Saints Key to Success is to Start Scoring Early
by Dave Cariello on Dec 21, 2009 6:00 AM CST
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PrintEveryone, including myself, has been up in arms about the play of the Saints defense in these last few games. Rightfully so, since they're beginning to look more like the defenses of recent years past. But there have also been a select few comments made by some readers who have also pointed out the recent struggles of the offense as well. From a statistical standpoint, they're correct; offensive production has dropped off. From an average of 425.9 yards per game during the first eleven games to only 396.6 in the last three. The effects have appeared on the scoreboard as well, with the Saints only averaging 25.3 points per game against their last three opponents compared with an impressive average of 37 points in the first eleven.
So I wanted to dig a little deeper and try to pinpoint the reason for this dramatic drop off. After thinking about it for a while and pouring over the stats, I feel I have discovered the answer is simple: The Saints need to get back to running the football. Once the number one rushing team in the entire league, the Saints have dropped down to the fifth spot.
Take a look at the how the Saints running attack these last three games compares with the success they were having during their more dominating days.
| Statistic | First 11 Games | Last 3 Games |
| Rush Attempts per Game | 31.8 | 21 |
| Rush Yards per Game | 150.5 | 71.6 |
| Average Yards per Carry | 4.7 | 3.6 |
| % of Total Plays | 51% | 32% |
That's quite a fall from grace. Not only are the Saints running the ball less effectively, they just straight up aren't doing it as much. But all this proves is that there is a problem, it doesn't provide an explanation.
Some answers are obvious. A banged up and tired offensive line. The absence of key players like Heath Evans and Jeremy Shockey. But probably the most important is the fact that the Saints just have not been able to gain an early lead on their opponents like they did so easily in September and October, allowing them to run a more balanced offense and be significantly less predictable. They have had to play from behind more and more often as the season carries on, forcing them to rely more heavily on the arm of Drew Brees in an effort to catch up.
In reality, the Saints' troubles with their quick striking offense has been a problem since their week seven matchup against the Dolphins, and not just these last three games. Check out how their first quarter scoring compares.
| Statistic | First 5 Games | Last 9 Games |
| Saints Average 1st Quarter Scoring | 9.6 | 2.6 |
| Opponents Average 1st Quarter Scoring | 2.5 | 9.5 |
If you'll notice, the tables have basically turned as the Saints have allowed teams to do to them, what they were doing to opponents earlier in the year.
Of course there are other important factors like turnovers and just plain luck included in the formula for on-field success but the Saints will certainly want to emphasize striking quickly as they close out the season and head into the playoffs. That will allow them once again to run a more balanced offense, making them that much more unpredictable and dangerous. With a comfortable lead the Saints offense has proven to be at their best and it's always equalled a death knell for opposing teams. Especially given the Saints outscore their opponents 139 - 34 in the fourth quarter.
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If we fix the 3rd down conversion problem we win the Superbowl.
Now, how can I get this message to SP???
I believe we were 1 for 7 against the Cowboys and that is what did us in. I don’t know how many high percentage 3rd down plays Sean has but I think he misplaced them Saturday night.
Now, let’s see a show of hands. How many of you think Mr. Payton knows more about this than I do?
Jeeeez, you’d think I pulled a gun! Ok, I’ll shut up.
Fat, dumb, and happy. Hell, two out of three ain't bad!
I Want To Die In My Sleep Like My Grandpa – Not Screaming and Yelling Like His Passengers.
by Just 'Nother Day on Dec 21, 2009 6:33 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Boom!!!
LOL
This is OUR year!! Yea, I said it. Who Dat!!!
by Big and Easy on Dec 21, 2009 8:23 AM CST up reply actions
the problem
Ok …
the problem is as clear as the nicks and cuts on the Saint’s faces.
We are banged up and it’s something that all teams have to go through during the course of an NFL season.
So far …
we’ve been fortunate and the team has persevered with a lot of blood sweat and tears …
by the grace of god …
and with a little guidance from Breesus.
Well …
it finally caught up with us against the blasted Cowboys of all teams.
Hat’s off to big D as they did play the best game of their season.
Still …
despite our injuries and subsequent poor play on Saturday …
we still had a chance to draw even late in the game. Small consolation I know …
but it is a fact.
So we can take some positives from the game and look forward with an optimistic outlook. Porter was good, Vilma was in on virtually every defensive stand, Bush looked to have great quickness prior to coming up lame and Drew finished with a respectable game despite the lack of support.
We dropped some balls, and the O line failed to provide our great QB with the usual time he is alloted and we looked terrible when Dallas ran the ball. In my opinion, this is our biggest issue to deal with and to fix pronto and prior to the playoffs.
Hopefully, Reggie’s injury is not serious and cornerstones Ellis, Greer, Shockey and the rest of our walking wounded will be ready to go for the playoffs!!!
I’m upset that the “perfect” season ended in such a nightmarish fashion …
but I’m still not giving up on my dream of seeing the Saints hoist the Lombardi trophy …
and I’m sure the players have not either.
Third down conversions and running the football. Gosh, to what do both of those two things pertain? Time of possession. Clock management. It’s what I’ve been preaching since Jump Street. Coming out of the two minute warning at the end of the first half IN HIS OPPONENT’S TERRITORY, Sean Payton took the exact same approach two weeks in a row. He attacked throught the air. WHY? Last week, he allowed the Falcons enough time to answer with a scoring drive of their own. Saturday night, even worse. Brees goes for the home run, get picked off AND fumbles the ball — all within the final two minutes of the half — leading to TWO Dallas possessions and yet another “shoulda never had the opportunity” FG for the competition. The fumble I can probably forgive, being that time is no longer our ally at that point. But even then, why is that? The Saints made their own bed by NOT CONTROLLING THE CLOCK. Even if the pass to Henderson is perfectly placed for a TD, the Cowboys — who have been marching up and down the field the entire first half — have nearly a full two minutes to work with, in order to render that six points meaningless in the big picture. A screen pass, a safe 8 or 9 yard strike to the tight end, etc., and the clock continues to tick. Even if Hartley misses a FG as time expires and the Saints walk away empty handed, so do the Cowboys. I realize that Shockey was out, so that cuts into the ball control personnel a bit, but it’s no reason to get away from a balanced attack. In fairness, examples like this are only a microcosm of Payton’s past brain farts, like running double reverses on 3rd and 1 or completely abandoning the running game on a cold, wet Soldier Field. Still, it’s a glowing ember of the common sense that is all-too-often lacking beneath that visor. It needs to be entinguished ASAP.
"I was not on the boat in question." -Darren Sharper
And don’t try to hand me that “it’s in his blood to for the jugular” song and dance, because he sure didn’t pull that crap when he was milking the clock against Philly in ’06. AND WON.
"I was not on the boat in question." -Darren Sharper
Coaching
By your logic, if you have the shot, you should just dump it off, or just run the ball and put the clock more so not in your favor. The two plays in question…both involving #19 are 90% of the time during this season, TDs. Brees had single coverage with no safety help on both plays; he under threw on the INT and Devery flat dropped the other. Single coverage dictated those plays. The plays were called because of what the Cowboys were giving them. But let’s not take those shots so we can milk the clock? Both of those scores (had they been executed) change the game completely.
I think this is a great write-up though Saintsational, but I’m not sure it’s solely an offensive issue. Running the ball this time of year is tough. Teams are beat up. And the Defense just hasn’t held up it’s side of the agreement these past 3 weeks. They are allowing teams to get the lead and forcing the Saints into predictable passing situations. And my god…get off the field on 3rd down. I love the balance…they are unbeatable when they are dictating the game. But when you go down 2 scores in the 1Q, it puts a lot of pressure on the offense to stop the bleeding. It forces you into predictable situations.
If you want to question the coaching, question the protection on those sacks where guys came free.
injuries folk"s
Sp needs to get the players back on the field and RIGHT NOW !! We have to many out and they stay out when they go out !! Lol , what would these dudes do if they woke up and they are in the 70’s or 60’s ? Back then , you played with injuries and with less pads and or equip. Now , if they trip over their on feet , that puts them on injury list for about 8 weeks. To me , the Saints are trying to rest players some kind of a way by leaving them on the bench (injuries list) way to long. We need Greer and Ellis back in right away. If not , and they return in the playoffs , they will be rusty and thats what we will hear all off season , that if they had played more we (would) have (probably) won a SB this year !!!!!Why is Bush always injured , Shockey, Gay, Lance Moore always out and hurt ? Will Bush ever play a complete game again ? Bush and L. Moore are almost always out , every year !! What happened to D. Sharper ? What changed so much that he gets burned as much as that # 27 rookie (Jenkins) on play after play ? What happened to stripping the balls ? What happened to the running offense ? Me , I think the answer to all these questions are simple…..THE MEDIA HYPE !!! If you look , after we KILLED the Giants , the media came to New Orleans. And since then , we are busy giving interviews and signing footballs and handing out (turkeys) and things and I think the Saints have altered the game plans for the (media) shows and highlights and crap. It’s always been said that some teams can handle success and some can’t. I think if the Saints would get back to where they was in the beginning..(playing like underdogs) they will win the SB. I don’t like the media hype , I thinks it’s eating up the Saints like a cancer or a disease of some kind. PS , what would have happened if (Henderson) would have caught that TD pass ? I kind of think we would have pulled it out again cvause remember , we only lost by one score after being down by three scores….WHO DAT
Thats why losing the game was the best thing that could have happened to y'all.
Cant blame injuries, everyone but everyone has them this time of year. Blame the turnovers. That was the difference in this game. The Saints have been playing sloppier and sloppier each week but were getting lucky. They needed a swift kick in the ass and got it. Be happy, they got it.
Dallas didnt play their best game of the year either. Thats Saints fans rationalzation. Dallas’s offense is ranked number 2. They average 21.3 points a game got 24. They give up 17.9 points per game and gave up 17. They do what they always do but this time the other team turned it over more.
KICK ASS every day!!!
This may be the rightest observation made all season.
It’s odd it hasn’t come up earlier, when everyone can remember how it took until the Miami game for the Saints not to score a touchdown on the opening drive, but they basically haven’t done it since then. The announcers even brought up the Saints’ first-quarter scoring disparity woes during the Dallas game. Everyone who watches all the Saints’ games could tell you “it didn’t used to be like that”, but I guess that’s when the real danger of always winning rears it’s head. Everyone can say,“what problem? They won, didn’t they?”
Still, until these past three games, Payton was still running almost as much as passing. I think injuries have limited his trust in his running game again. I’m pretty certain there is something wrong at the O-line, or the Cowboys’ front seven really is that good. I’m certain it’s not. In fact, I think Dallas’ defense is a carbon copy of Miami’s. Similar first-half results, but seemingly no halftime adjustments. Anyway, his playcalling has gotten progressively more unimaginative over the last few weeks, and he just won’t try more than one run per set of downs anymore. And almost all of his runs are off weak tackle, it seems. I guess the other two runs would be variation-on-reverse, and screen. I don’t know exactly what happened to the O-line, but Carl Nicks seems to be the only run blocker Payton trusts. And I know Evans is gone, and Shockey was sidelined, but there are plenty of “next guys up”, and run blocking isn’t exactly the most complicated job in the NFL. I just don’t get the problem, but it’s clear as day that it’s there.
"Think about that statement and all its implications for a second. The New England Patriots did not play up to the level of the New Orleans Saints." -Pat Yasinskas
I hate to burst anybody's bubble, but go back and look at the NYJ game.
The offenses struggles are not new.
WHODAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dynasty - 2009 - ???? (11/8/09)
"Well!" said Puddleglum, rubbing his hands together, "This is just what I needed. If these chaps don't teach me to take a serious view of life, I don't know what will."
I should probably clarify
The OFFENSE didn’t score anything but a field goal until the last quarter!
WHODAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dynasty - 2009 - ???? (11/8/09)
"Well!" said Puddleglum, rubbing his hands together, "This is just what I needed. If these chaps don't teach me to take a serious view of life, I don't know what will."
Saintsation, I dont have time to look this up but, is the decrease in yards
have any thing to do with less offensive possessions.
The key to playing the Saints is to shorten the game. Chew up the clock and run the ball. You just dont get in a shootout with a gunslinger. I bet the Saints had an average of 1 or 2 more offensive series a game earlier in the year.
The Saints have actually been the most balanced team all year. They got down early to us and got away from the run almost by neccessity.
The Saints are a verticle passing team which means holding on to the ball .5 longer in the pocket. I think against a team with a good pass rush like us he should have worked the shorter passing game more. I think Shockey not being there was a pretty big blow and not gameplanning more short stuff.
KICK ASS every day!!!
It’s not a matter of less possessions, it’s a matter of less snaps. Or rather, less TIME of possession. In a game of no turnovers, two teams are bound to have an equal (or very close to equal) number of possessions. The play count can vary greatly though, depending on the offensive efficiency (aka defensive ineptitude) of both teams in question.
"I was not on the boat in question." -Darren Sharper
“They got down early to us and got away from the run almost by neccessity.”
The necessity only existed because we couldn’t stop the Cowboys offense. Even 30 minutes is more than enough time to run a balanced attack and recover from a two score lead at halftime. Hell, if they take a more conservative approach at the 32 minute mark, it’s likely a four point midway deficit. Seven at most. It’s poor coaching, bottom line. If Pierre Thomas wasn’t running the ball like the friggin Tazmanian Devil, I might cite lack of effectiveness as a reason for the abandonment. Definitely not the case.
"I was not on the boat in question." -Darren Sharper
Not true. If you shorten the game by chewing up the clock your offense has less possessions.
Not less posessions than your opponent but less possessions than you had against Miami or Philly. Against Philly and Giants the Saints had 12 offensive possessions. Against Dallas it had 10.
I dont think time has anything to do with it. Example. If the Boys have 6, seven minute drives and kick FGs and the Saints have 6, three minute drives and score TDs the score is 42 to 18 but the Cowboys held the ball 42 minutes to the Saints 18 minutes. Both had the ball 6 times.
In a game where each team holds the ball an average 3 minutes their are 20 drives. If each team holds the ball an average of 6 minutes their are 10 drives. Time consuming drives give the offenses less chances.
KICK ASS every day!!!
Correct. You’re giving both teams less possessions; your own and your opponent’s. Which is fine, as long as you’re scoring more efficiently than your opponent. The efficiency is the crux, no matter if you’re being afforded one possession each in a game or twenty possessions each. The point being that if both teams are clicking on all cylinders and scoring TDs each time out, you’re allowing your opponent less time to accomplish what you accomplished. Ultimately (and I’ll use your example of six each), you’ll have put 42 points on the board over the course of 42 minutes. Barring OT, your opponent then has 18 cumulative minutes to score 42 points. Who’s more likely to turn the ball over? The team casually dinking and dunking their way down the field, or the team hellbent on getting the ball in the end zone on what averages to be 3 minute drives (likely even less on the final drive, as they wouldn’t have had the foresight to expedite their prior five).
"I was not on the boat in question." -Darren Sharper
I was actually saying the team with 7 minute drives was getting FGs(saints opponents)
The Saints were the team with 3 minute drives but getting 7points. I was saying this because of how potent the Saints offense is. When Brees is on the Saints offense will blow away anyone elses offense.
I was just trying to show the way teams have allowed themselves a chance to be in games with you guys. Its also what the Rams, Falcons, and Carolina did to at least be in the game and have some chance. The Cowboys have the 2nd rated offense and I want no part of a shootout with you guys.
KICK ASS every day!!!
As good as the Saints offense is, they don’t score every time they have the ball. And even if they did, their defense isn’t anything particularly special to guarantee that their opponents don’t do the same. It’s hit or miss at some level, just as it is for all 32 teams in the league. What you’re saying is true, you CAN win games by flying down the field and scoring TDs. The key is scoring TDs, though. Or limiting your opponent to FGs. Or to three and outs. Not the flying part. Flying just increases your odds of making a mistake and allows your opponent more opportunities to catch up. Case in point, had all of Dallas’s 4th quarter drives been just as effective as their seven minute drive to start the 3rd quarter, it wouldn’t have mattered if they had scored or not. We wouldn’t have had enough time to score 14 points, much less 21. Obviously, a TD or a FG would have been even more beneficial, but even another time consuming drive or two resulting in missed chip shot FGs would have iced it. They had been throwing dirt on us since 7:20pm. It just took us three hours to give up the ghost.
"I was not on the boat in question." -Darren Sharper
LOL! Im still miffed at Roy Williams from dropping that 3rd down pass in the 4th.
Thats another 1.5 minutes off the clock.
KICK ASS every day!!!
Retool and Refocus
That’s something a loss permits you to do. Game film on the Saints is pretty extensive this season and now a formula for beating the Saints is out for everyone to see. It’s an extremely simple formula: don’t give Drew Brees time to beat you. The offensive line did not perform up to expectations and Brees had a lot of trouble making anything happen. Even Roger Staubach would have had problems winning with the protection Brees had on Saturday.
Injuries have definitely played a role, but this defense also gave Tom Brady fits. Tony Romo is not as good as Brady, so what happened in those three weeks? Washington and Atlanta happened. Those teams were not good enough to finish the job against the Saints, but it was 120 minutes of game film and with their jobs on the lines, do you think Phillips and company were going to ignore it? Of course not. It’s hard to learn from your mistakes when they don’t cost you anything, but you have to learn really fast when things go wrong.
1) The Saints need to score. Drew Brees was finally exploiting the Dallas defense in the 4th, but it was too little too late. The defense did not help, but Brees had trouble doing a lot in this game for a number of reasons. If Devery Henderson had not dropped a pass, who knows what would have happened? Being undefeated is a curse all by itself, which is something the Colts are bound to find out.
2) The defense needs to tighten up. Game film from the loss will go a long way towards bringing heads back to earth in New Orleans. The pressure of being undefeated is gone. The Saints have one loss. Where did things go wrong? The defense had no answer for Tony Romo and the Dallas Cowboys. I once again tip my hat to Romo, who probably gets a lot of undeserved criticism. It’s also extremely hard to come back if you give up 14 points to start the game. The defense has not done its job on opening drives, but I attribute that to teams wanting to jump ahead early so they don’t have to deal with the Saints. Injuries have not helped, but this defense needs to clamp down on opening drives. This has really put a lot of pressure on the offense.
The bright side is that New Orleans has the opportunity to refocus against Tampa Bay next week. They can work on their problems and get ready for the postseason. Carolina gave us trouble earlier in the season at the Dome and they’re no pushover. They manhandled Minnesota last night and we saw exactly how they did it. They forced Favre to win the game and they ran the ball extremely well. That’s looking ahead, but the Saints need to refocus on their running game and protect Drew Brees a lot better. There’s no reason Drew Brees should have two fumbles in one game. He’s better than that.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Saintsational, if the Saints beat the Bucs and lock up homefield throughout, I’d like you to revisit the play ‘em vs rest ’em debate, if you don’t mind. I mean, being that we’d essentially be playing for nothing aside from momentum at that point. With the undefeated season / gunning for history angle now on the shelf, I’d be interested in seeing how much opinions differ on that topic. That DID seem to be one of the most prevalent reasons given for pinning our ears back last time we covered it, no?
"I was not on the boat in question." -Darren Sharper
We can put it to a vote
personally, I’d still like to see the healthy starters play a half. Everyone can rest with the bye week, that’s what it’s for.
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by Dave Cariello on Dec 21, 2009 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
If they beat Tampa
I’d say they should treat it like the second or third preseason game. The only problem is you can’t carry as many active players as you can in the preseason game so you’re only resting select players.
Agreed. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone blame a season opening loss on their team’s failure to play starters in the last preseason game. I’d personally like to see Chase Daniel start the Panthers game. Primarily because I don’t want Brunell to get hurt going into the playoffs, but also because I think it would give the team a tremendous boost of confidence, if we happened to beat Carolina using our third string QB. A loss and we have that same built-in alibi. Kind of a nothing-to-lose situation, as it should be in a meaningless game. On top of which, it’s a road game, so it’s not like you’d be cheating Saints season ticket holders out of anything. If you’re not interested in seeing how Daniel does, turn off the TV. Go have a picnic with the family. Build a snowman. Something.
"I was not on the boat in question." -Darren Sharper
Im worried about the Saints maybe being flat next week.
I know that seems a little far fetched after losing. You would think the would be angry(and very well may be) but I also know and saw how let down they felt missing out on perfection. You could tell how much they wanted to do this for the City and the fans. The fans were there early partying. All the local stations were covering the the Stadium by 3pm and all the zany fans in costumes rooting and praising their team. The superdome was stoked and as loud as I ever heard on Tv before a game(except post Katrina) and the Saints went out an laid an egg at home.
Im worried about them having a hangover from this. I think they will beat TB but I dont know if they are going to look sharp doing it. If they struggle some or the O doesnt seem to be back in Sync, I think they should play everyone and get the offense clicking again. They have a first round bye to get rested. They need to be playing their best ball when the playoffs start. I dont like the thought of turning it back on in January. Turn it on now!
KICK ASS every day!!!
A bye week isn’t enough time for a snapped femur to heal. That’s the kind of thing I’m worried about.
"I was not on the boat in question." -Darren Sharper
It happened to us a couple of years ago when we were 13-3 clinched a 1st round by early.
We started playing bad at the end of the year(another Dec collapse but we clinched early and rested guys) We had the bye and then tried to turn it back on against the Giants. We played better than we did in Dec. but just not good enough to beat a playoff team destined to win the SB.(loss still stings to this day) I just wished we realized we needed to get back in sync and played to win that last game or 2.
I fear this happens to the Saints. Dont get me wrong, I want to beat yall but if it isnt us I want it to be the Saints. They need to renew their sense of urgency and hunger.
That was the long version of I agree with you.
KICK ASS every day!!!
John Madden would be proud
of how you practically quoted him throughout your title and ensuing post. Of course you have to score more points to win games, Herm Jr.
The Saints cannot be as effective/dominate as we know they can because of one simple reason that circumvents any other silly analysis you or anyone else can offer – injuries.
A healthy Saints team is an unbeatable Saints team. As banged up as they are right now, I don’t know how far they can go. But I still believe, and I’ll always support them.
Fight on boys, and bring us home the Lombardi. We know you can.
Buffalo?
We got creamed the whole game and still came out smelling like thankgiving dinner! That game is and should be the blue print that any team uses.
by Saintsfan4life on Dec 21, 2009 11:43 AM CST reply actions
Play Selection!
One of our main problems falls square on SP’s shoulders. Play selection! After 14 weeks the Saints are becoming predictable. The gimmick plays are starting to catch us. The reverses, the no gain on 1st down. There is too much film on us now to keep trying these gimmick plays esp. early in the game. We need to come out on the 1st drive and do what we do best, run Bell and Thomas and throw with Brees. Score on the 1st drive, apply pressure, then in the 3rd and 4th quarter spice it up with the other stuff. In the past the Saints needed those type plays because they masked the fact that we couldn’t run the ball. We don’t need it anymore! I understand that the first 10 – 15 plays of the game are scripted to see how the defense responds for the rest of the game in those situations, but there needs to be more focus on actually using productive plays esp. early in the game and put our best against their best and not worry so much on how does the defense play this situation that might only happen once more in the game. I’ll take our best against their best any day.
by DieHardSaintsFan on Dec 21, 2009 12:16 PM CST reply actions
is there anyway to research when we rush the ball the most (by quarter)?
I think looking at that breakdown by game may be helpful…
"In the end, the bread was in the pudding." -- Bobby McCray
Shop as usual, and avoid panic buying.
by Hans Petersen on Dec 21, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
GREAT analysis SAINTSNATION - the lack of running game (# of carries and yardage) is killing us right now
When was the last time a Sean Payton-led Saints team opened a game with three drives that went for two 3-and-outs and one 4-and-out? Punting on three straight drives to start a game? OUCH
And with Ware and the pass rush bringing such heat to Brees, why didn’t they give Bushrod more help, especially on that last drive? Tony Dungy kept saying on Football Night in America, “If the Saints knew DaMarcus Ware was going to play, they would have plays on the sheet that give the LT extra help with a TE or RB to chip Ware. So, they did not plan for Ware to be in this game.” OK. I disagree, but whatever. Anyway, even if that is the case, how hard is it for Brees to shift the RB over as they line up once he sees where Ware is, especially since he was having such a good game?
3 first quarter punts, two sack/fumbles and an INT, and no TDs until the 4th Q. That is terrible offensive production no matter the reason (good defense playing well, lack of commitment to the running game, whatever…)
Let’s get it cleaned up, get our guys healthy, and smack the Bucs around next week.
"In the end, the bread was in the pudding." -- Bobby McCray
Shop as usual, and avoid panic buying.
turnovers
how many games has the saints won this year where their opponents did NOT fumble or throw a INT??
In 2009, Saints' opponents don't do that.
So, probably zero, or one. I honestly don’t remember a game this year with no turnovers by opponents.
"Think about that statement and all its implications for a second. The New England Patriots did not play up to the level of the New Orleans Saints." -Pat Yasinskas
WHY DOES NO ONE UNDERSTAND
When we were running the ball effectively the first 9 games or whatever, our pass was setting up our run. Opposing defenses game plan all week on what to do, and the main focus for teams that didn’t have enough game film was that Brees was killing teams, so then what plan should defenses implement, Stop Brees, hence the run game works. However, now there was film on our Running attacks and teams subsequently focused on stopping that. Have you not been watching the past 5-6 games where a majority of our rushes are under 4 yards. Thats because teams have film to stop our rushers. Its also because RARELY do we get first downs on 1st and 2nd down. We always make our series 1st, 2nd, 3rd. Because Brees throws before the sticks alot. You cant throw the ball to get 2nd and 5 everytime, because one drop ruins the whole rhythm. We are always stuck in a 3rd and short and that is obvious for defenses to stop. Plug up the middle. So the problem is, design longer pass patterns on 1st down instead of 4-6 yards. This way we move the ball and not put pressure on our offense on 3rd downs as much.
This is usually how our first series go,
1st 10 – Throw to shockey/thomas in the RT/LF center for 4-5 yards. Look at each other like wtf- how did our powerful offense just go 3 and out.
2nd n 5 – Run Thomas for 3 yards
3rd n 3 – Run Bell for 2 yards
4th n 1
This formula puts too much pressure on our offense to convert 3rd downs. Instead try to get first downs on 1st and 2nd down. Design longer curls, outs, comebacks.
Plus i think all the comeback wins of previous weeks were giving us a false sense of we can “turn it on whenever we want.” No real sense of emergency being down 14-17 points. Thats enough to give other coaches heart attacks. But now we keep with our game plan even though its not working the whole first half, yes Peyton makes good 2nd half adjustments, but how about some adjustments from series to series. This loss will serve us much better than coming back from behind and winning cuz of “fate.” Gimme FG misses cannot be relied upon by the most dangerous offense in the league. Peyton step your game up and stop the "if it aint broke, don’t fix it " attitude. Score on the first drive and i swear we will win every game, thats the key.
There's a button to do that
or an HTML tag. You likely inadvertently pushed the button(the "S: with a line through it).
"Think about that statement and all its implications for a second. The New England Patriots did not play up to the level of the New Orleans Saints." -Pat Yasinskas
Have you not been watching the past 5-6 games where a majority of our rushes are under 4 yards.
This is almost a universal truth in all of pro football. A successful running team averages around 4 or 5 yards per carry. The best average 6. Those averages come from a long series of 2 to 5 yard carries, and 1 or 2 20+ yards carries. The moral: you have to commit to the run to have success running. Just because PT isn’t breaking off 12 yards a clip doesn’t in any way prove the running game isn’t working. And removing 10 to 15 rushing attempts per game doesn’t prove it either.
I think abandoning the playcalling formula of the first half of the season has injured the running game. Run on 1st, 2nd, and/or 3rd down, complete a series of short/intermediate passes, take a measured number of shots downfield. That worked. The gameplan of the past few games seems very transparent. It certainly looked that way against Dallas. 1st) intermediate pass. 2nd) run off left tackle. 3rd) intermediate pass. 4th) punt. The only real variation came in the fourth quarter. That variation was shotgun/empty back or shotgun/single back.
"Think about that statement and all its implications for a second. The New England Patriots did not play up to the level of the New Orleans Saints." -Pat Yasinskas
we had 13 rushes and 45 passes in that game
My, my. Shades of 2008.
"In the end, the bread was in the pudding." -- Bobby McCray
Shop as usual, and avoid panic buying.
by Hans Petersen on Dec 21, 2009 1:23 PM CST up reply actions
Realize also
that we had a lot more rushes in the beginning of season because we were up by 30 pts most of the time and running clock in the second half. Thats where a lot of our rushes came, like Philly game. However when we don’t score on the first couple of drives we turn to the passing game. Our team thrived on the pass setting up the run, when LB’s and DB’s are expecting passes its easy to run. Drop balls and sacks absolutely kill our types of offense, who rely heavily on all 3-4 downs to make a first. I agree with coldpizza, we need to start every game with a long, methodical, dink and dunk drive with no drops please. If we do this it will set the tempo for the rest of the game and keep defenses guessing next series.
I have actually done a little research on that and the Saints have been balanced overall.
They havent padded their rushing stats with late game leads. The fact is Buffalo and the Jets sold out to stop the pass earlier in the season and the running game carried them to victory. Thats what I mean by balanced. The ability to do both. The Saints can. I would just throw away Saturday nights game. Every one has a stinker or 2.
Earlier in the year I was fearing the Saints for my CBoys. I was trying to rationalize that they werent that good. One of my pet peeves is that in the playoffs their are a lot of good Ds who can take away what the other teams offense does good and make them beat you with the other. I was thinking the Saints were a pass only team and in the playoffs they would go down because they werent run tough. I found out that was simply not the truth. The Saints have 2 jack hammers and a Home run threat. That they could beat you with the run or pass just pick your poison. In the past SP would give up a little to early on the run but not this year.
Trouble this past week is the Boys got good pressure with 3 and 4 man rushes. They could play the run first but still get good pressure if it was a pass. Then you get down 14 early and you look to pass more.
The problem from my view isnt with play selection but rather execution. Your line got dominated. We went into a prevent type D late in the game to burn some time up and you put together some drives but near the end went back with our regular D and stiffled you on the last 2 drives.
You guys simply didnt execute like you normally do. Maybe your struggling or maybe our DC called a better game than your OC. Not sure but you did leave some play/points on the field.
KICK ASS every day!!!
I don't agree with your analysis of our first series
It has seemed to be the Saints have passed all three times on their first series the last few games.
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by Dave Cariello on Dec 21, 2009 2:53 PM CST up reply actions
Just looked up our first drives for last 4 games...
DALLAS
Pass – Bush
Pass – Wendy’s
Pass – Wendy’s
PUNT
ATLANTA
PT rush
Pass – Shockey
Pass – Colston
Pass – PT
PT rush
Pass – Bush
Pass – Incomplete
FG
WASHINGTON
Pass – PT
PT rush
Pass – Incomplete
Pass – PT
PUNT
NEW ENGLAND
Pass – Devery
Pass – Marques
Pass – PT
PT rush
Bell rush
Pass – incomplete
PT rush
FG
"In the end, the bread was in the pudding." -- Bobby McCray
Shop as usual, and avoid panic buying.
by Hans Petersen on Dec 21, 2009 3:13 PM CST up reply actions
In fact, here is how it breaks down on the Saints first series...
Dallas – Pass, Pass, Pass, Punt
Atlanta – Run, Pass, Pass, Pass, Run, Pass, Pass, FG
Washington – Pass, Run, Pass, Pass, Punt
New England – Pass, Pass, Run, Run, Pass, Run, FG
Tampa Bay- Run, Pass, Pass, Run, Run, Punt
St. Louis – Run, Run, Run, INT
Panthers – Pass, Pass, Pass, Punt
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by Dave Cariello on Dec 21, 2009 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
beat me by a few minutes, Andrew - nice work
"In the end, the bread was in the pudding." -- Bobby McCray
Shop as usual, and avoid panic buying.
by Hans Petersen on Dec 21, 2009 3:14 PM CST up reply actions
your layout's better, too, and you go back further than I did - good job
"In the end, the bread was in the pudding." -- Bobby McCray
Shop as usual, and avoid panic buying.
by Hans Petersen on Dec 21, 2009 3:15 PM CST up reply actions
3-4 defenses
is it just a coincidence or our o-line struggles against 3-4 defenses,this year we played against 3 teams that uses this type of Defense,Miami,New England and Dallas, against Miami, Brees was sacked 5 times, patriots sacked him once,and dallas got 4 sacks, therefore, our o-line surender an avg of 3.3 sacks per game against 3-4 defenses and just 0.9 per game against 4-3 defenses and as Tyreek said Drop Balls and sacks kills our type of offense.
Those stats are why several years ago(maybe 2002) their were three 3-4 D and now their are over 10.
You dont know if the 4th rusher is the ROLB or the LOLB. Its easier to zone blitz and its suppose to be better against the run. Throw in the fact that DE(pass rushers) in college are all 250-265 pounds and you dont have the size to hold up on the line in the pros. Put them at OLB in the 3-4 and voila.
If its any consolation we run the 3-4 and our offense struggles against it too. See our GB, Denver, Pitt games.
KICK ASS every day!!!
Coaching
that’s who I blame it on. Payton being way way too imbalanced from the very start of the game. We gave up 7, had a 3 and out then they scored again. Payton got scared and ask Brees to do something he hasn’t had to do this year really…win a shootout for us. We should’ve been running the ball still even after being down 14. Also, Reggie rips off 29 yards on his 1 carry and immediately is pulled? Why? IDK! I can’t understand it anymore. It’s about the hot hand but whenever Reggie has the hot hand…well we can’t play him for whatever reason. I know he got hurt but that was later on in the game and he could’ve come back in. Did anyone really see any PA passes either? I saw one but it was where Ware came completely unblocked and tore Brees a new one. Reggie also looked fine to come back into the game. And on defense!!! wow. We blitzed every 3rd down that I can remember. Mix it up some for christ’s sake! The playcalling on both sides of the ball were just horrendous imo. That’s one of the reason’s we lost this game.
Superbowl bound!!!...I know! do you?! Go Saints!!
in a nutshell it is coaching...
Payton needs to just go back to being balanced and keep the defense guessing. Well, coaching and injuries. I honestly thing that injuries have been our biggest problem as far as the defense goes. Look for us to get some points with the D against the Bucs. And I reckon that come playoff time with a bye week. we’ll be nice and healthy to pick apart anybody!
Don't worry I got your back cuz...
This would work
You know when Brees is in the shotgun and the defense is waiting for him to throw the bomb?
Draw Plays!! Dallas and a couple of other teams killed us on draw plaws.
We need to do draw plays, and they work.
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