Officiating!
This weekend we saw the call of "unsportsmanlike conduct" for celebrating levied on the LSU punter that took a touchdown off the board. Never mind that the language of the rule governing that call says that the celebration must be "egregious," which is defined as "Conspicuously bad or offensive, flagrant and glaring." Now I don't know if you saw his celebration, but here it is after the jump.
I guess it's a judgement call, but does that look egregious? Then in the Saints game, Turk McBride and Sedrick Ellis of the Saints were tagged with a ridiculous "Roughing the Passer" call when taking down Cam Newton in the third quarter with the Saints up 23-13. Both analysts calling the game said it was obviously a bad call and was in no way roughing. Payton was clearly livid with the officials. The Panther's drive continued and they eventually scored a touchdown when they should have been punting to the Saints. Luckily in the end it didn't matter, but what if the final result had been different?
Since we have NFL Sunday Ticket, we usually watch the majority of several games and bits and pieces of most of them. I have seen the same problem crop up time and again in all games against all different teams. Maybe in the end the bad calls just even out. But I've got to wonder if the referees calling the games are ever held accountable if a bad call makes a difference in the outcome of a game? Is it just me, or do you agree that there seems to be an awful lot of bad calls taking place this year? I know that they are interested in protecting players and promoting safety and sportsmanship, but to what end? At what point do they step back and realize that they are taking some of the excitement out of the game?
This FanPost was written by a reader and member of Canal Street Chronicles. It does not necessarily reflect the views of CSC and its staff or editors.
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There have definitely been more bad calls this year than there have been in recent memory. What really bugs me is the inconsistency. What’s roughing the passer in one game isn’t in another. I’m not sure how guys can play defense at all in that situation. I honestly believe the league should sit down with the refs and really clarify to all of them what they should and should not call. I know they have officials meetings at various times throughout the year for just that reason, but this needs to happen now. It’s getting ridiculous.
Also, Brees took yet another helmet to helmet yesterday that wasn’t called.
there is no clairty in any of the new rules in regards to H2H, roughing the passer and what a defenseless reciever is
These are all calls that have to be made in roughly a second, if not less. There is no way a ref can make that call.
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Canal Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Oct 10, 2011 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions
fify...
“What’s roughing the passer in one game quarter isn’t in another.”
Drew Brees gets hit helmet-to-helmet in first half – no flag.
Cam Newton gets his helmet-to-helmet in second half – flag.
Hold the "officials" accountable......just like everyone else
I’m sick of it. They are killing the game. Every week this discussion is continuing throughout the league. They had all season last year to get their sh*t together and they still look like they have no idea what they are doing. I think they should do away with the refs all together and let the people in the booth make the calls or at least let the booth have the final say in all matters. The roughing the passer could have cost us the game on a completely legal play. I get nervous as hell when we get a sack now just like what was discussed on the podcast. It shouldn’t be like that. I suggest making the officials do post game interviews with the press so they have to explain themselves and take the heat for their calls during the game. I want to watch the idiots watch the play in front of everybody and explain why they made the call. If they have to endure this on a weekly basis they will think twice about throwing a flag on a play that they aren’t sure about, are trying to be bias towards a player or team, or that they just think they can do whatever the hell they want to without repercussions. Throw the zebras to the wolves every week and we can get this problem fixed rather quickly.
Never pick a fight with an ugly person.......they have nothing to lose-Robin Williams
I have heard
that the officials that are selected to perform at the NFL level have to have a minimum of 12 or 14 years (can’t remember which) at the lower levels (high school & college) and have to undergo an intense interview process before they are approved and picked by the league. If that is the case, I can’t believe that the officials we are now seeing around the NFL are the ones that were performing the best. Something needs to be done as there are going to be games where players get hurt and final results are affected by bad calls or non-calls.
"It's about time that something good like this happened." - Drew Brees
But I’ve got to wonder if the referees calling the games are ever held accountable if a bad call makes a difference in the outcome of a game?
The refs should absolutely be held accountable for bad calls. Errors happen, but repeat offenders should be fined or removed.
They have a points system… but that’s all I know.
I’m not sure if they are tied to bonuses or their regular paycheck (like commissioned sales-people), or if it’s just for deciding who gets to officiate the playoffs and Super Bowl.
The primary purpose is for the playoffs, yes.
They need to extend it. A LOT.
And they need to make the calls reviewable.
I had heard the part about the playoffs, but forgot the source.. so didn’t want to say it was fact.
And, yeah… they need to extend it a hell of a lot.
Bonuses to salaries for not screwing up.
Deductions from salaries for screwing up.
But, what could be massive enough to compensate for giving away a game? They can’t go back and change the score – and shouldn’t.
And, yeah, at the very least coaches should be able to challenge calls and non-calls… and if they get them right they should get their challenge back.
Saw a report that NFL refs
earn between $25,000 and $70,000 per year, which is substantially less than officials in other pro sports, where salaries go well into 6 figures. Does anyone know if this is accurate?
I know the number of NFL games played is less than in MLB, NHL etc, but you would think the NFL revenue is substantial enough to pay the officials more competitively. You get what you pay for.
It’s accurate. NFL officiating is a part time job, not a career. They fly out and fly back in on a weekend etc. Not like baseball or hockey or basketball where you’re on the move constantly 6 months out of the year. Everyone gives the refs a lot of crap….fact of the matter is none of us could even come close to their amount of competency. We have the benefit of HD TV and slow motion replay. Makes a fan particularly jaded.
-Neon lights, a Nobel prize
-Than the mirror speaks, the reflection lies
Fact of the matter is
….fact of the matter is none of us could even come close to their amount of competency.
that’s why you don’t see me out there at mid-field wearing a zebra costume.
It’s their job. Do it well, stay. Do it badly, go. It’s really not that complicated.
Alimony is like buying hay for a dead horse.
by Just 'Nother Day on Oct 11, 2011 2:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Despite their* best efforts...
we effing won anyway!
- “Their” = “the officials”
I honestly have no idea how we won that game.
Panthers 3 and out…. oh wait, no there’s a penalty. Let’s give them another try.
Panthers 3 and out…. oh wait, no there’s a penalty. Let’s give them another try.
Panthers 4 and out…. oh wait, no there’s a penalty. Let’s give them another try.
“Saints are getting too many first downs! We gotta call something, but what…” “Roughing the passer?” “No, there on offense, stupid!” “Oh.. duh! False start!”
It goes both ways
First half, a Saints receiver took a dive on an uncatchable ball, DPI. On three separate occasions, CJ was put in a stranglehold by a Saints tackle after beating them, no call (wonder why our star DE never made it to Brees?). Two of those non-calls I mentioned resulted in sustained drives and TDs. Then we get a tick-tack holding call in the last minute of the game that was far less egregious, sinking our chances of overtime.
The game was close, the calls went both ways. Suck it up.
“sinking our chances of overtime.”???
You failed to convert on 4th down, and you were gifted a fresh set of downs on a complete BS DPI.
I’m not going to go over the list…
And, here’s me giving blame where it’s due… I think Pierre Thomas fumbled the ball (3rd qt i think), even though the refs called him down. There you go.
That does not negate the HUGE number of BAD calls and non-calls that went in the favor of the Panthers.
Suck it up??
I’m well aware that there were bad calls made against the Panthers as well. That’s just it. You can turn on almost any game and see multiple poor calls or missed calls on both teams. I don’t mean to seem like I am whining about the Saints game; that’s just the call that made a strong impression with me. I just am making the point that I don’t know why it seems so much worse this year, but I wonder if something could be done. It’s just sickening, if you are a fan of the game.
"It's about time that something good like this happened." - Drew Brees
by SaintsFanMD on Oct 10, 2011 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I feel you, but that's not the original point he was making
He was saying the refs almost won us the game. The refs calls went both ways. If you want to see the refs giving somebody the game, go watch Panthers@Bears from last week where a OPI negated a touchdown that would have given us the lead, it was so bad even your coach made a sarcastic remark about how bad the call was after watching our tape. Its insulting to say that we didn’t earn being close in that game.
“Its insulting to say that we didn’t earn being close in that game.”
I apologize if you felt insulted.
If the turnover by Pierre Thomas and the 7 drive-sustaining calls./non-calls would have been corrected, Saints would have won by 17, at least. It’s not an insult… just the facts.
as I've already pointed out, there were just as many bullshit calls and non-calls for the Saints that ended up giving them two TDs and a FG
Your “facts” are pure nonsense.
Ah!
What’s the fun in that? Call him a turd or something.
This comment was written by a reader and member of Canal Street Chronicles. It does not necessarily reflect the views of CSC and its staff or editors.
“unsportsmanlike conduct” for celebrating levied on the LSU punter
Nice video. First LSU!! LSU!! play I’ve seen this year. And good call, the punter taunted before the play was over.
Carolina queen, she's a walking love machine.
"First LSU LSU Play"? that was a national CBS gm
Big 12 ABC, SEC CBS on Sat. Wichita didn’t air?
You think you know, and you don't know, and you never, ever, will.-Jim Mora Sr.
I understand ....nothing.-Michael Scott
The Future is Unwritten.-Joe Strummer
There are no disgruntled employees, they're all extremely gruntled.-Michael Scott
How would I know? I wouldn’t watch them if they were on Bravo.
Carolina queen, she's a walking love machine.
Gaaaah "Real Housewifes of New Jersey" is on Bravo
Oregon, WVA were Nat. primetime ABC,ESPN. Thought maybe you saw “A Play”.
You think you know, and you don't know, and you never, ever, will.-Jim Mora Sr.
I understand ....nothing.-Michael Scott
The Future is Unwritten.-Joe Strummer
There are no disgruntled employees, they're all extremely gruntled.-Michael Scott
And Orange County.
And Beverly Hills.
And New York.
And Atlanta.
And Miami.
And DC
And Top Chef.
And Top Chef-Just Desserts
And Top Chef Masters
And Most Eligible Dallas
And Millionaire Matchmaker.
And Bethenny Ever After.
And Flipping Out.
And Watch What Happens Live
I don’t watch the rest of their s***.
Carolina queen, she's a walking love machine.
One Big Hot Mess ain't it?
You think you know, and you don't know, and you never, ever, will.-Jim Mora Sr.
I understand ....nothing.-Michael Scott
The Future is Unwritten.-Joe Strummer
There are no disgruntled employees, they're all extremely gruntled.-Michael Scott
Totally agree
The officiating has been inconsistent and just plain bad. The league obviously isn’t doing enough to correct this and that’s getting more and more annoying each week. Maybe Goodell and the owners have been too busy counting all of the extra money they just got from the players to notice. They need to do something or risk turning off fans.
Maybe they should pay these refs a decent wage to start. I don’t know exactly how much they make, but I’m pretty sure most have to work extra jobs to survive and pay their bills. Maybe give them a decent wage and then subtract a little for each blown call from their weekly paychecks. It doesn’t have to be a lot. Even if it’s $25 for every bad call, that can motivate them to do better. No one wants to see even the tiniest amount subtracted from their paychecks.
Plus, I think the refs have been thinking “Aw, f*** it! The replay can fix my bad calls.” That’s true for some but not for penalties like roughing the passer. The inconsistency there is inexcusable. There’s obviously no set understanding of the rule there.
"As soon as Tony (Dungy) said we had no chance, I knew we had 'em right where we wanted 'em"--Coach Sean Payton right after Super Bowl XLIV with the Lombardi Trophy firmly in hand. WHO DAT!!
by David "Satch" Kelly on Oct 10, 2011 10:19 AM CDT reply actions 4 recs
boom rec'd it
the owners have been too busy counting all of the extra money they just got from the players to notice.
Carolina queen, she's a walking love machine.
I'm not sure if this is still true or not...
but in the 90’s I had a friend who told me that the Saints didn’t contribute to the ref’s pension fund the same as other teams and that is what he thought cost them calls in games.
by BlackandGold4ever on Oct 10, 2011 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
I think you nailed it. The refs have gotten used to replay fixing their mistakes. And in theory there’s nothing wrong with that… except that replay cannot fix some of the most critical ones, the missed penalties and the wrong penalties that extend drives incorrectly.
I know it’s a MF idea which means few here will like it just because they don’t like him (hey, I don’t either), but for once the twerp was right. Put a player safety official in the booth and let him tell the ref to throw a flag (or pick up a flag) based on replay when there are serious violations or obviously bad calls on the part of the refs.
They don't make enough in most cases
I saw a national report over the weekend that said how much they make, and in the vast majority of cases they do work other full-time jobs. Perhaps they need to raise thte wage to allow them to put more time into training/practicing and make it a full-time job. As it is, many spend time with youth players at camps making sure they understand the rules and grooming them for possible future spots.
"It's about time that something good like this happened." - Drew Brees
For the college call, the matter is not egregious
The problem is that all premature celebration is completely banned.
Dumb rule? Yeah I think so. But it’s still the rule.
For the NFL… just don’t get me started. I’m too tired of this crap to waste any more time on it.
I thought the announcers
said something about the celebration needing to be egregious. I admit that I tried to look up more information on the new rule, but I didn’t find anything so I went with what they had said. Of course, it was clear that the punter had celebrated/taunted, but it seemed borderline to me and certainly a judgement call that could have gone either way.
"It's about time that something good like this happened." - Drew Brees
SEC "New Rule" this season
just never think the LSU punter, or any punter, would be the example.
You think you know, and you don't know, and you never, ever, will.-Jim Mora Sr.
I understand ....nothing.-Michael Scott
The Future is Unwritten.-Joe Strummer
There are no disgruntled employees, they're all extremely gruntled.-Michael Scott
What are the odds a punter from Australia would be the first kid in college to get called for that? One of the announcers had a good point when they said that punters probably weren’t in the meetings where the new rule was discussed with the players.
Heard that to, while watching
next…. no celebrating for water/towel crew
You think you know, and you don't know, and you never, ever, will.-Jim Mora Sr.
I understand ....nothing.-Michael Scott
The Future is Unwritten.-Joe Strummer
There are no disgruntled employees, they're all extremely gruntled.-Michael Scott
Ha ha ha LSU-fail
If it wasnt against LSwho and so funny it might be pathetic
Oh wait it is pathetic
by mississippisaintsfan on Oct 10, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Are there enough refs?
It does seem like there are a lot more bad/missed calls this year, but to me it’s a trend that’s been happening for several years, getting a little worse each year. It’s also the case that the officiating is generally worse in the first quarter of the season and then gets a little better week to week.
I think there are two main causes for the trend. First, the number of things the refs have been tasked with watching has increased quite a bit, and the number of judgement calls they have to make has also gone up. Second, there is also a lot more emphasis on certain things, like QB hits, than there used to be. I think both of these things could be mitigated by adding another official on the field. I really didn’t like when the umpire was moved from the defensive side to the offensive backfield, but I can appreciate that it was done for safety. I think if the tasks of the umpire in his current position were more limited, and another official added back where the umpire used to be stationed but allowed to move out of the way earlier, things might be improved. Another pair of eyes couldn’t hurt.
good point about what the refs have to watch, HB
the recently-added rules about helmet-to-helmet contact and hitting a defenseless receiver require a high level of distinction and delineation in order to make the correct call, and it’s getting increasingly difficult to make these in a game that is speeding up as the players’ skills and strength and speed increases.
I think it will take time, review and discussion, and experience to improve this, and it may get muddled each year as more safety rules with these kinds of clauses and conditional, subjective language get added to the game.
I also vote for NFL officials to have this be their full-time job and then be paid and trained and reviewed accordingly.
WIN NOW
WINGRAMANIA!!!!
by Hans Petersen on Oct 11, 2011 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh I completely agree it needs to be a full time job. And they need more men on the field… and preferably at least one or two ABOVE the field, either watching via the existing cameras or actually up on platforms of some sort.
I would also like them to be able to review the calls… but even if they have to only call penalties from full-speed imagery, at least let them have the eagle-eye view that makes the blatant holding I’ve seen many centers (including occasionally our own, which I ALSO don’t like, but far less than I’ve seen it on others) and guards get away with all year long.
And this would also give them the better angle so they can see when the QB is hit in the NUMBERS not the head. GRR. Now you got me mad at those blind idiot refs from Sunday again. Stop that! :)
You guys don't want to watch hockey...
Refs decisions are made according to the score and time to play…
Repeat? Under construction...
Ok, here's what you do -
Get 22 cameras to isolate every player on the field.
After every play, and during an official time out, review all 22 cameras to detect players who are not being nice.
If a player is caught doing something illegal, a referee with a brief case will trot onto the field and have said player sign a affidavit that he will not do that again. An NFL sanctioned notary public will witness these proceedings. After signing the affidavit, the recalcitrant player will then shake hands with the offended player, apologize, and invite him and the little woman over for dinner.
Play will then resume after a recall of the other 20 players who have either been snoozing on the sidelines or hitting on the cheerleaders.
LET THEM CRAZY BASTARDS PLAY FOOTBALL AND LEAVE THEM ALONE.
Alimony is like buying hay for a dead horse.
by Just 'Nother Day on Oct 11, 2011 2:52 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
FIFY
Get 22enough cameras to isolate every player and referee on the field.
review all 22 cameras to detect players who are not being nice and refs who are either asleep or hyped on the purple drank
Your welcome.
Some people are born to fame; others achieve it, while celebrity is thrust upon a few. "T'is a consummation devoutly to be wished for" Col. Joe Rickey
by Tac Hammer on Oct 11, 2011 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd it.
LET THEM CRAZY BASTARDS PLAY FOOTBALL AND LEAVE THEM ALONE.
Statement of the week.
Never pick a fight with an ugly person.......they have nothing to lose-Robin Williams
by AcquiredPanic on Oct 11, 2011 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
This sounds like a great idea!
/Roger Goodell
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