Is it Officially time for concern regarding Ingram?

by Grumps on Nov 3, 2011 2:20 PM CDT

I don't know about anyone else, but I am beginning to wonder if some of the CSC faithful haven't been correct in questioning the severity of Mark Ingram's injury.

As posted on Rotoworld:

Mark Ingram (heel) was again absent from Saints practice Thursday.
Barring a surprise return to full practice Friday, Ingram is unlikely to play against the Buccaneers. If Ingram's sidelined, Pierre Thomas and Chris Ivory should again split early-down and short-yardage work with Darren Sproles assuming his typical passing-down role. Thomas will be a recommended flex play in 10-to-12 team leagues.

At first, when I saw him limping to the locker room I was not overly concerned as it just appeared to be tender. Now I am starting to wonder if it is indeed an achilles issue, fracture, or some other issue that I would have trouble pronouncing.

Is the slow destruction of our RB depth starting early this season?

Poll

What is the status of the Saints RB corps?

The wheels are falling off and dang it, as delicious as hamburgers are they are just not a suitable replacement for a wheel.

2 votes

Nothing to be worried about. Ingram will be fine. Payloo just has faith in a healthy Sproles-Thomas-Ivory Combo.

59 votes

GAAAAA! Get Julius Jones on the phone.

4 votes

65 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost was written by a reader and member of Canal Street Chronicles. It does not necessarily reflect the views of CSC and its staff or editors.

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The running back corps without Mark Ingram should be fine. Thomas, Ivory and Sproles are a pretty damn talented bunch. Again, the issue is the manner in which they get used. There is no reason the Saints can’t run the ball effectively with those three. Unfortunately, there just doesn’t seem to be any desire or attempt to do so. That’s the problem and that’s my worry.

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by Dave Cariello on Nov 3, 2011 2:32 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs

^^^^^^This

There is no reason the Saints can’t run the ball effectively with those three. Unfortunately, there just doesn’t seem to be any desire or attempt to do so. That’s the problem and that’s my worry.

INGRAMANIA equals LOMBARDI 2012

by cajuncommando58 on Nov 3, 2011 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions

I second this^^^^^^^

There is no reason the Saints can’t run the ball effectively with those three. Unfortunately, there just doesn’t seem to be any desire or attempt to do so. That’s the problem and that’s my worry.

Add a Rec’d to that.

I spent 8 years trying to reach him...and then another 7 trying to keep him locked up because I realized what was living behind that boy's eyes was purely and simply...Evil.

Dr. Sam Loomis Aka (Donald Pleasence)

by Jricky70 on Nov 3, 2011 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions

boom rec'd it

And GAAA!!!! Do NOT call Julius Jones.

Now something's wrong
Where the Sherwood used to be

by stujo4 on Nov 3, 2011 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions

Do NOT call Julius Jones.

GRRRR!! Don’t mention that name SIR!!

I spent 8 years trying to reach him...and then another 7 trying to keep him locked up because I realized what was living behind that boy's eyes was purely and simply...Evil.

Dr. Sam Loomis Aka (Donald Pleasence)

by Jricky70 on Nov 3, 2011 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions

That’s always been the problem! I’ve been telling you guys this for years! In my opinion, if a rb wants to do it big in the NFL, don’t come to NO, you’ll be lumped in with a committee and have anywhere from 2-15 carries on any given Sunday. It’ll be just a matter of time before you’re seen as a bust, no where near your glory days. Ingram, will see this same fate. So far my “listed” comment about him is true.

Haters gon' hate...

by TAYDIGGA on Nov 3, 2011 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions

I agree with your point

but what exactly do you mean by this?

Do you think that for each game, they just need to pick one of them and based on the week’s match-up or game plan scheme have him be the bell-cow 20+carries a game featured back (with the others getting a couple carries here or there), or should it just be a more creative and varied commitment to the run involving better implementation of the “three-headed beast” running game?

I’m truly curious about this because I seriously want a better running game from the Saints, but I don’t know what it should look like…

WIN NOW
WINGRAMANIA!!!!

by Hans Petersen on Nov 4, 2011 8:02 AM CDT up reply actions

Tay believes that the RBBC (running back by committee) idea is a bad one, so there's one vote...

WIN NOW
WINGRAMANIA!!!!

by Hans Petersen on Nov 4, 2011 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions

I think a two headed monster in which the carries are split 60/40 is ok but I believe a running back needs confidence to run the ball well game in and game out and sure one might have a good game one game off of 12 carries but you still want the rock more. Some backs can never establish that rhythm in a game and that’s why you see backs that will have a 5 carry 60-yard game then see a 10 carry 30 yard game. There’s no commitment and it’s why I realize it’s almost futile to compare backs like Thomas, Ingram, Sproles and even Bush when he was here.

I’m not claiming to know Payton’s exact approach, a part of me feels like he over-thinks it. I’ve seen enough games over the years to say that it’s not always the “hot hand” approach. Many a games he pretty much benched the rb running better so I don’t know. I will say I expect Sproles to start coming down to earth. I think a part of his success has been that he’s not focused on enough by defenses and he’s benefited from it. Defenses are gonna start shutting that down real soon.

Haters gon' hate...

by TAYDIGGA on Nov 4, 2011 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions

Also

there is no reason we can’t have two backs in the backfield at once. This would make defenses have to guess which running back is running, or whether they or in to block protect, for the passing game.

INGRAMANIA equals LOMBARDI 2012

by cajuncommando58 on Nov 4, 2011 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions

I agree, if Payton really wants to get crazy with it but, one of the backs should always be Sproles—you have to have a dangerous back in the mix for that to work. I’m surprised he never did that with Bush back in the day. I think they line up like that a couple times but nothing great came of it.

Haters gon' hate...

by TAYDIGGA on Nov 4, 2011 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions

I beg to differ

It worked in 2006 with Deuce and Reggie. Reggie’s best statistical season.

INGRAMANIA equals LOMBARDI 2012

by cajuncommando58 on Nov 4, 2011 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions

Sigh...

I loved those twin back sets.

Is Deuce going to run over me or are they going to screen to Bush?

Nightmare inducing dreams there kiddies. I may try to make that a halloween costume next year. Dress myself as Drew, and have to cardboard cut outs extended from my back. Awesome.

I like Hamburgers!

by Grumps on Nov 4, 2011 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions

Yeah, that’s why I said they did it a couple times, but they didn’t do it that much is all I meant.

Haters gon' hate...

by TAYDIGGA on Nov 4, 2011 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions

They did it a lot in 2006.

Think it would have worked this year with just about any 2 back set we have on this team. PT-Sproles, Ingram-PT, Ingram-Sproles,and even Ingram-PT. Now you add in Ivory once he get’s back in football shape and the options explode. IMHO

INGRAMANIA equals LOMBARDI 2012

by cajuncommando58 on Nov 4, 2011 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions

we can bring back the ole "T" formation.. too..

hey.. i like it..

by the 9th plague on Nov 4, 2011 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions

They have been using the “Full House”… popularized by the Packers, from what I hear…

With a RB straight behind the QB and 2 FB’s to the left and right of the QB.

like this…

R.I.P. Steve Jobs

by Dan Kelly on Nov 4, 2011 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions

THIS and what Tay said.

Sproles should be used as much as he can take.

Bring back Aaron Brooks! He's the only one who can save us from the evil that is Drew Brees!!
Dallas’ misery will always be my delight
-TexansDC

by Jon Banks on Nov 4, 2011 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions

Do you think that for each game, they just need to pick one of them and based on the week’s match-up or game plan scheme have him be the bell-cow 20+carries a game featured back (with the others getting a couple carries here or there), or should it just be a more creative and varied commitment to the run involving better implementation of the "three-headed beast" running game?

Either one. Try both. Let’s at least see what we can do!

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by Dave Cariello on Nov 4, 2011 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions

There is no reason the Saints can’t run the ball effectively with those three.

The O-line still has to make their blocks though. It’s no coincidence that the O-line has struggled in the past 2 years and the running game has diminished in those same 2 years. I want the O-line coach to tighten up.

Bring back Aaron Brooks! He's the only one who can save us from the evil that is Drew Brees!!
Dallas’ misery will always be my delight
-TexansDC

by Jon Banks on Nov 4, 2011 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

amen'rec

R.I.P. Steve Jobs

by Dan Kelly on Nov 4, 2011 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions

I want the O-line coach to tighten up.

He seems to be plenty uptight already. Maybe he and Payton could cut someone during practice.

Now something's wrong
Where the Sherwood used to be

by stujo4 on Nov 4, 2011 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions

It's actually funny

How well the saints can run it and at the very same time how bad the o line can play. Honestly if they would just commit to any sort of running game it would probably be successful.

Whats for dinner, dad?
Wookie Steak.
Is that good?
It's a little chewy.

by WestBank on Nov 4, 2011 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions

It would take a lot of pressure off the O-line

If they would commit to the run game.

INGRAMANIA equals LOMBARDI 2012

by cajuncommando58 on Nov 4, 2011 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions

wouldn’t it put a lot of pressure on them to do something that (possibly) they are not built/schemed for…. run blocking?

R.I.P. Steve Jobs

by Dan Kelly on Nov 4, 2011 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions

Agree with Dave on this one.

I think without Ingram they will be OK, especially with the return of Ivory last week. I definitely was surprised last week at the lack of Sproles being involved, especially after falling behind.

Follow @NickBull1

by DeuceisLoose926 on Nov 6, 2011 10:48 AM CST up reply actions

Sproles behind Thomas and Collins on the screen would be prefect against the Bucs.. will we run it ?? who knows ??

You know Hartman, goodie-two-shoes is fidgeting around like a one-legged cat trying to bury s#!t on a frozen pond, until old Seth fixes him a couple of pink poontang specials. You know, that crazy drink that I fix for stewardesses? Two shots out of that and Hartman is shot to s#!t, freaked out. I mean, I never saw a guy having so much fun and crying at the same time!

by Deep Threat on Nov 3, 2011 2:53 PM CDT reply actions

Julius Jones????? Joique Bell, Joique Bell !!!!!

You think you know, and you don't know, and you never, ever, will.-Jim Mora Sr.
I understand ....nothing.-Michael Scott
The Future is Unwritten.-Joe Strummer
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."-Mahatma Gandhi

by metryman on Nov 3, 2011 9:26 PM CDT reply actions

Well, on the links Ingram said he feels good. He’ll be back shortly, there is no need to rush him. Once the O line tightens up and they are performing like they should be, we’ll see more longer runs from these backs. They all have potential, but need a few holes now and then to get through.

by tommy v on Nov 4, 2011 9:07 AM CDT reply actions

the "hot hand" may happen in any game..

in fact, it already has with sproles.. & would have been there again with ingram in the indy game, had he not gotten injured..
payton has done this in past.. with pierre, ivory, mike bell, even reggie..
now the commitment to the run cannot happen the way our overall team is built..

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=311030014

review briefly this play-by-play of the rams game.. what jumps at you..? the untimely negative plays.. cannot commit to the run when you are facing 2 & 15 twice or 3 times in a drive.. is a recipe for getting your punter a lot of action..
not to mention the defensive side of our football team.. when you have a lot of run attempts you tend to have wasted drives where you only accomplish gaining field position.. if your defense is somewhat suspect against the run or has the tendency of giving up big plays.. you will find yourself losing shortly..
without some quality runs.. we will have to “stomach” this hideous heavy passing game that y’all despise so much..
guess we could have already won 3 SB if it was up to y’all.. geez..

by the 9th plague on Nov 4, 2011 11:08 AM CDT reply actions

Sometimes...

I’ve seen him not go with the hot hand a lot. Or maybe it was just with Bush, which is a totally different story.

Haters gon' hate...

by TAYDIGGA on Nov 4, 2011 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions

What?!?!

cannot commit to the run when you are facing 2 & 15 twice or 3 times in a drive

That’s exactly when you need to use the run game to shorten that 3rd down yardage play..

INGRAMANIA equals LOMBARDI 2012

by cajuncommando58 on Nov 4, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions

hopefully you understood, even with the typo.. that i meant 2nd & 15..

on the other hand.. I DON’T understand your logic..
maybe i’ll go just plain & simple: a patient slow grinding run game can only happen when you are “on schedule” on your down & distance.. sure you can attempt to surprise with a run here & there but that is not committing to the run.. the logic on this is very simple & it is supported by the statistical fact that you can gain more yards on average by passing than running.. therefore, in a long yardage situation.. it is not the time to establish your run game (you should have tried that while you where on schedule)..
the other aspect (the leaky defense) is just as important..

by the 9th plague on Nov 4, 2011 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions

2nd and 15

Run the ball not just for surprise value. If you throw incomplete then it’s 3rd and 15 and the D knows you are going to pass. If you run and only get 3 to 5 yards it still makes that 3rd down more achievable and if you make no yards you are no worse off. The probability that you will lose yards running is small, because the D will have to respect that you may pass.

INGRAMANIA equals LOMBARDI 2012

by cajuncommando58 on Nov 4, 2011 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions

i'm with you.. but that is more of a situational running..

establishing the run will take attempts after attempts.. & that is where we can’t seem to get the “good” runs to stay on schedule.. if you are constantly behind the 3-4 yards or so per play, the run attempts tend to fade..
maybe you are expecting a more patient approach and payton cannot deliver patience.. he wants to drive & score..

by the 9th plague on Nov 4, 2011 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

If we are 2nd and 15

Then it’s usually a false start. The O-line is currently so jumpy because the D is keying on rushing Drew because we have become so predictable. We have got to establish the run game to change this. You know our Pass game used to set up our run game, but now we are going to have to use the run game to re-establish our pass game.

INGRAMANIA equals LOMBARDI 2012

by cajuncommando58 on Nov 4, 2011 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions

rotoworld is hip to Payton's s***

rotoworld.com:

The Saints have ruled out Mark Ingram (heel) for Week 9 against the Bucs.
It’s disappointing that Ingram will end up missing plus matchups with the Rams (Week 9) and now Tampa Bay’s generous run defense. Ingram still has no timetable for return, but clearly his injury was more severe than a “bruised heel.”
Nov 4

Now something's wrong
Where the Sherwood used to be

by stujo4 on Nov 4, 2011 1:37 PM CDT reply actions

Hope it's not Plantar fascitis, that's painful, Eli Manning had it

I’ve had it, 2-3 yrs. ago, it still lingers. It’s more difficult for a RB to overcome.

by metryman on Nov 4, 2011 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions

I had it too.

Painful. And it lasted for about a year in my case. I get a twinge every now and then.

INGRAMANIA equals LOMBARDI 2012

by cajuncommando58 on Nov 4, 2011 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions

It’s nagging. I run and that’s one of my biggest fears, it’s more about preventing it than anything. So I think it comes down to the trainers doing their job. Whenever I start feeling the aching in the arch of my foot I go through a routine with a frozen bottle of water, a belt and ice and within two weeks that baby is gone! All while still running hard while experiencing this.

Haters gon' hate...

by TAYDIGGA on Nov 4, 2011 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions

If I'm running nowadays

Then someone a lot bigger is chasing me and probably with a big stick or something. Do need to get back to my power-walking though.

INGRAMANIA equals LOMBARDI 2012

by cajuncommando58 on Nov 4, 2011 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions

LOL, i hear ya. As long as you get some cardio in, that’s what counts, cardio is the key, (along with diet) to losing or keeping the weight.

Haters gon' hate...

by TAYDIGGA on Nov 4, 2011 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions

watch out for this guy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkT_d2OTgv0

by Saintsfan75 on Nov 13, 2011 6:01 AM CST up reply actions

I still ice it, when feel "a Twinge"

played Basketball for 23 yrs. and never had this injury. Playing soccer with my young son and his friends after school one day and boom! WTF was that, man it hurt!!!!!!

by metryman on Nov 4, 2011 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions

I rode Power Jacks in the cooler for ten years.

You ride on your toes and the ball of your feet with the heel unsupported for the most part. That’s when I developed mine. The funny thing is it didn’t hit me till I quit riding the jacks. I think as long as I was working those particular set of muscles they stayed strong. When I quit they stretched and got weak.

INGRAMANIA equals LOMBARDI 2012

by cajuncommando58 on Nov 4, 2011 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions