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A Mike Florio Rebuttal: FYYFF

The venerable Mike Florio of The Sporting News yesterday suggested that the New Orleans Saints should cut Reggie Bush. It is, he believes, "a move that simply needs to be made," but one that won't because "NFL teams typically hate to admit a mistake."

Florio brings out the ire of a lot of us here at CSC, and around SB Nation, for his provocative opinions. It's gotten to the point where we want to ignore him, but he so inspires hatred that we can't help but be drawn to each fanshot that bears his name, even to suggest that nobody click the evil links within. I don't really care, though. I don't want to ignore him, I just want to prove him wrong. It's the offseason and we need something to talk about at CSC.

So let's start with his first statement on Reggie:

Star-divide

Bush is only a bit player in the offense.

Incorrect.

There is no one focus to our offense. There's no "Manning to Harrison" or "Young to Rice" that everyone expects. In 2009, no receiver caught more than 20% of Brees' completions. No running back had more than 35% of the total carries. The key to the offensive success which has seen us top the NFL scoring for two successive seasons is the array of options open to the playcaller. To suggest that Bush "is only a bit player in the offense" is to suggest the same of everyone other than Drew Brees. Can we do without all those other bit players? Would you feel fine without one of, say, Pierre Thomas or Marques Colston come September?

(Pre-reply: But Bush's salary isn't the same as the rest of the offense. I know that. So what?)

 

Next, Florio labels Reggie a 'role player,' which I'm sure is supposed to be another insult. It shouldn't be taken as such. To further my point about our offense: role players are what we need to win games. This team acts more as a collective than any other in the NFL right now. Sean Payton isn't standing on the sidelines every Sunday thinking about how to get the ball to the one receiver he can rely on. He's chillin' with some Vicodin and wondering where his Juicy Fruit is, because the offense is so damn good that he has nothing to worry about. Why not call another end-around?

Let's look at how Reggie did last year as a role player in our 3-man Running Back by Committee (Herein referred to as RBBC).

Rushing

RBBC TOTAL: 450 attempts for 2112 yards, 4.69 ypc and 18 TDs.
Reggie: 87 attempts for 507 yards, 5.83 ypc and 6 TDs.

Reggie only took 19% of the RBBC carries, so he's certainly no Mike Bell. But he had the highest yards per carry average of any Saint and managed to gain almost a quarter of RBBC rushing yardage for the season, with  33% of RBBC rushing touchdowns. I realize I'm glossing over his output somewhat, but remember the collective nature of both the RBBC and our offense as a whole.

Passing

RBBC TOTAL: 112 catches for 855 yards, 7.63ypc and 8 TDs.
Reggie: 57 catches for 430 yards, 7.54 ypc and 4 TDs.

Passes to the RBBC made up over 25% of Drew's completions last season, enough to make them collectively the biggest targeted receiver on the whole offense (Colston caught the most passes, with 19%).Therefore they cannot be ignored in evaluating the RBBC.

Reggie has pretty much 50% of the RBBC output here, proving his value as a pass catcher from the backfield. He also caught more passes in the season (plus postseason) than Robert Meachem or Jeremy Shockey. Bit players, I scoff at thee.

(Pre-reply: Isn't making the RBBC a singular receiving entity unfair when both Reggie and Pierre could have been lined up for many plays? Well, Florio obviously thinks the Reggie-as-decoy thing is nonsense, otherwise he wouldn't be a bit player. What defense is going to bother covering overpaid overhyped bit players who should be cut? Surely he never made a difference to anything.)

In addition to this, Reggie returned 32 of a season total 38 punts for 243 of a team total 265 yards and scored the sole Saints punt return touchdown of the season.

So what does that make Bush? Bit player or role player? If you're still not convinced of his worth, here's one last stat: in 2009, Reggie scored 11 of 85 team touchdowns. Nobody exceeded that, with only Pierre Thomas equaling it. It wasn't my intention when I started writing, but I've just talked myself into believing this:

Reggie Bush is our most explosive and highest scoring offensive weapon after Drew Brees.

 

The Saints should have every right in an uncapped year to spend way too much on a locally beloved role player who'll never live up to the hype $8m on Reggie Bush.

Fixed that for you, Mike. Ugh. The condescension here is overwhelming. "Of course the little ol' Saints can waste their money on Reggie to please the silly locals. Good for them!" It peeves me so much that I can barely form a rebuttal. First of all, "way too much" is subjective, and something I thought Stujo4 might jump on. Why is it way too much? Is it your money, Florio? Did we just go 0-16, with Reggie averaging 1.8ypc? Oh, right.

Fine, Reggie was drafted #2 overall and hasn't lived up to that draft position. We all know that. Does that bar us from re-evaluating his talent and potential, and adjusting our expectations accordingly? No. The hype he mentions died years ago, to be replaced by the Sean Payton Pragmatic Perception of Bush, which coincidentally is the title of his next book, a Buddhist meditation on 70's porn.

I've posted it here before. Reggie is The Invaluable Intangible: his ability as a back combined with his value as a decoy makes him a huge and potent focus of our offense. Nobody other than Reggie himself believes #25 will rewrite the record books, but without him we'd lack an important part of what makes our team work. Of course, why should that stop Florio from imagining things? To him, us poor deluded Saints fans still think Reggie is about to bust out that 2000 yard season. We don't. Does our understanding of his ability bar us from adjusting his contract from our armchairs? Yes. I'm sure we're all concerned for Tom Benson's chequebook and will be at the nearest dealership come Monday.

On the other hand, the Saints shouldn't ignore the connection between Bush's overcompensation and their inability to sign the franchise's top running back, Pierre Thomas, to a long-term deal.

I won't suggest that Bush's salary didn't affect PT's negotiations, as that would be incredibly naive. I'm sure that it did, and rightly so, at least from Thomas' point of view. He carried the ball twice as much as Reggie and believes he was just as instrumental in our Super Bowl winning season. That's something I agree with, and good luck to him in getting paid. But there's so much more to it than that, and to avoid exploring the reasons for their two contracts is typical of the Myopia of Mike. Why provide detailed analysis when you can get page hits from a vaguely controversial statement? Or does Florio really believe that if Reggie were cut, Loomis would give Pierre his Steven Jackson money? Or that, even more magically, PT would suddenly decide he only wants $2m/year?

NFL franchises are businesses. The money doesn't come from a bottomless pit, and negotiations proceed as such. In positions of power such as the one they were in with Pierre, they're going to try to wring every cent from every deal they make, whether it seems fair to us or not. When they're trying to win over a newly drafted potential superstar, they have no hand at all; hence Reggie's huge contract. While Pierre has now overperformed his pay level and Reggie has underwhelmed from the initial hype, contracts don't always reflect performance. Reggie is locked into his huge deal, while Pierre probably wouldn't feel too comfortable shopping his 936 yard season around the NFL for $5m/year.

Ideally, the Saints would pressure Bush into taking less money. But he'd most likely refuse, and then the Saints would have to decide whether to call his bluff by cutting him.

Here, Florio dives off the deep-end into complete fantasy land. Rumour and guesswork entirely. But hey, what's wrong with judgements based on opinion and incomplete evidence? There has been no rush to pressure Reggie into a restructured deal so far this offseason, as ideal as Florio thinks it is. Pressuring a player who we've proven above to be key to our offense to the point where the Saints are put in a position where they have to cut him would be stupid. Loomis knows this, and that's why Reggie isn't out drinking with Bobby McCray right now.

(Pre-reply: Didn't the Saints pressure Pierre almost to breaking point? Yes, but Pierre had no other option than to sign, being an RFA. Reggie being cut would have half the NFL salivating to pick him up.)

Ideal, to me, would be to pay him whatever is in his contract and to have him perform well in his role in the offense on our way to retaining the Super Bowl.

But why write that when you could suggest that Reggie! Reggie! should be cut?

This FanPost was written by a reader and member of Canal Street Chronicles. It does not necessarily reflect the views of CSC and its staff or editors.

Comment 62 comments  |  10 recs  | 

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He’s not reading this, M-E. I haven’t linked to his article, either.

If I am good I could add years to my life / I would rather add some life to my years.

by Jay Preece on Jul 3, 2010 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

An alternative way of saying
Florio doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground

is to refer to him as having “a fundamental perceptual handicap.” More gentlemanly that way (not that there’s anything wrong with the way you descibed him)

"Dang! The Saints won the Super Bowl!" - my wife, Meso "Happy" Hu Dat.

by Dang Hu Dat on Jul 3, 2010 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

'differently-abled'

‘handicap’ is so un-politically correct ;)
“a fundamentally differently-abled perception”. umm, no, that doesn’t sound right either. Fine. Florio’s a retard. I said it.

In Breesus' name we play

by Breesus Christ Superstar on Jul 3, 2010 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

"a fundamental perceptual ability difference"

We need a federal grant to hammer this thing out, but I think we’re onto something. Maybe we can get SB to make it a 3rd “actions” option.

by Jshore on Jul 6, 2010 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

LOL

definitely gonna need a federal grant to figure this out

In Breesus' name we play

by Breesus Christ Superstar on Jul 7, 2010 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

I understand, and part of me wanted to ignore him entirely. But I can live with him getting some more page views if they’re from people who read this, or any other intelligently constructed rebuttal to his nonsense. Nothing’s gonna change Florio, so why not aim for everyone else?

If I am good I could add years to my life / I would rather add some life to my years.

by Jay Preece on Jul 3, 2010 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

green!

"Do not anticipate trouble or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. " ~Benjamin Franklin

by Dan Kelly on Jul 5, 2010 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Boom.

I would love MF to know just what a TURD he is in the eyes of the fans of the SUPER BOWL CHAMPION SAINTS.

I refuse to ever again knowingly click on a link that leads me to anything this piece of human flotsam writes. I have an incontent, overweight, blind, brain-damaged cat that knows more about the game of football than that idiot does.

Who Dat? TWO DAT! Do dat AGAIN!!!

by GSO Saints Fan on Jul 3, 2010 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

You guys are missing the big picture

Mike Florio and Mike Florio Jr. don’t care if you hate Mike Florio. Look at any of his posts on PFT, like this one, about Steve McNair’s murder. 13 comments, I count 11 against or neutral and 2 in agreement with Mike Florio. Not sure about Mike Florio Jr. This is routine. He annoys people. Ignore him. If you can.

Peace, love and understanding
Tell me, is there no place for them today?

by stujo4 on Jul 3, 2010 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

oops

this one

Peace, love and understanding
Tell me, is there no place for them today?

by stujo4 on Jul 3, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the front page, Dave.

If I am good I could add years to my life / I would rather add some life to my years.

by Jay Preece on Jul 3, 2010 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, you devil, you!

Fat, dumb, and happy. Hell, two out of three ain't bad!

I Want To Die In My Sleep Like My Grandpa – Not Screaming and Yelling Like His Passengers.

by Just 'Nother Day on Jul 3, 2010 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

I rec'd it- I think Arcuate laid out a very thorough, well thought out post

and I think it’s important to discuss when someone has their head up their a** and are getting paid to keep it there.
This is a very interesting topic for me- I think MF is way off base but I also think there are a considerable amount of people who might agree with him on this topic.

"I think we agree, the past is over" - George W Bush
"The greatest enemy of knowlege is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge" Stephen Hawking

by Philinwood on Jul 3, 2010 10:35 AM CDT reply actions  

I agree with Arcuate's arguments

…every one of them. Rec’d it too. Just quit mentioning that name.

It was worth the wait.

by MtnExile on Jul 3, 2010 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hi, M-E

Mike Florio. I also have a son named Mike Florio, Jr., so I doubt that you can outlive both of us. Mike Florio, Mike Florio! YEAHHH!!

Peace, love and understanding
Tell me, is there no place for them today?

by stujo4 on Jul 3, 2010 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

I love when you do this, Stu. Always makes me laugh.

If I am good I could add years to my life / I would rather add some life to my years.

by Jay Preece on Jul 3, 2010 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thank God for SafariBlock.

It was worth the wait.

by MtnExile on Jul 3, 2010 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hi, M-E

Mike Flornio here. I hear that you are a Mac. I, of course, am a PC. But your fancy big cat named operating system and i-utilities can’t stop my proliferation, even if I have to use an alias. Mike Flornio Jr. helps me with it, he’s one of those ’puter whiz kids you hear so much about. Anyway, thanks for helping me spread my seed!

Peace, love and understanding
Tell me, is there no place for them today?

by stujo4 on Jul 3, 2010 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thank God for SafariBlock.

(I guess you don’t understand…it doesn’t block anything called “Mike Florio”—or “Flornio”—it blocks whatever image I tell it to. So I can take part in this conversation without having to look at the Evil One.)

It was worth the wait.

by MtnExile on Jul 3, 2010 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

You could just close one eye or scroll down. I thought you were a Luddite anyway. Show off.

Peace, love and understanding
Tell me, is there no place for them today?

by stujo4 on Jul 3, 2010 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

or a young George Stephanopolis, and junior.

You think you know, and you don't know, and you never, ever will.-Jim Mora Sr.

by metryman on Jul 6, 2010 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

good argumnet, Arc!

I agree with it, and it was well done. I’d rec it twice if I could…

We've got 27 ways to add up to 11 (players on the field). I came up with another one last night. -- GW

by Hans Petersen on Jul 3, 2010 1:08 PM CDT reply actions  

but what's FYYFF?

We've got 27 ways to add up to 11 (players on the field). I came up with another one last night. -- GW

by Hans Petersen on Jul 3, 2010 1:10 PM CDT reply actions  

yes, Treme's favorite Tulane professor/youtube video poster

We've got 27 ways to add up to 11 (players on the field). I came up with another one last night. -- GW

by Hans Petersen on Jul 3, 2010 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

it's really the late ashley morris

who was the inspiration for that episode of treme.

the original post is here

and kudos to you, arcuate, for having the patience to respond to that moron. i can’t even read his drivel anymore.

by jful on Jul 3, 2010 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thank you

very much for the link, jful. Google also led me to other cites. I don’t subscribe to HBO, so there was no Treme for me. Even if I had HBO, I was not familiar with Ashley Morris. I just learned a lot about one Hell of a man.Thanks again.

"Dang! The Saints won the Super Bowl!" - my wife, Meso "Happy" Hu Dat.

by Dang Hu Dat on Jul 3, 2010 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

And f*** Kansas, Iowa, and your f*****g tornados.

Now that’s just lashing out, you FF. Spelled tornadoes wrong too.

My least favorite character in Treme, and least credible. Then I find out he’s a real person. Still not credible. At least he wore a Saints Tshirt, or was that just John Goodman?

Peace, love and understanding
Tell me, is there no place for them today?

by stujo4 on Jul 3, 2010 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Excellent post, arcuate.

"Dang! The Saints won the Super Bowl!" - my wife, Meso "Happy" Hu Dat.

by Dang Hu Dat on Jul 3, 2010 1:38 PM CDT reply actions  

Well written and I totally agree...

But some may say that isn’t saying much, “He’s my cousin,” lol. But on da real if he’s like most writers he’s googling himself and probably has read this. Dave do you have Google Analytics or something of that nature on the links here? We could totally find out…Anyway, one question thought: are you from the UK?

Don't worry I got your back cuz...

by TAYDIGGA on Jul 3, 2010 3:10 PM CDT reply actions  

Did my weird spelling give it away? Yeah, I’m English. I moved to NJ last year.

If I am good I could add years to my life / I would rather add some life to my years.

by Jay Preece on Jul 3, 2010 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, I noticed that “rumour” …. j/k

by BRSaintsFan on Jul 3, 2010 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah the spelling...

funny thing is, I always want to spell certain words the British way, I was an English major for a while in college, all those freakin novels got to me I guess!!!!

Don't worry I got your back cuz...

by TAYDIGGA on Jul 9, 2010 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

at least you don't spell it "Reggye Boush" - haha

"The good news is we're gonna sign you to the roster. The bad news is you're 26 pounds overweight and I gotta fine you, and that's gonna cost you more than you'll make for the playoff game." Sean Payton to Deuce McAllister, January 2010.

by Hans Petersen on Jul 10, 2010 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Florio is your cousin?

by shn_hldn on Jul 3, 2010 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

LMAO!
Sean Payton Pragmatic Perception of Bush, which coincidentally is the title of his next book, a Buddhist meditation on 70’s porn.

That, my dear fellow, is a good one!

by BRSaintsFan on Jul 3, 2010 10:24 PM CDT reply actions  

“Reggie Bush is our most explosive and highest scoring offensive weapon after Drew Brees.”

In 2006, Deuce McAllister outscored Bush.
In 2007, Marques Colston outscored Bush.
In 2008, Pierre Thomas and Lance Moore both outscored Bush.
In 2009, Marques Colston and Robert Meachem both outscored Bush.

In terms career statistics, Marques Colston has outscored Bush.

Further, all of these examples include Bush’s PR touchdowns, which shouldn’t count towards his worth as an OFFENSIVE weapon to begin with. Calculate his point per touch average and it is DWARFED by all of the aforementioned players, along with several others. The same holds true for his yards per touch average. What is your statement based on exactly, aside from your own definitions of “most explosive” and “highest scoring”?

"I was not on the boat in question." -Darren Sharper

by coldpizza on Jul 5, 2010 2:32 PM CDT reply actions  

I was waiting for you to show up.

If I am good I could add years to my life / I would rather add some life to my years.

by Jay Preece on Jul 5, 2010 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Last season, Bush scored 11 TDs to equal Thomas and Meachem’s 11 and exceed Colston’s 10. Nobody outscored him. That’s pretty much where I based my statement.

You’re right to bring up both yards per touch and points per touch, one stat I hadn’t considered at all. It’s 0.41ppt for Bush, 0.5 for Meachem (dwarfed) and 0.71 for Colston. Thomas scored 0.28 per touch. Garrett Hartley did pretty well.

I’m always waiting for you to comment because your critical thinking helps me rethink things. While I’m sure I’m wrong about Reggie’s scoring prowess, it doesn’t change my mind about his value to the team.

If I am good I could add years to my life / I would rather add some life to my years.

by Jay Preece on Jul 5, 2010 4:15 PM CDT reply actions  

Apologies, should have been a reply to CP.

If I am good I could add years to my life / I would rather add some life to my years.

by Jay Preece on Jul 5, 2010 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Btw, edited the original post to correct the PR-as-offensive-TD mistake. Thanks for pointing that out.

If I am good I could add years to my life / I would rather add some life to my years.

by Jay Preece on Jul 5, 2010 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Child, please

Bush scored 8 TDs last season, unless you’re counting the playoffs. If you are, one of his three postseason TDs came on a punt return. How can that possibly be considered part of his OFFENSIVE total? In either case, he didn’t exceed Thomas’s 8 or 11 TDs. At best, he was the CO-highest scoring OVERALL weapon after Brees, Hartley and Carney. Also, where are you getting 11 for Meachem? He caught 9 and returned a fumble. No TDs in the playoffs. That’s 10, unless I’m missing something.

"I was not on the boat in question." -Darren Sharper

by coldpizza on Jul 5, 2010 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I actually had Meachem at 10, too, before your first comment, when I checked pro-football reference and their scoring summary (bottom of page), which has him at 11, with none for the playoffs. Thanks for correcting their error. And yes, I was including the playoffs for all players.

If I am good I could add years to my life / I would rather add some life to my years.

by Jay Preece on Jul 5, 2010 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

he had one fumble recovery for a td, How can that possibly be considered part of his OFFENSIVE total?

by shn_hldn on Jul 5, 2010 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't you ever fantasize...

that the real Reggie finally showed up late last season? Can’t find those links I’ve posted elsewhere, but I do remember Payton AND Bush being on the same page (’09 training camp) about taking it slow until mid-season because of that weird micro-fracture procedure…

An exceptionnal (and finally healthy!) athlete with 4 years NFL experience, who got rid of “distraction” and who is already one of the toughest decoy to figure out for opposing D sounds pretty good to me but,

Will he ever be worth 8M? I doubt it. Can he help us Two Dat?!?

You know the answer to that…

Repeat? Under construction...

by FrenchFreak on Jul 5, 2010 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

rec'd

Defensive Coordinators game plan for this cat!

by shn_hldn on Jul 5, 2010 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

do you know what child please means?

by shn_hldn on Jul 5, 2010 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I like you arcuate...

I haven’t been here much during off-season but I’m the Reggie Apologist around here…welcome! CP is still the guy that has tremendous intelligence and logic when it comes to everything but Reggie…Cheers my ninja!

Don't worry I got your back cuz...

by TAYDIGGA on Jul 13, 2010 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

When will we realize that he says things simply for hits

on his site?

He doesn’t answer 95% of his criticism for a reason…..and the 5% he does is when he can actually answer b/c he got lucky and was right

He types up rumors in the hopes of getting 1-2 things right

by Alious on Jul 5, 2010 4:22 PM CDT reply actions  

Bingo

It was worth the wait.

by MtnExile on Jul 5, 2010 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

i’m never very active on here, but i must chime in and say florio is a cockroach who has a very public disdain for the saints, but i suspect he has a closet love affair for them. despite his stupidity, and for the most part what is erroneous reporting, he does put up some interesting stuff now and then. most likely for website clicks and/or instigation, but eh…it is what it is.

WHOdat? WEdat! TWOdat? REdat!

by Nola5712 on Jul 9, 2010 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

BOOM!

Fat, dumb, and happy. Hell, two out of three ain't bad!

I Want To Die In My Sleep Like My Grandpa – Not Screaming and Yelling Like His Passengers.

by Just 'Nother Day on Jul 10, 2010 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

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