhere and becoming an instant star: Marques Colston. Now, Colston’s case, of course, doesn’t prove that Thomas will be a star; but it at least demonstrates that it’s not at all a far-fetched expectation. Colston made the first team because of his ability; Payton has a reputation for playing whoever has earned the right to play…which is what puzzles me in Thomas’ case. I wonder what else there might be there that we’re not privy to.

Third, a possible explanation: Payton also has the reputation of protecting the character of his locker room (thus the exile of Joe Horn). By all accounts, the Saints are an amazingly tight bunch of guys. Perhaps he feels that “demoting” either Reggie or Deuce will have an effect on morale that will be worse than whatever advantage Thomas can bring on the field. That’s all I can come up with, at any rate.

by MtnExile on Aug 27, 2008 7:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

MtnExile...

…brings up a good point.
Coach has made a point of having a locker room that is TEAM first and maybe emotion is playing more in this then we can see.
On the flip side of that, a TEAM first … should see that PT is just doing it all when asked to and it might be best for the team to give him more touches.

Oh, I might not be JIM, but we are on the same side of the PT camp :)

The link to his stats is a must see for anyone that doesn’t think this kid has something to add to a team.

MT

by MT_always on Aug 27, 2008 8:04 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think PT will be great in this offense, and i do want him to get more carries, but I think Deuce should still start. Deuce has so much more experience, and should start games, but we can still give PT a good bit of playing time to spell Deuce. And I’m not using Reggie in this b/c Reggie isn’t a running back … he’s just Reggie and can break a play whenever.

by ctalati32 on Aug 27, 2008 8:49 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

"Bob" just likes to argue

PT is a nice problem to have. A problem that doesn’t need to be solved right away. We can let this one simmer a while.

Tell me what you have seen in Pierre Thomas’ game that makes you think he can’t play at a high level in the NFL.

I see Bush and Deuce in front of him, taking all his touches. That’s all. PT will wait his turn.

by stujo4 on Aug 27, 2008 9:04 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Patience, guys

Here is what will happen, in my opinion…

Payton, Loomis, Benson, the entire Saints Organization, and all of Who Dat Nation owe it to Deuce to give him one more chance to start. That is the bottom line, and I think that is what’s happening now. Here’s hoping he will succeed, rush for 1000/10 td’s.

If that does not happen, PT will be the man, and Reggie will be used like he was on ’06 (I hope that happens regardless of who is the starter)

Be it this year or next, PT will be the starter. It’s the only thing that makes damn sense!

by Hollywoo! on Aug 27, 2008 9:50 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

hmm...i don't know about him being the feature back...

Even if Deuce goes out, Reggie is going to get more carries and unless he just sucks PT will be his reliever. The fact is, he hasn’t done anything to impress me. I’m not impressed by what he did in Chicago or the preseason. People keep saying Reggie isn’t this and Reggie isn’t that based on a season where he played 2/3 of the games and he had ligament damage through half of them. Not to mention Payton screwed it up last year and didn’t use Reggie right. No one is focusing on Thomas and with a bad run blocking line, Reggie can’t do what an LT or AP do when they are focused on—they have lines to counter that. So this is the year we will decide what Reggie will be. No preconcieved notions based on incomplete evidence (i.e. Reggie can’t run through the tackles, he isn’t an everydown back…) We don’t know what he can become, players do grow ya know. What’s funny is he avg’s more yards “between the tackles” than to the outside. And he’s ripped—I think he can handle it. Don’t forget he had a great game against Seattle last year—-also the same game he tweaked his knee. I’m putting my money exactly where the Saints have put it. On Reggie Bush!!!

by TAYDIGGA on Aug 27, 2008 2:38 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

To clarify...

I meant I don’t think PT will be the feature back and I’m not overly impressed…sure he looks like he has potential, but let’s see what he does with what he gets with the Bucs or Washington etc.,

by TAYDIGGA on Aug 27, 2008 3:32 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

notice the operative word "overly impressed"

I’m just not jumping the bandwagon yet, that’s all…but it is what it is, you like PT, I’m sticking with RB. Let’s see what happens.

by TAYDIGGA on Aug 27, 2008 4:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Plus I think Deuce is done...

I don’t see him getting over 600 yards rushing this season with two bad knees. Call me half empty but the psychological factor+guys aiming for his knees is hard to recoup from and regain dominance especially at 29 if he was 29 with no probs, obviously, but he’s been in and out so he’s an old 29. So Thomas will get more than a 2-3 touches.

by TAYDIGGA on Aug 27, 2008 4:20 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe not done yet

There’s no reason to believe one way or the other right now, but I have a feeling Deuce will be fine. Surgery has made great strides even since his first injury, so I see him going for another five or six years—hopefully right here. If he can retire with over 10,000 yards that would be great. If he can retire with over 12,000, and a couple of rings, we’re talking Hall of Fame. And that would be stupendous.

But you may be right about the 600 yards this year. If so, though, it will be because someone else was gaining the extra yards. Who? Bush? He couldn’t do it last year, and everyone agrees he was not used in the right way. Stecker? I like Stecker, but only as a reliable change of pace. Thomas is our only real option, and based on his performance he is just that: a real option.

Well, one thing’s for sure: it’s going to be a really interesting season. Beat down the Panthers and the Bucs twice, and victory is ours!

by MtnExile on Aug 27, 2008 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is my kind of thread

I don’t know what the knuckle heads are waiting on. PT deserves more, much more (IMO of course). The guy not only has the stat’s on his side, but he is just a play maker. It seems like every time the ball is in his hands, he makes something happen. You can see the hunger in his eyes.
 I would love to see him split more time with Deuce, not only to see the young man get more playing time, but to give Deuce a much deserved break. Deuce is the Man, there’s no doubting that, But I would hate to see him get run in the ground when you have 2 quality RB’s in Stecker and PT.

It's better to die like a lion, than to live like a pussy

by #23fan on Aug 27, 2008 7:10 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Lol

I’d be super impressed if Deuce did that too! I can’t wait to see what this season brings. I’ll put $$$ on Bush becoming the monster he is. I’m going to stay conservative just for the sake of maintaining any respect I might have and predict he’s a 800/800 runner/receiver.

by TAYDIGGA on Aug 27, 2008 11:01 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Nope...

sure isn’t!!!

by TAYDIGGA on Aug 28, 2008 8:14 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

“Tell me what you have seen in Pierre Thomas’ game that makes you think he can’t play at a high level in the NFL. I am putting the onus on you. Thomas is innocent until proven guilty. It’s up to you to give me a reason why he shouldn’t be out on the field. Prove to me beyond a reasonable doubt that Pierre Thomas is not ready for this league.”

This is the most ridiculous argument I’ve ever heard. By this logic, the Saints should fly me out to camp; I’ve yet to let the team down. Someone here should prove that I shouldn’t be out there on the field. I’m innocent until proven guilty.

by Theengine on Aug 28, 2008 12:10 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Dave just got a little carried away there, that's all

He wanted a reason why PT shouldn’t start. What’s WRONG with him, in other words. I answered, above.

by stujo4 on Aug 28, 2008 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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