Opinion: Vicodin Scandal Proves Need for League-Wide Reform
by Dave Cariello on May 9, 2010 6:00 AM CDT
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PrintAmidst the flurry of allegations and accusations surrounding the recent Saints vicodin scandal, there is one glaring truth that cannot be questioned or ignored: drug policy within the NFL needs to be reformed.
Regardless of whether the claims of drug theft and abuse in Geoff Santini's pending civil lawsuit against the Saints organization are accurate or just an extortion plot carried out by an opportunistic former employee, the subsequent information that has come to the surface in the aftermath or these accusations paint a picture of a complacent league that has allowed a laissez-fair drug culture to run rampant for years.
Former defensive end Burt Grossman sums it all up in an article he recently wrote for the National Football Post...
Vicodin is easier to get in the NFL than herpes. The NFL runs on pain medication, from the locker room to the coaches' offices.
How else can we assume this? Well, the original lawsuit filed by the former FBI veteran Santini boldly claims that the Saints were playing fast and loose with pain pills...
...the 100 count vicodin bottles had been obtained for the Saints via prescription issued by Dr. Amoss in the name of the Saints, not an individual, and filled at Walgreens. The issuance of prescriptions not in the name of an individual and the maintenance and operation of a dispensing clinic or drug cabinet for narcotics without the proper license or permit are violation of federal and state law.
Whether or not these actions are illegal may now be up to a court to decide but for years, it would seem that this was a somewhat standard practice within the NFL, though not necessarily shared by all teams. Last week, an anonymous NFL trainer shed some light on this practice in an article in the NY Daily News...
"In the old days, it is what every club used to do. Some trainers at professional and college level got into hot water over it. There are a lot newer ways to do it. A lot of trainers feel like me. I call the doctor. He calls the prescription in."
"The Saints apparently keep stock on hand. I don't," the trainer told the Daily News on Monday. "I have a pharmacy deliver two or three times a day as needed. Everything is individually wrapped with a player's name on it. I don't keep anything in our safe. I don't keep medications now.
"I get it delivered and hand it out for the people that it is for. Then you don't have these kind of issues. When you have a big bulk of medications is when you have pills missing. That's what we are all trying to avoid."
While some teams may be smart or forward-thinking enough to abandon an outdated and somewhat dangerous policy, it's also a system that seems to be acknowledged by the league as acceptable. Why else would they require record keeping for pills?
"As long as the doctor writes the prescription, you can keep it on hand as bulk medication,"...
The trainer said within five days of receiving the medication it had to be logged with the NFL office. Four times a year, he said, it has to be reconciled in a software program the league provides.
No doubt, the nature of the sport we love is a rough one that causes severe physical pain for most of the players that put themselves on the line every day for our entertainment. And it may even take a toll on those responsible for teaching and guiding those players, especially when there may be deep-seeded emotional issues at play for a coach who may just be, as Grossman puts it...
trying to get his candy to help numb the guilt he has for making a game his priority at the expense of his family.
Does this mean Joe Vitt should have been stealing medication on his own without recording it? Absolutely not. Should Sean Payton have been receiving medication for a condition he didn't possess. Negative. But if they were, can you blame them when the system and everything around them tells them it's okay? It would certainly be difficult.
It's a shame that a problem like this has pervaded the beloved NFL for years and even more of a shame that it's only now coming to the forefront of fan consciousness. It's too late for Joe Vitt, Sean Payton and the entire Saints organization to undo any wrongs they may have committed but it hardly seems fair for them to become the poster boys for something the NFL seems to condone - or at least accept - because as Grossman puts it...
So did anything go on in the Saints locker room that's a big shock to anyone? No, but...there will be a fall guy
The Saints and their staff may soon be put on trial but it shouldn't stop there. It's time to put the system on trial.
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Good thing you didn’t write the constitution Dave. If you had, we’d all be guilty until proven innocent.
Exactly. I dont like the way this has played out here on CSC.
The truth is always somewhere in the middle. I don’t like the way this lawsuit is being treated like the official version of the events.
"They're ready to be like 'Same Old Saints'" - Roman Harper, on each of the New Orleans Saints vanquished foes of 2009
by Hollywoo! on May 9, 2010 9:21 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
what does the official version of the events have to do with the point of this post?
Even if the entire lawsuit is BS, you still have guys like Grossman coming out telling us how rampant drug use is. And an anonymous NFL trainer saying how some teams stock medication. I don’t think this post has anything to do with whether anyone in the Saints organization is guilty or not guilty. It has to do with the fact that BECAUSE of this lawsuit against the Saints, we’re learning more about what might be going on across the league.
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by Dave Cariello on May 9, 2010 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dave's not saying the saints were right or wrong. He is just stating that there is a problem with the logistics of narcotic storage and distribution thoughout the NFL.
It is amazing that it took this long to surface as a significant problem for any team much less the Saints.
"I can eat oreos faster than him" Scott Fugita's take on Payton Manning SB44
by jeremysherwin on May 9, 2010 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Grossman makes a good point on NFP.
The NFL teams are constantly pumping players with pain medication to get them through a situation. NFL does not test for narcotics in the body. I wonder why?…… The NFL is an organization where there is significant peer pressure for a player to play through pain and injuries. When this happens the player gets pumped up on narcotics and the cycle repeats itself until the player has a psychological and possible physical addiction problem. Besides if a football player is always playing hurt or injuried then healing process is significantly legthened, giving rise to additional potential narcotic abuse.
"I can eat oreos faster than him" Scott Fugita's take on Payton Manning SB44
by jeremysherwin on May 9, 2010 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Right.
I’m not even sure if anyone is surprised by these allegations (not against the Saints in particular, but that this is taking place in the NFL).
Unfortunately, guilty or not, the Saints could possibly be making this the next “hot-button issue” of the NFL.
Regulations usually are not enacted and enforced until there is gross negligence, typically well after the fact. This is just an (alleged) example.
It is a Saints touchdown! Seventy yards on the return! Seventy yards on the return by Porter! He did it to Favre and now he's done it to Manning!
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with this particular post per se...
My point is that everything at this point is pure speculation. All of it. We have only heard one side! But I think that here on CSC, that has largely been ignored.
Believe it or not, I’m not trying to be a Saints apologist in this situation. I’m really not. It looks bad. But that is the key word: “Looks”. Like I said, the truth is somewhere in the middle. We still don’t officially know if SSM1 was even Payton! No names were listed in the lawsuit! We’ve only heard one side, but Friarbob was right. It seems the Judge, Jury, and Executioner here has already ruled.
It looked bad when Deuce and Will Smith tested positive for masking agents. But there was more to the story than first reported.
It looked bad when Kobe was accused of rape. Turns out there was another side to the story. He was just a scumbag, not a criminal.
It looked bad when the Duke Lacrosse players were accused of rape, with EVERYONE in the media convicting these guys, before the other side of the story, and eventually the truth, came out.
You even acknowledged the uncertainty yourself in the comment above: “what MIGHT be going on across the league.” Might. We don’t know. Despite that, I think this lawsuit has been treated as the infallible truth around here, and that’s what I disagree with.
I think that, until all of these allegations are proven in a court of law, and both sides get their date in court, there needs to be some healthy skepticism.
"They're ready to be like 'Same Old Saints'" - Roman Harper, on each of the New Orleans Saints vanquished foes of 2009
Actually, technically the truth probably is somewhere in the middle. But assuming that it “must” be in the middle is actually what’s known as the “gray fallacy”. One person says white, another says black, and sloppy lazy thinking leads many people to assume gray must be the truth.
You’re otherwise right. We know NOTHING yet. We don’t know who is right, if either are, or if both are part right. Except Dave, who apparently knows that everybody in the Saints organization is 100% guilty as charged.
I'm genuinely curious to know what in my post leads you to believe I think everyone is 100% guilty
Don’t get me wrong, I do think we will find out that some or most of this stuff is true, but I’ve tried to be at least somewhat impartial in my writing for the sake of others. Not that I have to because this is NOT a news outlet but perhaps you think I’ve failed?
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by Dave Cariello on May 10, 2010 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, the title alone is a pretty good start.
You’ve probably done a better job of it than some, but you literally can’t truly do a good job because we have only one side of the story here. We have no idea what SP, Vitt, Mickey, Tom, or anybody else thinks, except for SP’s one statement that he has never stolen or abused any medication whatsoever. And we don’t even know if that was true, although due to its comprehensive nature I give him the benefit of the doubt because from what I can see SP lies by omission not commission. One of the major flaws of the legal system we have is that one side can crucify the other in the media and the other can’t respond. Which is why people joke about how we have a legal system rather than a justice system.
And because of that, even if SP and/or the Saints is/are eventually exonerated — and we have NO idea whether he/they will be or not — the drumbeat of article after article after article slamming him, the Saints, and/or other teams will leave many thinking “somebody got away with something”. Which again gets back to that gray fallacy I referred to earlier. It’s sloppy, lazy thinking, or maybe more accurately unthinking, and while the opinions of idiots are usually not worth worrying about, it’s annoying to see a good site like this assist in the crucifixion process.
Plus I read the original article you quoted before you wrote this. I came away with the impression of a bitter, angry moron who for some retarded reason continues to write about a sport and industry he’s come to hate. Which doesn’t make sense to me. If you (the original author) hate it that much, dude, go find another job. Even today there are alternatives.
Moron? And you’re still here? Dave, let me be moderator for 1 hour. PLEEEEASE……….. Not that I want to represent CSC or the Saints, I just want to tidy up.
"What he said is, 'We had protection problems.'" - Archie Manning
Jesus H. Christ 1000 Stu
You can’t freaking ban everyone you don’t agree with.
"They're ready to be like 'Same Old Saints'" - Roman Harper, on each of the New Orleans Saints vanquished foes of 2009
Good thing too. I’m sure I’d have banned him a long time ago if I could have.
But don’t worry. He’s just overreacting like a spoiled two-year-old. He’s feeling jilted because I said one thing he agreed with and now he’s pissed that I have a brain of my own and don’t agree with him on everything.
Good lord kiddies
Let’s all play nice in the pool.
My appreciation of the Saints can not be measured in nipples and dimes...nickels and boobs...money!
sticks and stones will break your bones, but words will not hurt you.
OUCH. Dave is recieving more criticism then the Saints organization.
"I can eat oreos faster than him" Scott Fujita's take on Payton Manning SB44
by jeremysherwin on May 10, 2010 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
From my read....
Friar was refering to a journalist when he used the word “moron”…
Repeat? Under construction...
I voted probably, btw
"They're ready to be like 'Same Old Saints'" - Roman Harper, on each of the New Orleans Saints vanquished foes of 2009
I will admit though, Hollywoo!
You and I probably don’t see eye to eye on the civil lawsuit.
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by Dave Cariello on May 9, 2010 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think I have much of an opinion on the lawsuit either way at this point.
I just know that in the past, I was quick to believe the first things I read, only to think later how foolish I was to jump off the cliff with the other lemmings, before I knew the WHOLE truth.
It would also be foolish not to admit that the way the Saints handled their controlled substances was at the very least stupid, at the worst potentially criminal, God forbid.
Change is definitely in the air…
"They're ready to be like 'Same Old Saints'" - Roman Harper, on each of the New Orleans Saints vanquished foes of 2009
You are correct to say there is always a middle hollywoo!.
It could be ugly or good looking but it always exists.
There is no way to fully understand the situation just by reading the text upon which the allegations were presented.
We can however use some deductive reasoning to a certain extent. No member thus far on CSC has blown anything out of context. We know that the situation appears bad. It would be irresponsible on Dave’s part not to allow commentary on this sensitive subject. Likewise we have had some excellent feedback from members especially from a current narcotics officer that provided some great insight. Regardless of this situation. CSC is probally one if not the only site on the internet that would possibly be biased towards the defense of the situation. I for one am suprised that this did not occur. Fans are usually the first ones off the gun to support or defend a sensitive situation involving their favorite team. You appear sicken by this situation that the Saints are in, and you are rightly justified. I just hope like you say there is a happy medium that we can all agree on.
"I can eat oreos faster than him" Scott Fujita's take on Payton Manning SB44
by jeremysherwin on May 9, 2010 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Worked in construction my whole life
some days were really tough on the body. Took my first Vicodin after cancer surgery and woke up ten hrs. later. I watch these people smash each others @#$ off every play their involved in the whole season. I don’t condone drug abuse but, I honestly don’t see how these people make it through a 16 game season without some kind of help(medication). It’s easy for us to sit back and judge em but I don’t know if I wouldn’t do the same thing if put in their position to perform up to NFL standards. And no I don’t believe SP is taking drugs but there just might be a player or two after a game that needs a goodnight’s rest.
What wonderful little gifts April Fools Day brings.
~D's Pappy
by OldFartFan on May 9, 2010 7:10 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Per the first link.
" I used to take Codine 2 after games mainly to relax and sleep". “I did not do it every week”
From a medical perspective that is improper usage of a Narcotic. Narotics block Mu receptors that respond to the sensation of pain. Sleepiness is just a side effect of the drug. To give a Narcotic for the specific reason of enhancing sleep or managing anxiety is completly and utterly wrong.
This has no reflection on the player itself. It is a reflection on the system. Can you imagine everyone in the world that was having problems sleeping was perscribed Vicoden or Codine for sleep?
But it is good to see that the Saints were following protocol correctly.
I knew that the physical security of the keys would be a significant issue. I am supprised that the media is just talking about it.
"I can eat oreos faster than him" Scott Fujita's take on Payton Manning SB44
by jeremysherwin on May 9, 2010 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Per the second link.
“We’ve heard from multiple sources that the Saints were (and possibly still are) obtaining their medications via a prescription made out generally to the team, and not to the individuals who are receiving the medications. That’s a no-no for the doctor writing the prescriptions and the pharmacy that is filling them”
Lets make a little comparison a little bit.
You have a painful condition. Instead of your doctor perscribing you a narcotic, he/she puts your entire family’s name on it.
Anyone in your family would have access to that medication, just like in the Saint’s situation.
I would not be supprised if their are some professional consquences to the Saint’s Doctor’s actions, in additon to the Pharmacy that filled the perscription. I understand the logistics of delivering narcotics compared to having them on hand would be a more secure system, but whose to say when those narcotics are delivered or who they are delivered to. I cannot see the delivery boy giving them directly to the NFL player. More than likely it would be a represenative of the team, possibly a trainer. Then you run into the same problem over again.
"I can eat oreos faster than him" Scott Fujita's take on Payton Manning SB44
by jeremysherwin on May 9, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Why not treat the NFL the same way you or I would be treated.
We have a surgery or are in pain. We get a doctor’s visit. We get a perscription for a specific time frame/dose/frequency. We go to the pharmacy to get it filled. Pick it up with proper documentation, and if we need another perscription we have another doctor visit. This way the players are the only ones who actually come in contact with the drugs.
Now if the Team Doctor wants to hold onto narcotics for after game/practice treatment, he/she would be responsible for dispensing the medication along with the security of the medication.
Any other way has too many middle men, and too man potential variables.
"I can eat oreos faster than him" Scott Fujita's take on Payton Manning SB44
Huh?
Does this mean Joe Vitt should have been stealing medication on his own without recording it? Absolutely not. Should Sean Payton have been receiving medication for a condition he didn’t possess. Negative. But if they were, can you blame them when the system and everything around them tells them it’s okay? It would certainly be difficult.
I’m not finding it difficult. The ‘everyone else is doing it’ defense rarely wins a moral or even less a legal argument. I find it hard to blame the policy when its aimed at preventing addiction or other abuses. No different than steroids. The problem is a lack of enforcement. I don’t necessarily have a solution at the moment but I have yet to hear a sound argument that the Saints organization doesn’t bear some responsibility. It sucks its your team and not the Bengals or Raiders. If Dave is correct and it is rampant throughout the NFL then others would be wise to review there compliance which I’m sure they already have, which also doesn’t help the Saints.
"Hard to Blame policy"
not really. When you designate one individual on the team to secure the keys to a medicine locker, and that individual leaves them in their office where other people have access to that particular office, that is a problem with policy. At the very least with the saints current protocol.
When you leave keys in an area like that you might as well make copies of the keys and hand them out to everyone.
If the keys were secured correctly then the Saints would not be having this problem.
Vitt might be having a problem, but the Saints as an organization would not.
"I can eat oreos faster than him" Scott Fujita's take on Payton Manning SB44
by jeremysherwin on May 10, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions
My point was this.
It is hard to enfore rules when it comes to narcotics if they vary from person to person.
The saints doctor had a stash of narcotics on sight with a trainer having the key.
You or I or any other person would have to take a trip to the pharmacy drop off our Rx, show identification then get dispensed a predetermined amount of drugs.
The way the saints system was set up was not even close to the one you or i use.
Yes their circumstances are a little different, but if narcotics is such a sensitive subject then the drugs should be handle in the same manner no matter who is recieving them.
"I can eat oreos faster than him" Scott Fujita's take on Payton Manning SB44
I am a bit surprised that there is not one specific way in which
it is given out by the NFL. Now, I understand everyone having their own ways but since this is the NFL…you would think that they would have total control over it as they do everything else.
I do not worry about this as much as everyone else. If Payton is guilty, he can get help (and take his suspension) and we can move on WITH him after he gets help.
The world will not end if he gets help and returns. Many people need it and go back to great lives
I voted probably
Like all sports, drugs seem to be a problem in the NFL. Cushing just got suspended 4 games for performance enhancing drugs. Baseball just had it’s big scandal from the “steroid era”. It’s a problem in all sports and has been for a while now. It needs to be fixed but the question is how to fix it. I won’t pretend to know very much about the drug policies of the NFL but it seems to be half way ok. People that use the drugs get caught some of the times and get away with it probably most of the time.
Does this mean Joe Vitt should have been stealing medication on his own without recording it? Absolutely not. Should Sean Payton have been receiving medication for a condition he didn’t possess. Negative. But if they were, can you blame them when the system and everything around them tells them it’s okay? It would certainly be difficult.
I disagree with this. You say that it’s not ok for them to do it but you can’t blame them. I think the blame is with the players/coaches that use them. They are not forced down their throats. That’s like saying that because a kid in school sells drugs you can’t blame another kid for buying them. In the end it all comes back to personal decisions. Vitt and Payton both knew that taking drugs out of an area like that or drugs at all is a bad idea.
It only gets worse if this is true because that’s 100 pills missing. That’s about 3 pills a week,during the regular season, for each coach. That makes me feel like it’s not a once in a while thing and they would need help with their minor addictions. I don’t think that it would effect us too much as long as payton gets help during a suspension(if he would get one). I think that it will not derail this season for us unless the players let it. GW could still coach D and Brees could call his own plays on offense lol
Superbowl bound!!!...I know! do you?! Go Saints!!
I honestly don’t care what kind of drugs they pump into these players, as long as it’s being done consensually. There’s a judicial system in place to sort out the rest. Whether or not the league monitors their own goings on is the league’s business. Whether or not players — or executives, or teams — are ultimately punished for their actions is the jury’s. If breaking civil law, then yes, they should suffer the consequences. That doesn’t mean they will. Same goes for any league policies in place, though I care far less about that side of it, as no precedence stemming from a Roger Goodell verdict will ever be legally applicable in a defense case involving myself, a friend, a loved one, etc.
"I was not on the boat in question." -Darren Sharper
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