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The Source of Our Woes: Decline in Run Frequency and Scheme - an Analysis


An analysis of the Saints offensive breakdown the last four weeks in the context of the success and failures of the run/pass balance and general run schemes the last four seasons.

Star-divide


Yes, there is a personnel issue. Our stellar secondary has been shredded with injuries and our backup LBs are far from adequate - the primary offensive success of every team since Washington has come from inundating throws at Jenkins and running straight at Dunbar, then Evans, then Casillas. Aside from that, multiple nagging injuries have plagued us each game, though we have been lucky to be free from any major injuries since the season began.

Yes, they have seemed to play with less urgency.

But the most glaring issue the last four games since our romp of the Patriots is the one that hasn't been covered enough and certainly not in enough depth: we've stopped our successful running attack and the balance it creates. In the first three drives in Sunday’s loss to Tampa Bay we ran the ball 13 times for 91 yards (avg. 7 yds/carry) using quick-hitting traps and cross-blocks which opened up holes in the line and down the field in order to pass 10 times for 98 yards (avg. 9.8 yds/pass attempt) and go ahead 17-0. Then we completely shifted our gameplan. In the rest of the game (6 drives without a score) we ran the ball only 10 times total, using slow-developing, sumo-wrestle push "power" running  for 33 yards (avg. 3.3 yds/carry - including one 19 yd gain by Hamilton, otherwise 9 rushes for 14 yds, avg. 1.56 yds/carry). In the meantime we passed an astonishing 27 times for 152 yards (5.6 yds/pass attempt). Let me emphasize that: ahead 17-0, we stopped running let alone calling run plays that have been working all year, put in our fourth string back, and passed nearly 3 times as much as ran. No more excuse that we "had to pass playing from behind" garbage we heard the previous 3 weeks when our balance first went out of wack.

In the 2006 regular season the Saints ran 472 times (44.9%) and passed 580 (55.1 % pass) to finish with a 10-6 record and made it to the NFC Championship. In 2007: 392 run (37.5%), 652 pass (62.5%) to go 7-9. In 2008: 398 run (38.5%), 636 pass (61.5%) to go 8–8. The pattern is clear - more balance correlated to more victories, and our pass-happy “#1 ranked” offense failed to make the playoffs two years in a row. Entering 2009 with his job on the line, Payton was forced to recognize that he could not simply rely on the pass, and opened his mind and scheme to establishing the run. I believe this change was the most significant factor in our unprecedented and historic success this season. In the first 11 games of this season, we ran the ball 373 times and passed 380. In three games of particular note -- v. Patriots: 26 run, 23 pass; v. NYGiants: 40 run, 30 pass; v. NYJets: 32 run, 32 pass. Perhaps the most telling game for so many reasons, but especially the significance of establishing the run and a rebuttal of the myth that it is necessary to pass while behind -- v MIA: 27 run v. 38 pass but PAY ATTENTION -- in the first 10 drives of the game (albeit including the necessarily pass-heavy 2 min. offense to end the first half with a TD using 2 run, 7 pass): 10 run, 32 pass. As we then arguably made the greatest comeback in Saints history in the rest of the game: 17 run, 10 pass. (NOTE: I'm not sure why it says 38 total pass attempts in the box score when the play-by-play shows 42.) However, in the last four games -- the closest two wins of the season and the first two losses -- we passed more than twice as much as ran (total 63 run, 135 pass; v. Wash: 24 run, 49 pass; v. Atl: 26 run, 41 pass; v. Dal: 13 run, 45 pass).
                   
It is important to add, though, that this is not simply about the number of runs, but about the SCHEME. Going back to his coaching days in Dallas, Payton has been in love with a power running game. (For a clip which reveals a lot about his schematic point of view, watch him oooh and aaah about the size and power of the Dallas running game this year in the clip from his show  entitled “Episode 15: Payton’s Plan” http://www.theseanpaytonshow.com/vg.html). On “The Final Play,” after the Dec. 6 Washington game, former Saints LB and should-be-hall-of-famer Rickey Jackson was asked why the Saints couldn't run against the Redskins. He replied something to the effect of "Well, the Redskins have the big strong money makers on the line to fight heads up with the Saints blockers...because the Saints don't have a speed running game. Theirs is a power running game... and they start laterally in their own backfield letting the big men line up their blocks so penetration into their backfield can stop them from getting started. They don't have a speed running game...that's why they like a Deuce instead of a Reggie.” What Rickey called a power run scheme I call a slow-developing, one-on-one sumo-wrestling, push-push-push scheme. It relies on creases to develop that a back has to patiently wait for and then weave through as bodies fly in various directions. What Rickey called a speed running game I call a quick-opening, leverage blocking scheme that uses traps, cross-blocks, counters and runs to the backside to give the O-line immediate leverage points and angles against D-linemen in order to rip quick-opening holes immediately at the line of scrimmage rather than seams and creases amongst a mass of bodies.

The past three years have been dominated by the sumo-wrestling scheme, which has been a failure. Even if you go back to Deuce’s 1000-yard year in 2006, and definitely Pierre each of his seasons, you will find that in the last four seasons the great majority of successful run plays have come off of quick-hole-openers and counters rather than the slow-developing, sumo-wrestling, push-push-push for three yards. So all Spring and Summer I repeatedly asked one question of all the Times Picayune and other sports press with access to coaches and practices - was Payton adjusting the run scheme?  Lo and behold, he did - he changed everything this year. Or almost. From the beginning, Payton not only committed to run more, but to run more effectively; that is, to adjust his scheme and use a great deal more quick-hole-opening plays. He has still used too many stubborn sumo plays in my opinion, but nonetheless I believe this expansion of an effective scheme to fit our players rather than trying to force our players to fit an ineffective scheme has been THE decisive factor in the Saints running success this season - which has naturally opened up the pass game for less frequent but more effective success. I have made an effort all season to track each run play each game (both watching the game and often reviewing it on tivo), and by my own estimate the plays which have used the sumo-wrestling scheme has accounted for an avg. of 2-3 yds/carry, while the quick-hitting scheme plays have averaged around 6-7 yds/carry.

Last Sunday, after our first three drives (which used quick-openers and leverage blocking to get 91 yards on 13 carries), Payton not only called a mere 10 run-plays, but almost every run call was a fall back to the old sumo-pushing scheme. He put in our fourth string running back to simply eat clock (Hamilton ran 7 times for 21 yards - 6 of them for a total of 2 yards). I do not doubt Sean Payton’s offensive brilliance, which far exceeds any pinkynail’s worth of football knowledge I cling to. But I am really starting to wonder whether he has done what I've done in my naive fandom with TIVO each game - go back and simply watch each run play that has succeeded and each run play that has failed and tally up which works for us and which fails. As we all saw and felt last Sunday, this scheme deflates everyone - it wears out the O-Line and backs, drains energy and momentum, and doesn’t merely eat up clock - it eats up production. We stall consistently when we run this way. We lose our sense of urgency. In the last four weeks, the revival of the 2007-2008 offensive scheme.

If we are going to win the way we won the first 11 games, we are going to have to start running the way we ran the first 11 games. We must run as much if not more than pass, and we must use a quick-opening, leverage blocking run scheme. Finally, Payton should call many more run plays to the running back with the best yard/carry average on our team, Reggie Bush.

On a slight sidenote, it has driven me crazy to hear the same blabber bashing Reggie Bush, critiquing him for failing to be patient as well as for dancing in the backfield too much (which is it?), and of course the myth that he couldn’t “run between the tackles.” Its not only because I am a fan of Bush and believe he has the talent (and attitude) to be one of the great running-backs in the league, but also because it simply hurts my sense of justice to hear so many people misplacing their rabid critiques, and bad-mouthing someone not only for something that is totally out of his control but also for the very talents that are being wasted - especially someone admired by his teammates for citizenship and for consistently being one of the hardest workers on the team,. As Rickey put it, this scheme is not designed for Reggie Bush. Remember how much credit Gregg Williams has gotten from players and the press for playing to his players gifts rather than our past defensive coach who forced players to fit his scheme? When the Titans have a player with the speed of Chris Johnson, they do not demand him to run slow-developing power-run schemes - they take advantage of his speed to use quick-hitters (how many times has the ball seemed to have barely been snapped when he seems to be through the gates and 85 yards down the field?), duh! So why has Sean Payton for four years taken one of the quickest and most explosive speed runners in the league - whom Rex Ryan called the most dangerous player he’s faced - and stubbornly demanded that he “slow down,” “be patient,” “stop dancing” in order to fit a scheme that has consistently failed no matter who runs the ball? In an era that obsesses with individuals rather than the collective design of schemes, it is typical and unjust blabber to have spent so much energy criticizing Reggie for failing to adjust to Payton’s scheme instead of vice-versa.

Finally, though, it should be noted that Reggie Bush is now leading the Saints in avg yds/carry at 5.5 - equivalent to the 4th best in the league. But why is he not on the ESPN stats page for league leaders? Because “To qualify, a player must have at least 6.25 attempts per team's games played.” In 15 games Payton has only run Reggie 65 times, or 4.3x/game. Though Payton has barely given Reggie the ball in the backfield this year, the quick openers he has gotten have made a great difference to his effectiveness.  To succeed in the playoffs, especially with Pierre hurt right now, Coach Payton should surprise the defensive expectations of our opponents by unleashing our most explosive big-play talent. Give Reggie 10+ carries a game. As long as its with leverage blocking scheme to open quick holes with cross-blocks, traps, counters and runs to the backside, it doesn’t matter if the hole is on the outside or between the tackles, it will really screw up the gameplans of our opponents and Reggie - and the team - will run with success.

This FanPost was written by a reader and member of Canal Street Chronicles. It does not necessarily reflect the views of CSC and its staff or editors.

Comment 45 comments  |  12 recs  | 

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great post

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by Dave Cariello on Dec 29, 2009 2:33 PM CST reply actions  

GREAT POST!!

you did your homework and it provided great insight. I think your football knowlege is well grounded and I think you came to some excellent conclusions. I hope Payton does utilize the types of plays you suggest and Reggie gets more opportunities; as long as Payton strives to keep the balance, he should be able to do all that and it’s a good recipe for success.

"I think we agree, the past is over" - George W Bush
"The greatest enemy of knowlege is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge" Stephen Hawking

by Philinwood on Dec 29, 2009 3:42 PM CST reply actions  

I still have to mention this though...

perhaps the stats are a little skewed. It may appear that the Saints win when they are more balanced, but perhaps it appears more balanced because they’re already winning.

I think a better indicator – and I have no way of getting these numbers – would be to see if running the ball more often in the FIRST HALF led to victory more often. Because the Saints could be getting nice sized leads by passing, then just running the ball later in the game to kill clock and wear down defenses.

Just throwin’ it out there.

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by Dave Cariello on Dec 29, 2009 3:57 PM CST reply actions  

I would suggest that an effective run game pulls the safeties and linebackers up, leaving Drew free to hit those 30- and 40-yarders to Henderson, Meachem, and Colston that struck fear into the rest of the league for more than half the season. We’re really not a dink-and-dunk, Bill Walsh sort of team…we’re more of an old AFL-style, rush the ball effectively and throw vertically kind of team. Which is much more to my liking, and virtually unstoppable when you have the personnel and scheme to pull it off. Which we had. Earlier. Now?

I think the Oysterman was right before the season, and he’s still right. I wish he’d mention the black pants, though.

BURN THE BLACK PANTS!!!

by MtnExile on Dec 29, 2009 8:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed

BURN THE BLACK PANTS.
Bring back the gold, baby.

by oystershuck on Dec 30, 2009 12:46 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm beginning to think...

That Sean Payton is the only person who doesn’t think Reggie should be utilized more and is also the only person who likes the black pants.

by Drew-Dat on Dec 30, 2009 5:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Not trying to rain on your parade, but I agree with Saintsational

Oysterman,
Impressive analysis. I think you might be right in regards to the scheme and types of runs called. However, overall, I think you have merely found a correlation between running and winning, not a causation between running and winning. Now I don’t have time to review every game, but I remember the majority of our runs this season occuring in the second half to close out games. When we have abandoned the run early, it was because we were behind in games like Dallas. In my opinion, we only need to run well enough to keep the opposing defense guessing and the play action pass more effective. The NFL rules are designed to encourage/favor the passing game nowadays. The NFL season stats show that the top teams are closely correlated to the top passing teams, while the top running teams are not.

In Breesus' name we play

by Breesus Christ Superstar on Dec 30, 2009 6:46 PM CST up reply actions  

But this isn't just about running

…it’s about running effectively, and the difference in running styles between the days of dominance earlier in the season and the days of mediocrity over the past four games.

Whether or not we run to set up the pass, or just run in the second half to bleed the clock, we have to be able to move the chains on the ground for either tactic to work. In the early days, we could move the chains on the ground. Lately, we can’t.

Oystershuck has provided a plausible explanation for that phenomenon. I can’t state for sure that he’s right (since I haven’t done anything like a systematic film study); but his claims are at least worth taking seriously.

BURN THE BLACK PANTS!!!

by MtnExile on Dec 30, 2009 8:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Oyster stick this crap about the run game is garbage...

the the naysayers but to me, you hit it on the nail, especially about Reggie. I’ve been screaming this crap for, how long have I been here Saintsnational? But you’re right. I never understood how a finesse passing coach like Payton could be so keen on the bruiser back running style like he is. Anyway, I’ve said it before and will say it again, I don’t think Reg will be back—Superbowl or not. But I think he’s going to rip it up in the playoffs!

Don't worry I got your back cuz...

by TAYDIGGA on Dec 29, 2009 4:51 PM CST reply actions  

Good points in the comments

Saintsational – I certainly agree that the statistics don’t on their own lead unquestionably to my conclusion. Statistics can be bent to draw any number of conclusion. (For example, my roommate is a Reggie hater who is fond of pointing out that #25 has one of the worst punt return averages in the league as unquestionable proof he is a waste; I argue that this is evidence he is the most dangerous punt returner because punters kick it high and short so the coverage can swallow up any return space before he has a chance to move. But when pushed neither of us can really explain why in one game last year he returned three better punts than he has done all of this year.) So if I’ve let myself pretend that these stats without a doubt prove my conclusions, I should be punished. If running more correlates to winning more, then it could mean that running causes winning, that winning causes running (as you point out could be true), that neither are really related (e.g. different teams need different gameplans which are far too complex to simply measure by number and types of run plays), or that we should bring back no-pass Ditka, right?

It would be great to break it down further, like I started to scratch the surface with in examining the Miami game above, and like I trust the coaches do in much greater depth than I would ever have the chance to come close to. But, nevertheless, it is my humble hypothesis, perhaps testable (by some stats and next week’s gameplan) but certainly never provable, and I’ll continue to stick by it until someone convinces me of a better one.

Shuckin’, sackin’, and eatin’ Saints opponents alive til the day I die,

oystashuck, aka Shuck Khan

by oystershuck on Dec 29, 2009 5:25 PM CST reply actions  

yeah, oyster-man... GREAT REPORT - do you have a PhD in running game analysis?

nice breakdown. Thanks for that.

like Saintsational and others, I feel like our passing sets up the successful running game (with the running closing out the game after we’ve passed to a lead), although at times earlier in the year it seemed we were able to run when we couldn’t pass, too. I wish it was my job to breakdown those stats for even more full analysis…I’d eat that work up.

"In the end, the bread was in the pudding." -- Bobby McCray

Shop as usual, and avoid panic buying.

by Hans Petersen on Dec 29, 2009 8:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Rec'd

Just wish you would have put some thought into it before posting. :-)

But, seriously folks ~ The run game has definitely bogged down and I think oystershuck has pretty much nailed the reasons why. If we can get the run game back on track it should enable us to stop the dinky-doink 2 yard passing game and get our WR back to doing what they do best, smokin’ the DBs for the long gains.

Remember Henderson with nobody within 20 yards of him? Seems like a long damn time ago!

Fat, dumb, and happy. Hell, two out of three ain't bad!

I Want To Die In My Sleep Like My Grandpa – Not Screaming and Yelling Like His Passengers.

by Just 'Nother Day on Dec 29, 2009 9:34 PM CST reply actions  

but if we don't get the running game back on track, when it's 3rd down, our WRs need to run PAST the first down marker and then turn for the pass

too many 4th and inches vs. Tampa Bay on Sunday because of this…I also found out that on that screen to Reggie on 3rd and 10 in the third Q when he lost 10 yards, he could have gained mucho yardos if he had just followed his blockers up the left sideline instead of cutting it back right…

I recommend everyone read Jeff Duncan’s film study article – posted by Dave in a fanshot earlier today – that’s where I got these nuggets!

"In the end, the bread was in the pudding." -- Bobby McCray

Shop as usual, and avoid panic buying.

by Hans Petersen on Dec 30, 2009 4:40 PM CST up reply actions  

I really feel that this analysis is pretty valid....

just need to offer up some supporting info that we seem to want to ignore. The loss of Heath Evans WAS HUGE. Sure, he is a great FB so we miss him for that reason, but additionally we really haven’t replaced him. No FB since has really been serviceable. Dave Thomas is close ( as far as being a very adequate or above average FB- not that he can be as good as Evans) and I have high hopes he will be very important in the playoffs, if only for a handful of plays or so). I am hopeful because Thomas is a good blocker and very good pass catcher and very versatile. But he is not Evans. However, if Shockey is available it just helps the FB situation hugely and helps our offense infinitely.

One of the reasons our offense has been less explosive is the loss of a FB, and then coupled with the loss of Shockey who is truly one of our weapons and one of our players that defenses worry about (make no mistake about it). When Shockey comes back, a lot of things will fall into place. I think you will see a comfort level with Drew also that has been a little shaky without that TE target. Remember, he’s still learning about Dave Thomas. I think Dave Thomas is still learning about Dave Thomas. This guy has been overlooked in the past years and now he can be a great assest if used properly.

All of this will help our run game and our offense in general. Shockey is also an excellent run blocker and when he is in it keeps LBs , DBs and DEs honest because they know he can block AND receive so well.

I am clearly no genius, but I don’t think any of the analysts on TV have a clue about this and I think other teams understimate this aspect of our team and how it has affected us. Advantage Saints.

"I think we agree, the past is over" - George W Bush
"The greatest enemy of knowlege is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge" Stephen Hawking

by Philinwood on Dec 30, 2009 7:41 AM CST reply actions  

Nice Addition!

That is definitely true. Evans may have been a 6th pro-bowler with his start to the season, and he is indeed sorely missed. Thanks for pointing that out, as I did overlook it altogether. Man, I do love me some Dave Thomas – what an invaluable asset he has been for us this year!!! Playing like a beast at not one but two positions where we would have otherwise needed big help!!! Maybe the most underrated asset to our success this year, especially since Evans’ injury.

I still believe this is our year to win it all, but you’ve given another reminder of why we should become an even BETTER team next year. Man, when we get back Heath Evans and Jamaal Brown (think about it – Brown, Evans, and now Stinchcomb = 3 pro-bowl linemen!), and in addition pick up another linebacker to add some badly needed depth there (as well as see Stanley Arnoux for the first time?), we may just be even more hell on wheels then we are now.

I should say I think Bushrod has been superb, and has been learning and improving steadily all year. I was actually quite disappointed in Jamaal Brown last year, but I’m hoping that it turns out Brown’s hernia injury was the x-factor there, because he clearly has incredible athleticism and size to be a perennial pro-bowler. However, if he comes back healthy in the Spring and does not seem to be playing up to his potential, knowing we have Bushrod and Strief doing a very solid job, we could always trade Brown for a proven pro-bowler at almost any position with perhaps some draft picks, too — outside of an elite QB I can’t think of a player with higher trade value than a young, pro-bowl LT. But I am digressing and getting waaaay ahead of myself. There will be eight months with nothing to do but blabber and speculate about 2010, so I’ll get back to enjoying the dream season that is 2009.

by oystershuck on Dec 30, 2009 8:54 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Amen brother

Great post. Man you people can come up with some stuff.

by KilnBill on Dec 30, 2009 9:13 AM CST up reply actions  

What about the Defense?

I really don’t think we can overlook the fact that the Defense and their play has a lot to do with the running. 2006’s balance we had a servicable defense (ranked 11th I think?)…07-08…we know how that went. My point being that when you are down 14-3, you are less likely with a QB like Brees to pound the ball to try and get back into it. In a sense, the success of Brees and the passing game can be a crutch in that you know you can get it all back in a blink. If you look at the early season balance, the run was still set up by the pass; furthermore most of it was done in the 2nd half when the lead was secured.

In the 24-3 game against the dolphins thru 28 minutes; we used the hurry up to pull to 24-10 before the end of the half. Ensuing Dolphins possession saw D-Sharp pull the game to within a TD; once the offense got the ball back it was 27-17 early in the 3rd quarter…Mike Bell broke that big run off to get things going. You can do that down 10 with most of a half of football left to play. Down 24-3 with a quarter left in the Dallas game, that’s a tall order. That’s a game where the Defense failed to get 1 turnover; 1 short field. If that game is 20-10 or 17-10 at the start of the 2nd half, I believe things would have been done differently.

The Jets game is another example. That game was about to be a 2 score game (Jets) when D-Sharp did it again. The Defense set up the Offense to run the ball with another score later on in the first half.

I don’t see how the Saints under Payton and Brees will ever be a run-first offense. I’m in complete agreement that they need to bring that balance back, but am more inclined to believe that will only come when the Defense starts playing like they did earlier on. The offense, running or passing, cannot be counted on to score a TD on their first drive every game or every time they have the ball. Moreover, they (the Defense) rarely make stops deep in the other teams territory. Thus forcing poor field position on the offense when in fact they do make a stop.

Great post, and great writing…I just don’t see it as black and white as “to run or not to run.” Anybody who’s played knows the game is highly situational and certain plays are called and executed based on field position, time in the game, score of the game, field position, looks by the opposition, and ability of your personnel on the field. I think a lot the imbalance you are seeing is based on all of that.

I think another consideration with regards to Reggie is his durability. There aren’t many backs that can hold up to the pounding. Reggie has shown as you increase his touches, he tends to breakdown. I’m not saying he’s not capable skill wise, but I think his touches have been limited based on his history of injuries.

by mainesaint on Dec 30, 2009 11:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes

Defense has been a major problem which I didn’t touch on. In each of the last four games, the other team has hammered away at two weaknesses and exploiting them play after play after play. It may be that I simply don’t understand defensive scheme as well as offensive, but in this case I actually do believe it is chiefly an issue of personnel and not scheme.

(1) I haven’t counted but I would estimate that a solid 2/3-3/4 of the pass completions, and almost every big pass play, has been at one of my favorite players who is simply either not yet ready or playing the wrong position (I personally see him as our next safety): Malcolm Jenkins. I mean, that kid has been abuuuused. Boy, do we miss Jabari Greer or what? Man it is going to make a difference when he gets back. The fact that he can be depended on to shut down any receiver in the league man-on-man is going to free up our whole system, such as the blitz packages, to be much more aggressive. I predict sacks and INT’s to jump back up when he returns.

(2) I would estimate about the same percentage of runs, and a good percentage of short pass plays, have been right at whichever linebacker position has had an injury. Evans, Dunbar, and Casillas have all busted tail but are simply not adequate backups let alone starters at this point. Where we’ve been lucky to find so much depth at corner when our entire starting secondary was hurt, each of the last four games one the injury of one OLB has been costly as hell. From my cursory understanding of defensive schemes, where Gary Gibbs’ bend-not-break scheme asked the d-line to hold the line of scrimmage (somewhat analogous to offensive line pass blocking, i.e. defend the line) and then make the tackle there, Gregg Williams’ scheme is designed for the D-Line to quickly penetrate the line of scrimmage (somewhat analogous to offensive line run blocking, i.e. attack the line) and thus relies hugely on the linebackers to quickly fill in and make the tackles at the line of scrimmage. What I mean is, Williams scheme demands a lot from LB’s – which is why he values Vilma’s intelligence and skill so deeply. Shanle and Fujita are both very solid, intelligent veterans who have the athleticism and speed to play well in this system. But there is a quick drop off. Simply put, our backup LBs cant carry the load Williams’ system asks them to.

Conclusion: I believe as soon as we get Greer back along with all three LB’s, those two huge weaknesses will be sewn up and we will see Williams once again unleash a more aggressive defensive scheme. In other words, more shuckin that pearl and sackin’ that back!

by oystershuck on Dec 30, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Right On

I think certainly the health of the D is to blame for the defensive struggles. It’s been since Miami that we’ve had all of them on the field. I don’t think we can ignore the fact that since Sed went down, we’ve been run on pretty regularly. Once Greer went down, it hasn’t mattered who the running back has been.

Maybe I’m just being optimistic but I think Jenkins is going to be a good player for a long time in this league. You are right on about GW’s philosophy in my opinion. It puts a heavy burden on man principles thus requiring some solid play by your back four…widdled down to three at times. Your ‘Mike’ becomes your zone SS in a lot of cases if you send 41 or one of the corners on a blitz which is why you see the picks for Vilma this year. Shanle has been used there as well and has had some successes. The ‘Mike’ will sit in that soft zone or pick up the tight end if he runs an out. Anyway, Jenkins is a young guy, with a lot to learn. It’s rare for a CB to come in and be Darrell Revis overnight. By far, physically he’s the most impressive CB on the team and tackles extremely well (see Pats game when I believe he used to the best of his ability).

Let’s hope for health. Again, on the optimistic side of things, I think Payton and GW are being pretty tight with their game planning right now and keeping things close to the vest. I think we’ll see them come alive in mid January.

by mainesaint on Dec 30, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions  

And Yes

Reggie’s durability is unfortunately an issue. But we’ve only got 4 games left til the Mardi Gras Superbowl Champions Parade, and Payton has rested Reggie a ton this year, so knock-on-wood but I think he has 40+ carries in him from here on out.

by oystershuck on Dec 30, 2009 12:19 PM CST up reply actions  

One thing to remember though

If you give Reggiethe ball 10+ times, how many of those are going to turn into turnovers? He does have a tendency of dropping it once in a while. I think if he holds the ball good you might be right though.

by Goody6662 on Dec 30, 2009 11:33 AM CST reply actions  

True

He’s got to be better at always remembering the ball. A fumble is also unacceptable. 4 fumbles (2 lost) this year is unacceptable.

by oystershuck on Dec 30, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions  

he's been fine as of late...

We gotta take the bad with the good. I honestly don’t think the dude has anything close to as much of a fumble problem as AP. What’s his actual fumble stats for his career (Reggie I’m talking about)?

Don't worry I got your back cuz...

by TAYDIGGA on Dec 31, 2009 12:47 PM CST reply actions  

here:

Reggie – 17 career fumbles, 9 of which were lost. 4.25 fumbles per season.
AP – 20 career fumbles, 13 of which were lost. 6.66 fumbles per season.

by Jay Preece on Dec 31, 2009 1:38 PM CST reply actions  

interesting...

now I know AP gets the ball more but still. Reggies been in the league longer.

Don't worry I got your back cuz...

by TAYDIGGA on Dec 31, 2009 2:40 PM CST reply actions  

Reggie vs. Adrian

Let’s be fair here and compare by attempt:

Reggie: 483 career attempts, 17 fumbles = 1 fumble every 28.4 attempts.

Adrian: 906 career attempts, 20 fumbles = 1 fumble every 45.3 attempts.

By contrast, Mike Bell fumbles every 82.7 attempts and Pierre Thomas only every 109.3.

Reggie is by far the most prone to fumble out of all of them.

But notice something: we’re comparing him to Adrian Peterson. If we had Adrian Peterson, and he fumbled at the rate that Reggie does, would anybody seriously consider benching him? Seriously, now.

And one other thing: Peterson is currently averaging 4.4 yards per carry. Reggie is having by far the best season of his career, at 5.5 ypc. He’s only had 65 carries. If he had the 305 that Peterson has gotten, he might be sitting somewhere around 1675 yards right now. He’d also have 11 fumbles so far, of which we’d lose maybe half. That’s an extra 3 or 4 lost fumbles in return for an All-Pro season.

BURN THE BLACK PANTS!!!

by MtnExile on Dec 31, 2009 6:10 PM CST reply actions  

thanks for that

i didn’t even think of the different attempt numbers.

tho i was by no means trying to value RB over AP. never ever that.

by Jay Preece on Jan 2, 2010 4:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Hmm...

by attempts are we talking carries or is it all-inclusive and including receptions and punt returns…

Both Reggie and Peterson, need to learn to hold the ball right. I’ll admit, if cousin got the ball more he’d probably fumble like crazy. Sometimes I see him running, ball all out like testicles without a jockstrap and I’m like, man he’s gonna lose the ball.

Don't worry I got your back cuz...

by TAYDIGGA on Jan 1, 2010 8:01 PM CST reply actions  

Thats funny Taydigga !!! On Reggie. Does it seem to anyone else that when Reggie gets very many carries his knees have him out a week or two?

 Just wounder if Reggie’s knees have had it? I for one like Reggie. That run killing stutter step makes me crazy. LOL GEAUX SAINTS !!!!

by saints-fan-in-miss on Jan 2, 2010 3:52 PM CST up reply actions  

this year he hasn't had any problem with the knee...

as far as specifically the surgery and all. He had a bruise but it wasn’t related to the meniscus or anything…i think it got hurt once, Payton brought him back too soon without surgery, then brought him back too soon again later last year and it’s healing now. It supposedly takes a year for that to totally heal—think Amari Stoudemire from the Suns. I don’t even think he’s the real meaning of “injury-prone” in the truest sense. He just didn’t get the right treatment for it…

Don't worry I got your back cuz...

by TAYDIGGA on Jan 3, 2010 7:28 PM CST up reply actions  

I think Payton learned a lesson and has matured as a coach

and I think we will have a balanced offense in the playoffs as long as no unusual factors pop us such as key injuries, falling way behind early, etc.

"I think we agree, the past is over" - George W Bush
"The greatest enemy of knowlege is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge" Stephen Hawking

by Philinwood on Jan 2, 2010 12:02 PM CST reply actions  

We will be fine.

   I know most say the run opens up the pass. I think the the pass opens up the run and gets more yardage doing it when a team has the offense that the Saints have. Even then. Throw the damn ball till they stop us. I understand ballance but when Shockey and company have been healthy they are unstopable! Just think 50/50 is overated as it applys to this team. Mind you I’m not discounting what a solid running game brings to the table. T.O.P. Gets the defense off the field etc. GEAUX SAINTS !!!!!

by saints-fan-in-miss on Jan 2, 2010 1:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Great Post

I agree completely. Furthermore, i sincerely hope that Payton has some special plays dialed up for Reggie come this post season. It would seem like an awful waste to have held him in reserve all season (to assure that he is healthy enough to play in the playoffs) and if we dont add some “surprises” with him in the running and passing game come playoff time.

by jray2000 on Jan 3, 2010 12:33 AM CST reply actions  

Question for oystershuck

What did your analysis reveal about reggie and a “slow-developing, one-on-one sumo-wrestling, push-push-push scheme?” What did it reveal about reggie and a “quick-opening, leverage blocking scheme that uses traps, cross-blocks, counters and runs to the backside?”

was reggie used more frequently in a particluar scheme? what scheme produced his rushing TD’s?

by jray2000 on Jan 3, 2010 12:39 AM CST reply actions  

good question...

Don't worry I got your back cuz...

by TAYDIGGA on Jan 3, 2010 7:28 PM CST reply actions  

WELL!?!?!?!

You gonna answer a brotha’s question or what?

by jray2000 on Jan 5, 2010 2:16 PM CST reply actions  

good question

I should have kept track of exactly how many he’s run in one scheme as opposed to the other. I know that they’ve opened up the quicker scheme to him a lot more this year than last, as they have with all their backs. I also know that almost every one of his runs for over 5 yards this year has been one of those, while most of his runs in the slow-developing scheme have earned short yards.

by oystershuck on Jan 6, 2010 11:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Good answer

I suspected that it would look something like that. Whatever the case get reggie the damn ball!!!!

by jray2000 on Jan 9, 2010 5:00 PM CST up reply actions  

great post

and i think alot of ppl bring up good points. Reggie, as of late though, hasn’t fumbled really. I think he’s starting to work especially hard on securing the football while he’s running. I’m unfortunately going to say that i think Reggie won’t be here unless he takes a paycut and that i think it’s SP’s fault that Reggie isn’t being used as much. 112 touches for like 660 yards or something this year. averaging 6 yards per touch. think he needs a few more

Superbowl bound!!!...I know! do you?! Go Saints!!

by skinnykinney on Jan 5, 2010 8:28 PM CST reply actions  

I agree

"I think we agree, the past is over" - George W Bush
"The greatest enemy of knowlege is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge" Stephen Hawking

by Philinwood on Jan 8, 2010 5:26 PM CST up reply actions  

i need more touches too, but the better half keeps smacking my hand away

by maybetoday on Jan 5, 2010 8:35 PM CST reply actions  

It's a shame when you can't even cop a cheap feel of yer ole lady.

"I feel sorry for people that don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, thats as good as they are going to feel all day" Frank Sinatra

by CaddoCoonass on Jan 5, 2010 8:46 PM CST reply actions  

This is more of result of injuries

Then SP just changing his game plan. With BT and MB healthy I think he will return to a balanced attach. Also, Shockey is a much better blocker than Thomas which has also been a factor.

by SpindianSaints on Jan 8, 2010 3:23 PM CST reply actions  

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