CSC All-Time Saints Team Nominations: Offensive Tackle
We now return to our regularly scheduled CSC programming. Today we get back to selecting players for our Canal Street Chronicles All-Time Saints team. To get back into the swing of things, today we'll take a look at offensive tackles.
Below is a list of players I've researched and deemed worthy of inclusion in our discussion of great Saints offensive tackles. There aren't really any stats for the position so decisions will inevitably come down to more than just numbers. For the purpose of this project we won't delineate between left and right tackle because the position is often interchangeable.
The poll will open at 6am Central tomorrow morning and will be open for exactly 48 hours, ending on Saturday, June 13tth. Remember again that we will hold a separate election for the second offensive tackle position.
I now open it up for any other nominations or players that you just can't believe I missed. Talk it out in the comment section. It's a lot more difficult to find information about offensive lineman so there very well may be a glaring omission. I would also love to hear some personal rumination from our readers who've actually watched these guys plays.
Willie Roaf
Height: 6'5"
Weight: 320
D.O.B.: 4/18/1970
College: Louisiana Tech
NFL Experience: 13 Seasons
Seasons with Saints: 1993-2001
Notables: 11-time Pro Bowler & 3-time first-team All-Pro.
Stan Brock
Height: 6'6"
Weight: 295
D.O.B.: 6/8/1958
College: Colorado
NFL Experience: 16 Seasons
Seasons with Saints: 1980-1992
Jammal Brown
Height: 6'6"
Weight: 313
D.O.B.: 3/30/1981
College: Oklahoma
NFL Experience: 4 Seasons
Seasons with Saints: 2005-
Notables: 2-time Pro Bowler & 1-time first-team All-Pro.
Kyle Turley
Height: 6'5"
Weight: 306
D.O.B.: 9/24/1975
College: San Diego State
NFL Experience: 9 Seasons
Seasons with Saints: 1998-2002
Notables: 1-time first-team All-Pro
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40 comments
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Comments
Willie Roaf
Hands down, this guy was great for the field and the community.
by Brazil meets LA on Jun 10, 2009 6:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Willie Roaf
I think the pro-bowl appearances says it all. And if Joe Horn had left his wife alone he might have ended his career with the Saints.
Who Dat?...... Drew Dat ! ! !
by Big and Easy on Jun 10, 2009 6:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Jim Dombrowski
played LT his first four seasons with the team, before being moved inside to guard. I think if you’re going to list Wayne Martin, Jim Wilks, Frank Warren, etc., as DEs then you should probably make the same “multiple position” concessions for players who have shown that level of versatility along the OL. That would go for LeCharles Bentley, as well (whenever we get around to nominating centers and guards). I’d also like to bring up a couple of guys I doubt anyone else is going to mention: Don Morrison, who played for the Saints throughout the 1970s, and Jerry Sturm, a notable member of the inaugural team who played all three OL positions during his career. He was a two-time Pro Bowler in the AFL with the Denver Broncos prior to landing in New Orleans via the expansion draft.
by coldpizza on Jun 10, 2009 7:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
AWESOME!!
You threw out the Dombrowski! I can’t tell you when I’ve heard that name last. I would certainly vote for him over Turley and Brown but I wouldn’t put him above Roaf. Wille was a master of his craft and certainly the best LT this team has seen yet and still the best OL in the history of the Saints. Hopefully, there will be plenty more to fill his shoes. It’s a shame they don’t allow the players to go into the HOF with their team caps on. I would love to see him there with the Fleur!
GEAUX S88S!! Konichiwa!!
by s88fan on Jun 10, 2009 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dombrowski needs to go in as guard
That way, he can continue to play for all time next to Willie Roaf.
This is OUR year!
by MtnExile on Jun 10, 2009 8:11 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
that that would be the ideal outcome, but I don’t think you should pigeonhole anyone who has played multiple positions into a specific one like that, especially before his (target) position is addressed. There’s actually two guards who could conceivably beat out Dombrowski. If that happened after he was excluded as a tackle twice, he’s out in the cold. What’s to say he wouldn’t have beaten out Brock in a vote?
by coldpizza on Jun 10, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can understand that
but so many linemen bounce around that it’s impossible to put together an all-star team unless you do one of two things: pigeonhole a player, or select the unit as a whole.
Dombrowski is a good example of that. He spent his best years playing guard, so I think that’s where he should be.
Who do you see beating him out? Jake Kupp is a given, so that leaves…Brad Edelman? Steve Korte and LeCharles Bentley were not necessarily better, but more significant at center, so I wouldn’t put them in the competition at guard.
This is OUR year!
by MtnExile on Jun 10, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand
what’s so “impossible” about it. If a player played more than one position and is worthy of all-time inclusion, nominate him at every position he played. There’s no reason to pigeonhole them. Have you ever seen an all-time Bears team? Often times, Gale Sayers is listed as a returns specialist, just to fit him on the roster. He’s not beating out Walter Payton, so they stick him where he’s best suited otherwise, based on what he actually contributed to the team. To say he was a better return man than Devin Hester is a stretch in and of itself, but few people are going to have a problem with Sayers being listed over him, because he was a better all-around player, a HOFer and a legend of the game. Same thing here, albeit to a much lesser extent. Dave Waymer is arguably the best cornerback AND safety the Saints have ever had. Are you telling me he should only be nominated as one or the other? If so, why?
by coldpizza on Jun 10, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, what I would suggest is selecting the whole unit AS a unit
That mitigates the possibility that a great player won’t make the team.
To me, Roaf and Brock must be the tackles, and Dombrowski and Kupp the guards. Center is tough, but I lean towards Hilgenberg.
If we do it this way, I don’t have to worry that Dombrowski also played tackle, and Hilgenberg also played guard. If we do it sequentially, we run into exactly the problem you describe: if we can’t get Dombrowski in as a tackle, we might not be able to get him in as a guard, either. If we don’t get Waymer in as a corner, we might not get him in as a safety. I’ve actually got my entire squad worked out, so the arguments I make are based not only on who I want, but where I want them.
One of the potential problems with nominating players at every position they played is that you might wind up with Dave Waymer playing both cornerback and safety. You can’t control the voting, after all…only the nominations.
This is OUR year!
by MtnExile on Jun 10, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not really
because we’re doing it one position at a time. I’m pretty sure Wayne Martin won’t be included on the DT ballot, since he’s already in at DE.
My point was not everyone has the same criteria you (or I) do in voting and allowing non-enshrined (for lack of a better adjective) players to continue to float into other position categories would give everyone a lot more flexibility as the selection process continues.
Maybe someone wants Dombrowski as their right tackle. He played tackle. They should have that option, provided he’s not already a member of the all-time team.
by coldpizza on Jun 10, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Wayne Martin
I’m pretty sure Martin won’t be on the DT ballot as well…but I’m not totally sure. That’s because the nominating process is in the hands of one person, and that person ain’t me.
This is OUR year!
by MtnExile on Jun 10, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The point is...
you have a great dessert topping and floor cleaner in one, but what aisle do you put it on?
Who cares, as long as I can find it!
Do you know what it means...
by MissingNO on Jun 10, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HAHAHAHA
Dude, new Shimmer is a FLOOR WAX.
P.S. Great SNL reference.
by coldpizza on Jun 10, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well done, MisingNO and Soldpizza
It took me a few minutes, but I get it now…
"Knock 'em the (- -) out!" - G Dub
by HansDat on Jun 10, 2009 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Willie Roaf and Stan Brock
What could be better? Brock played his whole career at right tackle, and Roaf spent his at left (except for his rookie year…when he replaced Brock).
This is OUR year!
by MtnExile on Jun 10, 2009 8:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Willie F'n Roaf
Willie is my All-Time Favorite Saint!
"For us, there is no spring... only the smell of fresh wind before the storm."
-Conan of Cimeria
by tlsk1066 on Jun 10, 2009 9:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Willie Roaf
We should have kept him and got rid of HollyWood. HollyWood should not mess with team mates wives!
by Dirty1WB on Jun 10, 2009 9:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
in all fairness
marry a stripper, then hold it against your teammate when you discover she’s promiscuous? I’m feeling the logic.
by coldpizza on Jun 10, 2009 10:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Even though
I was a HUGE fan of Kyle Turley you kindah got to give it to Roaf hands down. And Coldpizza you hit it on the head.
by BigTMill on Jun 10, 2009 11:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Willie Roaf
Willie’s the only offensive player in the Saints Hall of Fame with a decent chance to end up in the actual Hall of Fame.
"They held somebody, but they sure didn't hold LaRon Landry."
by Walter FTW on Jun 10, 2009 12:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Its gotta be Roaf
The spectacle in spectacles ! Great player, great man. HOF baby !
by WhoDat_OH on Jun 10, 2009 1:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
haha
Why is Jammal Brown even on this list he sucks
by jamesyyyboyyy on Jun 10, 2009 1:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Willie Roaf
fo-sho and Stan Brock,until Stan got bull-rushed by the late Reggie White, resulting in the sack for a safety of Bobby Hebert, that changed the mo in the Eagle/Saint play-off game Jan 3,1993, AAaarrrrggghhhh
You think you know, and you don't know, and you never, ever will know..Jim Mora Sr.
by metryman on Jun 10, 2009 3:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ah, an SEE for you, I see
Do you know what it means...
by MissingNO on Jun 10, 2009 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What/Que?
is that code for something ?
You think you know, and you don't know, and you never, ever will know..Jim Mora Sr.
by metryman on Jun 10, 2009 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A Significant Emotional Event
You know, like when Marc Antony killed himself after a defeat in battle, Cleopatra had an SEE and played with her asp, only to die. Marc, being smarter than Cleo, was only faking and went on to hook up with Jennifer Lopez.
We just have to get over some things and move on, like the Brock-White-Roaf thing.
Do you know what it means...
by MissingNO on Jun 11, 2009 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Dig it
learn something new everyday, like unsupported MSG? nice bridge w/ Taylor/Burton-MA/J.Lo we Saint fans are full of scar tissue that game was one of many past SEE’s..stay strong Who-Dats
You think you know, and you don't know, and you never, ever will know..Jim Mora Sr.
by metryman on Jun 11, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unsupported MSG?
Is that like a Chinese restaurant that doesn’t use monosodium glutamate?
This is OUR year!
by MtnExile on Jun 11, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Dombrowski and Roaf
And I want Stan Brock in as well. Put me down for Hilgenberg at center and then help me find another good OL who played lots of years for Saints to round out the bunch.
What position did Steve Korte play?
"Knock 'em the (- -) out!" - G Dub
by HansDat on Jun 10, 2009 7:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Jake Kupp
is your man. First really good offensive lineman in Saints history.
This is OUR year!
by MtnExile on Jun 10, 2009 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks I'll keep a full Kupp of Jake on my mind...
"Knock 'em the (- -) out!" - G Dub
by HansDat on Jun 10, 2009 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
shysta
I wanna see this fat girl that one of my padnas hooked up with one night while drunk, she was a beast of a woman and definitely could’ve been a lineman.
by J Rock on Jun 10, 2009 9:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
please
remove Jamaal Brown from the nomination list – I find it personally upsetting to see him on a list with Roaf. Ditto for Turley.
I think what we’re going to find (if we haven’t already) is that some of these positions are going to be total no-brainers because we haven’t had more than 1 or 2 really good players at that position ever. To me, it is Roaf and Brock at tackles and it isn’t close.
by SaintBevo on Jun 10, 2009 10:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree that Jammal Brown
is considerably overrated as a LT. I’m probably one of the few people in this group who threw a small hissy fit when they took Reggie Bush at #2 overall. Not that I have any real problems with Bush. I just saw D’Brickashaw Ferguson as our LT, he and Brown forming the perrennial All-Pro bookends we’ve never had. I was convinced they were going to work a deal to trade down and I even held out hope for a player-for-player trade after the Jets selected him, like the Giants and Chargers pulled a couple of years prior.
Brown seems good for at least one false start and one holding penalty per game. He also hasn’t shown a whole lot of ability in maintaining outside containment on sweeps. Granted, that’s something that even the elite struggle with at times. Yet with certain glorified Vai Sikahemas on the roster, it is what it is. All in all, a particularly frustrating aspect of your game to consider a shortcoming, particularly when your star running back possesses the directional repertoire of a tetherball. Brown IS an exceptional pass blocker, though. And he’s at least ballpark average in opening up inside lanes, as evidenced by the few backs we’ve had that managed to recognize them consistently.
As far as the Pro Bowls are concerned, I don’t consider him particularly deserving of either of them based on his on-the-field performance. That’s not a knock, that’s just me saying Chris Samuels is a better LT at this stage of his career. Couple that with Walter Jones and Orlando Pace both getting up there in age and a position that very few people pay much attention to to begin with is suddenly lacking a poster child.
In steps Brown with a phenomenal first game performance against Julius Peppers in the season opener of 2005. In fact, his entire rookie season was exceptional. That was on at RT, however. The next season, the Saints were the feel good story of the NFL and it would have been unheard of to not have any members of an NFC Championship caliber team invited to Honolulu. Brown didn’t completely stink it up that year, so he was the safe bet. This may be hard for some of you to come to terms with, but it was a buzzword nomination. He’s basically been living off his rookie reputation as “the pup who manhandled Julius Peppers” ever since.
That being said, I think he belongs on this list, as he’s arguably one of — if not THE — best pass blocking tackle(s) we’ve ever had. I realize that’s not saying a whole lot, considering the size of the field. Brock, Roaf and Dombrowski’s careers overlap and combine to cover the majority of the franchise’s relatively short existence anyway, so you’re not really going to milk BOTH longetivity AND diversity out of such a group.
by coldpizza on Jun 11, 2009 12:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I noticed
the template on the right doesn’t have a kicker, punter, returns specialist, special teams ace, long snapper or head coach. Are we not going to be voting for any of those positions? Also, since we have 12 defensive players, I think we should have a RB/WR position that could encompass all the leftovers from those two spots. That way, the loser of the impending Ambramowicz/Martin battle would still have a shot at beating out our second best HB ever for what would amount to a utility spot on the all-time team. Just a suggestion.
by coldpizza on Jun 11, 2009 2:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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