Opinion: Even closer look shows why backs like Thomas struggle to cash in
by Dave Cariello on Jun 10, 2010 6:01 AM CDT
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PrintNo doubt, the Pierre Thomas contract talks are the biggest topic of discussion in Who Dat Nation as of late. Yesterday, Pat Kirwan wrote what I deem to be a pretty smart piece for NFL.com putting things in perspective and explaining the difficulty of present-day running backs, like our very own Pierre, to land huge contracts. In the article, Kirwan details several factors that get taken into account when figuring how much an NFL running back is worth, all of which makes perfect sense. But I'm not convinced it's that simple.
Yesterday, we learned that the initial offer made to Pierre by the Saints was a four-year, $11 million deal, unacceptable to Thomas and his agent. Kirwan, however, believes differently...
Thomas...should be happy to get a four-year deal worth $8 million with $1.7 million up front and the rest in unguaranteed salaries worth $6.1 million and workout bonuses totaling $200,000 over four years.
...and even came up with this handy-dandy table that compares running backs similar to Thomas and uses this to get his point across that Pierre's contract will probably not be as large as he and his agent are hoping or wanting it to be.
All of this is completely logical. Pierre probably isn't worth as much as he would like to be, especially given the way the Sean Payton and the Saints like to spread the ball around. But Kirwan seems to have left our one major factor. I've come up with my own, simple table that, unfortunately, throws all of Kirwan's brilliant logic out the window and may very well be the cause of contract delays:
| Player | Team | Entry point | 2009 touches | Yards from scrimmage | TDs | 2010 salary |
| Pierre Thomas | Saints | Undrafted | 186 | 1,095 | 8 | $1.68M tendered |
| Reggie Bush | Saints | First-round in 2006 | 117 | 725 | 8 | $8M |
That's right, I'm going there. Thomas has produced significantly more than his colleague, Reggie Bush, yet would make significantly less money in 2010. Quite the discrepancy. So what is the cause for this obvious discrepancy? Entry point, or draft position, of course. Stupid? Absolutely. Fair? Absolutely not. But the rookie salary wage is another argument for another day. Or is it?
The point is this: How can anyone expect Thomas and his agent to "settle" on a salary average to his production around the league when the guy sharing the locker next to him doesn't seem to play by the same rules. This is not a knock on Reggie; he's done nothing wrong here. But as long as there are players in the league getting paid sums more proportionate to their draft position and not so much to their production, all while eating up a teams financial resources that could better be used on players more deserving, the NFL's salary structure will never be truly fair and guys like Pierre have reason to negotiate for more. Especially when they're on the same team.
So what do you think? Am I way off? Should it and will it ever change? When will the Saints get a deal done with Pierre? And how do we get Reggie to give up some of his salary to help keep Pierre happy?
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I couldn't agree more...
PT is easily replaceable. Does anyone doubt that the Saints WILL have the number 1 offense without him?
Here’s the problem. I recently rewatched the NFC Conference Championship and the Superbowl. I encourage you all to do so as well (like you haven’t already rewatched them a thousand times) Anyway, PT plays amazing in those games, never stops fighting, has two fantastic screen TDs. Those screens were well blocked, but, who here thinks Reggie would have scored on those? Not me.
Anyway, my point is, as hard as it is to justify the salary he is asking for, I’m kind of rooting for him to get it. He seems to have “IT” The same “IT” as (dare I say) a young Duece?? PT fits perfect in this offense and compliments Reggie perfectly, why mess with that?
PT’s agent can show those 2 games and the Saints should melt, i know i did.
PT easily replaceable?
Go through the list of available free agents. Take into consideration their contracts, how much they are wanting, their health issues. Name some.
With Pierre, you have a 25 year old with (knock on wood) few serious injuries, in the prime of his career. He knows the offense. Like you said, those screen passes he got all season long were like money in the bank. In the Super Bowl, I think the first guy to hit him only brought him down once. Trying anyone else is like buying a used car.
Would we have the number one offense without him? Look at 2008 where the running game wasn’t featured. Remember all those third and one’s we couldn’t convert to keep control of the clock? We had the number one offense, yes, with Drew passing for 5069 yards, and a rushing offense that was ranked 28th. In 2009, the rushing game was ranked sixth, but a lot of that may have come from the early games in the season before Bell was injured or forgot what cleats to wear.
Is he replaceable? Yes. So is Drew Brees. I am not putting him on a par with Drew, but you have to see what else is out there within the restraints you (Loomis, i.e.) have placed upon yourself, reportedly 2.5 million a year.
It would be very difficult to replace Pierre Thomas, IMHO, of course.
Look I’m a “pay the man” kinda guy. I want him to get paid properly because he IS a good RB and deserves to get paid a LOT more than he has been making.
But you can’t say that PT couldn’t be replaced without also pretending that Colston or Moore or Henderson couldn’t be replaced either. There’s a reason why Moore, despite a rather low tender, didn’t get any offers. He’s viewed by most as a “system” guy. IE it’s the system, not him, that pumps up his stats. I don’t totally agree, but they aren’t totally wrong either. For that matter, Moore himself is proof of this, as he rather easily replaced other injured guys. And if AA screws it up there’s still some other guys sitting around on the third string. Somebody would step up if they had to, and if need be Drew would find a way to make it work even if the replacement wasn’t very good after all.
Anybody who’s willing to work his butt off has a chance to succeed on this team. But as a result, as long as Payton’s brain is working well enough for him to call good plays, anybody short of Drew can also be fairly easily replaced as well. PT is, for that matter, ALSO proof of that. He beat out a 4th round draft pick and several other rather talented people (including Mike Bell, wrong cleats or not) for the job himself. And most of those guys he beat out, including those still around like Photo OP and PJ Hill, are at least decent enough they could now with that extra year of experience probably step up and at least mostly fill his shoes.
So yeah, PT, could be replaced. And it could happen pretty easily. Maybe he wouldn’t be fully replaced by one, but if the RB depth chart for the season read Bush, Hamilton, Hill, I wouldn’t be that worried. I wouldn’t be doing handsprings either, because I’d much rather see PT both playing and getting appropriately paid for it. But the other guys are decent enough to be OK in our system.
I kind of agree on some points, but what can you do about it? A first round pick deserves a rookie contract worth more than an undrafted free agent. A #2 overall pick deserves a rookie contract worth a LOT more than an undrafted free agent. Rookie contracts lead to a ton of heartache for a lot of teams, especially rookie contracts for those top 10 picks. But until we decide that Greg Paulus (if he gets signed) deserves to make an equal amount to Sam Bradford then there really isn’t anything we can complain about.
I have to go back to when Eli Manning was made the highest paid player in the game a couple of years ago. Was he the best player in the NFL? Heck no. But that was the going rate for a quality starting quarterback at the time. At the time we signed Reggie Bush, we gave him the going rate for someone projected to be the next Barry Sanders. When he get his next contract he will get the going rate for a RB producing around 750 yards a season. Pierre Thomas needs to be looking for the going rate for a running back producing 1000 total yards right now, not the going rate for the next Barry Sanders in 2006.
"I want to hand this trophy to the MVP of the Super Bowl -- and the MVP of the entire league.''
-- Saints coach Sean Payton, handing the Vince Lombardi Trophy to Drew Brees after Super Bowl 44.
by VAsaintsfan on Jun 10, 2010 7:57 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Exactly!…Not a damn thing except to sign and rush for a thousand yards…
"If you ain't the lead dog, the view never changes"
Bum Phillips
by Saint Archie on Jun 10, 2010 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
So what do you think? Am I way off? Should it and will it ever change? When will the Saints get a deal done with Pierre? And how do we get Reggie to give up some of his salary to help keep Pierre happy?
Should it change? Yes.
Will it ever change? Probably not.
When will they get a deal done? Soon, I hope. They need to give the man what he has earned.
Reggie? Sheeeeeeeeeesh. He’s got lawyer bills from USC.
And you KNOW who else would love him if he could leave....
Tampa….Atlanta…Carolina…
Like all the others in the past. Heck, PT only had one fumble last year, Minnesota might want him to help out Peterson.
If he is worth a sizable amount more than what we are offering, then he would have gotten offers from other teams this offseason. Tampa, Atlanta and Carolina all had the chance to outbid the Saints, and didn’t try it.
"I want to hand this trophy to the MVP of the Super Bowl -- and the MVP of the entire league.''
-- Saints coach Sean Payton, handing the Vince Lombardi Trophy to Drew Brees after Super Bowl 44.
100% Agree
One’s market value is one’s value. I’m sure a lot of teams would be happy to have PT, but I don’t think that many front offices would wildly exceed what the Saints are offering. Two and a half million a year is pretty f****** good and it also sounds just about right to me.
Pierre ought to push for maybe one more concession, like 10 free signed copies of SP’s book, and then ink it.
"Why would I even consider taking the ball out of Drew Brees’ hands?’’
Yea. I agree that the higher picks should get more.
I would like something like the basketball slotting system where each pick makes a predtermined reasonable amount. But if u make it where all the guys make basically the same (the way to prevent current situation) then that will take away a lot of motivation in the college game. Players won’t have to work hard for a top spot. They’ll just need to get picked up. Thus the talent coming out of college would digress.
by ReggieVilma on Jun 10, 2010 8:20 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Well the 2nd round picks already make a lot more than the 7th round picks in their rookie contract. Basically the system works OK from the 2nd round to the 7th. But in the first, it’s flat insane
Should there be a premium for being drafted in the first round? Sure? Should it be $20 million? Hell no! It should be maybe around two million… for the #1 pick overall.
Pay the man
PT fights for every yard, and never goes down on first contact…..If they gave him the ball more he could be a featured back here, 5.4 ypc……think about that. Pay the man cause he deserves it.
Oh boy...here we go
From Rotoworld:
The Saints reportedly plan to exercise their right to reduce restricted free agent Pierre Thomas’ tender if he doesn’t sign by June 15.
Here we go again. Another team is taking a hard-line stance against a player who has done and said all of the right things while severely outplaying his contract. Thomas would stand to lose $1.1 million if he doesn’t sign the dotted line in the next five days.
Football is easy if you're crazy as hell
If they do this
…they lose PT. He’ll play another year for the Saints, but then he won’t come back. The Saints can afford to be magnanimous, and keep the tender offer on the table.
The Saints’ mistake (although how could they avoid it?) was agreeing to pay Reggie so much money in the first place. PT’s mistake (and his agent’s) is apparently insisting that he should get paid like Reggie, when everyone knows Reggie is wildly overpaid. Kirwan is right, and PT needs to understand that. Sign the tender, make good money this year, be productive, and cash in with a respectable—but not spectacular—contract next season. They say politics is the art of the possible; so is negotiating salaries.
I know who i am! I'm the dude playing the dude disguised as another dude!
“The Saints’ mistake (although how could they avoid it?) was agreeing to pay Reggie so much money in the first place.”
Did they have much of a choice, if they wanted him to actually play for the Saints? (pre-reply: yes, they technically could have chosen to offer him what rookies are worth, and he would have wouldn’t have been a Saint. As mentioned above, the NFL needs a rookie cap system.)
“PT’s mistake (and his agent’s) is apparently insisting that he should get paid like Reggie, when everyone knows Reggie is wildly overpaid.”
THAT seems to be the exact issue…. whether that’s what’s really happening, who knows.
MSM says he wants “Steven Jackson money”. Then his agent comes out and says, “We never said that.”… So, until you hear PT or ML divulge their side of the negotiations, it’s mostly (not all, but mostly) speculation, misdirection, or out right B*** S***.
"Do not anticipate trouble or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. " ~Benjamin Franklin
You sir, are way on!
Totally agree about the discrepancy in salaries between Reggie and PT. Some have said PT is easily replaceable. Statements like that almost make me suddenly spit out my coffee. I don’t think he is at all easily replaceable. He has a great talent for finding the running lanes and breaking tackles. As we’ve seen with Reggie over the years, that’s not a skill to be taken for granted. I’ve got nothing at all against Reggie. I just think PT deserves to get paid at least somewhere close to what Reggie gets. By that, I believe Reggie’s salary should be lowered and PT’s raised.
I’m thinking PT and his agent will hold out until the last possible moment and accept the $11 million offer. Still, Mickey should bump that up a little bit. The guy has proven his worth and it’s a helluva lot more than that.
"As soon as Tony (Dungy) said we had no chance, I knew we had 'em right where we wanted 'em"--Coach Sean Payton right after Super Bowl XLIV with the Lombardi Trophy firmly in hand. WHO DAT!!
by David "Satch" Kelly on Jun 10, 2010 9:34 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Boom!
Rec’d ya.
But Reggie ain’t giving up his dough. Well, he don’t have to “afford” Kim K. anymore, so maybe he’ll have a little more cash flow.
Really a tough choice
Very tough since both bring such a different element to the game.
I’d have to vote PT I suppose. The reasons I have aren’t very good, mainly Reggie hasn’t lived up to his full potential/value, and PT has far exceeded expectations for an undrafted free agent.
You are way off
Bush’s money may be a kick in the teeth to PT but it has nothing to do with what the Saints think Thomas is worth and they aren’t going to overpay for him. If anything, the Saints wish that they could get a rebate on Reggie because Reggie’s salary makes it harder to throw a little more juice into Thomas’ deal.
Most research on RBs says that a #1 RB is worth a lot less than the market usually thinks. The job is (a) very OL dependent and (b) prone to rapid decline after a series of bad hits. I want PT to stay and I want him to make a lot of money – but if he is looking over at Reggie’s locker and wishing that he was the highest paid back on the team he is insane.
That said, I don’t think that is what he is doing. I think he is a guy in an RBBC system and he wants to be paid like a feature back.
Wrong way round. Dave’s not suggesting the Saints are factoring Reggie’s money into their offer for PT. He’s suggesting PT is considering Reggie’s money when making his demands. And rightly so, given his greater production last season.
I’m sure he knows his role within the RBBC. But if one back in a RBBC that has fairly even production is greatly overpaid, it’s gonna encourage the remaining members to want some parity.
If I am good I could add years to my life / I would rather add some life to my years.
exactly
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by Dave Cariello on Jun 10, 2010 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I got that
I wasn’t saying that Dave is off in his analysis of PT’s thinking. I was saying that he was way off in thinking that it should make any difference to how the Saints approach the situation. Making a mistake in overpaying Bush doesn’t mean they should make a second mistake and overpay Thomas. Bush’s salary means that there is less money to go around, so even if the Saints wanted to give PT a loyalty bonus, not cutting Bush means it is even less likely to happen.
I see. I’m not sure if I agree. I think they distorted their RB market and they’re the ones who should pay the price for that. I can understand not wanting to make two mistakes, as it potentially has a domino effect on the entire roster, but paying #25 so much really damages their stance with PT.
If I am good I could add years to my life / I would rather add some life to my years.
It may well damage their stance with PT but – life being tough and all – that is PT’s issue to get over. The Saints are going to pay Thomas according to the market for talented but not superstar RBBC leaders, not the market for “overpaid RBs on the Saints roster.” Thomas isn’t going to get money comparable to Bush from anyone else so he isn’t going to get it from the Saints.
starting point is a huge deal
no matter the profession, your starting point in that profession often has a huge impact on the rest of your future. not to say that it cannot be overcome, but that’s just how things are. i do wish PT can get a decent offer so he can get to work.
Pay that man
Pierre has earned it but if he thinks he’s getting steven jackson type money like ESPN reported he’s wicked crazy
deedy baby
is 14-15 mil for 4 years fair for both sides
lets get it done
I love it when a plan comes together! -Hannibal
by DrewBreesManCrush on Jun 10, 2010 10:12 AM CDT reply actions
Apparently
according to a report that came out on ESPN, not only is PT not asking for Steven Jackson money (according to his agent), but that the only deal presented to PT was not even in the ball park for what the eagles offered their starting full back in Leonard Weaver. Which if you’re curious was around 3 years 11 million.
So if that’s to be believed…it seems Loomis doesn’t even feel our starting running back is worth 3-4 million a year.
tweet
greggrosenthal
Pierre Thomas gets 4-yr, $11 mill offer. Reggie Bush makes $8 mill in ‘10. Lesson: Don’t go undrafted. You get screwed twice.
Right now it seems real to you, but it's
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Did you guys see Duncan's story on Nola has now been pulled...
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by Dave Cariello on Jun 10, 2010 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah I know... just wondering why they pulled... maybe it is a "non-scoop"...
Although the original Tweets are still there
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by Dave Cariello on Jun 10, 2010 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
$11M over 4 years is getting screwed?
If he’s making $2.75M annually, that puts him ahead of what Adrian Peterson, Thomas Jones, Marian Barber, Matt Forte, Fred Jackson and several other more productive RBs were pulling in last year. The problem comes when you look at people like Reggie Bush and Darren Sproles that are being paid beyond their production. And in all fairness, when you throw them into the mix, it makes the case for just about anybody to be making $10M a year.
"I want to hand this trophy to the MVP of the Super Bowl -- and the MVP of the entire league.''
-- Saints coach Sean Payton, handing the Vince Lombardi Trophy to Drew Brees after Super Bowl 44.
by VAsaintsfan on Jun 10, 2010 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
You're forgetting a lot of things
Not the least of which is that a large portion of salaries aren’t salaries, they’re incentives and roster bonus. Where it’s true that Adrian Peterson’s salary was roughly 800k last year…he also received a 1.6 million roster bonus and hit multiple escalators in his contract that increases his salary. This year alone he’ll be making 3.65 million in salary with a 3 million dollar roster bonus and continued escalators.
Just because the contract says 11M over 4 years doesn’t mean 2.75 million a year. That generally represents the maximum amount a player COULD make over the life of the contract. The much lauded Adrian Peterson’s contract was 6 years and just over 40 million dollars. So yes, an 11 Million over 4 year contract for a RB who has been the model team player and starter is indeed getting “screwed”. Especially considering this will undoubtedly be Pierre’s final money contract after playing out his rookie deal making minimum salary as an undrafted free agent.
Is he Adrian Peterson…no. But the guy’s a team player and complete back who makes plays in our system. A 4 year contract in the range of 18-20 Mil with some mild escalators with a final voidable year should be enough for the Saints to live with as well as satisfy Pierre’s true value.
Best point I've ever seen on this site.
No joke. You could not possibly be more on.
Snap, place, kick! And it's good! It's good! It's goo-hoo-hood! Pigs have flown! Hell Has frozen over! The Saints are going to the Superbowl!
by Joseph William Stern on Jun 10, 2010 1:03 PM CDT reply actions
4 Years $12 Mill with $3MM guaranteed!!! Pay Him
He played! When his contract was at minimum, he played! When his team needed him, he played! He didn’t just do it in a contract year. He played whenever he had the opportunity. Pay the man! Saints owe him!
I`m curious...
Do the Saints get any cut in merchandise sales? (official NFL endorsed
naturally) At the London game the only jerseys you could buy at the NFL
outlets were Bush , Brees and Manning throwbacks. I`m guessing 20,000
#25`s at least were sold netting a cool $1m .
I know this isn`t a reflection on football ability but it may be a consideration
at chez Benson when reviewing company salaries, either that or they all got
a little giddy getting up close to KK (Kim not Kevin)
I`m going to state the bleedin` obvious here and say , on merit Reggie is overpaid
and Pierre deserves more. I would be happy to see both line up in NOLA
for 5 more successful years.
Where next?
As far as I know, the Saints get 3.125%. Profits for all are merchandise sales are split equally between the 32 teams.
If I am good I could add years to my life / I would rather add some life to my years.
Yeah they are. The reason Bush’s popularity plays into this at all is he helped put butts in the seat in 2006. Now he’s getting the money he helped the team make back then when they so desperately needed it.
Fair? Well, actually yes. He made the team a lot of money and they are giving him some back. Sure it’s not fair from a production standpoint, but PT — fairly or not — isn’t seen as the kind of guy who puts butts in the seats.
You raise an interesting point
That I think many are forgetting about. It’s true that Reggie helped sell out tickets and fill seats. While the team may use that reasoning to at least partially rationalize his hefty salary, his career at least to this point has been just a tad disappointing for numerous reasons. I’d like to see Reggie offer to let the team restructure his contract slightly, and allow the team to add those dollars to their offer to PT—not that I think that’s likely!
They should increase their offer a bit, but anything above their initial offer should be added only to the incentive/bonus side. That way Pierre would have the chance to put the money where his feet are!
"The Saints made the right decision signing Drew Brees-not just in terms of his arm, but because of his heart and mind." - Marshall Faulk
Agree with your reasoning Dave.
Mickey seems to be offering PT his contract while hoping he doesn’t glance at the headlines to see what Reggie’s making. I feel like it’d be a fair contract if the market (at least at this one-team local level) hadn’t been hugely distorted by #25’s salary, which they could have at least tried to restructure.
In the Times Picayune article. his agent suggests PT feels he could have a Michael Turner kind of year, which is hard for me to forsee. But I can’t blame the guy for self-confidence, given 5.88 yards per touch last season and TD’s in the last two playoff games.
If I am good I could add years to my life / I would rather add some life to my years.
Personally, I think that the Saints should have just locked up PT earlier...
..and either restructured Reggie Bush’s salary or traded him outright to Seattle (probably along with Jamaal Brown) for some draft picks or a stud OLB.
As much as I like Reggie and his big play ability, Pierre Thomas is the heart and soul of the Saints’ running game, and if he’s not there, the O becomes fundamentally one-dimensional and much easier to contain and stop. By simply eating Bush’s contract and not focusing on locking PT up, Loomis may have crated the kind of controversy that busts up locker rooms and prevented a repeat of 2009.
I’m not sure that he’s worth Steven Jackson kind of money (he’s not a featured running back of the LT at his best or AP kind), but he’s certainly worth more than what Loomis is offering right now. I’m with the consensus: Pay ’da man and get it over with, befire your locker room is destroyed.
Anthony
PT replaced Deuce. Photo Op already replaced Bell in the late- and post-season last year. And now PJ Hill is waiting in the wings.
Fair or not, if PT wants more than market value just because Bush is making a killing, he’s merely showing himself out the door. He will be replaced, and maybe the ground game suffers somewhat, but it will recover when somebody else steps up… or when PayLoo find their next 7th round steal of the draft.
A note for our newer members
Photo Op = #30 Lynell Hamilton
And the days went by like paper in the wind
Everything changed, then changed again
nice work, Stu
see- you are inviting and inclusive sometimes. (When you’re not dropping the hammer on a grudge list member.)
We've got 27 ways to add up to 11 (players on the field). I came up with another one last night. -- GW
by Hans Petersen on Jun 11, 2010 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Am I the only one that gets pi\22ed
When the media seems to push the teeshirt sales
Hey the best players should make the best money
Not the best camera clowns
but some things never change
R Bush is a good player and guy but
so is PT but it takes both
What wonderful little gifts April Fools Day brings.
~D's Pappy
and signing this 4-year deal will pretty much be his last chance at a big payday
he’s 25
when the contract expires, he’ll be 29
nobody will throw big $$$ at a 29-year-old RB unless the “RB performing beyond age 30” landscape REALLY changes in the next 4 years, which one could argue MAY happen if a back is platooned and rested, and not averaging 25 carries per game over those 4 years…
ugh. I don’t like how this may turn out.
We've got 27 ways to add up to 11 (players on the field). I came up with another one last night. -- GW
Good points in your article, Dave
And once emotion comes into play with business dealings, it’s hard to handle.
It would be hard to compare your production to another guy’s and see how much more he is earning while you have done more on the field (in your mind).
It’s hard to quantify – we’ve gone ‘round and round about Reggie’s value to the team beyond simple stats…
We've got 27 ways to add up to 11 (players on the field). I came up with another one last night. -- GW
good points
good luck getting reggie money tho for PT. It’s stupid for him to use that as a reason for not signing(if he is). They were rookie contracts. Reggie played and did well in 06. injured in 07 and 08. 08, PT gets the bulk of the carries and has an unbelievable year with 12 total TDs. 8 TDs this past season but has 18 more carries than 08 and goes from a 4.8 YPC in 08 to 5.4 YPC this past season. Hasnt had a 1k season yet and hasn’t played in all 16 games of a season yet. I want to keep him, yes. Should he get paid more than 1.6m? Probably. I’d say 2.3m a year is a good deal. I think that is a deal that he should accept. PT may not want to see it but he could be looked at as expendable by the front office. Reggie had his first year without injuries since 06. He was running with a physical and north-south type of element that he has been lacking. He had a 5.6 YPC average and scored as many TDs as PT with about 70 less touches. Don’t get me wrong, I want to keep PT because I think he and Reggie compliment each other well. PT is a bit of a bruising back but with some juking in him. Reggie is a juking back with a bit of bruising. Both backs can do both when they focus on it. Neither of them got the tough yardage(like 3rd and 2s) though. PT could probably be a featured back somewhere but idk if they’d pay him like he might want. I would like to see him signed soon though because Idk if Hamilton and Hill are ready to step up into full time roles.
Superbowl bound!!!...I know! do you?! Go Saints!!
The Superbowl blues huh !!!!
He knows that Brees success is based on the on game . With Bell gone you will have little choice but to get a del done . He is a great compliment to Bush . SuperBowls have their drawbacks. This deal should have been done last fall . After the O-line was in order .
Too many rb’s waiting in the wings. too many untested running backs that loomis maybe relying on to be the next PT. FOrtunately, PT is tested and he has passed with flying colors. He deserves money. Last season, I saw what Brees was making and what Leinert was making. Leinert was making about 4x what Brees was making. Because we took a chance on a QB that had a season ending and in most cases career ending injury. He was paid like someone that we were taking a chance on. Drew has since proven himself and deserves to get paid. PT was paid like an undrafted rookie and has proven himself and he deserves to get paid. No, not SJ money, but SB Champion money. He did a lot for this team and helped out a lot. I remember when he first started and Reggie was having all those problems, I wanted them to get rid of reggie and keep PT. He has proven his worth now give it to him
Thing is, PT ain’t gonna get paid precisely because there are so many others like him, by which I mean low-round or undrafted RBs who crack starting squads, especially in this era of RBBC. His is not an uncommon story, which means he’s far less likely to get what most of us on here seem to feel is his due.
isn't the whole process of negotiating that each side starts far apart, and then work to get to a middle ground that is satisfactory to both sides?
Here’s hoping that middle ground is soon found and it happens to be at the team facility on David Drive with both sides smiling for the paparazzi (heck, they could even have BeerMan and PhotoOp on hand to liven things up) while PT signs on the dotted line…
We've got 27 ways to add up to 11 (players on the field). I came up with another one last night. -- GW
4 year, $13 MM deal would be fair
I’ve been rooting for PT since he joined the Saints. I was thrilled when the Saints did the right thing and Pierre made the cut over draft choice Antonio Pittman. Having said that is he worth Steven Jackson money? No! Was anyone else watching the Rams game last season? That guy carried the entire team on his back and deserves to be paid like the star that he is.
Now do I think PT gets enough credit, absolutely not! He averaged 5.4 ypc, which was 6th among RBs that had at least 100 carries last season. Profootballfocus.com ranks him 5th in the league which I think is about right. (Reggie is 11th.)
We all know that there is no getting rid of Reggie or renegotiating his contract, so it is a waste of breath to even discuss those ideas. Is he overpaid? Of course he is! Everyone knows it, even he knows it I’d venture to guess. But he does have his place in the Saints system and creates mismatch problems for opposing defenses. Not to the tune of $8 mil but hey what are you going to do about it?
The real question is how do you reward PT for his contributions? He is by far the best back on the roster. In the uncapped year, I think $4 million guaranteed this year with an average of $3 million for the next 3 years seems fair. Have compensation in the latter years of the contract tied to production and be done with it.
Good luck PT! I hope to see you in Black in Gold in September.
Just out of curiosity.......
I dont want to lose PT, but if worse comes to worse, would anyone else like to see Lendale White added to the black and gold?Hhe and Reggie made a helluva pair at USC…..
by SaintsFaninaStrangeLand on Jun 11, 2010 8:03 PM CDT reply actions
Maybe… depends on the shape he’s in… Why did the Seahawks release him? It had to be something big.
FYI… Ryan Moats is now available. (I haven’t done much research on him, I just remember having him on my FF team when I was desperate for a RB and he got me a few points.
"Do not anticipate trouble or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. " ~Benjamin Franklin
PJ Hill
Doesnt anyone else find it interesting that P.j. was quickly brought back to Nola as soon as he was cut!!
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