That being strictly as a Saint. Stabler’s still the best based on an entire career, imo.

IMO, no way Brooks is the best Saints QB not named Brees. This would’ve been an interesting discussion for the all-time team. My take on QB is that, perhaps more than any other position, you have to take non-stats into account. Leadership, being the face of the franchise, etc all factor into it. That’s why Manning and Brees are the top 2. Manning has been the face of the franchise for 30 years. Brooks has the stats, but the guy was not a leader. On top of that, nobody ever did less with their stats than Brooks.

Are you honestly taking Brooks over Manning, or this just coldpizza the devil’s advocate?

nice interjection, Kanye. Little off, though.

1 for 2, 1 touchdown, 0 interceptions, 135.4 rating. Still respectin’!

who caught that TD pass?

You could make that case for a lot of good QBs over the years. Neil Lomax is the one that really stands out in my mind. Prorate his per game numbers over a typical NFL career today and he’s a Top 5 all-time QB statistically. Then again, had he been on a better team, would he have been passing nearly that often? Probably not. Same with Manning. His best season was 1980, when they were playing almost exclusively from behind. He was also given a couple of chances with better teams late in his career and did nothing with them. Jim Plunkett went to a worse team in the Patriots (same year as Manning), put up similiar career numbers and wound up winning a couple of Super Bowls with the Raiders. Not saying Plunkett was a GREAT quarterback, just that you can only play that particular violin so long. And let’s face it, the two teams under Dick Nolan weren’t THAT bad. Four Pro Bowlers on offense (including Manning), five total? That’s more than we’ve had in decades.

if Archie was drafted by Pittsburgh, and the Saints took Bradshaw…….

I think most QBs that are good enough to play on the NFL level would tear it up statistically in this offense. Hell, even Brees has done better than he ever did in San Diego. There’s no doubt in my mind that Manning, Hebert, Brooks, any of those guys could have performed at least comparably to Brees in a scheme so geared towards the pass. Same goes for the WRs. Ike Harris, Quinn Early, Willie Jackson … none were anything terribly special in their day … all would be putting up Lance Moore type numbers in today’s Saints offense. Not saying Moore is anything terribly special himself, but judging from the number of Saints fans that call this the “best WR corps in the league” based solely on production, you could pretty easily juxtapose those 2nd tier guys all day without a hitch.

“It’s entirely another to suggest that those numbers would be attainable by any qb or receiver in the league if he were in our system.”

I didn’t say ANY, I said MOST. I also said at least COMPARABLY. I think Brees is a very good QB in a system geared toward QBs. Patrick Ramsey is/was a below average (i.e., not part of the “most” majority) QB in a system geared toward QBs. I won’t shy away from the assertation that practically every current NFL starter and roughly half of the number two QBs in the NFL (which would represent a majority) WOULD do nearly as well in this offense. That’s not a knock on Brees at all. That’s just me saying I don’t think there’s much difference between he and a Shaun Hill, for example, in a pass-all-day attack. That’s strictly hypothetical, mind you, and I sure as hell wouldn’t want to put it to the test at the risk of picking the wrong lab rat.

“to suggest Brees and Colston and Henderson should give all their glory over to Sean Payton, which sounds like the implied assertion.”

To paraphrase Billy Ray Cyrus, all should give some, some should give all. Brees is at the former-most end of that list. Jamal Jones or Chase Daniel would represent the latter end of that talent spectrum. I personally think Brees could excel in any offensive scheme, just not to the extent that he excels here. I think Colston could make a name for himself in most, maybe start for half, if not a little more. I don’t think he’d be a #1 WR for many other teams, though. Not so much based on his talent — he’s a friggin Herman Moore clone — but moreso because I simply don’t think a 7th round pick would get an opportunity to start, in most cases.

Henderson could probably start for 3 or 4 other teams. You’re talking about an Ashley Lelie, Brandon Lloyd type guy on the outside looking in. Jerricho Cotchery, best cast scenario. No one anyone would be willing to break the piggy bank for, put it that way. Meachem would be comparable to Limas Sweed in most offenses. Big, raw talent, starting potential, still a lot of question marks. He could be Plaxico Burress good. He could be Ernest Wilford bad. The jury is still deliberating.

Moore’s a hands guy and that would lend itself well to just about any scheme. Whether he would have ever been given a shot is the real question. This goes back to what I was touching upon with Colston. There are guys on practically every NFL training camp roster that catch everything thrown their way and don’t even crack the active roster. They’re either too small, too slow or (often times) there’s another player that the team simply has more invested in, be it money, scouting time, a first day draft pick, etc. Simply “being better” isn’t always enough. Henderson and Meachem had “gimme a chance” stamped across their foreheads coming out of SEC schools. Colston and Moore? Not so much.

All politics aside, Moore has the TALENT to be on at least half the rosters in the league. Again, I don’t think his odds of starting are MUCH better than Henderson’s. Moore is roughly Deion Branch or Torry Holt (today, not in their prime). All in all, it’s a rag tag group of WRs that all bring a little something different to the table in THE perfect offense for QBs and WRs.

ill agree about ryan (and delhomme and leftwich). but the nfl is full of copycats, if our system is the main reason for our offensive success, then why isnt everyone else trying to emulate our offense as much as possible? ill bet there are plenty of nfl teams out there that drool over our offense and only wish that they had the proper triggerman to put a high flying system into place. did you watch the colts – fins game last night? peyton easily scored while making all the hand signals, jumping around, and screaming at his lineman that are required for an elite qb. pennington on the other hand ran one of the worst two minute drills ive ever seen against a def that was clearly on its heels. its clear to me that as far as qb talent is concerned there are have’s and have not’s. and the colts are a have and the fins are a have not.