Something Doesn't Add Up Regarding Pierre Thomas' Playing Weight

by Dave Cariello on Jun 6, 2009 4:05 PM CDT

I just finished posting the transcripts of Coach Payton and Reggie Bush's press conferences from the today's minicamp workouts. I'll admit I just skimmed through it as a rushed to get it up quickly for you guys but couldn't help but notice these questions and answers from Payton...

Did you guys tell Pierre Thomas to bulk up?

"I don't know that he has bulked up so much. I've heard that but I think you're going to see him at a similar weight that he was a year ago. You have to be careful at that position. Especially at the running back and receiver positions, bigger isn't always necessarily better. The right weight is what's most important; the weight he's most comfortable carrying. He's probably three or four pounds heavier today than he was last season. I would anticipate his playing weight to be similar to what it was last season."

What was his playing weight?

"Probably in the (2)20s range; (2)24, (2)25."

Ummm....something doesn't add up here. Literally.

I know I have recently made an issue of Pierre's weight gain and I apologize if I am beating a dead horse here but I think this is an important topic and, unbelievably, Payton and I agree...

Before these guys leave here in three weeks, we'll spend a lot of time assigning the reporting weights to these players. That's a pretty important topic because it's something that you want to be on with. You don't want to be too low or too high with the specific player's body type. Their body fat and how their body is made up is important in determining that.

Being so important, you would think that everyone would want to be on the same page and have all the correct information, wouldn't you?

First of all, Thomas is listed at 215 lbs. on the roster found at the Saints official website. He's also listed at that same weight on NFL.com. Yet Payton claims that Thomas was playing somewhere in the mid-220 pound range last year. Okay, so they fudged the roster a little bit. No biggie. Happens all the time.

Or did they? You'll remember what Pierre told us all not too long ago...

"I've been trying to bulk up a little bit. I've got a little extra weight with me now," Thomas said. "I'm bouncing around now between 220, 225. I'm going to try to see if I can keep that."

Heck, that is why the media asked the question about his weight today. It's not like they invented this weight gain story by themselves. Thomas told us himself that he's gained weight! So if we are to believe Pierre - and he ought to know his body better than anyone - then we should all agree that perhaps the weight listed on the roster, 215 lbs., really was his playing weight last season and only this off-season has he bulked up to the mid-220 lb. range. In fact, Pierre has got to be heavier right now because you cannot go from squatting 495 pounds to 675 pounds and not add significant muscle mass.

So what the hell is going on? Who is right and who is wrong? What is the reason for this discrepancy? Has Pierre been fibbing about bulking up to help protect his job? Or is Payton lying and giving us his usual "playing dumb" routine? Is this some sort of deliberate ploy to cause confusion, and if so, what is the purpose? And didn't the media think something was weird? Why didn't they press this issue more?

I hate the ambiguity and perceived deceitfulness.

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Comments

That's why Sean Payton press conferences are mostly worthless

Even if they do ask the tough questions, he’s not going to say anything substantive about anything regarding the team.

Q: How can you tell Sean Payton is lying (or being vague or evasive or secretive) about the Saints?

A: His lips are moving.

"Knock 'em the (- -) out!" - G Dub

by Hans Petersen on Jun 6, 2009 5:18 PM CDT reply actions

He has to know that PT gained 10 lbs. So why lie about it in front of the press?

"All kind of knowledge, eventually becomes self knowledge" - Bruce Lee

by SBookerSaintsFan on Jun 6, 2009 5:23 PM CDT reply actions

What does it matter?

Really?

WHO DAT

by pukenbowl on Jun 6, 2009 6:03 PM CDT reply actions

well...

I for one would like to know the truth about Pierre. Whether he IS in fact bigger or not. It could be important.

I’d also just like a straight answer once in a damn while. I don’t exactly know why all of the games that coaches, players and NFL teams play bothers me, but it does. I just don’t understand the purpose of being ambiguous, deceitful or sly. This is football. The best team is going to win. At the end of the day, I’m not so sure that it really matters whether or not your opponent learns something about your team because you might have revealed a bit too much during a press conference. What does that matter? How much do you really gain? What does matter is whether or not you show up on Sunday with your best game. I wish some people in the NFL would stop acting like the this is a game of diplomacy and world domination and like they are great leaders of even greater countries. I don’t think it’s as scientific as that. It’s just a game. There’s also luck involved.

Hope that answers your question.

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by Dave Cariello on Jun 6, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions

I apologize if I came off as a jerk

I think the coaches are shady about certain things because every little advantage they can gain, can help. The opposing team’s ignorance of your personnel can be advantageous. How advantageous, I don’t know, but I think that there really isn’t that much of a difference personnel-wise of the upper half of the teams in the NFL, and that means that the difference comes from coaching, and like you said, luck. We have all heard the phrase, “a game of inches” or “it comes down to 3 plays.”

“Whether he IS in fact bigger or not. It could be important.” How could this be important? I understand that you want to know, and it would be cool to know, but really, how can this be “important”? Interesting and conversation starting, yes, but to us, it won’t make a bit of difference. We don’t make decisions based on this information, the coaches do, and not just ours, the opposing teams.
It would be really cool to see the playbook, but me seeing it could only, ultimately affect the team in a negative way. It’d be cool as crap, but all I could really do with it, is leak info.
In a way, I wish I didn’t know that the saints ran some 3-4 D today. Not that I don’t like knowing it as a fan, but if I know it, then every other team knows it.
I would like to be on the sideline and see everything that goes on, but I made the stupid mistake of choosing to go to med school and having to study 80 hrs a week in the basement of a dark evil library for a test that going to rape me in 3 weeks instead of becoming a coach and working my way up through the ranks so that I could have this information and make decisions with it. Oh hey again, sorry about that.
I get frustrated about things too, so sorry stepping in on your frustration, but that was my reasoning for my comment.
Like you said, It’s just a game… Let’s enjoy the 19-0 season. By the way, thanks for reporting.

WHO DAT

by pukenbowl on Jun 6, 2009 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions

haha

I wasn’t upset. I’m also sorry if I came off that way.

I think Pierre’s weight matters for all the same reasons that Payton stressed it was important. I think it would also tell us if maybe he plans on changing his running style. It also would mean he’s more susceptible to injury as stated earlier this week.

I totally get your point of view. I just feel like this is minicamp, so how much are other teams going to learn. Can they not be forthcoming even now? It’s early June, not late November. As far as the 3-4 defense is concerned, if the Saints didn’t want anyone to know they were considering running a 3-4, they wouldn’t have done it at an open practice. Hell, it could be a smokescreen.

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by Dave Cariello on Jun 6, 2009 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions

It could have been a smokescreen (the 3-4 lineup) but more likely they were just trying stuff out to see how it worked. Presumably they would keep it around even if they don’t do well with it because they’d want to be able to simulate it during prep weeks for an opponent that does primarily run the 3-4.

by FriarBob on Jun 7, 2009 12:44 AM CDT up reply actions

sounds good to me FriarBob

you know your stuff

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by Dave Cariello on Jun 7, 2009 12:56 AM CDT up reply actions

Not a big deal

Camp in Metairie will burn weight off of PT whether he wants to keep it or not.

by cptbags on Jun 6, 2009 10:51 PM CDT reply actions

He'll lose water

He may lose fat. He won’t lose muscle mass unless he doesn’t eat.

The water loss he’ll gain right back in an evening.

This is OUR year!

by MtnExile on Jun 7, 2009 6:42 AM CDT up reply actions

Pierre Thomas' Weight

What’s the deal here? If Thomas spoke of wanting to add weight, I’m sure he consulted with teams officials, strength coaches and Coach Patton. Why is it, when a reporter notices a discrepancy in statements made by the coach concerning a player, he/she immediately thinks something’s afoot. So Coach Patton states Thomas’ played at 220/225 lbs. last season, but his listed Wt.215 was what was on the roster. The point of feeling deceived by such an mistake, since Thomas’ statement and the roster surely points to Coach Patton either not knowing the proper weight his players are suppose to weigh or….. Look! I seriously think the the Head Coach has a thousand other bits of info to deal with than remembering players weight. So except my apology on behalf of the Saints coaches, players and staff….. Well to be truthful, if you have the gull to put in your report the disclaimer “Well they do fudge the numbers at times.” Well guess what? There isn’t any deceit after all. This is not a Behind The Line type of incident, so please report fairly.

by G.T.Mack on Jun 7, 2009 3:20 PM CDT reply actions

my response

I seriously think the the Head Coach has a thousand other bits of info to deal with than remembering players weight.

Again, I refer to Coach Payton’s own statement about how important it is…

Before these guys leave here in three weeks, we’ll spend a lot of time assigning the reporting weights to these players. That’s a pretty important topic because it’s something that you want to be on with. You don’t want to be too low or too high with the specific player’s body type. Their body fat and how their body is made up is important in determining that.

I also never claimed that Payton was lying. I only claimed there was a discrepancy and wanted to know why. I also question Thomas.

Who is right and who is wrong? What is the reason for this discrepancy? Has Pierre been fibbing about bulking up to help protect his job? Or is Payton lying and giving us his usual “playing dumb” routine?

========

This is not a Behind The Line type of incident, so please report fairly.

I am not reporting anything. That would require access to information which, as we know, only journalists receive. I am merely stating my opinion and feeling on information that was given to me.

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by Dave Cariello on Jun 7, 2009 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions

At least

Patton understood the importance of a ground attack. ducks shoe

by coldpizza on Jun 8, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions

HAHAHAHA!

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by Dave Cariello on Jun 8, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions

OK that was too funny. Coach Patton? I can see it now, Sean shows up on the sideline for a game chewing on a stogie, talking out of one side of his mouth (he does that anyway, doesn’t he?), and giving rapid-fire orders to his “troops”…

OK not really. Peyton’s too restrained, even nearly lifeless, a character during press conferences for me to really believe that he would do that. But it was a funny image.

by FriarBob on Jun 8, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions