John Carney and Garrett Hartley: Decision Time
Garrett Hartley, the spiky-haired, pill-popping place kicker from Texas is officially back with the Saints after serving his four game suspension for using performance enhancing substances. Other than two missed field goals [Note by Saintsational, Edited 10/07/09 6:48 PM CDT ] during pre-season, Hartley has been perfect in his kicking duties for the team.
But there's a new kid old guy in town and he has been as consistent as ever in his fill-in role. John Carney himself feels confident about his job security. Besides, he was cut by Payton once already and we all know how that turned out. Don't expect coach to make the same mistake again.
The Saints have until Monday to decide what they want to do about their kicking situation. Until then, the big question will be: Who to keep? Let's take a look at the three possible scenarios then offer your own opinion.
Scenario One - Cut Carney
Hartley has distance, accuracy, handles kickoffs and could very well be the future of the Saints kicking game. In fact, other than some possible drug/character issues which now have to be questioned, there is no reason not to just keep Hartley. But would Sean Payton dare cut Carney again? The Saints don't want any bad mojo right now.
Scenario Two - Cut Hartley
Personally, I think this is the least likely situation but there is an old saying, "Dance with the one who brought you." The Saints are undefeated this season and Carney has been a part of that. Garrett might seem unnecessary now with Thomas Morstead's big leg on kickoffs and Carney solid from short range but that still leaves a weakness on long-range field goals. Cutting Hartley also runs the risk of losing him to another team and putting the Saints back in the frustrating position of searching for a franchise kicker.
Scenario Three - Keep Both
The safest and most likely decision. They would both count against the 53-man roster but only one would probably be activated on game day. Give Hartley his chance to take back the starting job. If he runs away with it, everything's great and they could cut Carney at a later date. If there's a total special teams melt down, activate Carney and save the season.
So...which do you think it will it be? No matter what happens, I have only one request: Keep Morstead on kickoffs!
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33 comments
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Comments
“… after serving his four game suspension for using performance enhancing substances.”
No more performance enhancing than coffee, right?
"It feels like a tiny prick " -Reggie Bush
by coldpizza on Oct 7, 2009 7:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Rules are rules, though CP, that's why they call them 'rules'.
Besides, I think John deserves better than to be treated like a fall-back girlfriend. Not to mention (okay, I am mentioning), who knows when Hartley will mature enough to start following them?
If we could just sythesize life in a laboratory, we could prove that the creation of life requires no intelligence.
by Tigernut on Oct 7, 2009 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep both but...
I would want both active – in case a long FG is needed. However, only if this didn’t jeopardize or create a depth problem at an every down position.
by drbonne on Oct 7, 2009 9:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Why can't they both be active?
If they’re counting against the roster, what’s the difference in active/inactive?
What’s the benefit of making one inactive?
by Juncti on Oct 7, 2009 9:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The benefit would be one more active player at another position. Same benefit as designating one of any other multiple-manned position inactive.
"It feels like a tiny prick " -Reggie Bush
by coldpizza on Oct 7, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't a team only have like 47 active players from its 53 man roster in a given game?
That’s why it makes a difference in my mind, but I’m not 100% sure about that.
"Brees will kill you, but he lets you decide how fast he tightens the garrote." -Chris Brown
by FuSoYa on Oct 7, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
teams have a full 53-man roster
and on gameday, teams must designate 47 active players who will suit up and can play in the game. The other six are inactives, and do not suit up and may not play in the game, although they are on the 53-man roster.
"In the end, the bread was in the pudding." -- Bobby McCray
by HansDat on Oct 7, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, fu
Each team has a 53-man roster, and right before gametime, the team identifies the 47 active players who will suit up and can play in the game. The other 6, while still counting on the 53-man roster, do not suit up and cannot play in the game. And there are some complicated rules involving emergency quarterbacks, and who exactly listed as the emergency QB on the “active” roster, etc., but I don’t know them well..
"In the end, the bread was in the pudding." -- Bobby McCray
by HansDat on Oct 7, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just heard some weird stuff about that today
Apparently, the “3rd” qb can only take snaps in the 4th quarter, and if he plays before that, none of the other qb’s can play in the game from then on. I don’t understand the need for those rules, but I heard about them with regard to Miami using Pat White in the wildcat, and losing Pennington. So I guess once Henne came in, White was ineligible to play the rest of their week 3 game.
"Brees will kill you, but he lets you decide how fast he tightens the garrote." -Chris Brown
by FuSoYa on Oct 7, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep both of them....
…but leave Morstead on kick off duty. That guy has a freekin leg.
by jack_casse on Oct 7, 2009 11:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Morstead's Boomin' it
Like a pro-bowler. For now you can keep them both, you can always cut one or the other at a later date.
by Billy Gomila on Oct 7, 2009 12:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I just noticed
the fantasy ticker on the sidebar claims that Carney is keeping his job, at least through the Giants game. I wonder if they both will be active, who drops off the actives list? Also, if Dinkins returns as the blocking TE, do they drop Leckey again? I can’t see Strief or Nesbit being inactive, nor Wendys. I would like to see if Dinkins will be worth the roster space, though. He’s stuck to the roster despite being unusable for pretty much the whole time.
"Brees will kill you, but he lets you decide how fast he tightens the garrote." -Chris Brown
by FuSoYa on Oct 7, 2009 12:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
On an eerie sidenote
I’m digging how the ghost of Sam Mills decided to subliminally show up in that photo of Hartley and Carney.
"It feels like a tiny prick " -Reggie Bush
by coldpizza on Oct 7, 2009 1:43 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
and how could we cut either of them after they were touched by that "51" angel...
"In the end, the bread was in the pudding." -- Bobby McCray
by HansDat on Oct 7, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Morstead on kickoffs....
It looked like the D has been channelling the Dome Patrol during the last 2 games….
Before you pick your Super Bowl winner ask yourself this: Can you name an offense that can keep pace with the Saints?- Jerome Bettis
by Dan39465 on Oct 7, 2009 1:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Morstead for kickoffs
but Carney for the 35 and under kicks with Hartley doing the longer kicks. I feel that Carney will be more accuruate from the short range but they’re afraid to try him on the long ones maybe.
Superbowl bound!!!...I know! do you?! Go Saints!!
by skinnykinney on Oct 7, 2009 2:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think
we should bring in Morten Andersen for PATs. He probably doesn’t have the leg Carney does, but he’s been more accurate throughout his career. I also think Mike Vanderjagt should be signed for FGs 36-49 yards. Hartley owns the 50-54 range. Ola Kimrin from 55 and beyond. And definitely keep Morstead on kickoffs. Hope you’re taking notes, Sean. That leaves us with 41 active roster spots to tinker with. Championship.
"Paralyze resistance with persistence" -Woody Hayes
by coldpizza on Oct 7, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about
Kimrin from 55-60 and Dempsy for 60 and beyond!! So that leaves 40 active roster spots.
by vicvega26 on Oct 7, 2009 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s so crazy, it just might work.
"Paralyze resistance with persistence" -Woody Hayes
by coldpizza on Oct 8, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The game day active roster isn't the problem
I doubt Payton would worry about whether he can activate Leigh Torrence, for instance, instead of Hartley. The problem is the 53 man roster. Who do they cut? Leckey? They brought him back for some depth on the line, which is still needed. Casillas, and hope to get him back on the practice squad? Chase Daniel, again back to the practice squad? Tough choices.
I know they want to keep Hartley for the future, but Carney has proven he can kick the long ones even this late in his career. I’d like to keep them both, but I can’t see who would get cut to make room.
by HB-NOLA on Oct 7, 2009 3:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Morstead
no brainer, he keeps putting them in the end zone, none out-of-bounds he was big time v.s. the Jets, no chance for Leon W. Plus been good on punts too. I remember The Great Dane doing it consistently early in his career here. Carney’s been solid, inside 35yds, but i cross my fingers everytime, still haunted by ‘River City Relay" PAT ARRgghH,
kinda dont trust him. Carney would have no problem being picked up by another team. Hartley unproven, PAT fine, 30-35yd fine, but I don’t want his 1st 50 yarder to be a miss in a big game. Hopefully our Off. can keep the FG’s inside 35. Ques?: We drafted Morstead, is H artley a FA or Draft?
You think you know, and you don't know, and you never, ever will.-Jim Mora Sr.
by metryman on Oct 7, 2009 4:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
he was a free agent
that we picked up a little before halfway through the season i believe. he’s been solid so far
Superbowl bound!!!...I know! do you?! Go Saints!!
by skinnykinney on Oct 7, 2009 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Undrafted free agent. Originally signed by the Broncos, beat out by Matt Prater. Carney was unemployed when we signed him. I doubt anyone else picks him up, unless their kicker gets hurt. Or suspended for being a behavior medication fiend.
"Paralyze resistance with persistence" -Woody Hayes
by coldpizza on Oct 8, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We drafted a kicker last year
But it wasn’t Hartley. We wasted a 6th round pick on Taylor Mehlhaff, who turned out to be too bad to kick for us last year, which is like being too dumb to coach the Browns, or too senile to own the Raiders. I can only imagine how bad the practices were that he looked like the bad option.
by VAsaintsfan on Oct 8, 2009 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe
he was a free agent. Pretty positive we didn’t draft him because he didn’t come in until late last season.
by vicvega26 on Oct 7, 2009 9:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Think people
What none of you have said or realized is the fact that t morstead kicked field goals as a backup in college, quite well too! Don’t believe me? Check his profile. He does much better than cheesey hartley on kickoffs and we can keep him around for the ocassional long field goal. It’s def worth the risk and this way we avoid the carney curse! Wait and see, I might just be right…
by baghead on Oct 8, 2009 12:31 AM CDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
that's exactly what i just posted
on another thread. I wouldn’t give Morstead the keys to the car for the long FGs just yet. I think they’ll keep who they have now and try to work him in on long FGs during the offseason.
Superbowl bound!!!...I know! do you?! Go Saints!!
by skinnykinney on Oct 8, 2009 1:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather have two kickers
that can boom ‘em long. That way, if one goes down in a game, you have the other to fall back on. Hartley + Morstead > Carney + Morstead. Obviously, Carney + Hartley + Morstead is ideal, but you could dissect accuracy by distance all day and never arrive at the perfect combination, due to roster restraints. I’m fine with the two younger bucks. If and when the poop hits the fan, re-sign Carney, Matt Stover, Morten Andersen or any one of the countless other ageless chip shot artists to bail us out. Not like those guys are in high demand anyway.
"Paralyze resistance with persistence" -Woody Hayes
by coldpizza on Oct 8, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep Both
Lets have both for back up!!
by whodatone on Oct 8, 2009 10:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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by Saintsational on Oct 8, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs




















