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Around SBN: NFL Players Ready To Welcome Gay Teammate

LynellHamilton Lynell Hamilton
by usama_young28
Today 1/18/2011 is #LETUSPLAY Day. Help #NFL Players & Fans #Blockthelockout. Visit NFLLockout.com and sign the Petition! RE-TWEET THIS!

over 1 year ago David_cariello_145_tiny stujo4 36 comments 2 recs  | 

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I like this stance better. When Lynell Hamilton starts a petition for me to get a raise and better working conditions I’ll help him out with his issues. Until then I’ll celebrate #SHUTUPANDWORKITOUTDAY

"I want to hand this trophy to the MVP of the Super Bowl -- and the MVP of the entire league.''
-- Saints coach Sean Payton, handing the Vince Lombardi Trophy to Drew Brees after Super Bowl 44.

by VAsaintsfan on Jan 18, 2011 2:42 PM CST reply actions  

When Lynell Hamilton starts a petition for me to get a raise and better working conditions

He’s trying to avoid an 18% paycut and having his health insurance curtailed, purely for the benefit of the owners who feel they gave up too big of a piece of the pie last time around. What’s the matter with Kansas? And by that I mean people are so F****** stupid that they don’t even know what is in their best interests.

Out with the truckers and the kickers and the cowboy angels

by stujo4 on Jan 18, 2011 3:04 PM CST up reply actions  

I always love it when people quote that 18% bull crap without thinking. Because they prove with just two words that they’re too busy brown-nosing the NFLPA to actually engage their brains. Not that you’re stupid, you aren’t, but you are forgetting to USE the brain you have. And when those people slam somebody else for being an idiot at the same time, the irony is just too delicious to ignore.

Do the math and think about it again. Currently the NFLPA get 53.6% of ACTUAL revenue, based on the 10-billion estimate and 1 billion taken off the top for ownership expenses. (They get 59.6% of the “adjusted” revenue, or 536.4 million.)

In the owners proposal, the players would still get 59.6% of what is now 8 billion instead. That’s not even an 18% adjustment to the size of the pool, that’s a 12% adjustment. This would leave them getting 47.7% of the ACTUAL revenue, which is a 5% actual reduction, and again a 12% adjustment rate. NO calculation of these numbers can come up with the mythical 18% “pay cut”. The only way you can come up with 18% is to try to pretend that the players originally got 60% of ALL revenues, and then now that they are getting 49% of ALL revenues. The second part is at least somewhat close to accurate, but the first is a blatant misrepresentation of reality.

And even if you could make the numbers work out, it STILL wouldn’t be right, because it’s all-but guaranteed that not one player under contract would have his salary adjusted one single penny! At least not directly by the CBA. Some overpaid players, like Reggie, for example, will be asked to adjust their pay or be cut… but this would have happened anyway!, absolutely regardless of whether there was a new CBA or not. So even those players who are asked to renegotiate STILL won’t be taking an 18% pay cut — they’ll likely take a lot more, like a 30% or even 100% cut, but they are also players who needed to do so already regardless of the CBA situation. And other players will actually get raises, because they have been deserving them all along as well. The CBA will merely determine the size of the pie, not directly cut any one person’s salary. And even if THAT can be considered a “pay cut” by twisting the concept into a pretzel, it STILL isn’t an 18% pay cut, it’s a 12% cut.

So no, Lynell won’t take an 18% pay cut. Nor will ANY other player take one directly from the CBA, because even if the CBA actually did adjust existing contracts (which is almost certainly impossible and probably illegal), it still wouldn’t be an 18% adjustment.

Next time you slam somebody else for being an idiot, look in the mirror first.

by FriarBob on Jan 18, 2011 3:26 PM CST up reply actions  

gah, mistype, meant 6% actual reduction…

And I just realized there’s another way you can lie with numbers and come up with 18%. You can add the real adjustment numbers (6%) to the 12% adjustment rate and pretend that adding those numbers isn’t blatantly lying through your teeth.

I don’t recommend it tho.

by FriarBob on Jan 18, 2011 3:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Dear Bob, tool of the NFL Owners: I’m sure, since you’re so much smarter than me, you know the latin term for what you just did in the debate. Pick on a small error in or to discredit the entire basis of the argument.

The basic fact is this: The owners want a larger share of the revenue and it’s going to come from the players’ share. And you despise me. Fine, I’ll learn to live with it.

Out with the truckers and the kickers and the cowboy angels

by stujo4 on Jan 18, 2011 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Here you go:

Smith said the latest NFL offer to the players would reduce their share to 41 percent of applied revenues from about 59 percent.
59 – 41 = 18
Echoing Goodell, Pash said Smith’s assertion that players are being asked to accept an 18 percent pay cut — the $340,000 per-player-average figure — was among the “misrepresentations of what our proposal is.” “We have never said it would result in players having to take a reduction,” Pash said. “The entire point here is to generate a pool of resources to have continued investment and continued growth, which would lead to higher salaries and benefits for players.”

So, the players share before was 59%, and now it would be 41%. But that’s not a reduction. Must be some kind of trickle down theory. Maybe Bob explained that above, but I wouldn’t know because I didn’t read it. I’m dumb that way.

Out with the truckers and the kickers and the cowboy angels

by stujo4 on Jan 18, 2011 4:12 PM CST up reply actions  

And as for your question about Kansas, is that some kind of blood libel?

(Just trying to make things lively. It’s getting dull around here.)

It was worth the wait.

by MtnExile on Jan 18, 2011 4:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Go pick on jeff again. Now that was lively.

Out with the truckers and the kickers and the cowboy angels

by stujo4 on Jan 18, 2011 4:18 PM CST up reply actions  

If revenues continue to grow, 41% of a bigger pie can be more than 59% of a regular pie.

Which doesn’t mean I agree with the NFL owners. I actually think you and I have the same view on pretty much the whole issue.

If I am good I could add years to my life / I would rather add some life to my years.

by Jay Preece on Jan 18, 2011 4:18 PM CST up reply actions  

If revenues continue to grow, 41% of a bigger pie can be more than 59% of a regular pie.

But the 59% of the bigger pie would still be bigger. I don’t see the owners saying they’ll sit on the regular pie. Although I’d like to see that. Pumpkin!

Out with the truckers and the kickers and the cowboy angels

by stujo4 on Jan 18, 2011 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Of course it would be bigger (TWSS). But then Jerry Jones might go hungry.

If I am good I could add years to my life / I would rather add some life to my years.

by Jay Preece on Jan 18, 2011 4:21 PM CST up reply actions  

But the problem is that those numbers are simply NOT TRUE. Or at least they are apparently not true according to all neutral sources available. All neutral sources I can find use the numbers I gave, which suggest a “real” shrink from 53.6% to 47.7% instead, and NO shrink in the “applied” revenue amount. Now maybe the NFLPA is actually telling the absolute 100% truth without any spin whatsoever and everybody else is just mistaken. But is that realistically likely? No.

Oh, and stujo, calling me out for a logical falacy that I DIDN’T do and then replying with more of your own really isn’t a good way to win an argument. Though I suppose I should give you some credit, you actually managed to cram four logical fallacies (false surrender, ad hominem, appeal to emotion, appeal to authority) into only six sentences. That has to be some sort of record.

by FriarBob on Jan 18, 2011 4:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh and by the way, THAT post above is the closest I ever got to actual ad hominem, and even then it’s still not. Because I’m not saying your logical fallacies disprove your argument. Neutral reports and simple math are together plenty good enough to accomplish that on their own.

by FriarBob on Jan 18, 2011 4:58 PM CST up reply actions  

And HOW exactly, did my argument disprove everything just by proving you were wrong on the 18%? It didn’t, so don’t go all false modesty on me and try to pretend it did.

And no, I don’t despise you. I despise UNIONS. Their supporters are just annoying.

You were the one that started the ad hominem. And no, I didn’t actually respond in kind. I called you out on it.

by FriarBob on Jan 18, 2011 4:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Next time you slam somebody else for being an idiot, look in the mirror first.

Tried at “bull crap”, convicted at “idiot”.

Out with the truckers and the kickers and the cowboy angels

by stujo4 on Jan 18, 2011 4:43 PM CST up reply actions  

That is not calling you an idiot. That’s warning you that you shouldn’t call somebody else one if you aren’t 100% sure you can PROVE beyond ANY doubt that you’re right. (For that matter, even then you still shouldn’t do it.) “Look in the mirror first” does NOT call you an idiot. It simply warns you to check yourself first before you go hurling ad hominem at somebody else.

Furthermore, I expressly stated that you are NOT an idiot. Last I checked, a warning that you might want to be careful about calling others idiots when you aren’t being factually accurate (or at least not PROVABLY so, as you are merely regurgitating assertions from somebody else and assuming they must be true — which is a logical fallacy in itself, i.e. appeal to authority) does not override my clear statement that you aren’t an idiot.

And bull crap is NOT ad hominem. Bull crap is not in any way dismissing YOU, which is what I’d have to do to be ad hominem. MAYBE that could be appeal to ridicule, but even that is a stretch.

The closest I came to ANY sort of actual ad hominem is “brown nosing”, but even that isn’t actually an ad hominem. Again, maybe that’s appeal to ridicule, but again that’s still a stretch. The worst you could really call it is judgmental language, and that too is a stretch.

by FriarBob on Jan 18, 2011 4:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Sigh

I miss the arguments on who was a bandwagon fan and who wasn’t. At least then we weren’t getting into English debates.

Offseason Motto: Burn the damn black pants.
"The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades." - Timbuk3
Canal Street Chronicles-you know you want to

by Jon Banks on Jan 18, 2011 5:13 PM CST up reply actions  

What's wrong with English debates?

You know what chaps my ass? “Is comprised of.” Pisses me off every time.

It was worth the wait.

by MtnExile on Jan 18, 2011 5:52 PM CST up reply actions  

M-E, just wait until it becomes acceptable standard usage - talk about chapping!

from answers.com

Is the phrase ‘is comprised of’ acceptable?

It is becoming acceptable.
That phrase is still considered incorrect by some grammarians and usage experts. It is, however, becoming more and more common and will, eventually, become standard, because usage always triumphs over pedantry.

The word comprise is synonymous with is composed of, because the whole comprises its parts. In the context of formal, prescriptive grammar, you would not say the whole is comprised of its parts, nor should you say the parts comprise the whole.

North America comprises The United States, Canada, Mexico, and the countries of Central America.

The Congress of the United States comprises the Senate and House of Representatives.

My entertainment center comprises a hi-def TV, DVR, stereo amplifier, and surround-sound system.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_the_phrase_’is_comprised_of’_acceptable#ixzz1BRcTJ8Rv

Happiness is a warm blanket.

by Hans Petersen on Jan 18, 2011 8:33 PM CST up reply actions  

"...usage always triumphs over pedantry"

Yeah, that’s called “entropy.” Sorry to be pedantic.

It was worth the wait.

by MtnExile on Jan 19, 2011 8:00 AM CST up reply actions  

it's also a cop-out

just because a bunch of people do it wrong, doesn’t make it right.

what is this, wikipedia of language?

Happiness is a warm blanket.

by Hans Petersen on Jan 19, 2011 7:43 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't get it...

Why in the world almost everyone under 40 I know is against unions? History easily demonstrates that a LOT of social progress has been achieve because of their existence and still do throughout the world.

Are unions in France disconnected with reality? I think so. Is every union infiltrated by organised crime? Surely is the case around here in the construction sector. Are there a**h**es that streches working agreement to ridiculous bounderies and get away with it? Sure, but from what I saw to this point in my working life, it’s always a little minority who does…

Are all of those inevitable flaws inherent to any social mass movement bring the toll on syndicalisation?

Just imagine what would owners do with no NFLPA…

Repeat? Under construction...

by FrenchFreak on Jan 18, 2011 5:55 PM CST up reply actions  

I’m 54.

It was worth the wait.

by MtnExile on Jan 18, 2011 5:59 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm 45 but...

I'll be whatever my union tells me to be

Repeat? Under construction...

by FrenchFreak on Jan 18, 2011 6:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Just imagine what would owners do with no NFLPA…

They would get sued for running a monopoly and be forced to break up.

Offseason Motto: Burn the damn black pants.
"The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades." - Timbuk3
Canal Street Chronicles-you know you want to

by Jon Banks on Jan 18, 2011 6:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Guess that's what players decertification aims for...

but I still don’t think that kind of “money-printing” business would be stupid enough to let that happen. A year? Maybe. Break up the only profitable pro sport league in the world? Some of those owners have huge mortgage…

Repeat? Under construction...

by FrenchFreak on Jan 18, 2011 7:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Why in the world almost everyone under 40 I know is against unions? History easily demonstrates that a LOT of social progress has been achieve because of their existence and still do throughout the world.

Up to that last phrase, you were doing pretty good. Because the problem with unions is that they USED to do good. They were desperately needed back, oh, a century ago, and still useful up to about 30-50 years ago. They’ve outlived their usefulness and become mere instruments of political power and personal greed. Now instead of protecting their workers from greedy owners, they’ve become a voracious appetite that can no longer be satisfied until they destroy the parent industry they parasite off of (like car manufacturers, airline industries, and more).

by FriarBob on Jan 18, 2011 10:21 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree, FriarBob. In fact, we’re past the phase you described. The parent industries are either destroyed or restructured without unions or with weak and ineffective unions.

Although GM intends to hire more than 1,300 workers, the UAW and the automaker have agreed to run the facility with 40 percent of the workers earning half the hourly wages ($14) of their tier-one counterparts. That brings the annual salary down to $30,000 from $58,000 earned during the previous contract,
I just bought a new vehicle and guess what? The price did not go down from previous years, it went up. So if labor costs are down and prices are up, there must be more profit. And who gets that profit? Owners and managers. This is not progress. Remember what Marie Antoinette said before they chopped off her head. Remember what Czar Nicholas said before they shot him in the head down in the basement. (That one’s a little more obscure. He said “What?” The point being that he was clueless as to what havoc he had wrought.)

Out with the truckers and the kickers and the cowboy angels

by stujo4 on Jan 19, 2011 10:45 AM CST up reply actions  

Some say Nicholas II’s last words were “You know not what you do.” Given the events after his death and during Lenin’s rule, I wouldn’t disagree with him. But I’d still say “What?” is a proper reaction to being woken up at 2 AM and told you have been condemned to death with no trial.

"I want to hand this trophy to the MVP of the Super Bowl -- and the MVP of the entire league.''
-- Saints coach Sean Payton, handing the Vince Lombardi Trophy to Drew Brees after Super Bowl 44.

by VAsaintsfan on Jan 19, 2011 2:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Nicky wasn’t that smart. And they were already awake. Here’s my source. Anastasia screamed in vain because the bullets bounced off all the jewels sewn into hers and the other children’s garments. So they bayoneted the kids.

Out with the truckers and the kickers and the cowboy angels

by stujo4 on Jan 19, 2011 2:32 PM CST up reply actions  

I just bought a new vehicle and guess what? The price did not go down from previous years, it went up. So if labor costs are down and prices are up, there must be more profit.

Well… yes, there is. Some profit IS more than none, or the outright “negative profit” where they basically were before. (And of course some of that price increase is also simple inflation rather than a “normal” price raise.)

Eventually, if the trend you seem to suggest — which may actually be occurring in general but I kinda doubt it at this point — then we’ll probably get back to where unions ARE needed again. Because these things unfortunately tend to go in cycles… because as a species we’re simply too dumb to get it right and then not find a way to screw it up again.

by FriarBob on Jan 19, 2011 7:31 PM CST up reply actions  

doh, that should have been “if the trend you seem to suggest - … -- continues then we’ll…”

by FriarBob on Jan 19, 2011 7:32 PM CST up reply actions  

and then SBN can’t figure out how to properly format an m-dash all of a sudden…

by FriarBob on Jan 19, 2011 7:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Either way, I think you missed my point

What does any of that have to do with me? Why should I support either side in a argument of millionaires vs. billionaires when I know that if the defense contracting industry were in a similar situation, no NFL players would be writing their congressmen or starting petitions to help me out. I enjoy watching what they do. I even think some of them are good people (some aren’t). But what does that have to do with me supporting them continuing to enjoy one of the most generous collective bargaining agreements in sports?

"I want to hand this trophy to the MVP of the Super Bowl -- and the MVP of the entire league.''
-- Saints coach Sean Payton, handing the Vince Lombardi Trophy to Drew Brees after Super Bowl 44.

by VAsaintsfan on Jan 18, 2011 4:46 PM CST up reply actions  

What does any of that have to do with me?

You’re right. Stop posting.

Out with the truckers and the kickers and the cowboy angels

by stujo4 on Jan 18, 2011 6:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Much like Rita....I can't seem to resist PhotoOp.

"Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not 'every man for himself.' And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked 'em up."

by jeff.l.b on Jan 18, 2011 5:06 PM CST reply actions  

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