Atlanta Falcons 27 @ New Orleans Saints 24: Dirty Birds Eke Out the Victory in an OT Thriller
by David "Satch" Kelly on Sep 26, 2010 3:36 PM CDT
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Black pants!? NOOOOOOO!!! When will Coach Payton learn that these are best kept in the equipment room? Try as we might, however, we can't blame it all on the black pants. The offense again looked somewhat sloppy with Drew throwing interceptions and receivers dropping passes (I'm talkin' 'bout you, Devery!), Garrett Hartley shanked yet another big kick (a potential game-winner!), and the defense, although not horrible, failed to stop them when it mattered most.
After three games this season, there appears to be a common theme with our O - come out and put up 7 points early, relax a little, and then come back to life in the 4th quarter when the game is on the line. They're comeback today only resulted in a tie that was later broken in OT by the opposition. I'm really missing those blowout victories from last year. They were easier on my heart.
What's your take on today's OT nail-biter against our arch-nemesis? Are Drew & Co. operating less efficiently or is their less than normal point production more a product of opposing teams bringing their best against the reigning Super Bowl champs? Hard to tell but I'm leaning more towards the latter. Tough loss.
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And that....
is what happens when Peter King picks your team to win.
by Generic Fan on Sep 26, 2010 3:41 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Boom!!
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by Dave Cariello on Sep 26, 2010 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions
why didn't we keep running the ball? Hartley missed the FG and it was on a first down
Ya, I know, don’t want to risk losing the ball but let’s keep running it and maybe get a TD instead of friggen getting Hartley to kick a FG
Ugh, rattled
I bet if we looked at the percentages
Hartley is more likely to miss a FG than the offense is to turn the ball over; Making Hartley the riskier play.
We know Hartley can be squirrely. It was first down from the 10 yard line. Just hand it off a few more times before bringing the kicking team out. Chances are we would have scored a TD. Atlanta was beat.
As much as I hate to say it. Brees is as much at fault as Hartley. He did his best Favruh impression with 2 ridiculous turnovers.
Bottom line: you can’t give a team like Atlanta that many chances. They played well and earned the win.
In Breesus' name we play
by Breesus Christ Superstar on Sep 26, 2010 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions
...instead of
…friggen hartley ATTEMPTING a field goal!!!!!!
Note to S.P. – You can’t rely on this dude EVERY week to win the game!!!
by BigCountryLV on Sep 26, 2010 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions
so i think Tay was right in his fanpost
Also, Ivory needs to be cut immediately. Horrible ball security even after the fumble and he’s not really a power back. Should keep Betts
Superbowl bound!!!...I know! do you?! Go Saints!!
his first NFL game
and you’re ready to cut him? WTF? He’s an undrafted free agent that has much to learn. He runs hard and if he’d had even half decent blocking from the O-Line, his numbers would’ve been substantially better.
And if you think Reggie Bush would have made the difference in this game, you were not watching the Saints defense on 3rd downs.
Although I love Reggie.....
That is NOT what cost us the game today. Dropped passes, coaching “Not to lose”, that ’s what cost us today
Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die!
WHO DAT?!
TWO DAT!!
by LA_No1_SaintFan on Sep 26, 2010 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I disagree
about Ivory. He runs with power. He pushed a pile two yards on one of his runs to get the first down. If another fumble happens then that is cause for concern. I say give him a shot at least while Reggie is out. By the time Reggie gets back we should know what we have in Ivory.
"Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth." --Mike Tyson
Two differences between this year and last
The defense is marginally better. The run D actually looked really good whenever Atlanta tried to go between the tackles. Outside containment is still an issue.
The bigger problem is the Saints offensive line. They have regressed at almost every position – Jahri Evans in particular.
agreed
Jahri seems a little less effective after getting the big pay day. Gotta believe the O-line will turn it around, though. The Falcons’ run defense has been pretty good all year and today was no exception.
"As soon as Tony (Dungy) said we had no chance, I knew we had 'em right where we wanted 'em"--Coach Sean Payton right after Super Bowl XLIV with the Lombardi Trophy firmly in hand. WHO DAT!!
by David "Satch" Kelly on Sep 26, 2010 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I really hope this doesn't turn into another Chuck Wagon situation
they signed him for 7 freaking years!
Naw, I seriously doubt that will happen with Jahri.
"As soon as Tony (Dungy) said we had no chance, I knew we had 'em right where we wanted 'em"--Coach Sean Payton right after Super Bowl XLIV with the Lombardi Trophy firmly in hand. WHO DAT!!
by David "Satch" Kelly on Sep 26, 2010 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Team needs to clean up.
Stupid penalties by the D, sloppy day for Brees… we killed ourselves
My bro and I disagreed with the call to kick it in OT. We thought that Payton should’ve tried the TD.. can’t trust that kicker anymore. He’s living in last season. Needs to get his stuff together
by Ezio_Auditore on Sep 26, 2010 3:46 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
The fat punk kicker let us down again.
The thing that scares me the most is that his miss went wide right just like his other two misses this year. He needs to fix that s***!
"As soon as Tony (Dungy) said we had no chance, I knew we had 'em right where we wanted 'em"--Coach Sean Payton right after Super Bowl XLIV with the Lombardi Trophy firmly in hand. WHO DAT!!
by David "Satch" Kelly on Sep 26, 2010 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
^yes, wide left.
"As soon as Tony (Dungy) said we had no chance, I knew we had 'em right where we wanted 'em"--Coach Sean Payton right after Super Bowl XLIV with the Lombardi Trophy firmly in hand. WHO DAT!!
by David "Satch" Kelly on Sep 26, 2010 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
You could see he rushed it
In Breesus' name we play
by Breesus Christ Superstar on Sep 26, 2010 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought he hit it too hard and pulled it. Same as every other miss this year.
Paging Dr. Melfi. Totally serious. Well, not totally. Paging Dr. Somebody for sure.
"Brees just channeled Tyler Palko on that pick." -Jeff Duncan via twitter
we can easily say we lost because we didn’t have Reggie, but I’d rather say that we just had one bad game
Yes, time flies. And where did it leave you? Old too soon...smart too late. - Mike Tyson
or we can acknowledge
that the Defense gave up over 50% of 3rd/4th down conversions, and the offense gave up 3 turnovers. Can’t win in the NFL with that kind of performance
Sing it brother!
I’ve hated this year’s Saints. They’re not showing the same drive, the same passion, that they showed last year.
The team looks thoroughly lackluster and uninterested until the 4th quarter when the game is on the line.
They need to discipline themselves.
Wtf is Brees thinking? He was accurate, bit his 2nd interception was a stupid throw.
by Ezio_Auditore on Sep 26, 2010 3:55 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
We have always known the D was going to give up yards
Where we fell short was all of the missed scoring opportunities
In Breesus' name we play
by Breesus Christ Superstar on Sep 26, 2010 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not talking about giving up yards
I’m talking about giving up 3rd down conversions. The Saints D was outstanding on 3rd down last year – top 10 for most of the year, finishing 14th (despite being 25th in overall defense).
basically we refused to cover Gonzales in this game
I couldn’t understand it. Ryan would stare the guy down from the snap and he would still be wide open time after time.
In Breesus' name we play
by Breesus Christ Superstar on Sep 26, 2010 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is it me?
Or are we not as aggressive as we were a year ago? When did we shut it down and just play for the tie in regulation? When did we shut it down and just kick a field goal on 1st down?
Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die!
WHO DAT?!
TWO DAT!!
by LA_No1_SaintFan on Sep 26, 2010 3:48 PM CDT reply actions
I changed my name and look what hapens
We can't win at home. We can't win on the road. I just can't figure out where else to play!
-- Pat Williams
by Fat Punk Kicker on Sep 26, 2010 3:48 PM CDT reply actions
Yeah, you better hide for a week... :)
"I don't think we're the team with the target on our backs. They're not gunning for us, we're gunning for them. We're the ones with the scope." - Saints defensive tackle Sedrick Ellis
I really hate
how we get a first down at what was it the ten yard line, and then we ASSUME that Hartley will hit a 20-something yard field goal. I know Payton doesn’t want to risk the turnover, but is it not also a risk to go for a field goal?
I killed my brother... I killed yours too. 9/26/10
In Payton's defense...
Hartley looked good when he kicked to tie the game. That one was right down the middle. Payton has to trust that his NFCCG-winning kicker is gonna come through in that situation.
"As soon as Tony (Dungy) said we had no chance, I knew we had 'em right where we wanted 'em"--Coach Sean Payton right after Super Bowl XLIV with the Lombardi Trophy firmly in hand. WHO DAT!!
by David "Satch" Kelly on Sep 26, 2010 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I get that
and I was even saying before the kick how I like Hartley and I have a lot of confidence in him. But if we learned anything in week 1 it was that he can’t hit everything, and against san fran who’s to say where that kick goes without getting nicked by that lineman (I’m just saying it kind of looked like it straightened it out, idk). All I’m saying is the offense was moving, and I would have liked to see at least 3 more plays.
I killed my brother... I killed yours too. 9/26/10
by DwideSchrude on Sep 26, 2010 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
The risk of missing < risk of a turnover
in general, it doesn’t take into account black pants of fat punk kickers
maybe over the history of the nfl
but not for hartley this season
In Breesus' name we play
by Breesus Christ Superstar on Sep 26, 2010 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Well elite status was nice well it lasted
Hello mediocrity my dear old friend
World Champions at last
A dirty bird cant fly with a broken wing
by mississippisaintsfan on Sep 26, 2010 3:50 PM CDT reply actions
Yep
The absolute worst thing is John Clayton will use this loss to opine about how he was right about the Falcons being better than us this year. He’ll probably drop us out of the top ten in his BS rankings this week. I hate that little weasel.
"As soon as Tony (Dungy) said we had no chance, I knew we had 'em right where we wanted 'em"--Coach Sean Payton right after Super Bowl XLIV with the Lombardi Trophy firmly in hand. WHO DAT!!
by David "Satch" Kelly on Sep 26, 2010 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Come on man Falcons are good dude.
Sorry bout all the $hit talk. Good game boys catch you at the GA Dome.
Rule #1: Double tap.
dont worry about the talk myou were just having fun
and i believe you beat us I’m not whinning like the viking fans saying we beat ourselves
World Champions at last
A dirty bird cant fly with a broken wing
by mississippisaintsfan on Sep 26, 2010 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh no they beat us, we had chances to win it and didn't take it.
DAMN IT!!!!!!!!!!! Oh well, least it is not as heart breaking as losing to Dallas.
Week 3 matchup: Falcons
Week 3 motto: Score
If Dallas plays the way they did today against us
I am pretty positive we will lose again.
Breesus Is My Homeboy
Dallas played today backed up against a wall.
They were fighting for their lives. They had to win, the texans didn’t. That was the result.
Week 3 matchup: Falcons
Week 3 motto: Score
I'm worried
about playing Baltimore and Pittsburgh. We have a rough rode ahead.
"Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth." --Mike Tyson
no argument from me
Falcons are a solid playoff team. Both teams made some mistakes today, but the Falcons made fewer and made more critical plays when it counted. We’ll see you again in the Georgia Dome. Better not count on Hartley missing again in that one.
Falcons ARE good. That was two teams beating the hell out of each other (from what I saw on Redzone).
However, I want all this talk about Brees being the NFL MVP stopped. He looked like s*** today. Those two picks were embarrassing. Rising star (yes) Matt Ryan outplayed him today.
"Brees just channeled Tyler Palko on that pick." -Jeff Duncan via twitter
Come on Man!!!
With the exception of two bad passes brees looked great. Devery dropped to easily catchable balls and meachem dropped one. If those catches are made then brees has an 80% + completion percentage.
With the exception of two bad passes brees looked great.
Oh noooo. Not from what I saw.
"Brees just channeled Tyler Palko on that pick." -Jeff Duncan via twitter
and those two passes alone
were reeeeaaaalllllly bad
In Breesus' name we play
by Breesus Christ Superstar on Sep 26, 2010 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree
The flea-flicker was open but brees threw a horrible pass and I don’t know what he was thinking on the underhanded pass but if graham comes back to the ball we would be praising brees for the pass.
I agree
+1
"I want the gas pedal down." Sean Payton
I'm a Saints fan--Hubby's a Bears fan.
by SaintsChick on Sep 26, 2010 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions
And lets not forget the next to last play of regulation
Lance moore was wide open in the end zone and he threw a wormburner. Would have ended the game right there.
In Breesus' name we play
by Breesus Christ Superstar on Sep 26, 2010 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions
You are right
I did forget about that pass but I thought he was under a lot of pressure.
and Moore seemed double covered to me
It's gonna be a great year.
by Hans Petersen on Sep 26, 2010 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Brees put up 365 with 3 tds. It was the int's that killed.
He is still a bad ass. I really think he can"t see Brent grimes over the lineman because both he and Grimes are short.
Rule #1: Double tap.
Never stopped him before. I say less Jay Leno and 60 Minutes.
by saints-fan-in-miss on Sep 26, 2010 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Amen to that.
Commercials too. Even though some of them are pretty funny!
"Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth." --Mike Tyson
Good game
as they always are with y’all. Y’all coverted when you needed to and didn’t make any mistakes (not counting the muffed punt. That was a fluke mistake). That’s a good recipe for winning.
"Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth." --Mike Tyson
MISSFAN LOL. Damn I needed that bro.
I know ya better than that so see the sarcasm! Geaux Saints
by saints-fan-in-miss on Sep 26, 2010 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks and i agree we cram the ball down their throat on first and goal and go for the TD
World Champions at last
A dirty bird cant fly with a broken wing
by mississippisaintsfan on Sep 26, 2010 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Time for some fear
I think we should bring in another kicker, not saying replace Hartley just get someone in for a workout to send him a message of ‘Stop screwing up’
Hartley wayy helped us get a Super Bowl. BUT He is not a seasoned veteran. To choose him as the first option with 3 downs left is nuts to me.
by saints-fan-in-miss on Sep 26, 2010 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions
EXACTLY
The kicker should be only be used as a last option.
I would have been fine with bringing the kicking team out on 3rd down even (in case of botched snap) but on 1st down? from the 10 yard line? When you know the guy has a tendency to miss this season? With the falcons D exhausted and rolling over? Why? WHY? WHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?
In Breesus' name we play
by Breesus Christ Superstar on Sep 26, 2010 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions
These reasons
1. PT had a banged up ankle.
2. Drew had a banged up knee.
3. Hartley had just nailed a kick to tie the game.
4. PT’s backup, Ivory, had already fumbled once in what was his debut game.
Payton’s best offensive weapons were dinged up, so why risk them getting hurt further when they were well within Hartley’s range? I’ll bet that’s exactly what he was thinking. It should have been an easy kick for Hartley, but he shanked it again. Blame Hartley.
"As soon as Tony (Dungy) said we had no chance, I knew we had 'em right where we wanted 'em"--Coach Sean Payton right after Super Bowl XLIV with the Lombardi Trophy firmly in hand. WHO DAT!!
by David "Satch" Kelly on Sep 26, 2010 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
not buying it
PT just ran a 30 yard screen—he was fine
Brees just threw all the way down the field—he was fine
Ivory should not even be in the game on clutch situations
We were 10 yards away. PT and Brees could have been good for 10 more yards.
Hartley should have made the kick, except he has a knack for missing them, and Payton is aware of this.
In Breesus' name we play
by Breesus Christ Superstar on Sep 26, 2010 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
PT just ran a 30 yard screen—he was fine
And he was bent over in pain on the sidelines after that run, or maybe he was just sucking air…
Brees just threw all the way down the field—he was fine
Threw the crappy aforementioned pass attempt to Moore in regulation.
Ivory should not even be in the game on clutch situations
A barely healed rookie in his first NFL game? YEAH YOU RIGHT! Why wasn’t Betts better prepared?
Your next two points-yes and, well, he just nailed one to tie it up…
"I don't think we're the team with the target on our backs. They're not gunning for us, we're gunning for them. We're the ones with the scope." - Saints defensive tackle Sedrick Ellis
by BRSaintsFan on Sep 27, 2010 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions
So none of those players can reach down and get 10 more yards
against the division rival with the game on the line?
They were too hurt? C’mon. Brees and PT would have been out there if payton hadn’t called for the FG.
In Breesus' name we play
by Breesus Christ Superstar on Sep 27, 2010 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Agree, the Falcons' D
were back on their heels. Maybe another screen to PT would’ve done it.
You think you know, and you don't know, and you never, ever will.-Jim Mora Sr.
Are we ever going to have a good outside linebacker? Vilma is the only good linebacker on the team, it's been our problem for years
by AKAY47 on Sep 26, 2010 3:52 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Rec'd we need one bad
World Champions at last
A dirty bird cant fly with a broken wing
by mississippisaintsfan on Sep 26, 2010 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
and we could use a couple of linemen also Oline and Dline after today
World Champions at last
A dirty bird cant fly with a broken wing
by mississippisaintsfan on Sep 26, 2010 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Shanle was beat all game this week and last week
I’ve stuck up for him in the past, but he has been getting abused in the pass and run game this year like never before
In Breesus' name we play
by Breesus Christ Superstar on Sep 26, 2010 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions
tweet
sorry who dat nation we need to play better i need to play better will get it done this week
"Brees just channeled Tyler Palko on that pick." -Jeff Duncan via twitter
terrible
In Breesus' name we play
by Breesus Christ Superstar on Sep 26, 2010 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Well if he had covered Tony Gonzalez perfectly all game he would have been the first person in 14 years to do so.
He’s always open. He catches a lot of balls. He’s un-guardable, no matter how old he is
you have to understand.
those missed tackles are attributed to GW aggressive style of defense intended to produce turnovers. This was a significant problem last year. It is a loose loose situation, that he needs to fix.
"I can eat oreos faster than him" Scott Fujita's take on Payton Manning SB44
by jeremysherwin on Sep 26, 2010 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Lance Moore by a mile of yards.
Call me CrazyforLance.
I think you are right, Dave. About relaxing a bit after the lead. This loss may stir something in them that will stop that trend.
I saw a more productive offense, but again you’re right, with a whole lot of unnecessary sloppiness. What if that were a penalty call? Unnecessary sloppiness. And I saw the defense perform better up until it mattered, when they were of course, exhausted.
Hakim dropped the ball!
by CrazyforColston on Sep 26, 2010 3:54 PM CDT reply actions
Here I'll say it! Sean is a gutless SOB!
He showed how much faith he has in the World Champion Saints offense! Am I pissed ? Your Damn Right! On top of that Brees and da boys FINALLY started clicking. Get the first down and instead of playing it out. Try a FG! Where the hell is that killer instinct ? F it!
by saints-fan-in-miss on Sep 26, 2010 3:54 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd THAT!
Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die!
WHO DAT?!
TWO DAT!!
by LA_No1_SaintFan on Sep 26, 2010 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions
La_No1 Took balls to rec that! Tank Ya
by saints-fan-in-miss on Sep 26, 2010 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
It took bigger balls to say it!
Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die!
WHO DAT?!
TWO DAT!!
by LA_No1_SaintFan on Sep 26, 2010 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Sean gutless????
I understad your pissed but there is nothing gutless about payton
by blackandgoldbuddha on Sep 26, 2010 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Black and Gold. I understand your faith. BUT. He not only showed he had no faith in the greatest Saints offense of all time. He sent that message to that offense.
by saints-fan-in-miss on Sep 26, 2010 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
hmm.
Now that you’ve mentioned it, he’s sorta been showing it through three games. He was awfully pleased with no turnovers through two games, too pleased. He even got Brees to buy into to it.
While we’re all going, Whaa?
Hakim dropped the ball!
by CrazyforColston on Sep 26, 2010 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Just my opinion but...
This is 2010 season not 2009….we are not going to blow everyone out. This is literally like a SB for ATL the havent beaten the saints in so long….every team I believe is giving them there all…I think Payton is being conservative but Im going to let the season play out a little more before I second guess Payton thats all….
by blackandgoldbuddha on Sep 26, 2010 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Black and Gold. I'm not judging payton for the past only this game.
One question . Where was his faith in this offense? Do not think that didn’t make a statement to his offense. promise you it did. How that plays out we will see. GEAUX SAINTS
by saints-fan-in-miss on Sep 26, 2010 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok...it will play out bad the season is over turn out the lights and go home...
Just joking I see your point….but we’ll see
by blackandgoldbuddha on Sep 26, 2010 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't understand why we kicked it on first down? why not run 3 more times, let Hartley relax a little and stuff
People actually seem to forget that Hartley tied the game up from a further distance (if i’m not mistaken)
I think Payton was fearing the turnover
Also, both PT and Drew were a little banged up at that point. Ivory had already fumbled once. He simply trusted his kicker and his kicker failed him.
"As soon as Tony (Dungy) said we had no chance, I knew we had 'em right where we wanted 'em"--Coach Sean Payton right after Super Bowl XLIV with the Lombardi Trophy firmly in hand. WHO DAT!!
by David "Satch" Kelly on Sep 26, 2010 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Sometimes.................
the luck dont roll with you………………..and this was onr of them. I know Hartley feels terrible.
My Magnificent Black and Gold Warriors
I hear you
But, let’s just say they run the ball on that 1st down from the 10, fumble and ATL recovers. I could very easily see at least 10 comments here about how we should have just kicked the game winning FG and not have risked it from the 10 yard line.
And lets say they do fumble? Get the ball at what the 10?
by saints-fan-in-miss on Sep 26, 2010 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah this...
Worst case is you fumble the ball at like the 10 or maybe the 5. Atlanta starts with a really long field and less time. I say that it’s telling offense that he has more faith in Hartley’s foot than the whole offense. I really hated this call
"Pigs have flown, hell has frozen over....", Jim Henderson
Postgame podcast
everybody join the podcast with Dave, Kevin and me Ralph Malbrough..and get the anger out…http://www.blogtalkradio.com/forecastradio Show starts now…4pm
Tough loss
Who is the Panthers TE? We`ve given up big plays to Shiancoe , Davis and
now Gonzalez . Some gutsy calls by Smith on 4th down.
Obviously down on Hartley right now but The Falcons played a great game
and deserved the win, I thought we hung in there pretty well on reflection but
it just wasn`t to be.
Gutted? Of course but we lost to a good team who out-played us on the day.
Roll on next sunday..
Aints no more
How many times does Hartley have to save the day?
His popularity changes with every game. He is either the hero or the loser. I know some people hate him but he has come through with some MAJOR wins when we really needed him.
Was Gonzalez blowing though his coverage or was he just not properly covered?
And man some of you give up so easily. Be devastated by a loss, be frustrated with the team, hold your team to it’s potential – but stop acting like this loss means the entire season is crap and this team sucks. I bet when your kid comes home with an F you don’t throw him out on the street because he has nothing left to offer.
Breesus Is My Homeboy
Sara first , good point on Hartley . He wayyyyy helped us get a SB.
But my problem is , why would Sean Payton opt for and unseasoned kicker over the greatest Saints offense of all time. pretty simple question. They might fumble? Yes but haven’t all day ? NO F’n balls at that moment in time. Am I done with the saints. Get real . Thats like am I done with breathing air. Am I just going off at a Saints loss. Nope . been there For a hell of a lot more losses than win s over the last 30 yrs. BUT WTF was with Paytons call? That makes me nuts.
by saints-fan-in-miss on Sep 26, 2010 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Well said Sarah...
I’m not worried for the season as for this game. They had this one and let it go.
"Pigs have flown, hell has frozen over....", Jim Henderson
AarahT, I am surprised at the amount of hateing going on too
Damn, Did you all think we would go undefeated???? We knew there would be losses. This should not have been one of them but it happened, get over it. I still love my Saints
My Magnificent Black and Gold Warriors
Sly don't mistake pointing out a BS undefendable call on paytons part for hate'n.
You know me better than that.
by saints-fan-in-miss on Sep 26, 2010 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Listen up
Nobody’s giving up on the Saints. Were 2-1. Hate to lose a division home game, but I think over the course of the season we will still win the division.
I haven’t forgotten Hartley making some clutch kicks. I also haven’t forgot his botched ones either. Knowing that he is approximately 50% on his kicks this season, why make him kick on FIRST down? Run a few more plays. If he misses on 4th down, then so be it.
In Breesus' name we play
by Breesus Christ Superstar on Sep 26, 2010 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions
This may just be exatctly what the Saints need...
The O has been flat though the first 3 games of the season. We need too have more than one or two good sustained drives in a game. With the exception of Shocky and Colston our receivers need too make catches not wiff on the easy stuff. Henderson especially need some glue on his hands. The O-line has been manhandled seemingly at will by these first 3 teams, which is a shame considering I felt they played above themselves last season. They just don’t seem too have the drive too win they did in the playoffs. They look slow and flat on most plays. Many times getting blown up by what should be far less skilled or experienced players. Also 122 is a great passer rating if your J. Cutler last season but this is Drew Brees. Now with all the dropped passes I know that is not totally his fault but those 2 int. were all him.
Now I can’t be completely critical of the defense this game or the season. I’ve not been a fan of Harper in the past but he was put in a position too fail by the coaching staff in this one and did his best too make plays against one of the best TE’s in the league. He should have had some help or put some else on him. You can’t ask the defense too play 2/3 to 3/4 of a game and pitch a shut out. We have too have more success on offense too help these guys out.
I’m also not sure that you could expect much more from any special teams unit than the outstanding one we witnessed today. Please someone tell me if there is something they left out there on the table I know I didn’t see it. Ok with the exception of the missed kick at the end. Which I for one am not going too blame on Hartley … we lost that game a long time before that kick and should have used all the plays up before kicking maybe get a TD there instead of the miss. I was yelling at the TV on that one.
Maybe in the end this is the wake up call the team and especially the offense needs too get rolling again. Your not going to win all the close ones and sooner or later if they wanna show they are a top level team they need too put teams away often and early.
In my opinion a lot of this loss goes too poor coaching, like putting in Ivory in a 4th and 1 for one of his first carries in the NFL. It hurts him and it hurts the team. The upside of that can’t come close too comparing with the downsides.
"Pigs have flown, hell has frozen over....", Jim Henderson
Agreed!
They need a wake up call and I would rather deal with a loss sooner than later.
Breesus Is My Homeboy
other world champions such as the 49ers during their heyday and the Cowboys would not worry about
having to run the ball instead of passing to prevent turnovers and also would not kick on first down. Have confidence in the offense and play your game.
"I think we agree, the past is over" - George W Bush
"The greatest enemy of knowlege is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge" Stephen Hawking
But you also need to have confidence in your kicker.
If you can’t rely on him to make a chip shot field goal in OT, you probably need to find another kicker. I know he did great in the playoffs, but he’s unreliable.
Maybe Fujita was right and he really is just a little punk.
Drew Dat sure, but on fourth down. That tells the offense, well better try a kick, not to confident in you guys. Damn !
by saints-fan-in-miss on Sep 26, 2010 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Wheather it was first down or fourth down is a different debate. The bottom line is most high school kickers make that kick. There is no excuse for a professional kicker to miss half of his attempts in the first three games unless you’re pushing him to make 50+ yarders on a consistent basis.
If I’m Payton, I’m looking for an alternative.
Drew disagree there. Most High school teams don't have an offense like the Saints.
Understand your point but hartley may be or not a great kicker. What he is not is a proven veteran. Take him over your offense with 3 down left? Nope sorry
by saints-fan-in-miss on Sep 26, 2010 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions
We are comparing apples and oranges. I didn’t agree with the field goal attempt on first down either.
But that doesn’t negate the fact that he blew a very easy field goal attempt….. In the dome…. Short kick…. Wasn’t blocked…. Game on the line.
At this point, I would guess his confidence is shattered. It’s just an educated guess but he doesn’t strike me as the type who can overcome that. If he stays around, I sincerely hope I’m wrong, but I think we should cut our losses as soon as the opportunity is available.
disagree
They guy has choked on a few, but he has also made some money kicks. He is definitely our best kicking option, just not a perfect option. Knowing this, coach should try only to rely on him as a last option.
In Breesus' name we play
by Breesus Christ Superstar on Sep 26, 2010 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions
He's still a young inexperienced player
In Breesus' name we play
by Breesus Christ Superstar on Sep 26, 2010 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions
who has never kicked a full season for us
It's gonna be a great year.
by Hans Petersen on Sep 26, 2010 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions
We would have had a better chance of winning if we had been down by 4 points.
But it seems that some people are critical of my not having a lot of confidence in Hartley and, at the same time, are critical of Payton because he had confidence in him.
not critical of you
It’s just that we know what hartley is so far this season: unpredictable.
Sean knows it too. So dont bring him out until you have to.
I still think Hartley has a promising career. I wouldn’t cut him. There isn’t an available kicker that is any better anyway.
In Breesus' name we play
by Breesus Christ Superstar on Sep 26, 2010 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions
..... had to take a break to watch Drew on "60 Minutes".....
We could all debate the timing of the FG attempt for a long time, but I would guess that most coach’s would have done the same thing as Payton did. The ball was on the 20 yard line and the right hash mark. For any NFL kicker, it doesn’t get much easier. And, had he made it, more than likely no one would have even brought up that it was on first down.
I’m not suggesting we should cut him as some sort of punative action or that I think are any other better options available right now. But when and if a more predictable or reliable option presents itself, go for it.
With few exceptions (Morten Anderson certainly comes to mind), kickers are the most expendable players on a football team. As a result, I try not to get too emotionally attached to them. I’ll give Hartley all the credit he deserves for his play in the NFC Championship Game and the Super Bowl. But when he made the OT kick against the Vikings, I was more pleasantly surprised than anything else. After his performance in the Super Bowl, like just about everyone else, I thought “wow…. we might have found ourselves a kicker for a long time”. But his 57% accuaracy rate so far this year is a bad sign given the team hasn’t called on him to make any exceptionally difficult attempts. The fact he seems to miss the easiest ones only makes it that much more frustrating.
If any other member of the Saints were playing his position as inconsistently as Harley has, we would all be calling for him to be benched. Unfortunately, you can’t bench a kicker. You can only stay on the lookout for a better one.
If there is any bright side to this loss
it’s that our offense finally started clicking at the end Hopefully we can keep that going Once Drew and them get back to normal, our “bend don’t break” defense will be sufficient
but until then we gotta tighten up on D
by BlknGldSoulja on Sep 26, 2010 4:51 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
tweet
miketripletttp
This was believed to be the longest game in Saints history — by 2 seconds. Previous long was also an OT loss to Atlanta in the Dome in 91.
"Brees just channeled Tyler Palko on that pick." -Jeff Duncan via twitter
After this loss
maybe the Saints won’t feel like they can win with a mediocre performance. May be the best thing to happen to em.
Amen.
We will get them dirty birds back. We shouldn’t have kicked the ball on first down. ANYONE REMEMBER WEEK 16 LAST YEAR. However, the bandwagoners can fall off and I will be happy.
Saints "fans"
who only stick around when it’s good, run at first sight of bad to a different good team. They are the people skewing marriage statistics to 1 in 2 ending in divorces.
Week 3 matchup: Falcons
Week 3 motto: Score
JON08Ban good thought maybe you were talking about me.
Been married 32 yrs. If that some how defines a Saints fan.
by saints-fan-in-miss on Sep 26, 2010 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions
No not talking about someone in particular,
Was just saying if there are any people who claim that, they wont be doing that much longer. And the marriage jab at the end was commenting on the people who “Can’t handle struggles”.
Week 3 matchup: Falcons
Week 3 motto: Score
fair weather fans
People who knew about the saints and just started claiming to be saints fans last year. However, they didn’t care during the years we struggled ie Archie’s days, when we lost Jim Finks in 91, when aaron “I’m smiling after throwing a pick” brooks played, etc.
Some people stayed on from last year, but how many remember George rogers, Ruben Mayes, Dalton Hilliard, Dome patrol, Quinn Early, Toi Cook. That’s what we’re saying, those people who only like our saints when they win but then jump off to the next team that wininning.
Remember Finks. Rest his soul. Good man
Als o remember "Buddy D. " taking up for Aron’s dumb azzed smiling saying. " Believe me that is not what going on. They would kill him in the locker room." Next?
by saints-fan-in-miss on Sep 26, 2010 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Amen to Mr. Finks
I think some of us saints fans welcome new fans but we don’t like the stump jumpers. either stay on or get off.
doggone it....:)
KIDDING!
"I don't think we're the team with the target on our backs. They're not gunning for us, we're gunning for them. We're the ones with the scope." - Saints defensive tackle Sedrick Ellis
by BRSaintsFan on Sep 27, 2010 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Good point.
But I think if you’ve always considered yourself rooting for the Saints, or even a newly mented fan who isn’t just a fan because they won!, but because they like the sames things we like about them, then you shouldn’t need to have absolute encyclopedic knowledge to automatically be called a fair weather fan.
In fact, fair weather fan is what we really don’t like. .
Hakim dropped the ball!
by CrazyforColston on Sep 26, 2010 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I mean suspect fan
without encyclopedic knowledge. Not what I just said.
;)
Hakim dropped the ball!
by CrazyforColston on Sep 26, 2010 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry.
I was trying to correct myself and made things worse.
I just meant encyclopedic knowledge is not a required ingredient regarding being called a bandwagoner.
Hope I cleared that up.
Bottom, line, it’s the the fair weathered we don’t like. I think we all agree on that one.
Hakim dropped the ball!
by CrazyforColston on Sep 26, 2010 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Lets go with that! I don't knit pick every Saints game or play every week. But, DAMN !!!
by saints-fan-in-miss on Sep 26, 2010 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think anyone here is
…a band wagong fan. This is a great place to let it out and you’ve made great points.
Hakim dropped the ball!
by CrazyforColston on Sep 26, 2010 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Hell of a game.
See you guys at our place in December.
I am proud to be a Kennesaw State Fighting Owl. -- Vince Dooley
Hell of a game indeed.
Too bad it ended the way it did though, for us anyway.
Week 3 matchup: Falcons
Week 3 motto: Score
One thing is clear
the better team won the game today, bu there is always tomorrow…..
Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die!
WHO DAT?!
TWO DAT!!
by LA_No1_SaintFan on Sep 26, 2010 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions
The reality is that right now, the Saints are a good team but they're not a great team.
The unfortumate truth is the two teams we barely beat this year can’t really even be called good. While both could possibly get better as the season goes on, both Minnesota and San Francisco at this stage are nothing more than middle of the pack, at best, teams.
I can think of at least a half dozen teams that I don’t think we could beat if we played them next week. Luckily, we’ve got the easiest part of our schedule to right the ship over the next month.
And it has nothing to do with being a “bandwagoner” and everything to do with facing reality.
All I know
is the kicker (can’t even say his name right now) needs a hard ass boot out’ah the big easy!!!! No gumbo, no beignets, no hurricanes, no jazz music, no nothing!!! CUT HIM NOW!!!!!! Then we’ll be good. A lot of players showed some heart today then he missed??? WTH!!
Uhmmm with all due respect....
With him kicking the tying field goal were not even going too overtime for a chance too win. A lot more went into this loss than his missed kick. Give him a break it was a tough spot for any kicker too have too make 2 back too back too win a game.
"Pigs have flown, hell has frozen over....", Jim Henderson
In retrospect, I guess it is unrealistic to expect Hartley to make two field goals in a row even if one one them isn’t much more than an extra point attempt.
no problem I feel your pain ...
No really I’m feeling your pain and it really stings too.
"Pigs have flown, hell has frozen over....", Jim Henderson
Ok Ok
maybe I’m a lil pissed off but two misses last week, a miss this week? And maybe I’m being hard but dude a 29 yarder?? Come on now. I’m on some ol Janet Jackson “what have you done for me lately?” If it was at least 46 yards maybe I wouldn’t be tripping, but I’ont know bout this one. I mean kickers spose to kick right…..?
Time too outlaw the Black Pants the bane of the Saints...
I’m going too blame all our losses in the past 40 something seasons too them … and please no logic or miss direction saying we ever lost with other pants.
"Pigs have flown, hell has frozen over....", Jim Henderson
by ValientC on Sep 26, 2010 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
We need to donate them top charity for another country.
Hmmm we could use them as weapons of mass destruction...
Fed Ex them too some terroists!!!
"Pigs have flown, hell has frozen over....", Jim Henderson
The plane would miss the runway
My Magnificent Black and Gold Warriors
by saint-sly on Sep 26, 2010 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
What?
They were wearing them today! Did I miss something?
Two Dat!!!
by Big and Easy on Sep 26, 2010 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Yup
White Jersey, Black Pants.
Week 4 matchup: Panthers
Week 4 motto: Black pants, burned they must be.
Right, So this statement makes no sense.
I can only imagine what the comments would be had we actually worn those ugly things today.
Two Dat!!!
by Big and Easy on Sep 26, 2010 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess Drew-Dat didn't know
but I know for a fact we wore black pants today.
Week 4 matchup: Panthers
Week 4 motto: Black pants, burned they must be.
Thanks for clearing that up.
I think?
Please, burn the black pants!!
by Big and Easy on Sep 26, 2010 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions
It made sense in my confused and depressed state of mind.
What I was thinking and meant to say was:
“I can only imagine what the comments would be had we worn those ugly black JERSEY’S today.”
I apologize if anyone was unduly concerned regarding my sanity.
I'm glad the beer finally wore off.
Feeling better?
Please, burn the black pants!!
by Big and Easy on Sep 27, 2010 6:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Somebody has a tagline "Burn the Black pants", don't they
Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die!
WHO DAT?!
TWO DAT!!
by LA_No1_SaintFan on Sep 26, 2010 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions
you're channeling Yoda
maybe he could give a locker room speech to the team
It's gonna be a great year.
by Hans Petersen on Sep 26, 2010 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Yoda:
Offense, score it must, the blocking must happpen.
O-line: We are trying our best
Yoda: Best is not Best enough!
Yoda: Defense, ball must be stopped, the ballcarrier, his head must come off.
Vilma: Uhh that is illegal
Yoda: the head must come off!!!!
Yoda: Kicking, not happen till the last second
Payton: But I was worr….
Yoda: (sigh) Understand not what I say, KICKING MUST NOT OCCUR till…the…last…second
Payton: Fine Yoda, continue
Yoda: Thanks you, the juicy fruit, it must not be chewed till victory
Payton: Now that does it (punches Yoda)
Saints: (cheers)
Payton: Now lets go beat the Panthers
(Saints beat Panthers 78-3)
Week 4 matchup: Panthers
Week 4 motto: Black pants, burned they must be.
The missed FG
I may take some flack for saying this but I agree with paytons decission to kick it. Hartley just made a tougher fieldgoal and what happens if they botch the snap on a 4th down fieldgoal. He could have ran a play or two but I think he made a smart decision.
You'd have too make that call.....
if your the Lions or maybe the Browns. But this is the best offense in the NFL over since 2006. Give it too them for the win. Your kicker is something like 50% on the season because he made his last kick. If its 4th down or no time left fine give him the chance but Atlanta did nothing too show they were stopping the Saints on that drive. At least give yourself a chance make them stop you then kick. 3 tries for a TD is a lot for Drew and company.
"Pigs have flown, hell has frozen over....", Jim Henderson
focus on the good stuff
Well, Lance played one hell of a game. The D held up well against Atlanta’s running backs….Brees looked to be on target for the long ball today….WIll Smith got his first sack at a critical point. Special teams played well….
We are about to find out if Dem Boys can clean up the mistakes and win the division. Maybe this came at a good point in the season. The best teams build to be strong at the end of the season. This L should be a reality check.
If giving up 200 yards on the ground means holding up well
I’m scared to think of what the numbers will look like when they fail against an opposing rushing game!
Great point
LOL but it does look great compared to the numbers the Colts allowed against the Texans in week one.
Catfishslime Be carefull with things they can pull numbers on. Walking stats guys all over da place here. LOL
by saints-fan-in-miss on Sep 26, 2010 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I know as well as anyone stats don't tell the whole story
I’ll admit that for much of the game, the Saints rushing defense was good in the middle. They consistently failed to contain outside runners though, and of course, after 40 minutes of being on the field, couldn’t contain anything.
The biggest difference from last year.
I know we have alot of injuries to the RB corps but we need to get the running game going. If we can get the running game going then we can control the T.O.P game instead of having a disparity of 22 to 8 in the first half.
This is not a problem with the RBs
It’s a problem with the offensive line. How many rushing plays did Atlanta get into the backfield before either Thomas or Ivory had a chance?
I agree
"I think we agree, the past is over" - George W Bush
"The greatest enemy of knowlege is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge" Stephen Hawking
Time to sign Matt Stover
He’s more reliable than Hartley will ever be.
Are you serious?
Is this comment serious?
Week 4 matchup: Panthers
Week 4 motto: Black pants, burned they must be.
of course it is
If you weren’t such a moron, you would look at his numbers and see how much of an idiot you really are.
Hartley
Hartley was signed by the New Orleans Saints on October 29, 2008 to replace Taylor Mehlhaff, who was released. He played in his first game on November 9, 2008 against the Atlanta Falcons. Hartley came out strong, booting 13 for 13 field goal attempts for the 2008 season. He was expected to be the Saints starting kicker for the 2009 season. However, Hartley was given a 4-game suspension after testing positive for a banned stimulant.9
Hartley remained inactive until the Saints’ twelfth game of the season, against the Washington Redskins. Hartley then kicked four field goals, including the game winning kick in overtime that allowed the Saints to preserve their undefeated record.10 On January 24, 2010 he made a 40-yard field goal in overtime against the Minnesota Vikings in the NFC Championship game to send the New Orleans Saints to their first Super Bowl. 11 He continued in Super Bowl XLIV, going 3-for-3 with field goals of 46, 44, and 47 yards. He became the first kicker in Super Bowl history to convert three field goals of 40 yards or more.12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrett_Hartley
As for this year
0 for 2 in the Vikings game
3 for 3 in the 49ers game
1 for 2 in the ATL game
7 for 7 in PAT
Those are his numbers, he is off to a rocky start, Payton is bringing in more kickers this week, but to completely drop him for one bad kick is insane and completely bipolar.
Week 4 matchup: Panthers
Week 4 motto: Black pants, burned they must be.
If he was that reliable
He wouldn’t be available
Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die!
WHO DAT?!
TWO DAT!!
by LA_No1_SaintFan on Sep 26, 2010 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions
He's 42 years old
The Colts had signed him last season when Vinateri got hurt and did excellent for them. If you want to keep on trusting Hartley, be my guest.
The Colts had signed him last season when Vinateri got hurt and did excellent for them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhYQgRMoVas&p=48A4C600534EB23D&playnext=1&index=12
Just watch the first minute or so.
"I don't think we're the team with the target on our backs. They're not gunning for us, we're gunning for them. We're the ones with the scope." - Saints defensive tackle Sedrick Ellis
by BRSaintsFan on Sep 27, 2010 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Where is our running game and bad play calling
we really need to run the ball more than what we did and chris ivory shouldnt be on the fields this early. One week of practice off a injury. What is with the field goal on first down run the ball and get closer to the middle of the field. Hell we might get lucky and score a touchdown. The play calling was real conservative something i dont understand. Our defense played horrible and 3rd and 4rth downs. We had horrible pass rush and that timeout in ot trying to freeze the kicker was stupid as hell. The offense and defense have a lot of work to do to get into the same shape as 2009.
Ok . Here it is.
There are those who say that the run opens up the pass. NOT !! Nobody fears our run. Brees and company scare the chit out of teams. They have not exactly been the stuff of NFL films lately. But ,they are THE threat. STAY with it. I think the team has tried so hard to be balanced they have forgotten who they are. Today’s call to go to an unproven , non-veteran kicker , over the Saints offense is troublesome. It will either motivate this offense or demoralize them. Only time will tell. It showed a stunning lack of confidence in Drew and the guys that got our Saints a Lombardy. Call me crazy.
by saints-fan-in-miss on Sep 26, 2010 6:49 PM CDT reply actions
I hardly think 16 carries is balancing the attack. We passed way more than we threw.
And while I will also second guess Payton going to the kicker with lots of time in OT and the ball on the 12 yd line, it is what almost every coach would have done. End the game – kickers are supposed to make chip shots- that was like and extra point.
"I think we agree, the past is over" - George W Bush
"The greatest enemy of knowlege is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge" Stephen Hawking
an offense that couldn't sustain a drive in the first half and get points
It's gonna be a great year.
a tired defense that wore down over the course of a game
when the offense couldn’t stay on the field very long
It's gonna be a great year.
Yep D was done. Not the point of this .
by saints-fan-in-miss on Sep 26, 2010 6:55 PM CDT reply actions
that was a sweet sack on Falcons 3rd down in OT...
It's gonna be a great year.
by Hans Petersen on Sep 26, 2010 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions
but we had our chances to win
Lance looked good
Drew looked good when he wasn’t throwing INTs
the D did get some crucial stops and kept us in the game
poor Tusk
It's gonna be a great year.
Crappy end to a crappy week.
Lance Moore was the bright spot in the game. He was fantastic. Also Shockey. I don’t know why he has such a bad reputation. Have you ever noticed that when someone is hurt, he’s the first one there? He seems very supportive of his teammates. Drew Brees? I don’t know. When he looked good, he looked really, really good. But when he looked bad, he looked like Favre. Two picks? Really? One was sort of forgivable. That second one? WTF? Still, I would have rather have seen the game in his hands rather than Hartley’s foot. The defense was really disappointing. How many 3rd downs did we let them convert? And those 4th down conversions…good grief. Pitiful.
Okay, silver lining? Well, as bad as all that was…we only lost by 3 points in overtime. It could have been much worse.
"It's better to burn out than fade away."
SaintsFan-Ks. agree. But on that last drive the boys looked like the Saints we know and love.
Only to have Coach pull the plug.
by saints-fan-in-miss on Sep 26, 2010 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions
SF_K and you got to love Shocky and the play of MOORE.
All the more reason to play it out
by saints-fan-in-miss on Sep 26, 2010 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions
We still ahd our chance. For the first time in last quarter we had their D on their heels
down side give them bad field position
by saints-fan-in-miss on Sep 26, 2010 6:58 PM CDT reply actions
anyone know the extent of the injuries?
I really don’t think we have a very potent defense when we have to put Torrence and Prioleu on the field. Good guys, but not effective. Torrence is soft, Prioleau has to play so deep and so careful due to lack of speed. We should have some young guys in their spots who can grow into those positions- not happy with them at all- or at least some older veterans who were all stars at one point in their careers. Neither of those guys were impact players at any point in their careers. having said that, the defense dida decent job. Blame goes to offense and kicker.
"I think we agree, the past is over" - George W Bush
"The greatest enemy of knowlege is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge" Stephen Hawking
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