CSC All-Time Saints Team Election: Backup Quarterback

by MtnExile on Jun 27, 2009 10:00 AM CDT Comment 24 comments

I didn't want to step on Dave's entire campaign—he probably has the whole thing planned out in advance. But it occurred to me that probably he and everyone else forgot one position: who is the best bench-sitter, the best pine-rider, the top all-time Saints clipboard holder? Answering that question is a task about as gratifying as cleaning a grease trap or doing your sister's taxes. But it's the deep offseason, and we're Saints fans; and so for our sins we'll just have to knock back a few drinks and get it done.

They are the sweepings of history. Especially on a team like the Saints, where such luminaries as Gary Cuozzo, Steve Walsh, and Heath Shuler have been starters, the position of number 2 quarterback has been pretty thankless.

Some have risen to start: Billy Kilmer after one season; Bobby Hebert; Aaron Brooks. We won't consider them. One (Dave Wilson) rose to starter before sinking back into the shadows, beaten out by Hebert. We will consider him. Many of them started at times due to injury on the field or confusion in the front office; and one year (1999) we didn't have a starting quarterback at all—just a rotation of backups (Billy Joe Tolliver, Billy Joe Hobert, Jake Delhomme).

Then there were the bit players, those who barely saw the field—either because they weren't around very long (Karl Sweetan), or because they weren't around for very long twice (Delhomme), or because they played behind Drew Brees (Jamie Martin, Mark Brunell). We won't consider them, either.

That leaves us with a corps of solid mediocrity, and here they are. There will be no bathing suit or evening gown competition, so you can rest easy; but in case of a tie the remaining rivals must answer the following question: If you win this poll, what kind of message will that send out to the young girls of today?

Name	Stats	Seasons	(Backed up)
EDD HARGETT	205 of 437, 2727 yards, 11 TDs, 10 Int	4 seasons	(Billy Kilmer, Archie Manning)
Hargett actually has decent stats, except for his completion percentage...and even that isn't heinous considering the era. But unlike a lot of starters for the early Saints, he threw more TDs than interceptions. On a personal note: he was my late father's least-favorite player. He'd walk out of the room is Hargett took the field.

BOBBY SCOTT	237 of 500, 2,781 yards, 15 TDs, 28 Int	9 seasons	(Archie Manning)
Scott served as backup longer than any other candidate...and he served under only one field general, Archie Manning. Let's face it, no matter what his talent or ability, Archie Manning's cat could have raped the punter and Scott still wouldn't have seen the field. Much.

DAVE WILSON	551 of 1,039, 6,987 yards, 36 TDs, 55 Int	7 seasons	(Archie Manning, Ken Stabler, Richard Todd, Bobby Hebert)
Wilson was something unique in Saints history: the "Quarterback of the Future" who bombed in slow motion. Usually, whoever played QOTF failed quickly; Wilson teased the fan base for five years before it became obvious he was a lost cause. Was it the knee injury, or were the Saints just starry-eyed dreamers to take him in the first round of the 1981 supplemental draft?

JOHN FOURCADE	159 of 313, 2,312 yards, 14 TDs, 15 Int	4 seasons	(Bobby Hebert, Steve Walsh)
Fourcade was a local hero, the quarterback for Archbishop Shaw and Ole Miss. He bounced around among the CFL, the NFL, and the Arena League before latching on with the Saints as a—pardon the expression—scab and going 2-1 as a starter in the magical 1987 season. That guaranteed him a spot in the fans' hearts...and on the bench. Fourcade again stepped into the starters role briefly in 1990, and again the Saints made the playoffs...but he was waived the next year.

MIKE BUCK	35 of 60, 519 yards, 4 TDs, 4 Int	3 seasons	(Bobby Hebert, Wade Wilson)
Who the hell was Mike Buck? Only the backup with the best career passer rating (87.7). Other than that...who the hell was Mike Buck?

DOUG NUSSMEIER	46 of 82, 455 yards, 1 TD, 4 Int	2 seasons	(Jim Everett)
Nussmeier will be forever remembered for being one of only 28 left-handed quarterbacks to play in the NFL.

BILLY JOE TOLLIVER	249 of 467, 3,343 yards, 15 TDs, 20 Int	2 seasons	(Kerry Collins, Billy Joe Hobert)
Billy Joe Tolliver won a national championship at Washington, then lost his college eligibility. Then he went to Buffalo and admitted he never read the playbook. Then he was picked up by—who else?—the Saints. No wait, DAMN! ...that was Billy Joe Hobert.

BILLY JOE HOBERT	157 of 313, 2,031 yards, 13 TDs, 14 Int	3 seasons	(Heath Shuler, Kerry Collins)
Okay, so Billy Joe Hobert was the guy from Washington. Unlike Billy Joe Tolliver, he didn't play for Texas Tech, was never benched for Mark Vlasic, and didn't replace himself after being injured. Twice. He also didn't say that Mike Ditka was "a heck of a football coach," nor did he treat himself with WD-40. But he did play on the same team, in the same year, in the same position, as another guy named Billy Joe.

DANNY WUERFFEL	126 of 258, 1,404, 9 TDs, 16 Int	3 seasons	(Heath Schuler, Kerry Collins, Billy Joe Tolliver, Billy Joe Hobert)
Wuerffel arrived during one of the most confusing periods in Saints history for the quarterback position: Heath Schuler, Kerry Collins, Billy Joe Hobert, and Billy Joe Tolliver played Chinese fire drill for three seasons, none of them being able to hold onto the starter's job. And Wueffel still was barely able to get time on the field.

TODD BOUMAN	75 of 135, 803 yards, 3 TDs, 7 Int	3 seasons	(Aaron Brooks)
Our last candidate, Todd Bouman, served behind Aaron Brooks in the days when you thought that Brooks might actually pan out, if your name was Jim Haslett. The high point of his career was going 0-3 as a starter in the dismal 2005 season.

Poll

Who is your choice for backup quarterback?

Ed Hargett

7 votes

Bobby Scott

22 votes

Dave Wilson

23 votes

John Fourcade

89 votes

Mike Buck

2 votes

Doug Nussmeier

2 votes

Billy Joe Tolliver

20 votes

Billy Joe Hobert

20 votes

Danny Wuerffel

14 votes

Todd Bouman

14 votes

213 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 24 comments

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Comments

you forgot two backups who went on to be pro bowlers for other teams

Marc Bulger and Jake Delhomme

But maybe they didn’t get enough snaps to qualify…

"Knock 'em the (- -) out!" - G Dub

by HansDat on Jun 27, 2009 11:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Bulger was drafted by the Saints, but he never played for them. Delhomme came and went, twice: two single seasons as backup, sandwiched with a stint in NFL Europe. Maybe I should have included Delhomme, but I didn’t want anyone to make their decision based on a player’s success elsewhere.

I guess you can tell from the nominating process, I’m a bit more of a dictator than Dave.

This is OUR year!

by MtnExile on Jun 27, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Aaron Brooks

doesn’t qualify? He led the Saints to their first playoff win as a backup. Billy Kilmer backed up Gary Cuozzo. Why Fourcade, but no Bobby Douglass? What’s the criteria for these nominations exactly? “Spent the majority of their Saints career in a non-starting role”? If so, Wilson and the two Billy Joes shouldn’t be on this list. They all started more games than they didn’t. Finally, why would Bulger’s not having played disqualify him as a BACKUP nominee? Backups aren’t supposed to play. Give me Babe Laufenberg over Larry Cipa any day. CHA-CHING.

by coldpizza on Jun 27, 2009 12:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

When you think “Aaron Brooks,” do you think “backup quarterback”? How about “Billy Kilmer”? Until recently, it was usual for every rookie quarterback to sit his first few years on the bench. Do you think “backup quarterback” when you think of Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr, Roger Staubach? They were all backups at one time.

On the other hand, when you think “Dave Wilson,” you DO think “backup”…at least, I do (that’s the nominating criteria in a nutshell). It’s true he spent two years as (mostly) starter, but he also spent five seasons on the bench—including two after the Saints had demoted him. As for Fourcade, he spent four years with the Saints; Douglass played a single season in New Orleans (right in the middle of Bobby Scott’s tenure…I think of Scott as being much more significant). And Bulger never even made the active roster. Not only did the Saints cut him, so did the Falcons. If you consider Bulger as a Saints backup quarterback, you might as well consider Antonio Pittman when we nominate running backs.

This is OUR year!

by MtnExile on Jun 27, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Douglass

played two seasons for the Saints and was one of the best scramblers to ever play the game. Both he and Scott played significantly in 1976, when Manning missed the entire season with tendinitis in his throwing shoulder. As compared to Aaron Brooks, who played four games with a partial cuff tear in his. Just thought I’d point that out, for all the Brooks haters. I agree that Scott was more significant based on his tenure with the team, but I don’t think he was a better QB than Douglass, who started for the Bears for several seasons before ever arriving in New Orleans.

I get what you’re saying, though. You’re attempting to exclude proven long-time NFL starters. Otherwise, Mark Brunell would be just as much a front runner for this title as Brooks, based on his success prior to be a backup. Fine line there and I’m not sure I agree with your thinking of excluding those with considerable subsequent/prior success. To me, that just goes to prove how much more capable they were as a backup. Let’s face it, any two-bit dork can hold a clipboard. It’s what you do on the field that counts.

by coldpizza on Jun 27, 2009 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bobby Douglass

You’re right…I hadn’t realized he also played the year after Manning was out. He had 16 completions and 3 interceptions. That should have been enough to gain him a spot on the ballot.

You have to understand: this whole thing was never meant to be serious. Either I played it too broadly, or too subtly…I can’t figure out which. But the alternative to choosing a backup quarterback based on his clipboard-holding ability is to award the job to the runner-up in the starting QB competition. Can you imagine Drew Brees and Archie Manning co-existing on the same team, one of them relegated to the bench? It brings back memories of the whole Adams-Jefferson fiasco. (You youngsters might not remember that one.)

This is OUR year!

by MtnExile on Jun 28, 2009 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, I can't

Had Archie’s father not killed himself, he would surely intervene and demand that his son be traded to the All-Time Titans.

by coldpizza on Jun 28, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're assuming that Brees will win the vote for top quarterback

Yeah, you’re probably right. But it may be closer than you think. Still a lot of Archie fans out there.

This is OUR year!

by MtnExile on Jun 29, 2009 7:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm definitely not one of them

Give me Hebert, Brooks or Everett over Manning any day. Besides, is it truly possible for someone who played his entire career pre-1990 to be voted the all-time best at his position? C’mon breaux, I wasn’t born yesterday.

by coldpizza on Jun 29, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Speaking of our back up qb’s did any one see the article on Fox Sports.Com by Adrian Hasenmayer. He ranked the QB packages for each team. The Saints are ranked #1 in the league.

by carolinasaintsfan on Jun 27, 2009 2:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

No, I didn't see that, but he's right

I think Brunell can still do it. Working within Payton’s system, with good protection and an excellent receiver corps, he could be a top ten quarterback in this league. Of course, Brees is a top 3 quarterback.

Harrington? He might be able to claw his way into the top half, but I pray we never have to hope for that.

This is OUR year!

by MtnExile on Jun 27, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What does that mean then if Joey beats out Mark in training camp for the backup position?

by FriarBob on Jun 27, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It means Payton knows more than me about quarterbacks

…or thinks he does. Actually, I’d bet my house that he thinks he knows more than me.

Come to think of it, I’d bet my house that he does know more than me.

This is OUR year!

by MtnExile on Jun 27, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah I’m pretty sure you’re right. :) But then I’m pretty sure he knows more than me too, so its not personal or anything…

by FriarBob on Jun 28, 2009 1:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He doesn't know more than me

Ok, maybe he does. But I wear baseball caps. Sean wears visors. That gives his head a lot more room to grow.

by coldpizza on Jun 28, 2009 4:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

All things equal

I would think Harrington DOES beat out Brunell for the backup position, simply due to the play-calling/formation complications switching to a southpaw could present.

by coldpizza on Jun 27, 2009 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t know for sure on that one. I think our guys on the line could handle it, at any rate. And I have a really hard time figuring out how the WRs couldn’t. The question mark at first would be stinchcomb, of course, but if he couldn’t hack it I’d bet that we could find a way to shuffle the other positions to make it work. And/or give him help on that side from the TE.

But I do think Joey has a good chance. It may pain quite a few Detroit fans to admit it but he did play rather well for atwahnta a few years back. I think with a decent line he has a good chance to be a very good backup and maybe even an eventual starter again. Hopefully, of course, not for us! :)

by FriarBob on Jun 28, 2009 1:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's why I said

“all things equal”. I don’t think it would be a deciding factor … just an underlying consideration, barring separation through performance.

by coldpizza on Jun 28, 2009 4:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think that just about any QB

in the league could be successful in the Saints offense. Put it this way, if you’re poor enough that you couldn’t put up better than average numbers in a system this QB-friendly, you probably would’ve never made it to the pro level to begin with.

by coldpizza on Jun 27, 2009 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

We can only hope.

by carolinasaintsfan on Jun 27, 2009 7:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

thanks for the bad memories

the two headed billy joe, poor danny wuerffil looking out of his ear hole, mike ditka cutting chris everett ( i mean jim) for heath shuler, what a strange trip it’s been.

by r c a on Jun 27, 2009 8:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs