Reggie Bush on kickoff returns
by coldpizza on Dec 20, 2010 11:12 AM CST
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Reggie Bush returned the first kickoff of his professional career yesterday. I've had this discussion with friends numerous times, though rarely have I seen it brought up on these forums. Why isn't this one of his regular assignments? No knock on Courtney Roby, but if you have a lightning quick player that has difficulty visualizing his blocking lanes, wouldn't the natural solution be to give him MORE TIME to see the field in front of him? Compared to returning punts, there's considerably less trajectory on a kickoff. Instead of staring up at the ball for those extra couple of seconds, he could be deciding what sliver of daylight he's going to hit. Conversely, Roby could be used a bit more often as a WR, thereby keeping Thomas and/or Ivory in the backfield rotation. As is, it seems as though you're getting mimimal return from two players, one that arguably isn't worth his salt, no matter where you line him up. Outside of fumbling or getting injured, what's the worst that could possibly happen, if Bush were to continue in this capacity? Discuss.
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If he dropped the ball on a kickoff
he’d have more time to pick it up.
"In fact with that article from today that had him real lean and everything, I think I’m going to play him at corner this week in place of Tracy Porter."-Greg Williams in refefernce to Sedrick Ellis
LOL
I mean, he almost returned that one yesterday before throwing it back (forward?) when the kicker got at him. At the same time, the speed at which those returners get hit is unreal…so I don’t know about that. Still…
2010 is cuzzin's breakout year...run with that chip bruh!
I thought of that idea before
It would just give him more time to run Backwards and East and West
Your one and only..Professional Sports Blogger!
I’ve been thinking for some time now that Roby could be used as a WR
Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson
imho, we don’t need another receiver to add to the 7 Drew already spreads the ball around to – 4 WR’s + 3 TE’s.
I was talking to a friend while watching the game, PONDERING the possibilty that having FEWER targets might give Drew more time to develop rapport and practice, making his throws/options for each guy more effective.
"You can't be king of the world, if you're a slave to the grind."
Also giving the opponents time to game plan against fewer targets making their defense for each guy more effective.
It’s a double edged sword, my friend.
We won a Superbowl throwing to everybody in the stadium including the beer guys. I’ll take it.
Fat, dumb, and happy. Hell, two out of three ain't bad!
I Want To Die In My Sleep Like My Grandpa – Not Screaming and Yelling Like His Passengers.
by Just 'Nother Day on Dec 20, 2010 8:05 PM CST up reply actions
Don't forget the hamburger guy...
He caught some in the NFCCG.
Week 16 matchup: Falcons
Week 16 motto: BLACK PANTS MUST BE BURNED!!
Have a Merry Christmas
I was just pondering… but, I do think that more time with fewer guys would help… and, you can gameplan for them all day, if they make a move and Drew knows when it’s going to be (because of that rapport) and the defender doesn’t he’s gonna be open and Drew will know where he needs to put it.
(I’m just thinking out loud… it’s not a conclusion or hard case.)
"You can't be king of the world, if you're a slave to the grind."
Or maybe Drew should spend more time with all the receivers?
Less personal time for him, but dammit I wanna win.
Week 16 matchup: Falcons
Week 16 motto: BLACK PANTS MUST BE BURNED!!
Have a Merry Christmas
I've always wanted to like reggie
I fell for his great “potential”. But yesterday put the final nail in the coffin. Get rid of him.
"If you ask ME, though, any game without push-ups, hits, burns or noogies is a sissy game" Calvin to Hobbes
Amen Maybetoday
I’ve been pulling for him for 5 seasons waiting for him to perform like he should and he hasn’t. It’s time to make a change in that area. We need someone that’s capable of getting positive yardage, not losing 10 yards on tosses or screens
Your one and only..Professional Sports Blogger!
how did this happen?
Did you see the game? He had no where to go and if it wasn’t for Reggie, we get nothing before the half.
2010 is cuzzin's breakout year...run with that chip bruh!
I’m also tired of waiting for Reggie to rise to what was once considered to be his “potential”. But, with that said, he certainly wasn’t the reason we lost to the Ravens. The negative yard plays were more due to being badly conceived than they were Reggie’s execution after the fact. The lost yardage on the screen pass, in particular, was Drew’s fault. That pass should have never been thrown as it was obvious he was going to get hammered the second he caught the ball. The outcome on that play wouldn’t have been any different regardless of who was on the receiving end..
by Drew-Dat on Dec 20, 2010 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
BINGO!
Although my faith in Reggie is getting much harder to sustain, I think Drew should have just thrown that ball away. There were at least two defenders under full steam heading straight for Bush. Another split second and it might have been an INT.
Reggie gets a Mulligan on that play. As for the rest of his performance? Not one bit better than average in the league.
Fat, dumb, and happy. Hell, two out of three ain't bad!
I Want To Die In My Sleep Like My Grandpa – Not Screaming and Yelling Like His Passengers.
by Just 'Nother Day on Dec 20, 2010 4:49 PM CST up reply actions
one of them was a negative 2006esque Reggie...
But that’s who he is, that’s going to happen with him. If he got the ball regularly, I’m sure he’d make up for that. Kinda like how with Drew, you’re going to get some balls batted down…just the nature of being imperfect.
2010 is cuzzin's breakout year...run with that chip bruh!
Injury concerns
I think it goes back to the fact that the risk of injury is greater in a kick-off (those guys run basically flat out) and Payton values Reggie a lot….
Bring the metal....
He's just not mentally made up for kick-off returns.
You see this in his punt return game as well. On a kick-off return you don’t think…you just go. You run hard and fast and make split second decisions when a seam opens up. Reggie doesn’t do this. He doesn’t follow blockers well, he doesn’t make heady and quick decisions, he likes to dance and juke. That’s the last thing you do on a kick-off return. Just watch his punt returns, even when he’s in the open when he catches the ball (extraordinarily rare with our punt block units but it has happened) he doesn’t catch the ball and bolt. He catches the ball and surveys.
"Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not 'every man for himself.' And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked 'em up."
See, I’m thinking just the opposite. That a kickoff returner is more of a surveyer, than operating off of instinct. Not that I’ve ever done either in my life.
"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper
Re: #25 ... CUT THAT CHUMP.
In the past i would have agreed. But with the change to the blocking rules on kick-offs I don’t think that applies anymore. You can’t sit behind your wall, survey and break. It’s become a lot more quick read/react in my opinion.
"Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not 'every man for himself.' And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked 'em up."
I agree, I think he'd be better at KR
easier catch, and time to look up field. PT is considerably slower on KR.
You think you know, and you don't know, and you never, ever will.-Jim Mora Sr.
Bears, Beets, Battlestar Galactica-Jim Halpert
What?
I mean seriously, you’re just spouting off junk based on your dislike for the dude. Kickoffs and Punt returns are different monsters. You have a little room to work with on kick offs so of course your gonna run hard. With the way that our punt blocking is, he’s always had little to no time to do much. I’m sure if he was put back there he’d be fine but I wouldn’t want to risk it…
2010 is cuzzin's breakout year...run with that chip bruh!
What?
You’re just spouting off junk because you obviously are in love with the dude. See what I did there? I don’t hate Reggie. I just realize what he is, a third down back.
"Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not 'every man for himself.' And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked 'em up."
I'd believe that if you EVER had something good to say about him...
At least CP can admit what he thinks of the guy and even then he admitted that 12-yard loss was on drew. If you didn’t hate him then why is he getting the goat when obviously the Ravens were spelling him and so screens and pitches were getting blown up? Why didn’t you give him credit for the catches that led to the TD before halftime. Why do you ALWAYS have something negative to say about the guy. The difference between my “love” for Reggie and your “recognition of him being a 3rd down back” is that I can admit that there was one play he ran back on during this game. There’s been plays he should have made recently (fumbling in Dallas and not catching a pass) yet you have NEVER (and I can say this confidently) made a positive remark about the dude, period! Talk to me when you can, you suffer from cognitive dissonance my friend, as do a lot of Saints fans when i comes to him. He will NEVER live up to the hype of being drafted #2 in our offense, NEVER. Not with his skill set. A player like Bush needs to be able to be free (so to speak) and in our offense he gets less than 10 touches (not just carries but touches) a game. Yet, you haven’t heard him complain like a lot of players would do in his position (although I think he should leave IMO).
2010 is cuzzin's breakout year...run with that chip bruh!
Not once...ONCE have i EVER said anything bad about Reggie in regard to the game against the Ravens.
I didn’t watch the game, hence i have not commented about Reggie in that game. I have had plenty of good things to say about Reggie throughout the years. You obviously have never paid attention to a thing I’ve ever claimed about the man outside of this one post or a snide remark to CP. The fact is if you polled everyone on this sight who was the most blind hater of Reggie….CP wins hands down. If you poll who is the most blind supporter…sorry buddy…you win that one hands down. He’s a third down back…there’s nothing wrong with that. He doesn’t break tackles, he doesn’t anticipate the hole, he’s a great out of the backfield receiver who’s good in open space. I have no problem with Reggie. What i have a problem with are people like you who refuse to admit he’s not worth what we’re paying him and he’s simply not a true difference maker at the running back position.
There have been two games…TWO that i can recall where he has made an impact as a running back where his play dictated the outcome of the game. The first was his rookie year against San Francisco. The second was his second year against Seattle in Seattle where it halted our 4 game skid. Two games in Five years. I admit his play against Arizona in the playoffs was great, however, we so dominated that game in every aspect his play was not the contributing factor. We can’t pay some guy more than Peterson, Rice, and MJD combined to be a non-factor. I’ve praised his receptions in the past, I’ve praised his running in the past, hell once I even praised when he made a great block. Don’t sit there and say i have Never said a good word about the guy because you obviously don’t have a damn clue. Maybe you should take off your Bush jersey and look in the mirror.
"Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not 'every man for himself.' And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked 'em up."
by jeff.l.b on Dec 20, 2010 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
my bad you're correct...
I got you mixed up with one of them other cat’s that spill off at the mouth and their names start with J. So you’re right there.
Anyway, here’s a couple other games: Look up the Giants game in his rookie season. Also look up Denver in 2008. Other than that you’re not going to find many games with him over 12 carries. You are right, in that I am the resident supporter of Bush. However, I can admit when the dude sucks! I’m not blind, it’s just when you juxtapose my incessant praise or whatever you want to call it of him to others ridiculous bashing, it looks like jock-holding. He’s had games like that for sure! However, he doesn’t break tackles is a 2008 comment on Reggie, he’s been putting his shoulder down since last year. But how much do you have to go from. Not much, Payton uses him more as a decoy than anything. He had plenty of games since last year especially (Buffalo, NY Jets, Rams and several others) where he was doing well with his carries as an running back but never saw more than the carries he’s had. It’s pretty much been that way his whole career. Sure, he’s not worth the money to us. I agree. I say trade him, somebody will pick him up at 3-5 a year with bonus options but they’ll actually give him the ball. On this team it won’t work, we’re a spread offense in every way (formations and spreading it around) Payton seems to like using him in other ways and to him and Loomis, he’s worth it! I just see it as we don’t know what he can do, he gets 5 carries and 10 yards we say he sucks. He gets 5 carries and 40 yards, oh he’s finally running north and south but don’t give him the ball more because his body can’t handle it. He had a torn meniscus and a broken leg. That’s it! It’s all perception homie. If McCoy and C. Johnson can do it, so can Reggie. I just believe it’s a mass deception and if a person has decided that he’s this or that, no matter what he does he can’t escape that. Kinda like how I’ve always thought, and still think, that Jordan Farmar sucks, no matter what he does. A part of that is because he went to UCLA (hate them) a part of that is that I’ve just decided he doesn’t play the way I think a pg should play (a la D. Rose, D. williams and the like) but I can admit that it’s my personal opinion and bias. I don’t think the Bush detractors can.
Again, my bad, mixed you up with the other J’s.
2010 is cuzzin's breakout year...run with that chip bruh!
If you take the several games per year he inevitably misses with injury(the most consistent aspect of his career, by far) into account, his per-game salary is in the Eli Manning/Julius Peppers strata. From that angle, I would say he plays just below the average of a player in that pay grade.
"The Colts were punching at it and grabbing for it, trying to get it out. But I didn't care if they broke all my fingers. There was absolutely no way in the world I was going to let go of that ball. That was our ball.''-Chris Reis
by FuSoYa on Dec 21, 2010 7:08 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
That was sarcasm right? How can you possibly say a situational back who hasn’t been playing very well and has been injured this year is playing just below the average player in terms of pay grade when he’s in the pay grade of franchise QBs and perennial sack leaders?
"Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not 'every man for himself.' And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked 'em up."
He's just not mentally made up for kick-off returns.
You see this in his punt return game as well. On a kick-off return you don’t think…you just go. You run hard and fast and make split second decisions when a seam opens up. Reggie doesn’t do this. He doesn’t follow blockers well, he doesn’t make heady and quick decisions, he likes to dance and juke. That’s the last thing you do on a kick-off return. Just watch his punt returns, even when he’s in the open when he catches the ball (extraordinarily rare with our punt block units but it has happened) he doesn’t catch the ball and bolt. He catches the ball and surveys.
"Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not 'every man for himself.' And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked 'em up."
Injury concerns
I think it goes back to the fact that the risk of injury is greater in a kick-off (those guys run basically flat out) and Payton values Reggie a lot….
Bring the metal....
One post will suffice, mynah birds
"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper
Re: #25 ... CUT THAT CHUMP.
Not my fault...got double posted during a SB Nation hickup.
"Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not 'every man for himself.' And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked 'em up."
Well thats a great idea
Lets give him more oppertunities to run east-west and fumble the ball
World Champions at last
by mississippisaintsfan on Dec 20, 2010 2:43 PM CST reply actions
That worked for Desean yesterday, granted it was a punt.
"Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not 'every man for himself.' And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked 'em up."
I kinda agree with this
even though there are injury concerns. He would have a lot more time to react. Our punt coverage is so bad by the time he brings his head down after the catch he’s stuffed, fumbles because contact is so close or he has to scramble from left to right to try and gain yardage. With kickoff returns he has time and room to use his strengths (his lateral quickness). Look @ when Roby catches the ball 5yds deep in the endzone and goes for it (which kills me by the way) with the amount of time it takes Roby to gather himself and accelerate down the field…it would take Reggie half the time. His speed, even at 80%-90% is uncanny. He has more time and space to make his cuts. He gets a few good blocks next to the sideline and he gone…simple as that. I hope SP at least tries him out on Kick off duty a few times in practice and see how he does.
" I’ve never done drugs but I think watching Matty Ice stare blankly towards the field as Drew Brees kneels down while clock hits zero in a playoff game would be like doing cocaine off a strippers @$$#….yeah that good.
Yes my hatred for Atlanta is unhealthy/ possibly illegal" - Malbrough
by born in areacode 318 on Dec 20, 2010 3:20 PM CST reply actions
Running straight ahead is not in Reggie's vocabulary
He was, is, and will be a perimeter runner the rest of his carreer. That was all he did in college and thats what he does. Same for Tbow as a QB. Hard to break those tendicies. They both had success in college doing what they do.
My Magnificent Black and Gold Warriors
Yep, Reggie still has a tendency to do the freakin' Hokey Pokey.
Fat, dumb, and happy. Hell, two out of three ain't bad!
I Want To Die In My Sleep Like My Grandpa – Not Screaming and Yelling Like His Passengers.
by Just 'Nother Day on Dec 20, 2010 7:09 PM CST up reply actions
In professional football, that’s NOT what it’s all about!
Fat, dumb, and happy. Hell, two out of three ain't bad!
I Want To Die In My Sleep Like My Grandpa – Not Screaming and Yelling Like His Passengers.
by Just 'Nother Day on Dec 20, 2010 7:10 PM CST up reply actions
Let's be real...
If this season has taught us anything we know without a doubt that the Saints do not need Reggie Bush. We can do much better at RB. Isn’t MJD a FA this year!?!?! Dont get me wrong, reggie is a great luxury to have, but his usefulness to this organization ended after we won SB XLIV. Reggie will always have a warm spot in my heart for being part of the saints turnaround but AT THIS POINT, i think its best for all parties (REGGIE, SAINTS AND FANS) to move on.
On a personal note, i’ll always remeber Reggie Bush for singlehandedly dismantling the Fresno State defense by running wild in highlights that replay in my head like “Godfather” on Thanksgiving day. With each of those runs he ruined our hopes at BCS suprememacy all while snatching a program changing victory from my beloved Alma Mater and catapulting the Boise State Broncos into WAC elite and perenial BCS Powerhouse…B^ST^RD!!!!!
Being a playoff team...
There will be restrictions….that is IF we make the playoffs were not a lock just yet!
by Saintsfan4life on Dec 21, 2010 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
I only have one knock on Bush
and thats returining punts….G-A-R-B-A-G-E….Kickoffs would be fun to watch!!
by Saintsfan4life on Dec 21, 2010 10:14 AM CST reply actions
Well we need to find something for him to do well
In Breesus' name we play
by Breesus Christ Superstar on Dec 22, 2010 9:09 AM CST reply actions
My take
Please remember this is just my take from returning kicks in JV. So I am not claiming that the following is gospel in anyway, just my opinion.
Reggie’s style(minus the negative yds and fumbles) bodes well for punts. Especially since our punt blocking always seems to have holes anyway. Players tend to be right around you or close as you catch the ball, so it came naturally for me to pause and juke the first guy or two(usually gunners) and then try to go. The gap that I would see between the gunners and the people coming off the line looked HUGE during punts. Im guessing the hole doesn’t look as big in the NFL though, so who knows. I think Reggie is kinda built for this naturally.
On kickoffs the whole field looks crowded, and they loook further away when you catch it, so you start running, running fast. After you get going 10-15 yds, its hard to change directions. It doesn’t really give him the oppurtunity to change directions. Kickoff blocking as I knew it was a lot more structured than punts. Even though kickoffs take away one of his advantages is his ability to change direction, and a weakness is following blocks, I think Reggie would do suprisingly well here. Why, because he’s fast. If Reggie gets a full head of steam and has a predetermined guide path I think he actually has the skills to break a couple off.
Bottomline, I think Reggie could and should take kickoffs. I think it would make him more of an asset to the team, earn his paycheck, and might even help him get used to running downfield fast and could help his regular rushing attempts as a littel side bonus.
nice
makes sense
It's gonna be a great year.
by Hans Petersen on Dec 25, 2010 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
How about this?
Can you have 2 guys back there to catch a punt? If so why not let it be Reggie and another guy. If someone is going to be close the other guy could be reggie’s eyes on the ground, shouting out 25, 20, 15, etc as the guy gets closer. Then Reggie wouldn’t have to take his eyes off the punt. Once guy number 2 said 15 Reggie could fair catch it. Any thoughts?
SP: "No, No, No. I said 'Let's all take it to the Vikes again' not' Let's all take 2 Vicoden!'"
yes you can have 2 guys back to receive a punt. Why don’t we?….because we can’t block down field on a punt with 10 people blocking…let alone 9.
"Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not 'every man for himself.' And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked 'em up."
yes...yes it does.
"Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not 'every man for himself.' And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked 'em up."
It's after the punt blocking that gets terrible...............slow coverage.
My Magnificent Black and Gold Warriors
is our punt blocking a result of the coach, or the players?
by Ezio_Auditore on Dec 23, 2010 12:06 PM CST via mobile reply actions
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