Can't Hartley Kick
by Dave Cariello on Oct 18, 2010 9:00 AM CDT
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PrintLet's not waste any time or beat around the bush regarding this issue: The Saints have some kicker problems.
After returning from a two game hiatus, Garrett Hartley is still pulling his kicks and displaying inconsistency. So far this season, Hartley has only made five of his nine attempts, or 56% of his kicks. Fortunately, the Saints really didn't need him this week in their blowout of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers but those aren't the kind of odds I want to see when my teams kicker has the game on his shoulders. In fact, given those odds I'm not so sure the Saints would have narrowly defeated the Panthers in week four if Hartley was the teams active kicker.
But where do the Saints go from here? The old 'Signing John Carney' trick didn't work this time. Should the Saints just stand pat with Hartley? Or is it time to bring in someone else? Will Carney make yet another appearance?
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Looked to me like.....
the miss on Sunday was tipped at the line. I haven’t seen it again, but would be interested in hearing from someone to confirm or deny the ball was tipped…
DON'T STOP 'TIL WE REACH THE TOP!!!!!!!!
Another SAINTS fan in Panther country!
GEAUX SAINTS!!!!!!!!!!!
WHO DAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
two good kickers... both hooking left and ball traveling low..
could we have a holder problem??
I say we keep Hartley, all the NFL teams right now are having kicker issues. We are not the only team to have this issue, it would be a shame to get rid of him so soon.
Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson
Agreed......
FG kicking league wide it atrcious!
DON'T STOP 'TIL WE REACH THE TOP!!!!!!!!
Another SAINTS fan in Panther country!
GEAUX SAINTS!!!!!!!!!!!
WHO DAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by SAINTSfaninNC on Oct 18, 2010 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Ehhhh
You don’t see houston games did you? Lost three games for them by missing FGs at 0:00 just last year alone.
Week 7 matchup: Browns
Week 7 motto: Keep it rolling, keep it moving, don't stop till the whistle blows.
As opposed to missing 2 big ones this year that hurt
the atl and arizona one. Then also missing the ones vs the Vikings.
Kris Brown could not be any worse than Hartley. Get him in here for competition
by touchdown my pants on Oct 18, 2010 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
He killed the Atl game yes,
But ARI is on Carney. Missing against the Vikings didn’t matter in the end. I’m not sure what to say about Hartley, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he is making it harder and harder.
Week 7 matchup: Browns
Week 7 motto: Keep it rolling, keep it moving, don't stop till the whistle blows.
I don't care who missed what
our KICKER missed atl and arizona. Hartley and Carney both needed to go after last week. half way there. This is a what have you done for me lately league, they’ve done nothing. Last year is over.
by touchdown my pants on Oct 18, 2010 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
It should be noted that, DESPITE the fact John Carney was available, the Giants opted to bring in Shayne Graham to fill in for Lawrence Tynes this week. Carney, as you might recall, filled in for Tynes much of the 2008 season. Why doesn’t Coughlin still see the same sparkle in the old man’s eye that Payton does? Seems to me that Sean’s the coach in the entire league with a raging boner for the guy.
"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper
Hartley...
keeps pulling his FG attempts to the left. When they put that last miss on the Left hash mark, I knew that he wasn’t going to make the FG. However, when he kicks a PAT, the ball is as straight as can be… which I don’t get. Since that’s the case, I think his FG problems are correctable. I just don’t know how much slack SP is going to give him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qais_eGMnWk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39GH-nzrY_I&feature=relatde
If I remember correctly
The one he made was from the right and he almost pulled it left.
Score more touchdowns
Problem solved. Sheesh, it isn’t rocket surgery, people.
by Nabb1 on Oct 18, 2010 10:02 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I ain't having no surgery on MY rocket!
lol…good one
"It's about time that something good like this happened." - Drew Brees
i really think that there are only so many good kickers around the league
just like the qb position (im not comparing their relative importance). we all thought that we had one of them, but 56% isnt close to good enough. how long do kickers practice? do they kick balls the entire time the rest of the team is practicing? it sure doesnt seem like it. on a positive note, we havent missed any extra points…. lets just score more td’s.
"As a Saint fan I watch ‘Gone with the Wind’ just to watch Atlanta burn" -Ralph Malbrough
by DrewBreesManCrush on Oct 18, 2010 10:04 AM CDT reply actions
ive got the link for his kick, the ball was def tipped
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d81b697ac/Hartley-33-yd-missed-FG
"As a Saint fan I watch ‘Gone with the Wind’ just to watch Atlanta burn" -Ralph Malbrough
by DrewBreesManCrush on Oct 18, 2010 10:14 AM CDT reply actions
im dling the program to watch it in hd now
"As a Saint fan I watch ‘Gone with the Wind’ just to watch Atlanta burn" -Ralph Malbrough
by DrewBreesManCrush on Oct 18, 2010 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks DBMC....
have troubling watching videos at work!
DON'T STOP 'TIL WE REACH THE TOP!!!!!!!!
Another SAINTS fan in Panther country!
GEAUX SAINTS!!!!!!!!!!!
WHO DAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by SAINTSfaninNC on Oct 18, 2010 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions
looks like either no 70 or 93 got a hand on it
the quality could be better, so i cant really tell but they never really did show the replay after he missed. i thought he just missed it, since it was exactly what i was expecting.
"As a Saint fan I watch ‘Gone with the Wind’ just to watch Atlanta burn" -Ralph Malbrough
by DrewBreesManCrush on Oct 18, 2010 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
It does look like it was blocked. That doesn’t mean it’s not Hartley’s fault, though. He may not have gotten enough lift on the ball. There are standards for that, as with hang time on punts, etc. I’m sure Payton will determine fault and address it soon enough.
"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper
Conversely, it’s difficult to gauge LOS penetration from that angle. If his guy is giving ground before the leap, that’s going to lessen the vertical necessary to deflect it.
"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper
In reference to your “not getting enough lift” comment. Personally I’ve been noticing ever since Hartley started kicking for us that he doesn’t get enough lift on his kicks. There’s been numerous times I’ve watched replays were the ball would have been blocked if a defender only had his hand a few inches either way from where he was. I’ve never thought he’s gotten any lift into his kicks.
Sure......
Just thought I would through the tip thing and the calls Garrett’s job would subside.
DON'T STOP 'TIL WE REACH THE TOP!!!!!!!!
Another SAINTS fan in Panther country!
GEAUX SAINTS!!!!!!!!!!!
WHO DAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by SAINTSfaninNC on Oct 18, 2010 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
im not saying it wasnt hartleys fault
i just think its easier to fix the protection or the height of his kicks rather than outright choking and pulling a 33yd fg. by no means do i want to see carney or another kicker brought in for tryouts again.
"As a Saint fan I watch ‘Gone with the Wind’ just to watch Atlanta burn" -Ralph Malbrough
by DrewBreesManCrush on Oct 18, 2010 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
When you are only kicking from 33 yards out there is no reason for not getting the ball up quickly. You can angle it straight up and let the wind carry it in from that close.
"I want to hand this trophy to the MVP of the Super Bowl -- and the MVP of the entire league.''
-- Saints coach Sean Payton, handing the Vince Lombardi Trophy to Drew Brees after Super Bowl 44.
by VAsaintsfan on Oct 18, 2010 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Why kick field goals?
Im not sure, but it seems like at some point the Saints would net more points if they just went for it on more 4th downs inside the 35 yard line. I no nothing about statistics, but it seems like if you are kicking for 3 points at a clip of 56%, and you are scoring TDs inside the 35 yd line at a rate of 25% (I made that number up), than the 1.75 pts per td attempt is higher than the 1.6 pts per field goal attempt. Anyway, there must be some way to crunch the stats depending on the 4th and distance, the field goal distance etc…..but it seems to me that the Saints are playing it pretty conservative trying for so many field goals when they could be going for touchdowns. That doesnt even factor in time of possession and field position which I guess would also need to be analyzed. Maybe the real answer is pooch punts. Or Thomas Morstead kicking field goals….
by jamaican drew brees on Oct 18, 2010 10:16 AM CDT reply actions
Advisory
Things seemed to work well when Carney was the “Kicking Consultant” last year…why not that?
exactly what i was thinking
Superbowl bound!!!...I know! do you?! Go Saints!!
by skinnykinney on Oct 18, 2010 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Hartley
HAS TO GO! Saints kickers have left too many points on the field this season and it has hurt the team offensively and defensively. ASsmuch as i want Hartley to turn into Morten Andersen, it aint gonna happen. Time for SP to cut all his sappy, man-crush, one liners and make a decision that sends a message to everyone on the team that if you dont do your job, your otta here.
that's all fine and good, but who's out there that is better?
If we’re going to cut him, we should be getting an upgrade. Hartley can make any kick… of course, he apparently can miss any kick as well.
"But tonight the Superbowl belongs to the City of New Orleans" - Roger Goodell 2/7/2010
First, we don’t know that Hartley won’t turn into a great kicker. He’s young, he’s kicked better before. Last year we called him “Money.” He’s just in a slump. You don’t cut someone for being in a slump, especially when there’s no one available who promises to be any better.
Second…there’s no one out there who promises to be any better. Even Stephen Gostkowski is having his troubles this season.
What SP really needs to do is listen to stujo, and call in Dr. Melfi.
It was worth the wait.
I don't think anyone out there is gonna be better
PLUS I think whatever the problem is, it’s in Hartley’s head. I think we ought to give him a chance to get his head right. He earned it from the end of last year.
That being said, if he doesn’t get better this year, than we have to look elsewhere.
Question
Do teams usually replace their kicker with someone not familiar with the team in the middle of the season? Does familiarity not count with kickers?
Breesus Is My Homeboy
"displaying inconsistency"
Is it inconsistent? Seems they all (even the ones he makes) hook the same direction.
Could it be another part of the kicking process that’s causing the hook?
What are the mechanics of a hold for a field goal attempt and how do they compare from this year to last year? The only thing I can think of is that there’s a different holder since Brunell isn’t here anymore. If the new holder is putting it at a slightly different angle or not getting a good hold on the ball could that make the kick consistently hook in the same direction?
It also seemed Carney’s miss (and makes) also hooked the same direction, that’s why it seems like there could be some other mechanic not being done right.
Maybe we could just tell Hartley to rotate his standing posture on the approach a few degrees to account for the consistent hook lol
It's inconsistent as far as which ones hook THROUGH the uprights
and which ones hook to EITHER SIDE of the uprights.
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by Dave Cariello on Oct 18, 2010 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Not sure if this matters or not.
But I have to note that Hartley is incredibly consistent in one area. His kickoffs are almost always between the 5 yard and goal line. Every time. Never into the end zone.
Maybe his adding of kickoff duties is too much for him at this point. (And frankly, Morestead was better at it anyway.) I say bring Carney back as a consultant again, have Morestead handle kickoffs and see if that solves Hartley’s problems.
If we are going to make a kicker change let’s have Morestead do all the kicks
Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson
Too risky. Had the New England exhibition game counted, we would have been playing without both a punter and a kicker.
"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper
exactly
and we don’t have OchoCinco to go out and kick FGs for us
Superbowl bound!!!...I know! do you?! Go Saints!!
by skinnykinney on Oct 18, 2010 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Or to laugh at either.
But that’s why I suggest keeping Hartley to still kick FGs with Carney helping him with the mental game by talking in his ear every day and every game and every kick. Just let Morestead do what he’s better at than Hartley anyway.
he did just fine for the most part when Carney was his "mentor"
I’d love to see them go back to that
Superbowl bound!!!...I know! do you?! Go Saints!!
by skinnykinney on Oct 20, 2010 1:54 AM CDT up reply actions
sex panther... 60% of the time, it works every time
"As a Saint fan I watch ‘Gone with the Wind’ just to watch Atlanta burn" -Ralph Malbrough
by DrewBreesManCrush on Oct 18, 2010 1:59 PM CDT reply actions
Easy
We can't win at home. We can't win on the road. I just can't figure out where else to play!
-- Pat Williams
by Fat Punk Kicker on Oct 18, 2010 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I've said it before and I'll say it again
The placekicking position is CURSED (not the black pants – they’re just ugly).
No matter who we bring in, they are doomed to fail. Whether this is Payton’s karma, or simply a test to see if he’ll stick with a kicker longer than a partial season, I don’t know.
I think we should stick with Hartley for the whole season, and just use him as little as possible. Steve Spurrier did ok @ Florida hardly ever using his kicker.
Just think about what an expanded “four-down” territory gives to our offense…
It's gonna be a great year.
let the shouting out at this idea begin 3...2...1...now
It's gonna be a great year.
by Hans Petersen on Oct 18, 2010 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
No shouting needed. I agree. Just go for it. If our offense is clicking and in rythym, no one should be able to consistently stop us from getting 10 yards in 4 downs. The percentages should be better than our kicking percentage anyway.
"Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth." --Mike Tyson
Oh HELL NO. I live in Cincinnati and they are my #2 team. (Picked them up to keep peace in the family.)
Graham is fine for routine kicks in non-pressure situations. If you need him to kick a game winner or a playoff game, just forget it and go for it on 4th down.
Shayne does good charity work. And that’s the only think I can think of about him that I would consider a positive.
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