Charles Grant May Never Play for the Saints Again
by Dave Cariello on Jan 6, 2010 6:00 AM CST
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PrintWe may have seen the last of Charles Grant in a Saints uniform and if I'm being honest, I've got to tell you that idea doesn't bother me one bit. Based on everyones reactionary comments yesterday following the news that Grant was placed on IR for the remainder of the season, I assume many of you feel the same way.
But how could this be possible when Grant still has four years left on the $63 million contract he signed that's even fatter than he is? Like a lot of the roster decisions that have been made this past year and all of the decisions to be made in the near future, it all comes down to the Collective Bargaining Agreement and the possibility of an uncapped season in 2010. If none of this CBA stuff sounds familiar, you don't know what I'm talking about or maybe just a little fuzzy on the details, you'll want to read my original post before the 2008 season detailing all of the specifics and consequences. Become familiar with all of this because I can only assume it's going to be a hot topic of discussion this off-season and may have dire repercussions on the future of our favorite sport. Whether you like it or not, changes loom large.
When the Saints signed Grant to an 7-year contract in April of 2007, their hopes for the defensive end were no doubt as high as those of the fans. Instead, it's been mostly disappointment with him recording only eleven sacks these past three years. Not awful, but hardly worth his exorbitant salary. Unfortunately Charles may become the victim of bad timing and poor circumstance because the possibility of an uncapped 2010 season means the Saints - and all NFL teams - will be able to dump high-paid, under-performing players without any financial backlash if they so please. Not good for Grant. If the Saints want to part ways with him and can't get any value out of him, the timing couldn't be more perfect. The team will have the chance to jettison Grant and free up his roster spot with no fear of losing money in the process, something they couldn't do currently.
There are other options, of course. NFL owners could settle on a new agreement this summer but at this point that seems highly unlikely. If they do reach a new CBA, chances are it will be in the final hour - next year. Or maybe the Saints aren't as unhappy with Grant as we, the fans, are and look forward to a healthy Charles Grant returning. Also doubtful. There is even the possibility that Grant would be willing to renegotiate his contract for less money. Regardless, the Saints will have a tough decision to make and Charles Grant should be at least a little nervous.
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In my opinion it is the last option you mentioned,,,
Grant will restructure… GW is rather sold on the guy… although we may wonder where will GW himself be next year…. lol
You gotta go there to come back
i say big deal . . .
most of these players are over paid for they`re work anyway . in my opinion how do they justify payin a person 5 – 6 million a year anyways? i thank they outta get paid 5 – 600,000.00 then if they play up to standard thats where bounses come in . say the QB for example 3000 yds standard if you throw 4000 yds you get extra 500,000.oo and so on . . you get my point , so to grant all i can say is to bad ! ! ! give hargrove the work load . .
by rockN an rollN on Jan 7, 2010 3:15 PM CST up reply actions
maybe it will motivate him to lose some weight and become the player we know he can be.
LOVE MY SHOCKMEISTER AND THE COOL BREES!
no chance
how many times has he had the motivation to give effort? I mean, how about playing on an undefeated team 13 games into the season? This guy is beyond fixing.
This is all speculation, right?
Not that there’s anything wrong with that – I’m just wondering if you read or heard something to suggest the organization is thinking about dropping him.
Avoiding salary cap issues helps, but Benson would still be on the hook for however much guaranteed money is left in his contract. And that will affect how much can be spent on a replacement and other players. The espn article doesn’t explicitly say it, but the way it’s worded, it seems like he’s owed at least another $11 million. Does anyone know exactly how much guaranteed money is still in the contract after this year?
Also, I don’t see any indication that the coaching staff is that displeased with him. I think it’s a safe assumption that they would like to see better run defense from him. But his performance on passing plays wasn’t that bad. It wasn’t great, but he seemed to be back to at least his 2006 form – and it was after the 2006 season they put the franchise tag on him.
NFL contracts aren't guaranteed
in 99% of cases, when you release a player his contract is terminated and there is no settlement, he gets nothing more. The guarantee comes in the form of a signing bonus and the player gets that in one lump sum. The said signing bonus is scattered over the length of the contract in terms of the cap, but the player sees all that money up front. Example: if you sign a 4 year deal with an $8 million signing bonus, you see that $8 million up front, but your cap value is spread evenly at $2 million per year, plus whatever your yearly salary structure is. Some players get extra cash if they make the roster by a given date (roster bonus), which is why sometimes you’ll see a team cut a player before they are due a certain amount. Grant would be a big cap hit, but Benson wouldn’t owe him any more money. No NFL contract is guaranteed beyond the signing bonus. It’s not like the NBA.
$20M guaranteed, more outlandish than Delhomme's sweet contract
rotoworld.com:
Contract Information for Charles Grant
4/27/2007: Signed a seven-year, $63 million contract. The deal includes $20 million guaranteed. 2009: $1.85 million, 2010: $4 million, 2011: $4.5 million, 2012: $5 million, 2013: $8 million, 2014: Free Agent. Cap charges: $5.4 million (2009), $7.55 million (2010), $8.05 million (2011), $8.55 million (2012), $11.55 million (2013).
You probably think this song is about you, don't you?
OK, the total contract is 63 million. Of that, 23.35 million is 2009 to 2013 salary. That leave 40 million left over. Only 20 million is guaranteed.
If he’s still owed a single guaranteed dollar, I’ll fall out of my chair in shock.
I hope you have plush carpeting...
Most signing bonuses are pro-rated through the term of the contract. The difference between the base salary and the cap charge is the bonuses, including the signing bonus. 2009 base: 1.85 Cap hit: 5.4 so 3.55M this year in bonus. Next year will be 4.05M. Not all of that is going to be guaranteed bonus, but a good chunk, will be. I’d guess that we still owe him between 6 and 10 million. That’s a big loss to take. I doubt we’re going to get rid of Grant anytime soon.
by saintsdevotee on Jan 6, 2010 6:56 PM CST up reply actions
His signing bonus has already been paid out in full
$12 million in 2007 and $8 million in 2008. You’re right though, usually they are pro-rated but not in this case for some reason. There are a few other bonuses in there each year but doesn’t seem to be anything significant.
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by Dave Cariello on Jan 6, 2010 10:28 PM CST up reply actions
You misread the cap number. The money is paid out UP FRONT (or at least very early, as SaintSational points out above) but because of cap rules they can PRETEND and count it against future years.
It’s one of the many reasons why the salary cap is so confusing and the arguments over it are so convoluted.
speculation
as is most everything I write about the Saints since I have no affiliation or inside knowledge of the team.
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by Dave Cariello on Jan 6, 2010 9:13 AM CST up reply actions
Thanks Stuart
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by Dave Cariello on Jan 6, 2010 4:17 PM CST up reply actions
you have an uncanny Seinfeld memory
love it
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by Dave Cariello on Jan 6, 2010 6:00 PM CST up reply actions
enough repetition, some of it sticks
Seinfeld, selected M-E outbursts that I find offensive, some Beatle lyrics…. that’s about all I’m good for.
You probably think this song is about you, don't you?
no, man, you got much more lyrics than just Beatles up there...don't sell yourself short
"In the end, the bread was in the pudding." -- Bobby McCray
I DON'T MIND MAKING HISTORY
"much more lyrics"? what in the heck kind of sense does that make?
"In the end, the bread was in the pudding." -- Bobby McCray
I DON'T MIND MAKING HISTORY
Thanks Hans, I follow ya!
I lost ten points just for being in the right place at exactly the wrong time.
good - that's what's important
"In the end, the bread was in the pudding." -- Bobby McCray
I DON'T MIND MAKING HISTORY
Disagree that it's "highly unlikely" a new CBA doesn't get reached this summer.
an uncapped year is a financial nightmare for most of the NFL teams, and the owners will do everything in their power to avoid it. Small market teams like the Saints, Chargers, Jags, Bucs, etc. will have a major disadvantage to the Cowboys, Redskins etc… I will be VERY surprised if a new deal isn’t reached because I just think there’s no way owners will allow that to happen. If a new rule gets implemented at the 11th hour and only applies starting in 2011, teams will be careful about what they sign players for because of the impending cap reforming a year later… so while 2010 wouldn’t be capped, teams would still manage their spendings. Perhaps you’d see a lot of exorbitant one year contracts. I think a lockout is also a possible scenario, but I don’t think “no deal” is very likely. They will meet every deal for hours on end to hammer something out if they can.
Small market teams are only at a disadvantage as far as free-agents are concerned.
The players they have under contract aren’t going anywhere and an uncapped year allows them to jettison dead weight taking up roster spots and salary. Let’s face it, this year’s crop of free-agents doesn’t have much that would dramatically improve the Saints. Top tier players are locked up and we’re too close to winning the big one to not grab or hold on to any pieces that would give us a needed upgrade in an uncapped year. This is an opportunity for owners to hit the reset button on their rosters and force job market-like conditions on the players for a year. I can’t think of a single coach that would pass that up, not even the Bucs.
If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002
Also....
The following players will be RFA if next year is un-capped (as per ESPN)
Mike Bell, Jammal Brown, Jahri Evans, Anthony Hargrove, Roman Harper, Herana-Daze Jones, Lance Moore, Courtney Roby, Zach Strief, David Thomas and Leigh Torrence.
So basically we should sleep soundly, if that’s gonna be the case
You gotta go there to come back
Free agents @ DE
Peppers, Dumervil or Ray Edwards wouldn’t be an upgrade from Chuckwagon?
by WhoDat_OH on Jan 6, 2010 7:30 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
How about
Marcus Spears or Vanden Bosch?
by WhoDat_OH on Jan 6, 2010 7:32 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
DT free agents I like:
Aubrayo Franklin (49ers) and Ryan Pickett (Packers). I think either would fit well.
by WhoDat_OH on Jan 6, 2010 7:37 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Peppers, no...
Dumervil, yes
Edwards, maybe
Spears, Vanden Bosch, Franklin, Pickett… yes. As I said, we’re too close to winning the big one to not pick up one or even two of those guys in an uncapped year. Especially if we can jettison Grant.
If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002
you're right
If I understand it correctly, under the present CBA there is a stipulation if they go to an uncapped year in 2010, Free agents will be considered restricted free agents, giving their original team the ability to keep them. If they come to some new CBA before then, then whatever new rules they agree upon will apply.
In Breesus' name we play
by Breesus Christ Superstar on Jan 7, 2010 5:40 PM CST up reply actions
Not every free agent will be considered restricted
It’s just going to take six years of play to become unrestricted instead of four.
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by Dave Cariello on Jan 7, 2010 8:06 PM CST up reply actions
dont get old
instead of by someone else`s used car ( headaches involved) why dont you get something new and brake it ur self . . might get one like freenie outta the draft
by rockN an rollN on Jan 7, 2010 3:26 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think Grant is worried
If he was, this would have been the year he would have stepped up and performed to show he’s worth his money with all this stuff looming in the off season.
He didn’t, so I guess he isn’t.
I can't front
I keep hoping that Grant will have that break out game which would turn into that break out month and so on and so on. In as much as it hasn’t happened my next question would be how do we get the best value for him? In the past it seems we’ve given away players who did nothing for us we traded them got nothing for them and they went on to be pro bowlers else where. So I don’t want to say good riddance, but play a lil chess build up the potential value and be strategic with a potential probowler else where and get somebody in that fits and wants to be a part of the mardi gras.
We don’t need to sign another malcontent with motivation problems. Peppers has never played up to his potential, and he still demands gargantuan money in return for a lot of invisible play.
BURN THE BLACK PANTS!!!
The only you get Peppers
Is you to guarantee him the money and him guarantee he’ll give you 100%. My money says he does’nt get his money.
I'll be your huckleberry- Doc Holliday to Ringo
sorry Charlie
big fat contract +
lack of commensurate production +
noticeable weight issues +
legal trouble in Georgia still pending +
potential StarCaps suspension still out there +
young bucks like Anthony Hargrove needing playing time =
release
or
at least a serious restructuring
Being a Saints fan will take years off your life
by MobileSaint on Jan 6, 2010 1:30 PM CST reply actions 6 recs
that about sums it up
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by Dave Cariello on Jan 6, 2010 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
think about it
we’re paying him 70 mil. , would grant be a starter on any of the more elite defenses in the league? hell no he wouldnt, he’s a 70 million dollar back up
"These two teams just should not play each other" ...John Madden during a 1991 Saints-Eagles game
if i could say it better I would - boom rec
"I think we agree, the past is over" - George W Bush
"The greatest enemy of knowlege is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge" Stephen Hawking
Now would be the time to cut him
Cutting him would cause the Saints to incur a salary cap penalty the following year. If next year is uncapped then that would make the pill a lot easier to swallow. If Anthony Hargrove steps up to improve the D-Line then it will be money well spent.
"That Brees is a good quarterback." - Giants Free Safety Michael Johnson after a 48-27 Saints victory.
we need to fax this over to Mickey Loomis
Hans, what’s that fax number again? Oh hell, he probably had it changed after that last time we tried to kibbitz.
You probably think this song is about you, don't you?
Mickey's fax number....I think I had that written down in my rolodex, right next to his car phone number
I’ll have to get back to you..what’s your beeper number, Stu?
"In the end, the bread was in the pudding." -- Bobby McCray
I DON'T MIND MAKING HISTORY
haha
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by Dave Cariello on Jan 7, 2010 10:15 PM CST up reply actions
No. Because of the uncapped year, cutting him during this year would accelerate all penalties into this year. We have to wait until the new league year starts and hope that it’s uncapped.
right
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by Dave Cariello on Jan 7, 2010 3:00 PM CST up reply actions
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