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Will Payton ever learn his lesson?

 

In the first quarter, Payton called alot of passing plays which lead to short drives, turnovers and good field position for the dolphins. IMO, this was the number one reason why the team was down 24-3. Thankfully a couple of turnovers helped cut the lead to 7, but once again Payton called three straight passing plays which lead to a sack and fumble and a 27-17 deficit. Then, Payton went to the running game with Bell and the offense exploded, gave the defense more rest, and put more pressure on Miami.

 

I'm just wondering why Payton would be so pass happy on the road where its difficult to handle a ferocious pass rush instead of keeping it simple and establishing balance. I hope he realizes how his play-calling put the team in a predicament which could have been avoided by pounding the rock with Pierre and Bell.


Awesome win still!

This FanPost was written by a reader and member of Canal Street Chronicles. It does not necessarily reflect the views of CSC and its staff or editors.

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He figured it out

it just took him a little longer than it should have. I think he’s just a slow learner.

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by Saintsational on Oct 25, 2009 9:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

What I think

is that Payton goes into a game with a game plan and he tends to not want to get away from the plan when he should. If I remember what I read before the game, the fins run defense was supposed to be fairly good and their secondary somewhat depleted and weak. His game plan was probably to pass more than run, and his reluctance to deviate from the plan, even when it wasn’t working, caused the early deficit. Once he decided to change up everything started working out, and the end result was great! The Saints of years past would have never pulled it off.

On a side note, watching ch 6 news late after SNF and they have a reporter at the airport waiting for the team flight, and the amount of people there waiting is unreal!!

by BayouRebel on Oct 25, 2009 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

To answer your question:

He learned it on the last play of the first half.

Just what part of our win are you unhappy with? Jeeeeeez!

by Just 'Nother Day on Oct 25, 2009 9:46 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

i'm happy with the win

But Payton’s play-calling has been a hot-button topic the two previous seasons and even the NFC title game where he totally abandoned the running game and allowed the Bears free reign against Brees and the o-line.

I just want to him to avoid these mistakes on the road. Its one thing to be pass-happy in the Dome where the fans are behind the team, but in opposing stadiums, the crowd is behind the defense and it’s hard making adjustments at the line with the loud noise. Running the ball not only keeps the crowd quiet, it also slows down the pass rush which happened in the 2nd half.

HEY, IT's THE BUM FROM THE DARK! GET A JOB YOU BUM!

by grimsleyfan on Oct 25, 2009 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t get that either. I also didn’t understand the point of the first challenge, even when it was pretty apparent that the refs had botched the call. A first down on the Dolphins end of the field versus a time out. Why? There was a play later that very same drive that stood even a better chance of being reversed — Bess with both hands around the ball as it hit the ground could easily be ruled a completion under the Bert Emanuel Rule — but the Dolphins didn’t even bother challenging it. Instead, they kicked the FG. Who had more to gain/lose in those two situations? I really think Sean Payton flies by the seat of his pants too often as a head coach. On the replay, he’s already reaching for his red flag, as the referee is ruling it a completion. No hesitation to consider the down or distance. Just “I know what I saw and I’m about to prove you wrong.” Knee jerk decisions almost always come back to haunt you in the long run. He really needs to learn how to control his emotions … count to “5 Mississippi” … something.

"Paralyze resistance with persistence" -Woody Hayes

by coldpizza on Oct 25, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So, let’s see. Had a Patriots fan noticed a tendency of their CBs to occasionally get beat on corner routes in the end zone — particularly when matched up against bigger WRS — during the 2007 regular season, it wouldn’t have beared mentioning, right? I mean, they won week in and week out. What’s the point of discussing a shortcoming that hasn’t led to a defeat yet? A taller or more athletic CB couldn’t have POSSIBLY made a difference, when matched up against All-World Plaxico Burress that fateful night in February.

"Paralyze resistance with persistence" -Woody Hayes

by coldpizza on Oct 25, 2009 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

remember...

SP wanted to go into this game with variety… they wanted passing and rushing!!
if they stopped or even thought they stopped are passing they could focus on one thing… soooo some of the calls werent the best…

but also the first quarter we had NO momentum and the saints get that by passing…

i am not going to dislike this win but i will say i am effing happy they got it back in the 2nd or we might be fighting over whether we should have lost by 20 or 30 points to the fins….
ewwwwwwwwwwww

rejoice! a W is a W and the team that wants it the most will get it, WHO DAT GOT IT

I am a jack of all, and master of none

by doublewide on Oct 25, 2009 9:55 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

re**

If they meaning the fins… thought we stopping our passing…

I am a jack of all, and master of none

by doublewide on Oct 25, 2009 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no he has not learned yet

Thomas is not our running back he is just like reggie bush just a good switch up for mike bell when he needs a breather or two. Come on mike bell is our power running back not Thomas whenever we need hard yards who do we call in mike bell. Mike Bell should be the starter and every down back.

by iori125883 on Oct 25, 2009 10:50 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The Mix is the Thing

I think the present mix of Bell, Thomas, and a smathering of Bush is enough to keep them fairly rested and a constant threat. Remember, MOST injuries happen when a player is tired! Need short yardage? Throw in a rested Thomas and Bush. The former can run it and the latter can catch it.

By the way, I kind of doubt that Payton, Williams, or anyone else on the Saints Coaching Staff is checking this blog for pointers! Jeeeeez, if they were we’d probably still have Billy Kilmer!!!

by Just 'Nother Day on Oct 25, 2009 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My thoughts on the game.

1st the Fins came out much fresher than the Saints after the bye week to start the game, and I think was the reason why the passing game early on resulted in the interceptions, sacks, and points for Miami. Payton’s game plan I think early on was to take advantage of some of the player matchups with his receivers over Miami’s somewhat suspect defensivebacks. Thus forcing Miami to try and play from behind and nullify the dreaded Wildcat and homefield advantage. Miami’s defense responded and some could say probably played somewhat over their heads to start the game. Brees was being pressured way too much. Early on I would like to see more of Thomas and Bell. If only to open up some play action pass. Saints run defense did an excellent job today and was the reason why the Saints were able to come back and win the game after being 21 points down. Take away Ricky Williams 68 yard TD run and they give up less than 100 yards today vs the # 1 running team in the NFL. Those plays are going to happen. Just have to limit them and thus far to their credit the Saints have. Not to say there isn’t room here for improvement. The defense is definitely the reason why the Saints are now 6-0. And why this year they are finishing games. Because of the defense the offense gets more opportunities to score it also increases the TOP CP’s favorite non scoring stat. With the TOP in the Saints favor it keeps their defense fresher and is major reason why the Saints have outscored their opponents 74-12 (2 of that 12 given up when Drew took an intentional safety) in the 4th quarter. To CP’s credit he is right but there are exceptions but those are in the minority. (Colts vs Fins earlier this year.) The Saints have too many sure handed/great route running/deep threat receivers for an opposing defense cover for an entire game, with an elite QB such as Brees. And a tired defense will be more suspect to a running game. Even the Saints 3 or 2-1/2(for you Reggie haters) headed running game. I can’t wait to get MJ back for our special teams. They looked much better with him.

by NOSFan4Life on Oct 26, 2009 1:16 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

10 things I noticed

1. Bell is the best back on the team from a pure “running” standpoint. He has incredible field vision and plays HARD.

2. Payton has so much faith in Brees, that it’s hard for him to not call passing plays all the time. He is getting better though.

3. The two plays that Payton called, which bothered me most were the “fake swings to Reggie, throwback screens.” It was a big loss the first time, and exactly the same the second time. It was extremely obvious and looked to me as though it would’ve worked much better had they faked the screen and thrown the swing (Reggie was all alone out there).

4. Confidence Confidence Confidence. Ya’ll remember in 06 when the Saints would be down by two touchdowns and come back to win it. Brees said the team always feels they have the other team right where they want them and will win it. They look like that team again.

5. Colston had a really bad day. He still had great stats but some really bad plays.

6. Shockey is obviously worth the price we paid.

7. Teams are starting to play the passing lanes and try to bat balls rather than sack Brees (Not good).

8. Field Goal kicking is still suspect.

9. Our punt return blocking is atrocious!

10. Greer can’t catch to save his life :)

The people who say, "Winning isn't everything," don't win very often.

If stupidity is a cancer, you're terminal.

When you die and go to hell, you come back as a Jets fan.

by Hooahsaint on Oct 26, 2009 2:06 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree with just about all of that.

"Paralyze resistance with persistence" -Woody Hayes

by coldpizza on Oct 26, 2009 2:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

#5 is dead-on

I just watched the game on Rewind, and since the outcome wasn’t in doubt, I was able to watch it calmly and analyze some of the individual efforts. I thought Colston had one of his worst games, dropping several balls and allowing the ball to be taken away for an int in the end zone. Shockey, Vilma, Hargrove, Bell, and Porter all had good games.

One last comment though, Grant and Will Smith were nowhere to be found. Hope it’s not a return to their play of the last couple seasons.

"Never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake." -- Napoleon Bonaparte

by Cajun in CA on Oct 26, 2009 2:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

All good points

This game, I think the Saints tried the same thing I mentioned about the Giants game with the early play action. PT wasn’t getting much, and the Dolphins didn’t bite as hard on the fakes, so it didn’t work so well. I think Payton really wanted his early lead plan to work like every other week. I think that’s part of what has made him more comfortable with power running calls as games go on. But when it didn’t work this week, Brees’ short drops and extra second on the play fakes got him ass-bit. When they went to naked boots and shotgun, and just running from run packages, he had a much better game. And they did get a good fake out of a 3 TE set later, after Bell had established the run for real. And yes, those stupid-ass fake swing screens should be dropped in the furnace this morning. For whatever reason, Brees can’t connect with Bush on passes to save his life, and the Dolphins were pressuring on the outside all day.

Also, I wish I had game rewind. I have to rely on my day-old alcohol-hazed observations for analysis.

"Brees will kill you, but he lets you decide how fast he tightens the garrote." -Chris Brown

by FuSoYa on Oct 26, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I voted

for Shockey as the MVP in this game. His two big receptions and runs came at the exact time we needed a boost to keep the momentum going.

Number 6 is right on the money; worth every bowl of gumbo!

by Just 'Nother Day on Oct 26, 2009 4:55 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

yea i agree shokey had a great game

and anyone that can make another nfl player his bitch repeatedly while running for 40 yards on national tv deserves it

by simone219 on Oct 26, 2009 5:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was a great win overall. actually it was just what we neded, but

some things puzzled me. It has always looked like Hargrove is the kind of player that should get lots of playing time, and he did make some big plays, but it seemed like he was ‘t getting much time until Sed went down. I was watching it in a bar, so if I am wrong, let me know. Also, didn’t seem like Meachem got many chances. As much as I like Moore, it just seems when you have Colston, Henderson and Meachem out there, some DBs on the other team are going to have a terrible mismatch as far as height and physicality. Also, again I was in a bar, can anyone enlighten me as to the penalty on Roby’s nice kick return?? Also- any news on Big Sed’s injury?? We really handled the Gimmickcat well.

"Indecision may or may not be my biggest problem" - Jimmy Buffett

by Philinwood on Oct 26, 2009 6:56 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Delay of game for spiking the ball. He was mad because he's too damn slow.

The people who say, "Winning isn't everything," don't win very often.

If stupidity is a cancer, you're terminal.

When you die and go to hell, you come back as a Jets fan.

by Hooahsaint on Oct 26, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

“We really handled the Gimmickcat well.”

We only gave up 2.7 yds per play on the Wildcat. That’s definitely better than most teams have handled it on the whole. 18 pts off of it in the red zone, though. That’s nothing to hang our hats on.

"Paralyze resistance with persistence" -Woody Hayes

by coldpizza on Oct 26, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

thats why they started trying to throw...

we stopped them flat at least 3 times maybe more on thier own 20… once they started taking knees

I am a jack of all, and master of none

by doublewide on Oct 26, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

bell runs like he's an anvil

i noticed that when he runs, he pretty much looks for contact if he figures he’s not gonna score. it’s awesome.

by nanvinnie on Oct 26, 2009 9:27 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

he definitely runs angry...alot like Bradshaw of the Giants

its almost as if he plays like a linebacker running the ball. the dude has a mean streak. i loved it when he layed the wood to channing crowder. (or was that joey porter?) i forget.

Dud has spoken.

by Super Dud on Oct 26, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He and Bradshaw have very similiar in running styles. I mentioned that during the Giants game last week. Pierre Thomas is more like Ryan Grant, imo. I like what both bring to the table.

"Paralyze resistance with persistence" -Woody Hayes

by coldpizza on Oct 26, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really think Bell needs to be the starter. He’s got a ton of vision and always seems to bust through the line and find the running lanes. He’s more of a threat to break it on any given play. And he’s more like Deuce . . . I miss Deuce.

The people who say, "Winning isn't everything," don't win very often.

If stupidity is a cancer, you're terminal.

When you die and go to hell, you come back as a Jets fan.

by Hooahsaint on Oct 26, 2009 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're preaching to the choir, almost literally

We have no Deuce, but I think this committee thing is working like gangbusters. There always seems to be an answer for defenses between PT and Bell. It’s awesome. And, man, Bell was like a bull in the second half. He can’t drag guys like Deuce could, but it’s a thing of beauty to watch him lower his head into defenders’ faces when he makes contact.

"Brees will kill you, but he lets you decide how fast he tightens the garrote." -Chris Brown

by FuSoYa on Oct 26, 2009 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like a smaller version of Larry Zonka

He just loves the pop of the contact.

Fat, dumb, and happy. Hell, two out of three ain't bad!

by Just 'Nother Day on Oct 26, 2009 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great googy moogly, boy … there ain’t no Z in Csonka!

"Paralyze resistance with persistence" -Woody Hayes

by coldpizza on Oct 27, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, the defenders definitely know when he’s hit them.

The people who say, "Winning isn't everything," don't win very often.

If stupidity is a cancer, you're terminal.

When you die and go to hell, you come back as a Jets fan.

by Hooahsaint on Oct 27, 2009 7:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bells

The people who say, "Winning isn't everything," don't win very often.

If stupidity is a cancer, you're terminal.

When you die and go to hell, you come back as a Jets fan.

by Hooahsaint on Oct 26, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

HE DA MAN!

The people who say, "Winning isn't everything," don't win very often.

If stupidity is a cancer, you're terminal.

When you die and go to hell, you come back as a Jets fan.

by Hooahsaint on Oct 26, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

hells bells

I am a jack of all, and master of none

by doublewide on Oct 26, 2009 6:54 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Bell makes that 1st

defender pay, especially if its a DB or a LB they’re stunned when puts the top of his helmet, in their throat and grill, very punishing.Texted my bro-in-laws right after Sharper pic 6 and said now we can run it,and not play in a panic. What a win, a road win I should say , as big as the goal line stand @. Steelers in 87(1st winning Season ever) What a game Whoop Whoop!

You think you know, and you don't know, and you never, ever will.-Jim Mora Sr.

by metryman on Oct 26, 2009 9:38 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

“as big as the goal line stand @. Steelers in 87”

One of my favorite moments as a Saints fan. Sam Mills’s hit on Merril Hoge still rings in my ears to this day.

"Paralyze resistance with persistence" -Woody Hayes

by coldpizza on Oct 27, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still smile everytime I see Hoge on TV. Just one of many Mills made pay. That little guy could bring the wood!

The people who say, "Winning isn't everything," don't win very often.

If stupidity is a cancer, you're terminal.

When you die and go to hell, you come back as a Jets fan.

by Hooahsaint on Oct 27, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs


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