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Will Smith and Charles Grant to be Suspended by League...Finally

Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk has the latest and greatest, or not so great, news regarding the StarCaps situation. Apparently, Minnesota defensive tackles Pat and Kevin Williams have won their appeal against the leagues suspensions. Will Smith and Charles Grant? Not so much. 

The short answer to the obvious question of "What the hell does that mean?" is that Vikings defensive tackles Pat and Kevin Williams will not be suspended four games after testing positive in 2008 for a prescription diuretic that also is a banned substance, and that Saints defensive ends Charles Grant and Will Smith will be suspended for testing positive for the same substance, which secretly had been added to an over-the-counter weight-loss supplement known as StarCaps.    

So the Williams' are getting out of this whole situation with no penalty but Charles and Will don't? Hardly seems fair that being right and being wrong is determined by which state you live in. The good news is that the possibility of Grant and Smith serving their suspensions separately, so that the Saints are not without both of them for four games, is still out there. 

If you're really interested or one of those lawyer types, here is a .pdf of the full ruling

0 recs  |  Comment 40 comments |

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Total BS!

This only adds to my distrust of Roger Goodell and the league douchebags who are only out to cover their own asses. Collective bargaining agreement or not, these guys were NOT using steroids and should NOT be suspended for this. Neither should Garrett Hartley be suspended for the stupid choice he made. I love the game of football, but I hate the way some choose to run it.

"He has got a good ol' boy sense of humor, but he has also got a good ol' boy sense of kick you in the ass, too,"--Gregg Williams describing Bill Johnson. The D WILL ROCK THIS YEAR!

by satchmo26 on Sep 11, 2009 11:18 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

whaaattt theeeeeeee?

This has to be the biggest joke

by AKAY47 on Sep 11, 2009 11:30 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Pretty messed up

Either all 4 guys should be suspended or none. This definitely is not right.

by JasonB on Sep 11, 2009 11:35 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Small market team gets the shaft

Would the league pursue the same course of action and punishment if this happened to players on a larger market team like the Cowboys or Patriots? Maybe or maybe not. I’m just thinking about the bad PR hit the league will take as a result of this from Saints fans. Maybe they don’t really care because our fanbase just isn’t as large as other teams. The punishment doled out in 2007 to the Patriots for videoing signals (the league tried very hard to not let that video get out, by the way) seems like a mere slap on the wrist compared to suspending players for 4 games for taking a weight loss supplement tainted with unlisted ingredients. This blows!

"He has got a good ol' boy sense of humor, but he has also got a good ol' boy sense of kick you in the ass, too,"--Gregg Williams describing Bill Johnson. The D WILL ROCK THIS YEAR!

by satchmo26 on Sep 11, 2009 11:42 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Conspiracy!!

Couldn’t agree with you more. The league bends over backwards to protect the good name of its cheating yankee brothers, then bends over backwards to “send a message” with its smaller markets. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, Goodell.

by FuSoYa on Sep 11, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um, MN isn't a big market

The Vikings have the second lowest franchise value in the NFL. While I agree it’s total BS that your guys got suspended and the Vikings’ guys didn’t, it’s not because Goodell was picking on small market teams. It’s because MN has different labor laws that (thankfully) bailed the Williams Wall out.

by ericj69 on Sep 11, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand that

I was including the smaller market Vikings in my earlier post and I realize the MN labor laws are the difference here. I have no hard feelings towards the Williams Wall or anyone else in the Vikings organization. I like the Vikings and hope they do well this year. I just have no trust in Goodell and the league gurus imposing this penalty on all the players involved. This whole StarCaps case has stunk to high heaven from the get go. I was only speculating on if Goodell would apply the same penalty if this case involved larger market teams with more fans to piss off.

"He has got a good ol' boy sense of humor, but he has also got a good ol' boy sense of kick you in the ass, too,"--Gregg Williams describing Bill Johnson. The D WILL ROCK THIS YEAR!

by satchmo26 on Sep 11, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The NFL was going after your guys too

I’m mostly referring to the difference in treatment between, let’s say, New England and New Orleans. Or NY and Minnesota, even. The disparity in rulings against the players is absurd on a much lees dastardly, and simply sadder level.

by FuSoYa on Sep 11, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah if one failed drug test equals four games suspension, then one videotape should as well. Which means that the coaching staff of the Patriots would be suspended until something like 2050 or so.

by FriarBob on Sep 11, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Serously

I can say this completely without bias: this decision is completely illegitimate. If the NFL is going to allow state laws to remove penalties from certain players, it really is a poor organization. If the NFL can’t operate as a centralized agency, I don’t get what legitimacy their “rulings” have. Either the Williamses should be suspended, or Grant’s/Smith’s suspensions should be overturned.

It makes ABSOLUTELY NO sense that, by virtue of playing for a different team in a different state, you aren’t subject to the same rules as everyone else.

by jful on Sep 11, 2009 12:25 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Good point

We have yet to hear if the league will still suspend Grant, Smith, and Deuce after this ruling, so maybe they’ll wise up and see the unfairness here and the inevitable bad PR that will come from this.

"He has got a good ol' boy sense of humor, but he has also got a good ol' boy sense of kick you in the ass, too,"--Gregg Williams describing Bill Johnson. The D WILL ROCK THIS YEAR!

by satchmo26 on Sep 11, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Louisiana lawmakers

should immediately push a law through legislature that bans victory by opposing professional sports teams on state soil. That way, if we happen to lose a game at home, we could just overturn it.

"It feels like a tiny prick " -Reggie Bush

by coldpizza on Sep 11, 2009 1:17 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

LOL

That’s brilliant. Clearly, the NFL would have no choice but to respect state law in this matter.

by FuSoYa on Sep 11, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nonsense

First I don’t get why Grant didn’t serve his suspension while on IR which was an option. Then he could have been appealing to get his pay back rather than to not be suspended, and wouldn’t have hurt the team if he lost the appeal. Selfish decision to me.

Second, I can’t stand this zero tolerance setup that places use these days. NFL just points to that policy as the end all be all. Every situation isn’t black and white. If the policy is to prevent drug and steroid abuse, shouldn’t you have to actually be using something? If this masks test results order a better test to clarify. Reminds me of schools who expel students for having an asprin as if they had a crack rock. These zero tolerance policies usually do more damage to the unintended targets than the actual targets.

Last, could the players now sue under some equal protection type deal? Other players are now being treated differently for the same offense.

by Juncti on Sep 11, 2009 1:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

There’s a reason why I call it Zero Brains instead of Zero Tolerance… its about as idiotic a policy as possible and the only reason it continues to limp on — despite everybody who has a brain realizing its pure crap — is that the people who apply it are no longer required to have brains of their own.

But if you don’t have to have a brain then we can just replace them with a computer with 1980’s-quality AI programming. And frankly I figure it’s about time we try that. Hell it can’t be any worse, can it?

ZT proponents are the pharisees of the modern era. Loud, obnoxious, holier-than-thou hypocrites who deserve to be taken out to the woodshed and taken apart. Literally.

by FriarBob on Sep 11, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Preach it, brother!

Been saying the same thing for years. It’s nice to see zero tolerance coming back to bite a big organization in the butt, because this ruling makes the entire NFL substance abuse policy unworkable. They’re going to have to come up with something else…and it will require actually exercising judgment.

"Tell all the killjoys to pound sand." -- Ralph Malbrough

by MtnExile on Sep 11, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Banning masking agents

is somewhat along the same lines as state laws that regulate how dark the tint can be on your car windows. In essence, you’re not necessarily doing anything wrong … but you might be. And because you’re preventing us for ascertaining whether you are or are not doing something wrong … THAT’S doing something wrong. Complete BS. Why don’t high schools adopt this ideology? Pornography isn’t allowed on school grounds and a copy of Penthouse can easily be hidden inside a textbook. Hell, let’s suspend all kids carrying textbooks. They’re clearly sexual deviants.

"It feels like a tiny prick " -Reggie Bush

by coldpizza on Sep 11, 2009 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was thinking this, Duncan tweeted it
jeffduncantp It’s a tricky situation for NFL. They believe they will ultimately win the Vikes case. In their minds, Vikes are prolonging the inevitable.

A few more appeals yet to go.

Might mean somethin' to you
It ain't nothin' to me

by stujo4 on Sep 11, 2009 2:30 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

There is only one little problem...

Minnesota law is on their side and the appeal court determined that the NFL’s Collective Bargaining Agreement doesn’t overrule the rights of employees in the state of Minnesota.

So, in essence, the CBA doesn’t override state law.

by EasternVike on Sep 11, 2009 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can we start a petition?

There have been many online petitions signed, so there has to be a way to gather enough signatures from the CSC community and others to sign a petition to repeal this thing. Anyone in on this? Do we have any law people that would be knoledgeab knowledgeable on this situation?

by Brazil meets LA on Sep 11, 2009 3:37 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Goodell’s mouthpiece:

“The real losers today are the players on 31 other clubs, who no longer live under the same rules as players on the Minnesota Vikings — a result of the NFL Players Association’s failure to stand behind the program it negotiated with the league, and for which it has properly claimed credit with fans and before Congress,’’ NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said in an email to The Times-Picayune. ”The most respected program in sports has been put in jeopardy by the NFL union’s silence and today’s ruling.’’

Yeah I’m pretty sure that they’re gonna appeal.

Might mean somethin' to you
It ain't nothin' to me

by stujo4 on Sep 11, 2009 4:18 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice spin, there

It’s the union’s fault, exclusively, that one team suffers through suspensions, while the other doesn’t.

by FuSoYa on Sep 11, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

as far as i understand things

the Viking players haven’t really won back their suspensions. They are still in the same situation as before and have to go to court in minnesota to get rid of the suspension completely. We haven’t gotten a suspension yet either as far as i’ve heard. The only thing that changes for the Saints players now are that they could be suspended whenever the league decides to. They might wait for the ruling on the Williams’s case though. Have to wait and see i guess.

Superbowl bound!!!...I hope? Go Saints! :D

by skinnykinney on Sep 11, 2009 4:32 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Grant didn't serve his suspension because

he would have lost all that salary money for 4 weeks. He held onto the hope that the league would be reasonable and reneg on the suspension in light of the situation. I can’t blame him, especially under the circumstances. We should get every CSC memeber here to bombard Goodel with complaints and additionally we should attempt to get other SB nation mmbers to side with us- we have rightgeousness on our sides and I think alot of people are already fed up with Goodell- if everyone really knew the details and facts oif this situation, they would not side with the NFL brass on this issue. Especially if the Minnesota players get off.

"Indecision may or may not be my biggest problem" - Jimmy Buffet

by Philinwood on Sep 11, 2009 4:39 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Right on, Bro Man!

No one is accusing these players of using steroids, all signs point to the fact they were trying to lose weight (not very intelligently, however), and so they do not deserve to be treated as though they were using steroids. This is just a power-play by Goodell, Aiello, and company. This co-called “warning” they issued is bogus. Plus, Deuce had the stuff tested prior to use and the league OKed it. Sure, the players screwed up a little when taking this tainted supplement, but the league screwed up too and are unwilling to admit it. That’s what bothers me most about this case—this “we are above reproach” attitude the league has chosen to take. They knew the product contained unlisted and banned ingredients and did not effectively warn the players and teams about it. Their standard argument is that they warned the players to not endorse the product. How is that the same as warning them to not ingest the product?

"He has got a good ol' boy sense of humor, but he has also got a good ol' boy sense of kick you in the ass, too,"--Gregg Williams describing Bill Johnson. The D WILL ROCK THIS YEAR!

by satchmo26 on Sep 11, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

nice point

Superbowl bound!!!...I hope? Go Saints! :D

by skinnykinney on Sep 11, 2009 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that

if the Mn players get off, we might get off too.

Superbowl bound!!!...I hope? Go Saints! :D

by skinnykinney on Sep 11, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Possible lawsuit?

I hope and pray we see a lawsuit against Goodell over this. This boils down to blatantly having a different set of rules for different teams. Plain and simple, this is an uneven playing field. I think there is a pretty good argument that the Saints are losing money if they lose any of the games Smith and Grant are suspended. I think its safe to say sponsorships come faster for teams with more wins. In my mind, not allowing the Saints to compete under the same rules the Vikings are playing under makes Roger Goodell responsible for any possible lost money, right?

If state law is going to be allowed to give teams unfair advantages I saw we petition the Louisiana state legislature to pass a bill mandating the home team be spotted 20 points in all professional sporting events played in the state. If the word “fairness” is being tossed out the window we might as well take advantage of it, right?

by VAsaintsfan on Sep 11, 2009 6:17 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Don't believe the crap that Greg Aiello spewed out...

My Vikings are not playing under a different set of rules than the rest of the league.

The CBA agreement does NOT override state law, nor should it. The Williams have every right to take the NFL to court over this bullshit, especially since the law is on their side.

In this case the Saints players are being screwed because:
1) Lousiana state law does not provide the same protection to employees
2) Roger Goodell is a douche who can’t see that zero tolerance policies do more harm than good.

by EasternVike on Sep 11, 2009 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are right except...

about the Vikings not playing by a different set of rules. Minnesota law does give the Vikes an unfair advantage. Saints players are being suspended for doing something Minnesota players get a free pass on. That equals a different set of rules. If you cannot enforce a rule across the board for every team, then you are creating a different set of rules for different teams, which is what we have here. I’m 100% behind the Vikings players, and don’t think this should have ever gotten to this point to begin with, but I can’t help but think that this ruling is bad for the NFL as a whole and especially the Saints.

by VAsaintsfan on Sep 12, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Technically...

They haven’t gotten a free pass yet.

It’s just been moved back to the state court where it will be determined if the law applies or not.

So it’s still possible that the court could decide that the law doesn’t apply, at which point the NFL would win and the Willams would be suspended.

The only thing is, they get a “free pass” on this season due to the fact that the case won’t be heard by the court til after the season.

by EasternVike on Sep 13, 2009 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a moot point

Everyone knows how the state court will rule. That’s why Goodell was fighting so hard to keep this in federal court. The state law is clear and in favor of the players. The only way this goes against the Williamses is if the judge happens to be a die-hard Packers fan.

But that’s all beside the point. If the NFL cannot enforce a rule across state lines (which the federal court ruling says it cannot) then we have a different set of rules for different teams. The federal court has said it doesn’t have the jurisdiction to intervene and supersede state law with regards to NFL rules, meaning there is no single legal jurisdiction for the process, which inevitably leads to different enforcement of the rules for teams in different jurisdictions. I agree with the ruling 100% from a political standpoint of state’s rights, but it really screws over the NFL.

by VAsaintsfan on Sep 13, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LAWSUIT

I THINK SAINTS FANS SHOULD SUE THE NFL!!!!

by tabovia28 on Sep 11, 2009 9:35 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The worse thing about this is Goodel could

put the screws to us anytime he wants. We could start out 5-0 and he could get vindictive (and try to quash a small market team like us) and see if he could upset the apple cart by suspending Grant and Smith then. Or, he could wait until Nov when we are tied for winning the division and about to play some key games, and screw us then. This all reeks and should have been finalized in the offseason. I say, if they couldn’t do it all during this past offseason, they should finalize it next offseason. To mess with a team during its regular season, esapecially when this dates back to the preseason BEFORE the 2008-09 season is bullshit. They should all get probation under the circumstances. And we should all start a drive to get rid of Goodell.

"Indecision may or may not be my biggest problem" - Jimmy Buffet

by Philinwood on Sep 12, 2009 8:22 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

From what I understand, the suspensions are to start next week. I really think the Saints should request that at least ONE of the two start THIS week. Then, at least they’d be at half strength for the Giants game.

"It feels like a tiny prick " -Reggie Bush

by coldpizza on Sep 12, 2009 2:35 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

No official word yet on suspending Grant and Smith

I suspect Goodell and the league lawyers have been focused on this decision since yesterday. Since the Williams can still play the season, there’s still a chance the league will postpone the other suspensions to avoid the uproar over suspending some and not suspending others based on a state court ruling. They’ve already gotten enough bad PR out of this and suspending Smith and Grant now would only add to that. There may also be some legal technicality that doesn’t allow them to only suspend some and not all, if we’re lucky. I suspect they won’t let us know the fate of Smith and Grant until Monday or Tuesday. I’m still hopeful they’ll have to postpone all suspensions until all legal avenues have been exhausted by the players and NFLPA.

"He has got a good ol' boy sense of humor, but he has also got a good ol' boy sense of kick you in the ass, too,"--Gregg Williams describing Bill Johnson. The D WILL ROCK THIS YEAR!

by satchmo26 on Sep 12, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That would require foresight and planning

It would also require them to acknowledge the suspensions and it seems to me that they’re gonna wait this out to the bitter end, never accepting defeat until it’s absolutely necessary.

Wanna say something? Sign up! It's free!

by Saintsational on Sep 12, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

IF...

this is true..

THen whenever MINN plays an away game they should be suspended for the first 4 of those

IF they cant suspend them in MINN>. then you get them when they are out.

Course.. I dont think anyone should be suspended for it but if you are going to get some you need to get them all.

MT

by MT_always on Sep 12, 2009 8:50 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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