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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Yes, this case only involves 130 Vicodin pills, but what is really at question is the cover-up, which looks worse than the actual felony. Loomis and the Saints may get past all this with little actually happening to them legally or from the league office, but they still very badly need to take a real hard look at just how they do business — particularly drug business.

about 2 years ago Erindavewhodat_tiny Dave Cariello 43 comments 0 recs  | 

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That was one of the more disjointed articles I've read in a long time.

"They're ready to be like 'Same Old Saints'" - Roman Harper, on each of the New Orleans Saints vanquished foes of 2009

by Hollywoo! on May 17, 2010 10:42 AM CDT reply actions  

It was weird, wasn't it

The whole Jazz Fest thing was just weird.

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by Dave Cariello on May 17, 2010 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

My $.02

I guess I’m more willing to cut Mickey some slack on this. Here’s why: we won the Super Bowl! I’m not saying the end justifies the means. It never does. In fact, this Vicodin scandal happened long before the season started and doesn’t appear to have had any influence on what the team accomplished. The reason I say this is because I think Mickey was so focused on putting together and keeping together a championship-winning team that he didn’t see the possible severity and legal consequences of Vitt taking Vicodin from the team cabinet at the time it happened. So, he brushed it aside in an attempt to not disrupt what the team was preparing to do. It worked. We finally have a Lombardi trophy.

As for Payton’s involvement, nothing definite has been proven yet. There’s no video of him taking the pills from the cabinet or using them without a prescription. There’s just Santini’s allegations, which may or may not be true. I’m not so willing just yet to believe him and his lawyer. We’ll have to wait and see how this case plays out. I’m thinking that Vitt may be in trouble either legally or with the league and that Payton will emerge relatively cleared of any wrongdoing.

If Mickey did try to keep this under wraps when he shouldn’t have, then I guess he’ll have to face whatever consequences that brings. I’m thinking it won’t be as bad as some are making it out to be (Florio, GAAA!) If he is guilty of wrongdoing, it won’t be the worst case of a GM or CEO ignoring something or keeping things quiet. Wrongdoing far worse than this happens all the time on Wall Street and in Corporate America. Just look at BP and the current crisis in the Gulf. That’s just the most recent example. Goldman Sachs? Enron? What Mickey might have done isn’t even close to what these people did. I know that no one is suggesting it is at this point and I hope it stays that way. Given the recent success of the team, it could get blown up all out of proportion and become a distraction that lasts throughout the upcoming season. I guess that’s what I fear the most.

"As soon as Tony (Dungy) said we had no chance, I knew we had 'em right where we wanted 'em"--Coach Sean Payton right after Super Bowl XLIV with the Lombardi Trophy firmly in hand. WHO DAT!!

by David "Satch" Kelly on May 17, 2010 10:54 AM CDT reply actions  

It is interesting that the Saints and the Jazz Fest are intertwined just a bit in this fiasco of bad calls by the Saints that have woken up in a way the frustrated screams of the franchise’s “glory days” of one- and two-win seasons and fumbles from the opponents’ 1-yard line back to the 50 (versus Chicago in 1973 in Tulane Stadium).
It was from Jazz Fest XLII last April 30 that one of the myriad of attorneys representing the Saints’ many legal and illegal ventures partially funded by millions of state dollars every year that a cellular phone call was made.
At some time that afternoon, a Saints lawyer called another lawyer and said they had not gotten a chance to really look over everything and to go ahead and proceed.

Does Glenn Guilbeau get paid by the Shreveport Times?

I know who i am! I'm the dude playing the dude disguised as another dude!

by MtnExile on May 17, 2010 10:56 AM CDT reply actions  

My point exactly.

Add journalism to the list of things Shreveport sucks at.

"They're ready to be like 'Same Old Saints'" - Roman Harper, on each of the New Orleans Saints vanquished foes of 2009

by Hollywoo! on May 17, 2010 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

He is probably high on pain pills

"The doctors X-rayed my head and found nothing."
Dizzy Dean

by andyp111 on May 17, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

I live near shreveport.

There are somethings that Shreveport is not that good at. You could say the same for every city in the nation. Even the city you live at. How would you respond if someone said New Orleans Sucks?

"I can eat oreos faster than him" Scott Fujita's take on Payton Manning SB44

by jeremysherwin on May 17, 2010 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Depends on what you mean

Obviously, New Orleans sucks at a lot of stuff. I think we mostly know that. (I speak as a former resident.)

I know who i am! I'm the dude playing the dude disguised as another dude!

by MtnExile on May 17, 2010 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

we suck at politics

we suck at crime (or we’re good at it, depending on how you’re looking at it), we suck at paving roads, we suck at building levees.

We’re AWESOME in football though!!!!

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by Dave Cariello on May 17, 2010 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

I would venture to say that every city sucks at politics.

At least you new Mayor is better than his predecessor.

"I can eat oreos faster than him" Scott Fujita's take on Payton Manning SB44

by jeremysherwin on May 17, 2010 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

You gotta give NOLA a pass on the road building

Yeah, the streets are terrible…but they’d be terrible in any city that was sinking.

You want terrible? You should see how it is across the entire state of North Carolina.

I know who i am! I'm the dude playing the dude disguised as another dude!

by MtnExile on May 17, 2010 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or Oklahoma

I once drove through there on I-40 and couldn’t believe how poorly maintained the road was.

"As soon as Tony (Dungy) said we had no chance, I knew we had 'em right where we wanted 'em"--Coach Sean Payton right after Super Bowl XLIV with the Lombardi Trophy firmly in hand. WHO DAT!!

by David "Satch" Kelly on May 17, 2010 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Come up here

You will see why we won the murder capital of Canada several years running. Potholes large enough to swallow cars. A revolving door justice system.

But our beer is stronger. So come on down!

Football is easy if you're crazy as hell

by Grumps on May 17, 2010 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or just visit south New Jersey.

If I am good I could add years to my life / I would rather add some life to my years.

by Jay Preece on May 17, 2010 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

I dare you...

to ride a bike in Montreal.

Extreme cold and heat waves will ruin any pavement. We go from -4 to a 100 degrees every year (That’s Farhenheit just for you guys). Which makes me wonder:

Even if it’s rougly 400 miles south from me, Why the hell would the NFL consider a Super Bowl in New York at the coldest time of the year? Don’t you hate it when Mother Nature “levels” two teams?

I get it…Parity isn’t it?

 

Repeat? Under construction...

by FrenchFreak on May 17, 2010 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ok then, Bossier City sucks.

And no one's getting fat except Mama Cass.

by stujo4 on May 17, 2010 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

You must of had used map quest to find bossier.

Besides Bossier is ran by Texans. It is the polar opposite of what shreveport is.

"I can eat oreos faster than him" Scott Fujita's take on Payton Manning SB44

by jeremysherwin on May 17, 2010 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

So, you’re saying they DO suck?

Bossier-Shreveport Mudbugs hockey team plays the Wichita team, they hate each other. Or is that redundant in hockey?

And no one's getting fat except Mama Cass.

by stujo4 on May 17, 2010 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

The hockey team is actually pretty good.

Bossier compared to shreveport is a better ran city overall.
Better management/police you name it.

Shreveport is known as “Chitport” spelled with an S of course.

"I can eat oreos faster than him" Scott Fujita's take on Payton Manning SB44

by jeremysherwin on May 17, 2010 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not...

if you really mean it.

Repeat? Under construction...

by FrenchFreak on May 17, 2010 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think the league as a whole

probably has some issues to address with how teams handle prescription drugs, and the Saints are probably not the only team to have an issue with this. They just had a problem come up and have a guy who was hell bent on making a big deal out of it and finally has. I’m not saying the Saints handled whatever the situation truly was properly, and maybe Loomis made some decisions that in hindsight were imprudent, but I’m not sure it rises to the level of some huge criminal conspiracy. And I really don’t know enough about what happened to second guess how the Saints’ attorneys handled matters in the weeks before and after the filing of the lawsuit. My hope is that by going to arbitration, the Saints think they can resolve this for good, meaning maybe they think criminal charges are unlikely.

by Nabb1 on May 17, 2010 11:04 AM CDT reply actions  

I was under the impression that Loomis did indeed report the situation. (am i correct in saying that Mr. Dave)

There might have been some facts that he did not report on the situation, but that would be better than not reporting it at all.

Personally I think the horse is dead by now. If you pay attention to the articles on this situation, it basically states the same things and virtually points blame on the saints organization. We do not know what Loomis reported, how he reported it, or what he may or may not have left out. Vitt is toast. That much i think we can all agree on. Everything else that we know is more or less media driven.

"I can eat oreos faster than him" Scott Fujita's take on Payton Manning SB44

by jeremysherwin on May 17, 2010 11:31 AM CDT reply actions  

Loomis DID report the situation to NFL security, that is correct.

But the question is WHAT did he report? Was he honest and forthcoming in his reporting?

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by Dave Cariello on May 17, 2010 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Loomis reported

that the key to the Vicodin cabinet was kept in Vickie’s desk drawer

"Bow Down Before The One You Serve"

by MobileSaint on May 17, 2010 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Did he just report that? Or was there more?

I am supprised the media has not found out anymore information of what Loomis did report.

"I can eat oreos faster than him" Scott Fujita's take on Payton Manning SB44

by jeremysherwin on May 17, 2010 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Even though he reported it

there are things he may have done initially that were inappropriate. If he tried to just sweep the affair under the rug at first, that would have been wrong, but if he eventually did everything he was supposed to, then I would categorize any mishandling as a venial sin rather than a cardinal sin.

by Nabb1 on May 17, 2010 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

A person who is has a lot of responsibility such as M. Loomis,

would indeed want to protect the interests of his business/position as much as possible. If it was possible for him to hide the entire ordeal from prying eyes i think he would. He did however wise up after the conversation he had with Santini to the idea that legally he did have to report it.

If Loomis did not report anything, then i would think it would be a more severe legal situation he may be facing. The fact that he did report it bodes well for him. Most of the media reporting on this fails to recgonize this. They conviently leave this out. this gives the reader the impression that it was a complete cover up. A cover up in the traditional sense to me would signify nothing was done about a situation. Everything was done to keep everyone oblivious to the situation. This did not occur. He did report the situation to the proper agency. Mistakes are always made. I nor know at this particular time if mistakes were made. If they were made we do not know if they were intentional or not. Would we have Loomis going to the media about the situation when it occured almost a year ago?

"I can eat oreos faster than him" Scott Fujita's take on Payton Manning SB44

by jeremysherwin on May 17, 2010 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Mistakes are always made"

I nor you know at this particular time if mistakes were made

"I can eat oreos faster than him" Scott Fujita's take on Payton Manning SB44

by jeremysherwin on May 17, 2010 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

I believe it may have been Dave who pointed this out

in the very beginning: where Loomis could get in trouble is if he lied to Benson about anything. Eventually doing the right thing may save his butt, so long as he never deceived the boss. I’d fire him too, if that were the case, because then it’s no longer a question of judgment, but trust.

I know who i am! I'm the dude playing the dude disguised as another dude!

by MtnExile on May 17, 2010 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

From what i understood about the situation is that if benson was decieved it was about Sean Payton's involvement.

In addition i thought he was hardly mentioned in the law suit.

"I can eat oreos faster than him" Scott Fujita's take on Payton Manning SB44

by jeremysherwin on May 17, 2010 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Benson strikes me as the type who'd rather not know all the details

He seems to me like the type who’d rather leave all this stuff to the people he’s paying very large salaries to in expectations that they handle it. A lot of top bosses are that way. Just remembering what he’s said about the team last year, at the SB celebration, and recently when he made some ill-advised comments to someone in the media about this Vicodin thing, it makes me believe that he’s kinda outta the loop when it comes to the details of running the team. A better question is if Mickey told Rita or not. She seems like she’s more in the loop right now than Mr. Benson.

"As soon as Tony (Dungy) said we had no chance, I knew we had 'em right where we wanted 'em"--Coach Sean Payton right after Super Bowl XLIV with the Lombardi Trophy firmly in hand. WHO DAT!!

by David "Satch" Kelly on May 17, 2010 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

There’s a big difference between not saying anything about it, and telling Benson “it’s no big deal, just a disgruntled employee, nothing to it, don’t worry.” If that’s what Loomis did do…like I said, I’d fire him too. I’d cry while I was doing it, and I’d have to punish myself afterwards, though. I’d have to iron my fingers.

I know who i am! I'm the dude playing the dude disguised as another dude!

by MtnExile on May 17, 2010 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let's hope it's not that serious.

Whatever happened, it would be difficult for me to fire a GM after just winning the SB. I have to believe Mickey didn’t and wouldn’t do something so egregious. There has to be more nuance to it than that.

"As soon as Tony (Dungy) said we had no chance, I knew we had 'em right where we wanted 'em"--Coach Sean Payton right after Super Bowl XLIV with the Lombardi Trophy firmly in hand. WHO DAT!!

by David "Satch" Kelly on May 17, 2010 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I did say that.

Take away any outside lawsuit or charges or anything, you still may have the issue of Loomis lying (or not being TOTALLY truthful) to his boss, Benson. From what I’ve heard, Benson doesn’t like being lied to.

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by Dave Cariello on May 17, 2010 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Please fellow Saints fans

Don’t fall for the Guilbeau bait…

by Billy Gomila on May 17, 2010 11:52 AM CDT reply actions  

Shrug.

That’s all I’ve got left for this story. A shrug. I don’t care what some columnist, whether Peter King, Mike Douchebag Florio or Glenn Guilbeau, thinks the Saints did, or what they think they should have done. They have no more to base their opinions on than we do, which is merely what Santini’s lawsuit accused them of and what Santini hinted at with weasel words in his interview.

If I am good I could add years to my life / I would rather add some life to my years.

by Jay Preece on May 17, 2010 1:45 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

btw

If anyone wants to read more pure speculation, here:

The lawsuit will be gone after arbitration, the Saints won’t face criminal charges (if you’d like to start a grudge list, Dave, here’s an opportunity), and we’ll dismiss the whole thing as having been blown out of proportion by a story-hungry offseason press.

If I am good I could add years to my life / I would rather add some life to my years.

by Jay Preece on May 17, 2010 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hope that’s all true. Including the grudge list part.

And no one's getting fat except Mama Cass.

by stujo4 on May 17, 2010 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

no grudge list

hope you’re right

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by Dave Cariello on May 17, 2010 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hard to believe...

a man who has been a FBI agent for 31 years, and helped toast a crooked governor, would JUST want money out of it. From what I read around the web, this man has a pretty good reputation for being by the book and could probably be looked upon as someone who’s just trying to protect his long earned credibility. And yes, a nice retirement plan too…

Santini said in the interview that he believed he was saving the situation but that after he brought it to the attention of Loomis, he deemed it necessary to protect himself and began wearing a wire. He recorded conversations with head trainer Scottie Patton, assistant trainer Kevin Mangum and Loomis.

"It broke my heart to have to put a recorder on these people," Santini told USA Today. “Let’s make one thing perfectly clear, I have no ill will against the Saints.”

When Santini was called to meet with owner Tom Benson, he appealed to Loomis one more time. Santini alleges that Loomis had shared only certain details with the owner and told Benson that Payton had a medical condition to take Vicodin.

“I begged Mickey Loomis,” Santini said. "I said, ’Now’s the opportunity to tell him everything. We can get this out on the table so at least the owner is fully aware. He owns the team. He’s the boss. And if we get him fully knowledgeable, then we’re safe.’ But Mickey didn’t want to do that.

“He was protecting Payton. That day pretty much ended it for me.”

-Brad Biggs, Yahoo Sports, May 12th

I’m sure you guys noticed it as much as I did when Payton said he never “abused or stole Vicodin”. What about not taking it at all? Carefully written words by Saints’ attorneys I guess…

I do think Sean got addicted and Loomis tried to cover it up. Once everything is said and done, I’ll be happy with just a suspension by the NFL. And please avoid putting me on any grudge list for saying so cause this one will probably bite you back.

Repeat? Under construction...

by FrenchFreak on May 17, 2010 7:24 PM CDT reply actions  

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