Boy, You've Gotta Carry that Weight (A Long Time)
Remember back in April, amidst "Golden Slumbers," when there was much ado about Vikings running back Adrian Peterson putting on ten to twelve more pounds this off-season in an effort to become more durable and more punishing? Peterson, who is 6'1", has been playing at 218 pounds but plans to get to 230 pounds by the start of 2009 training camp. Said the running back...
"I don't think too many guys would be excited to see me at 230 two times a year,"
You may also remember these plans were met with some skepticism by a number of people including his coach, Brad Childress, and other NFL running backs like LaDainian Tomlinson. You see, while adding weight so that you can better run over lineman sounds like an awesome idea, it often comes at a price. Speed, quickness and agility are all at risk of being sacrificed. Clinton Portis, who added significant weight to withstand the punishment he would face in the tough NFC East after being traded to Washington, has admitted to losing breakaway speed and says simply...
"You have trade-offs,"
Even worse, injury becomes a greater possiblity. More weight that a players body has to carry around equals more stress being placed on his knees, joints, everything. All of this leaves many to wonder if it's the right move for any running back.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch our very own Pierre Thomas, who is listed at 5'11", has had the same idea as Peterson.
"I've been trying to bulk up a little bit. I've got a little extra weight with me now," Thomas said. "I'm bouncing around now between 220, 225. I'm going to try to see if I can keep that."
Not to mention the fact that dude can now squat 675 pounds! That's the same as like one and a half Hollis Thomas'.
Yet nobody in Who Dat Nation has raised an eyebrow. Peterson says he's thinking about it and people around the league are all over it. Thomas actually does it and crickets chirp. So what gives? Why hasn't anyone expressed concern over Pierre Thomas' decision to add weight this off-season? Is Pierre's situation somehow different from Peterson's?
Wouldn't it be nice if Deuce were still here and could offer his advice on this situation? Turns out, he did have something to say when the topic first came up with regards to Adrian Peterson.
"You think you're going to be more durable, but injuries are still going to be there because of his [physical] running style," says former Saints back Deuce McAllister. "You say 10, 12 pounds is going to enable you to punish defenses, but the reward is not worth the risk."
McAllister played at about 220 as a rookie in 2001, then started putting on weight for the rigors of a full-time role after Ricky Williams was traded to Miami in '02. In '05 and '07 McAllister, who weighed 232 by then, sustained ACL tears without being hit. "I believe if I hadn't put on the weight, it wouldn't have happened," he says.
The fact is, we've all liked the idea of Pierre bulking up this off-season but perhaps we need to take a step back for a moment and re-evaluate the situation. Thomas has stayed pretty healthy throughout his short career so far and I would hate to see that change because of his desire to fix something that wasn't necessarily broken to begin with. And wouldn't it be typical Saints luck for PT to get injured the season he finally gets his chance to shine? While I love what Pierre has done this off-season and the promise that it brings, I will still remain cautiously optimistic about the 2009 season until "The End."
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Comments
Less is more
Maybe, and that is a big maybe, weight helps some of the linemen. Otherwise I don’t think gaining weight can be helpful unless it’s solid muscle weight. But who can make it to the NFL (okay, other than Arrington) without enough weight? Bottom line is that if these people can play at __ weight, then they don’t need to gain weight to become “more durable.” I want to know what idiot came up with that? Then that person should be shot for ruining careers.
by xen-cuts on Jun 4, 2009 6:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"nobody in Who Dat Nation has raised an eyebrow..."
Not true. We’ve discussed this several times…enough that I could comment on it on May 5, and refer to that comment in another discussion May 13. And it’s not just me; others have commented on it too, in the course of other discussions. We’re on it. We’re savvy, informed football fans, part of the best Saints blog out there. (Well, some of us are just out there.)
This is OUR year!
by MtnExile on Jun 4, 2009 6:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i said something
and i do remember having some kind of conversation about this in an article. maybe it was the quote that deuce said and pierre saying he was wanting to do it that sparked that conversation.
Superbowl bound!!!...I hope? Go Saints! :D
by skinnykinney on Jun 4, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was part of a thread on that, too
I think I may have even lamented that Deuce had 3 good years at his new weight before getting injured, so I’d be warily watching PT in that same stretch of time from here on out.
"Knock 'em the (- -) out!" - G Dub
by HansDat on Jun 4, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you started it
This is OUR year!
by MtnExile on Jun 4, 2009 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he did
You can all take credit. I’m just late to the party.
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by Saintsational on Jun 4, 2009 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was just assuming Dave meant "present company excluded" when he referenced the Who Dat Nation as missing the boat
"Knock 'em the (- -) out!" - G Dub
by HansDat on Jun 4, 2009 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
was really referring to Saints fans in general
and the media and the organization
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by Saintsational on Jun 5, 2009 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that works, too
"Knock 'em the (- -) out!" - G Dub
by HansDat on Jun 5, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not convinced
that putting on weight, even if it is muscle, is a good idea as a RB. The proto types for RBs who didn’t get injured were Walter Payton and Jim Brown. Payton wasn’t big but was tough as nails and could run around you , thru you and over you. I think he was just naturally gifted and also didn’t let defenders get direct hits on him all that often.
Jim Brown was bigger and incredubly gifted, a different type of runner, but he could run around you and past you but mainly he broke an amazing amount of tackles because of his size and power. So my point is you need to be the type of runner you naturally are. If you try to be something else, I think you will have trouble succeeding or you will get injured. Tiki Barber can’t be Christian Okoye and Larry Johnson can’t become Gale Sayers. Another RB who comes to mind that wasn’t big but was tough and carried a HUGE workload and was not injured much was Wilbert Montgomery. I will add, though, in the last 10-20 years I think it has become harder for an elite RB to stay healthy and productive more than 4-6 years because of the pounding, but I don’t think putting on a lot of muscle will really fix that, it is what it is and your genetics plays a big role.
by Philinwood on Jun 4, 2009 7:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Regarding Walter
Payton said that when he had taken the play as far as it was going to go, he always tried to finish by hitting the defender, rather than the other way around. You could practically count the number of times he ran out of bounds on one hand.
That wasn’t size, and it wasn’t physical toughness: it was attitude. Payton understood that the role of offense was to attack, and that went not only for the unit but for the individual players. He always attacked the defense. If Pierre can concentrate on giving hits, he won’t take as many, and he’ll last longer without needing to add weight.
Actually, it’s not the hits that bother me, it’s the added stress to the joints. He should just be himself, as Philinwood says.
This is OUR year!
by MtnExile on Jun 4, 2009 7:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha
Love me some nigerian nightmare. Brandon Jacobs seems to be a clone of that guy, and its awesome just seeing these people run over linebackers and DBs. lol
Good response btw. I agree with you, the seasons are longer, the offseasons are longer, and some players are bigger, faster, stronger than they ever have been. RB is probably the hardest position in the NFL to stay healthy due to the sheer amount of punishment you put your body through. I think this is the reason why more and more teams are going to a runningback-by-committee style of offense.
Former New Orleans Saints RB George Rogers
"I want to rush for 1,000 or 1,500 yards, whichever comes first"
by stuart0908 on Jun 4, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice quote, Stuart
I forgot it was Rogers who said that…
"Knock 'em the (- -) out!" - G Dub
by HansDat on Jun 4, 2009 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree
weight isn’t that big of a deal really. you need to get to the weight that fits you as a player, not what someone else is doing
Superbowl bound!!!...I hope? Go Saints! :D
by skinnykinney on Jun 4, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
675 lbs. !!!
My God this dude has strong legs huh! The Saints want a power back; being able to lift 675 lbs. sounds like he got power to me.
by narco301 on Jun 4, 2009 9:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The addition of weight in any significant amount
not only adds stress to the joints, but also tends to have a negative effect on the runners gait and ability to change direction.
The most durable runners are the ones who stay true to their natural abilities and body size.
I hope LaFeet’s added weight doesn’t sabotage his abilities, but I’m not betting on it.
Do you know what it means...
by MissingNO on Jun 4, 2009 9:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Very Interesting Take
It is true that the media focuses only on the “SUPERSTAR” players I guess because that’s what gets the viewers. Pierre Thomas is setup to be a breakout player this year, and I really don’t like the thought of him adding more weight.
I don’t understand why running backs can’t just be satisfied with their game. I know that they say you want to always continue to get better, but you can do that without risking your body’s health.
Former New Orleans Saints RB George Rogers
"I want to rush for 1,000 or 1,500 yards, whichever comes first"
by stuart0908 on Jun 4, 2009 9:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
A possible difference?
It’s been reported that the extra weight PT has put on is mostly in leg muscle (as is obvious in the 675 lb. squat weight). The other guys mentioned either added or want to add a lot of upper body weight and strength, correct? That extra upper body weight can put more pressure on the knees and legs and, if the leg strength isn’t equally built up to handle it, leg injuries are more prone to happen. If PT is focusing on building up his legs primarily, is there as much risk to injuring those legs? I’m no physical trainer, so I’m just speculating. But, since PT is focusing on building leg strength as opposed to just adding bulk and shear weight, I’m not all that concerned about him blowing out a knee or hammy. Of course, after last season and the M.A.S.H. camp that seemed to set up on our sideline for every game, maybe I should be. I hope Hawkeye, Hot Lips, and Trapper John can take a break this season.
Deuce has said recently that his main problem over the last four years has been his running style. He’s had specialists investigate his injuries and they’ve come to the conclusion that the way he has always run puts too much pressure on his knees, which has led to his ACL injuries. He’s currently working to correct that, and I hope he does and is able to play again.
Go Saints!!!! Deuce may be gone, but he will never be forgotten.
by satchmo26 on Jun 4, 2009 9:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ya know
I thought about that. It might be a valid point. But if you’re talking about the injury standpoint, weight is weight isn’t it? Does it matter where on your body it is? It is still extra pounds that your body has to account for. Damnit Satch I’m a pool man, not a doctor!
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by Saintsational on Jun 4, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Live long and prosper
Have you seen the new Star Trek? Excellent movie. I was skeptical at first because I like the original so much, but I became pleasantly surprised.
I don’t know about weight vs. muscle when it comes to injuries. It just seems to me that if he is training to strengthen his legs, that training will also strengthen the joints, etc. and not necessarily lead to injuries. If the added weight is mostly leg muscle, then the legs will be stronger and able to handle that extra weight. The issue of flexibility along with muscle build-up is probably the key to avoiding leg injuries. I hope he’s working on that too. Damn it Dave! I’m a musician, not a astrophysicist!
Go Saints!!!! Deuce may be gone, but he will never be forgotten.
by satchmo26 on Jun 4, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's a good point
but if you add it to your legs, it’d still add pressure on your feet/ankles and if it’s all upper leg strength then it adds to the pressure on your knees. PT isn’t a bruiser like deuce really. he’s a hybrid mix between deuce and reggie in my opinion. run a few over but make more miss. idk for sure, i’m just speculating on your speculations. also, i’d like to make more ppl miss then get hit b/c theoretically the less you get hit the less punishment you take and hopefully the longer you last
Superbowl bound!!!...I hope? Go Saints! :D
by skinnykinney on Jun 4, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
interesting point
It sounds like Pierre may change his running style as well. He might try and be more like Deuce and put himself in more punishing situations.
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by Saintsational on Jun 4, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really like his self-motivation
But, I hope he’s not out to prove he’s more than he’s physically capable of delivering. I think all this talk and speculation in the media all offseason about how we really need a big, physical RB to replace Deuce is making him think, “What the hell am I? Chopped liver? I can be THAT guy!” But, I think he’s smart enough to not overdo it or sacrifice too much speed and elusiveness for shear power.
Go Saints!!!! Deuce may be gone, but he will never be forgotten.
by satchmo26 on Jun 4, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nobody has appreciated
my homage to the end of Abbey Road.
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by Saintsational on Jun 4, 2009 10:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, your majesty
This is OUR year!
by MtnExile on Jun 4, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes!!!!
We have a winner!!!!
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by Saintsational on Jun 4, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was pretty clever
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by Saintsational on Jun 4, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And in the end...
the weight you gain
Is equal to your knee joint pain.
Do you know what it means...
by MissingNO on Jun 4, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
very good!
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by Saintsational on Jun 4, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If a Beatles homage falls in the forest but there's no one there to here it, does it make a sound?
Too clever for me, Dave. I had a feeling your headline there was some kind of allusion, but I didn’t have the chops to figure it out, or even ask about it.
Guess I’m not as big of a Beatles fan as I thought…
"Knock 'em the (- -) out!" - G Dub
by HansDat on Jun 4, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if pierre has a breakout season
i expect to see a lot more RB’s trying to add more weight during next year’s offseason.
by nanvinnie on Jun 4, 2009 11:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If Adrian Peterson doesn't....
have a “All Day” style season free of serious injury, I expect we’ll see the opposite.
Go Saints!!!! Deuce may be gone, but he will never be forgotten.
by satchmo26 on Jun 4, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like LT said...
his best year was when he was the lightest.
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by Saintsational on Jun 4, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
AP isnt going to gain weight anymore
Appears is simply no longer an issue with AP
According to Rotoworld:
Adrian Peterson’s father revealed that veteran players at the Pro Bowl convinced his son that bulking up to 230 pounds would be a good idea.
They said, “’No defender wants to see you coming downhill at 230,’” AP’s dad explained. “That’s where having an old-school dad comes in handy. I told Adrian, ‘Those veterans are trying to set you up. They want you to add weight so you can slow down a bit and they can have an easier time catching you.’” Peterson has since scrapped the idea. He currently weighs 216.
by Grumps on Jun 4, 2009 2:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
wow
good find Grumps. Even more to worry about?
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by Saintsational on Jun 4, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WOW
Why the veterans gotta try to con the guy like that? If those were Bears or Packers players telling him that, then he should’ve known better. I like AP and also like that he’s decided to scrap that idea. He most likely would have been sidelined with an injury as a result.
Go Saints!!!! Deuce may be gone, but he will never be forgotten.
by satchmo26 on Jun 4, 2009 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to say
I am headed off this year to Minnie to see the Vikings play the 49ers (the same fellow that came with me to the Chiefs game is a rabid 49ers fan so i am going to his teams game)…i will admit i am looking forward to seeing AP live…i also think Chester Taylor is highly underrated as a result of AP’s skills…that is a crazy backfield indeed…
But in regards to injuries…AP already had the LCL issue…not as major as other knee issues…but i think it points to the position and the beating RB’s take…
by Grumps on Jun 4, 2009 3:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
When the Vikings came into town last year
I didn’t get to see much of AP. And that was a good thing.
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by Saintsational on Jun 4, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I still can’t believe our D held him to under 30 rushing yards. I like to think it was because our D was really on that night, but I often wonder if AP just wasn’t motivated to play or if he was battling an undisclosed flu or something. He didn’t seem his normal self. It truly sucks that we lost that game anyway after shutting down the best RB in the league. That was a horrible night.
Go Saints!!!! Deuce may be gone, but he will never be forgotten.
by satchmo26 on Jun 4, 2009 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well even though i will be sporting red for the game
I hope i see AP run like a madman all over the niners…its not the Saints so i want him to have a monster game…i am going there to sport a borrowed niner jersey and heckle some Vikings fans…good times…
by Grumps on Jun 4, 2009 3:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you should look for a Rickey Jackson 49ers jersey
or a Toi Cook one.
Who else played for the niners in the 90’s after leaving the Saints?
"Knock 'em the (- -) out!" - G Dub
by HansDat on Jun 4, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rickey Jackson and Toi Cook, Super Bowl champs
Know who else played in that game? Stan Brock. For the wrong side.
This is OUR year!
by MtnExile on Jun 4, 2009 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that was weird seeing those guys in other uniforms
that was either right before or right after the opening up of free agency – when players still mostly stayed with one team.
remember Plan B? With the lists of protected players each year?
You know that might make a good discussion thread – do we like the league better now with FA and players moving around a bunch or before FA and players playing out careers with one team? Hmm, I’ll have to give this some thought and maybe it’ll be a FanPost soon…
"Knock 'em the (- -) out!" - G Dub
by HansDat on Jun 4, 2009 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a runner and I'll tell you this...
Right before and definitely right after I got hitched I went from 175 to 206 and when i ran I felt it all in my knees. Since then I’m down to 175 and the knee problems other than (runners knee) are gone. I’ve also pretty much lightened the nagging of a mild bulging disc I gained that the doctor said would be alleviated through weight-loss. How did I gain so much weight? Lifting. Eventually, (after the wedding) it became fat until I got lost in all running around LA. But I will tell you, it can hurt the dude. I’d rather he just do what he do and not try to come too hard. Although, I could understand he wants to be that powerback that the saints need. Let’s see what happens.
Don't worry I got your back cuz...
by TAYDIGGA on Jun 4, 2009 8:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs























