I recd it because I enjoy reading well thought out concepts. Not sure if I agree somewhat or entirely, but I certainly think it has a lot of merit. Clearly it is too early to give up on Reggie. In January, we will have a better idea of where Reggie stands. Didn’t vote because 1) want to see how this season plays out- we don’t need to do anything now
2) couldn’t decide between the top two choices- assuming the decision would come after this season. Trading him would depend on what you get- every player has his price.

We can only hope Payton is getting closer. I think you might be right about Reggie being more effective because of our newly found run game.

People are too criticat of Bush. He came into the league with unrealistic expectations and because he hasn’t met them they call him a “bust”. LIke you said, “he is a unique athlete” and putting him in a position where he can use the extraordinary skill set he has is not an easy job. Especially when defenses are keying on him when he’s on the field. It’s up to Payton to find ways to get him the ball in order to use those skills.

However, I don’t think returning punts is the way to do it. Every time he recieves a punt he reminds me of a squirrel that just ran out in front of your car and can’t decide which way to go. You know what happens then: SPLAT, no more squirrel. Rod Harper has proven in the pre-season he can be consistant at that position and I think we should give him a chance.

Nice piece. I agree in a different time Reggie would have flourished against the slower defensive teams of the 60’s and 70’s…However, this team is rightfully being built around the arm of Drew Brees. The offensive lineman needed to elevate Reggie’s career in the style you suggest don’t exist on the Saints roster…neither do the slow defenses he would need to face.

Instead we have bruisers capable of straight-ahead blocking and decent pass protection and a league full of defensive players capable of tracking down the quickest of receivers and backs. Also, defenses today are drilled today to watch for the cutback move, which is where Bush made so much hay during his college years.

Peyton knows he can’t ask Bush to be a straight-ahead runner because he also very injury prone. He missed 4 games in 2007, 6 games in 2008 and started this year coming off another injury. I would argue it’s this fear of getting him hurt further, not being on the edge of a miraculous “breakthrough” as the reason we continue to run edge plays and screen passes for him.

If we’re serious about using his talents fully and extending his playing days we need to convert him into more of a pure WR while using him occasionally as a change-of-pace back and in wildcat formations. Train Bush to find and sit down in the weak spots of a zone defense and get him the ball there away from the line of scrimmage. Maybe then he would be more than an interesting footnote.

The Gale Sayers comparisons are somewhat warranted, if you take into account the fact that his professional career was decimated by a series of knee injuries. I’m not so sure a 68 game career is what people had in mind, when they initially drew that parallel. If so, Reggie only needs to finish out this year and next to be out of the red. In the meantime, geaux Fromage Rouge.

this is the produce now or your gone league how long should we wait for a high priced first round draft pick to come around i say with the way greg williams is mixing up the defense and mixing in the 3-4 we need more linebackers so we trade him now and get what we can for him our offense is great with or with out him our defense is playing good i say we get them some more help

I feel the same way about much of your post. Reggie is a lot of the reason for the success of this offense. Most plays that he is in you see anywhere from 2 to 4 players trying to key on him even if hes not their assignment. He makes them back up a step or cheat up, he moves the def. just being on the field.
   I really think people who want to get rid of him aren’t seeing these contributions.

He does need to work on ball security I won’t defend him on that account but he is a unique athlete and is a positive part of our offense over all I for one hope they keep him. Wanna have him on the other side of the ball against us and have to game plan for him???

This guy has been here long enough ! He is only slightly decent on swing pass routes and dances too much. He tries tooo hard to make people miss instead of putting his head down and hitting someone. He cannot run through the line where EVERY other Saints running back can. Not a coincidence people. GET SOMEONE WORTH A DAMN FOR HIS TRADE.

where he was the decoy and the D bit hard! Get out of here with that crap Kittenfingers!

Hes talking about the TD pass to Colston! and i think it was Reggie in on the play action to Moore.

as much as I like PT and Bell, that Reggie is the only RB on our team that would have scored on the TD run he had. He does turn the corner well. He is very talented. We are winning, and doing so impressively. Sean Payton is doing a great job. It’s a little sad that Reggie is not putting up record-breaking stats, but THE SAINTS are, so I’m ok with that. If Reggie was not on this team, it would mean we have one less offensive weapon. That would be bad. The only problem with having so many weapons is that someone, on any given week, who has awesome talent, will not be in the headlines or the limelight. I’m ok with that. And I hope the Saints can contionue to be ok with that. too.

“If Reggie was not on this team, it would mean we have one less offensive weapon.”

I seriously doubt that. We’d likely sign or promote a 4th RB or 6th WR to take his place. They just wouldn’t carry the same name recognition, salary or boom-or-bust performance portfolio. P.J. Hill or Adrian Arrington would probably be given active roster consideration, though a pure power back to better complement Bell and Thomas could also be a viable option during the offseason.

He keeps getting only 7 touches a game, he won’t be around next season.

And did I hear Aikman mentioning the Saints should convert Bush to wide receiver?

1. I don’t care what the stats say, Bush is like 5’10’’ or 5’11’’ tops.

2.His speed matches up well on linebackers, but it’s nothing special to NFL cornerbacks.

3. He doesn’t run particularly good routes (I’m inclined to think that’s why he and Drew are having such a tough time hooking up on those passes in the flat)

4. People spend their entire football careers through Pop Warner, High School, College and into the Pros playing Wide Receiver and still take three years to start, and Bush is expected to just switch over with no issues?

5. He has great hands for a running back, but probably just average or less by wide receiver standards.

6. Who in their right mind would start Bush at receiver over Colston, Moore, Henderson or Meachum? You can’t honestly believe he’s a better receiver than any of them.

7. Conversion = waste. Either they find a way to utilize him as a running back or hybrid type role or move on.

but we are WINNING- with this recipe. Our game plan is so incredibly flexible. We are in this zone where if we don’t have Bell, we use Thomas. If we don’t have Moore, we use Henderson. We have Reggie and we could actually get by without him. But why would we want to? He contributes. He gets first downs, he gets touchdowns. He draws attention in play action and makes linebackers worryt if he might be too fast for them and make them look silly in the open field. Okay, he makes tons of money, but that is Mr. Benson’s problem. And next year??? Who cares, all I want to do is get to the SB, win it this year, and then address next year after that. If we start worrying about next year during this year, we will sabotage this year. Mark my words, by season end we will see why having R Bush is a good idea. we are already seeing it if you look close, but by season’s end it will be crystal clear.

But not many players in the skill positions are going to see more than 7 touches other than PT or Bell in this offense so what’s your point. Winning is winning who gives a shit on who gets the most touches.

If Reggie is so much of a liability in the backfield, so unproductive, and so expensive, what makes any of you that want him traded think that the Saints would get anything decent in return? If he’s as bad as coldpizza thinks, I doubt they could get a 4th round pick for him. Trade him for Dorsey? Yeah, right. I don’t think even the Chiefs front office is that stupid (though they seem hell bent on trying to prove it with some of their selections recently).

IMHO, the only problem with Reggie is the money. But when you consider his contract, you have to accept the fact that he was drafted 2nd overall, and that’s what determines rookie contracts. Even if his contract were restructured, it would only serve to move money around, e.g., from salary to bonus. He’ll still be getting the same total in the end. Once his contract is up in a couple of years, then, yes, this conversation is worth having, but right now it seems kind of silly.

There’s a sucker born every minute. There are also quite a few other players in the NFL, that I honestly can’t understand what their respective GMs see in them. Maybe there’s a head coach out there more creative than Sean Payton. One that can come up with a way to better utilize his unseen otherworldliness. Sean’s not doing it and that’s all that really matters on this end of the stick. We traded our top receiver in 2005 for a backup MLB and a 4th rounder. If Bush somehow holds more value than that, toss in a relatively young long snapper with a cannon for a wrist and call it a meal deal. Or cut him. At this point, I don’t care. Donte Stallworth was averaging over 13 yards per touch and we seemed to recover just fine from that piss away move. What’s to say we can’t do it again?

Payton is a formation guy, we’ve seen him out there as a decoy, a lot more last season, not much this yr. so far, line him up as a WR and actually throw to him !

because he makes so much money. He gains rushing yards, he catches passes, when he was teamed up with Deuce it was an awesome twosome, and early last year he was on fire- leading the league in TD receptions before he got hurt. He certainly was important in our only NFC championship game even if though we lost ( and I will admit I really thought his taunting Urlacher was a bad move in that game). But, he was a big factor. I was at the Eagles game when his19 yd td run broke their back. And then last game when he again was almost an afterthought, he comes through with a td run that no one else on our team could have made. And that broke the Giants backs- we were only up by 10 points at that point and this changed the whole game- we go into the locker room with a TD and a 17pt lead at halftime. No one seemed to notice, but that DESTROYED the Giants. They had a lot less hope because remember they could have been down 10, had gotten momentum if they stopoped us, and receiving the kickoff to start the half instead they had a 17 pt deficit and no hope of stopping our offense.

The problem with this season ( and it’s really NOT a problem- everyone just keeps trying to make it a problem) is that we have a mutitude of weapons. So none on the team, NONE ONE…is putting up the numbers that they would put up if we got rid of 2-3 weapons. Look- last year Moore had a breakout season- but there was no Meachem and there was no Bush for part of it and there was an injured Shockey, injured Colston part of the season, no Bell, etc. So Moore went to town and put up career stats because he was a weapon on a team that had a lot less weaponry. There is only one football. You guys have to get used to winning. This is what can happen. Individual goals are sacrificed in the name of team goals and you get WINS. So get used to Reggie doing what Reggie does. He helps us win. He won’t make the Pro Bowl. I know people who make his kind of money should put up Pro Bowl numbers. But his money issues are Mr Benson’s problems because we don’t need LBs, or Safeteies or WRs or Ols, or QBs. WE HAVE IT ALL. We could add someone like Terrell Suggs tomorrow and it might all turn sour, or Orlando Pace or Knowshon Moreno. Why, so we can, what….win by more points. Have a better record right now than 5-0??? Get straight here, enjoy the 5-0 soon to be 6-0. Leave Reggie alone, Payton has it under control. Suppose we got rid of Reggie tomorrow and then we lose to the Dolphins and it had nothing, zero, zilch to do with letting Reggie go? Everyone would freak and second guess and then this great chemistry would be a big mess and ther would be chaos and self doubt and bitterness, etc. At least now we keep rolling, win or lose, with a roster tht we KNOW can beat the other good teams in the NFC. We already know that. And that, gentleman, is how you get to the Superbowl. Let’s not ruin it.

he is, was and always will be a fraud.

at least your not bashing Reggie. like the rest of these “fans” are. Nice post.

Everyone wants to trade him? Why? He’s essentially third string right now. If he’s happy with that and willing to take less money, why get rid of him? I really don’t see how you can argue that he isn’t a great 3rd down back.

reasons Reggie got soooooo much hype in college, is because he attended a school with enough talent at RB to afford him the opportunities to do the things he does (or did) so well. By contrast, consider Michael Bennett, who would have been Deuce’s backup, had the Saints not drafted Reggie. He’s also a former first round pick with just as much speed as Bush, decent hands out of the backfield, a history of injury problems at the pro level, etc. The primary difference, at least in my mind, stems from the way they were utilized at university. Bennett was the featured back at Wisconsin. What head coach in their right mind is going to risk injury to someone that integral to their offense, by having them return punts? With opportunity comes success, with success comes the spotlight, with the spotlight comes the hype. In Bush’s case, it’s been a bittersweet pill to swallow at the next level. Bitter because he’s destined to play his entire career in the shadow of his former self, a shadow littered with unrealistic expectations, comparisons to fellows with bronze busts in Canton, etc. Sweet because he still has his own special piece of bronze hardware to show for the chances he was given. Not that the latter means a hill of beans nowadays. Although, I guess he could always pawn his Heisman to offset some of the money he’s going to lose on his next contract. Either that or use some of the cash USC paid him to dazzle, way back when.

but for the sake of his career he’ll want to leave this off-season, unless Payton starts utilizing him more later in the season.

could have…..I don’t have the faintest clue why his name came up. He was in the league for 5 years before Reggie arrived. Don’t see how he would have been Deuce’s backup, he was pretty mediocre. Reggie was never Deuce’s backup. Let’s be real. Reggie had 1300 yds combined rushing and receiving his rookie year playing part time. Bennett had one good year, back 4 years before Reggie arrived and was washed up by 2006, having shown only a glimmer of his one seasons potential. Everyone forgets so fast.

and makes millions. He’s a fraud. He was #4 receiver on the Patriots by the end of his season there and the Eagles figured out he was lame real fast too. He can run 2 routes.

he averaged 2.6 catches per game. Not exactly the impact player you would expect for the muti-million contract he was getting. He had no work ethic, and quite frankly it seemed he was okay with just putting in the least amount of effort to still make 3-5 nil per year and not put his body at risk. That’s why I say he’s a fraud. He had no heart and no team loyalty. I saw him up here in Phila. and he was a phony. That’s why Phila got rid of him, that’s why NE goit rid of him, that’s why Payton got rid of him. In NE he moved down the depth chart below Moss, Welker, Gaffney and maybe even another receiver. He was either 4th or 5th, couldn’t even beat out Gaffney. At least Reggie gives you 100% and is a team player and wants to have an impact in a game.

big deal, we’re undefeated. Reggie has made contributiions such as TDs, first downs, blocks, etc. He’s going nowhere this season as far as trades are concerned. What’s the big deal? Can’t you sit back and enjoy this great season and give Reggie credit for either the small, medium or large contributions he is making to an awesome team? So what he makes a lot of money. Look how much Brunell is making for essentially holding a clipboard. It doesn’t matter how much Reggie or anyone else makes when your team’s management has put into place the personnel to win. Sometimes you gets bargains, sometimes you over pay. It’s the NFL, that’s the way it works. Bell could get more yards this year than Westbrook, but make way less. It doesn’t matter. All that matters is we win. If Nesbit is our TE and we win, the only thing that matters is we win. If the Saints have to play the rest of their games on Sat mornings at LSU, all that matters is we win. Until we lose and you can connect Reggie to the losing, none of it matters.

If you don’t like Reggie Bush become a Falcons fan. Let Reggie do what Reggie does and thats quiet all of the doubters (you know who you are). Did any of you chear last week when he scored that touchdown or have you ever cheared for him when he makes a great play because if you did you are a hypocrite.

REGGIE…REGGIE…REGGIE. Remember that?

sound like Adam Schecter with all you drivvle about stats and such. I happy to see everyone knows how to Google.

And people have nothing to argue about. I’m sorry, Coldpizza, you have a lot of merit in most of what you say, but if money is out of the equation, there’s no way you should want him gone. A roster spot? You’re sweating a roster spot? That’s kind of ridiculous given some of the bodies we have out there. To say that he’s not a solid third-string runningback at least is total BS.

Bottom line is we can’t trade him, because no one is going to pick up his contract. We cut him and we lose money, and someone else gets something for free. Best course is to keep him for less money. Everyone argues that he is the third-string running back, so if that’s the case, he’s the best third-string running back in football, hands down. He’s also the starter week-in and week-out. I think it’s because when Reggie is in, the defense doesn’t know what’s coming. They have to watch the flats, pitches, make sure he doesn’t break one, look for the play action. There’s just a lot to be afraid of. They’re terrified of him getting into space. Once that initial series is done, Payton can see what kind of defense he’s up against, and he tools his offense around it.

I honestly think Reggie’s going to hit a groove in coming weeks and we’ll see what we saw in the early parts of 2008. It is important to remember that he’s well-liked too. Dealing away someone that is liked in the lockerroom can have other negative effects on the team.

if we have injuries, we deal with them. Most teams have injuries and it often is the single most significant factor as to how much of a contender many teams are. Can’t worry about Bell and PT, we have Bush, Hamilton and Hill – you can’t expect to have Frank Gore backing up Bell and PT and then Fred Taylor on the PS. Our team is as deep as any team in the NFL amd that’s the best you can ask for. After that you just have to hope for the best. It really seems sad to dis one of our guys this bad who has contributed to a thus far undefeated season and also helped our team go to the NFC Championship game just a short time ago. Reggie is going nowhere as far as a trade. Get over it.

Wow, you really REALLY don’t like him. Are you Kim’s ex-boyfriend or something? If you are, I’m jealous.

5 – 0
6 – 0 soon?

and you all are complaining why?

If Bush scores the winning TD against the fish, CP will be the 1st. to #%$ in his jeans.

reggie made an AWESOME TD!!! picture perfect “lets get this shit done” play

Reggie dove 18 freaking feet for a touchdown. Last week, he out ran the Giants LBs to the edge for a TD.

Pierre floundered when trying to pick up a blitz at least twice today, and gave up at least one sack. Reggie’s blitz blocking has been great this year.

Is Reggie’s yards/touch still the be-all, end-all stat for you? The guy is an elite athlete and he’s proving it week in and week out.

maybe a face book position would work too?

it’s fruitless, we’ll just keep getting these dissertations peppered with condescending dashes of what he thinks…tired of it

It would just be meen leaving him with a broken toy and shooting air balls that Dominique Wilkins goal tends. Haha

Running the ball is just one aspect of a runningback’s duties. One of the most noteworthy, but just one in any case. Reggie is better in all other categories save running the football, per your arguments over ypc.

Don’t bring out yards per catch stats either. That doesn’t prove anything. Receivers are only able to run the routes they are given. Reggie runs all of the swings, which means he’s started out behind the line, so that argument is worthless.

He’s still in New Orleans and still an important part of the offense, because he can do what Thomas and Bell can’t, period.

I personally thought Bell looked the best yesterday, especially since it wasn’t until he got the run game going, that the offense really started to look good. Even so, you have to give Bush some credit on the touchdown run. There’s only a handfull of people that could have made that play . . . all time. Shonn Green sure as shit couldn’t have done it.

He wouldn’t have had to.

Yeah, you’re an official Hater! He scores and instead of at least just saying, “yeah good job,” you talk about how he “should’ve” ran it in. You’re hilarious. At this point guys I hope you know we’re arguing with a hater. It’s not like how Philinwood and I use to argue—this dude just hate B just to hate. It’s hard not to laugh at this hateration. It’s pathetic yes but still very funny, let the dude hate.

excluding punt returns, my boy only got what, 6 touches? Sure maybe he would’ve had 7 or 8. And he didn’t look to be still nursing that knee after that superman dive. Not looking like Payton utilizing him that much. Again, will he be here next year? I don’t think him not restructuring his contract will be the issue. It’ll be about him being able to be used enough to feel like he’s earning his keep and bettering his career…

I think you are basically right. CP just basically doesn’t like Reggie at all and will not give him credit at all. It seems to stem from College football. I feel I have been much more objective and open minded. At this point I realize Reggie’s value. I no longer care about how much he gets paid, Payloo have succeeded in putting a quality team together with great chemistry, depth and talent and still pay Reggie big bucks. That is no longer any of my concern since we have the team to win it all, we just need to play to our potential like we did in the second half yesterday, but clearly not in the 1st half. Reggie has made plays that no one on the roster can make, that very few if any in the NFL can make. Having Reggie on the roster iss like owning a Honda and A Maserati and you only take the Maserati out for special occasions. It’s still worth having the Maserati. That kind of talented person on your roster will always cost you a premium. Would I like to see Reggie make more great plays? The answer is only if it means a Saints victory. That’s the only thing that counts.

NO ONE WANTED TO GIVE UP ANYTHING FOR THAT LOSER. GUESS WHAT? THEY WERE RIGHT!! If he had value, GMs would have been banging down the doors to get him on their roster!! We got rid of Stallworth for the 2006 season. WE went to the NFC championship game if I remember, and we beat the Eagles in the game to get there. And where was Stallworth?? OH YEAH, HE WAS ON THE EAGLES!!!!! If he was so good, why didn’t he lead them over us in victory!!! Because he is a fraud. The Eagles sent him packing as soon as they could and then so did The Patriots. He landed in NFL purgatory, namely Cleveland. That’s right, Cleveland, where all the current superstars are tripping over each other to get to.

how Reggie keeps getting the pass from his numerous defenders here and abroad. His beautiful six yard leap for a touchdown was unique and helpful, but, in fairness, there are a pile of running backs that could just simply beat a single blocker on the ground to get in the endzone. Not taking that away, but it’s style points are the only thing that Reggie brought specifically. And, like every other reverse he gets good yardage from this year, Drew Brees has to block for him. Exciting to watch, but absolutely not worth the risk.

And then there’s every other time he was in on a play. He couldn’t win his single coverage passes, he got beat on a blitz right in front of the endzone, he couldn’t get out of the backfield as a rusher, and, bad blocking or not, he couldn’t break one tackle in punt returns. Isn’t that something he’s supposed to be good at? I’ll concede that the punt return blocking is abysmal, and I don’t know if anyone could get more than a few yards behind that group of keystone cops, but he certainly doesn’t get to slide on that. It’s his fault as much as anyone else’s. Maybe, if he beat a gunner once in the open field, it would turn out that he had some blockers further up field. They have to be somewhere, right? But we’ll never know, because he can’t get away from anyone.

He was getting plenty of opportunities in the first half, so I don’t know if the “he’s not being given a chance” thing works, because he was stifled, without exception, until his one play in the fourth quarter. And am I the only guy who had terrible flashbacks to another fourth-quarter drive in Florida that culminated in a similar play, only differently? Don’t get me wrong, I was cheering for Reggie when that happened, and I’m glad it worked, but Jesus, what a huge risk! Payton’s got balls, because there was nothing about Reggie’s play that day that would have led me to call his number on a trick play at that point.

By the way, the reason other players get more leeway from me, at least, on bad days, is because they’ve had good days recently. The reason Mike Bell’s scoop-and-score fumble in week 1 didn’t garner boos was because he put up over 100 yards on the ground, and sustained drives all day. The reason Colston doesn’t get a full-on rant about the piss-poor one td day he had yesterday, is because he has so many great days playing his chosen position. And the reason Reggie doesn’t get 20 touches a game is because he can’t survive 16 games that way. Last year, he was putting up respectable numbers from the feature back spot, until he had to miss nearly the entire second half of the season.

What boggles my mind is, how my hope for Reggie’s future in New Orleans dwindles with each passing week, and, from watching the same games, there are people who see the exact opposite. Reggie is coulda/woulda/shoulda, personified.

Oh, wait, …he did…… Seems to me that important game changing TDs should be nothing to thumb your nose at….

3 games this season he did so against the best 3 teams we have played.

And against the Giants it was a handoff that went off the left edge on a kick out block. Pretty soon you guys are going to be like Buddy Ryan and his famous quote about Cris Carter. “Buddy, why did you trade Cris Carter away?” Buddy- “All he ever does is score touchdowns!” I still say if it’s not broke, don’t fix it. Don’t think about getting rid of even the waterboy when you are undefeated. And, from my perspective, there were Saints that did a lot worse than Reggie in the first half. Reggies has also had some important 1st downs too but no one has given him credit for that either.

And I don’t see where Reggie was “gut punching his team for 50 of 60 minutes.” he had no blocking on punts or most of the time he ran the ball. If you look at the stats, a lot of our runs in the first half went almost nowhere. Our passing game was gut punching our team early on more than anything else, with interceptions and dropped balls. Reggie’s impact on most of the plays was minimal and he hardly touched the ball.

“Reggie’s impact on most of the plays was minimal and he hardly touched the ball.”

Is that a summarization of the Dolphins game or his professional career?

incessant babbling: See nearly all of oldpizza’s post.

Lol

Okay, the argument’s starting to devolve a bit.

I just find the condescending attitude about Reggie, who is a word class professional athlete by a , well I don’t know what you are but I know you are not and never have been a professional athlete, very pathetic. It’s one thing to add insight, have debate, point out different aspects of a team or player. But to have a vendetta and give him no credit and to attack him incessantly pretty much anonomously, well there is no other word but pathetic. He’s one of us, yes us, the 2009 New Orleans Saints team and fan base and the team just happens to be undefeated so having a vendetta against a guy with such immense talent is sad and says loads about you.

I like that- OLDPIZZA- I’m assuming that’s NOT A TYPO!!

totally agree!

Being 6-0 does not make a case for someone being good enough to keep. You don’t stop fixing issues and making tweaks, because you’re doing well at the present moment. Someone is always working harder than you, wants your position and is doing everything in their power to take it. If you aren’t always seeking to improve, you’ll pay dearly.

That being said, I don’t think getting rid of Bush is an improvement on the team. Bottom line. I do think getting some more athletic linebackers is, though.