Day After Rants: Dreamsicles
by Jon Banks on Nov 7, 2011 2:25 AM CST
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PrintSo I was up late bored and procrastinating from the kajillions of things I need to do. I decided I wanted to write something that kinda summed up my thoughts that people would like to read and find enjoyable. Well, I did try to sum up my thoughts. If you find this enjoyable, you may have a sick mind that only I would enjoy.
I also plan to use some stats ahead, so if you're one of those who hate stats, here's your warning. I don't plan to be all "STATS PROVE EVERYTHING!" on you, I mostly just want to point out some stats about how awesome players are.
Some more warnings, if you think Drew Brees is in decline, you won't like what I have to say. There, I've covered everything that I think can get me flamed.
Run Run Sproles
Forgetting that horrible play call on 3rd and 3 (Seriously, what the hell kinda play call was that?), Sproles had another day that made me happy in places I shouldn't be. Sproles had what was probably his best overall performance yesterday against the Buccaneers. Sproles ran for a nice 42 yards on 4 carries for a sweet 10.5 YPC. That is the 4th 10.0+ YPC performance by Sproles, however, this was also the 2nd most carries he had of those 10.0+ YPC games.
Sproles also had 57 receiving yards on 5 catches for a total of 10 offensive touches for 99 yards and a touchdown. However, he has a total of 1,499 total yards for the Saints this year. The Saints have a total of 4,719 total yards on the year making Sproles contributions 31.8% to the total Saints yards. That's unreal and insane. It makes sense for an elite QB to account for 75% of it's total offensive yards (Drew has 3004 passing yards out of a total of 4006 offensive yards), but for one running back to account for so much of the Saints yardage is unreal. He should be an All-Pro player, and getting him at ~$4 mil feels like Mickey Loomis got a discount.
No Respect: The Pierre Thomas Story
After spending 30 minutes searching the internet, I am unable to find any stats to calculate how many yards running backs have after first contact. The stat geeks working on that are likely too intimidated by how much Pierre Thomas they'd have to watch. In my mind, Pierre Thomas is an underrated back. He is the most complete back on the Saints roster, who can run the ball well, have a good burst down the field, can catch the ball and make plays after the catch, and most importantly break tackles and not go down at first contact.
I don't think I've ever seen one guy take down Pierre Thomas alone this season. I think last year's issue with Payton's doghouse either scared him or emboldened him to do better. And wow was he up to the challenge. With Pierre, stats don't tell the whole story. Sure, 8 carries for 66 yards for a 8.3 yards is phenomenal especially with 4 catches for 25 yards. But there were so many plays in which Thomas had to make something happen to keep the play alive, and he did it. I'm so glad Payton didn't cut ties with him in the off season.
Breaking Down the Ronde Barber INT
Sadly, I am unable to embed a video for you guys to watch as I go through this play. So here's the link, I'll try to make screen shots to help keep you up.
From this first shot, you can see 8 Bucs lined up on the line of Scrimmage. Ronde Barber is the 9th below the screen. On the top of the screen is a receiver lined up in man coverage with Aqib Talib. It's something to watch for with so many Bucs lined up in the middle. Notice Sproles lined up next to Drew's left and Thomas to Drew's right. If you remember the play, watch Sproles.
As the play is going on, what looked like a blitz, was only a 3 man rush. 2 Bucs are playing zone in the middle of the field. The receiver at the top in coverage is still being covered by the corner with the Bucs holding good coverage at this point. Again, watch Sproles at the bottom. (Side note: Saints kept Pierre in as a blocker. Likely the Bucs were able to confuse Brees into thinking this was a blitz when this was a coverage play. My belief that the Bucs confused Brees will come into play on this next screen).
Now, look at this play from Drew's eyes. We can all see Lance Moore open behind the linebackers, but Brees has to throw the perfect pass in order to avoid getting tipped by the linebackers, getting tipped/intercepted by the corner closing in on Moore, and then finally putting it to where Moore can catch it before the safety behind him (which you'll see in the next screen) can come up and knock the ball out.
Since it's 3rd and 2, Brees has to make a completion for positive yardage here. Everybody is covered and the only one open is Sproles who currently has 4 yards of space between him and Ronde Barber. He makes a (usually correct) decision to dump the pass off to Sproles.
You may not be able to see it, but the ball is in mid-air here. It's heading towards Sproles and Ronde Barber is zooming in to get the ball. Notice the safety by Lance Moore now that the play has developed.
Finally, Barber is now neck and neck with Sproles who hasn't moved at all since the ball was thrown. Barber didn't have his eyes on Sproles, he had his eyes on Brees. It was a perfect storm created by the Bucs to let this play come to fruition. Brees thought blitz, the Bucs went into coverage which gave Brees one less person to throw to (Pierre Thomas). The Bucs had perfect coverage on the receivers and the only open receiver was Sproles. Of course, the corner covering Sproles was the veteran Barber who was watching Brees instead of Sproles. If Brees did a pump fake towards the middle first, it may have broke Barber's gaze on Brees, but he didn't.
Brees mistake was just a bad read on the defense. Dumping off to Sproles wasn't a poor decision, nor was it a poor throw as all of that happened over the course of three seconds. The defense had the perfect play called against the play the Saints were planning to run. Sproles didn't move though and knew Barber was coming at full speed. The interception isn't his fault though, but this was more of a good designed play by the defense combined with veteran eyes, mind, and hands.
Marino Watch
Brees Yards: 3004
Marino's record: 5084
Yards to go: 2080
Games left: 7
Passing yards per game needed to tie passing record: 297.14
Brees current yards per game average: 333.78
Weekly "Why Brees is Awesome" Rant
Currently, Brees has 21 touchdowns on the year. That's good for 2nd in the league behind only Aaron Rodgers. Brees also has 3,004 yards which is good for best in the league and makes it Brees 8th straight 3,000+ yard season. Now for the really good, Brees has the 2nd best QB rating in the league with 100.6, 2nd only to Aaron Rodgers. Brees ranks first in the nation in first downs with 154 first downs by pass, which is 20 passes over Tom Brady.
Finally, what I find phenomenal, Brees is currently more accurate than his amazing 2009 season. Brees is currently 269/379 good for 71% completion percentage, 2nd only to....Aaron Rodgers with a 72.5% rate. What's the most amazing thing (it keeps getting amazing) is that Brees has the most attempts per game with 42 attempts per game. The QB statlines for those who have more than 37 attempts per game are below:
(Apologies for the table's skewness)
| Rk | Player | Team | Pos | Comp | Att | Pct | Att/G | Yds | Avg | Yds/G | TD | Int | 1st | 1st% | Lng | 20+ | 40+ | Sck | Rate |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Drew Brees | NO | QB | 269 | 379 | 71.0 | 42.1 | 3,004 | 7.9 | 333.8 | 21 | 11 | 154 | 40.6 | 79T | 33 | 6 | 19 | 100.6 |
| 2 | Tom Brady | NE | QB | 212 | 321 | 66.0 | 40.1 | 2,703 | 8.4 | 337.9 | 20 | 10 | 134 | 41.7 | 99T | 38 | 4 | 16 | 100.0 |
| 3 | Sam Bradford | STL | QB | 127 | 232 | 54.7 | 38.7 | 1,432 | 6.2 | 238.7 | 3 | 3 | 71 | 30.6 | 68 | 15 | 2 | 25 | 72.3 |
| 4 | Joe Flacco | BAL | QB | 169 | 309 | 54.7 | 38.6 | 2,051 | 6.6 | 256.4 | 9 | 6 | 103 | 33.3 | 74T | 26 | 5 | 19 | 76.9 |
| 5 | Colt McCoy | CLE | QB | 177 | 308 | 57.5 | 38.5 | 1,764 | 5.7 | 220.5 | 10 | 6 | 98 | 31.8 | 56 | 13 | 2 | 20 | 76.5 |
| 6 | Josh Freeman | TB | QB | 193 | 307 | 62.9 | 38.4 | 2,004 | 6.5 | 250.5 | 8 | 10 | 95 | 30.9 | 65T | 15 | 4 | 10 | 76.8 |
| 7 | Philip Rivers | SD | QB | 193 | 305 | 63.3 | 38.1 | 2,469 | 8.1 | 308.6 | 11 | 14 | 128 | 42.0 | 55T | 38 | 4 | 19 | 81.4 |
| 8 | Matthew Stafford | DET | QB | 183 | 299 | 61.2 | 37.4 | 2,179 | 7.3 | 272.4 | 19 | 4 | 101 | 33.8 | 73T | 27 | 8 | 16 | 99.1 |
Awesome Dog Pic of the Week:
How about that Curse?
Saints are 2-0 in the throwback uniforms. However, the Saints are also 0-2 when the throwback Saints show up. So I call it a draw.
This FanPost was written by a reader and member of Canal Street Chronicles. It does not necessarily reflect the views of CSC and its staff or editors.
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Blonde lab. She used to be white as snow, but she’s full blonde now.
Bring back Aaron Brooks! He's the only one who can save us from the evil that is Drew Brees!!
Dallas’ misery will always be my delight
-TexansDC
Dumping off to Sproles wasn’t a poor decision, nor was it a poor throw as all of that happened over the course of three seconds.
Of course it was and of course it was. Drew BREEESSS!!! didn’t see Barber. He was under pressure and should have thrown it away.
I'm living in the material world
I'm not a Decliner...
…but I gotta agree. That was all Brees. Fortunately, it didn’t hurt us too badly, as the defense looked good, and it was the only real mistake he made. Apart from him thinking that he’s not in decline.
And will someone catch a damn ball? It's like watching a bunch of retards trying to hump a doorknob out there!
It was definitely a poor throw. Watch it in real time…if Brees actually puts something into the throw the ball will get to Sproles before Barber can get to it. The pass had no zip and as a result Barber was able to react and get his hands on it for the pic.
The poor decision INTs are getting a bit ridiculous at this point. I remember after last year both Brees and Eli said the same thing….that they weren’t 20 INT quarterbacks. Who’d have thought that only one of them was right…and the one would be Eli.
Something else to pay attention to. Brees is last in the league for yards per point of completion. Not yards per attempt…but yards from the line of scrimmage to where the receiver catches the ball. Currently he’s not even at 6 yards per pass completion. Brees is obviously still very good. Top 10 in the league. But unless he figures out a way to make defenses fear the deep to intermediate routes as well as cut the interceptions by half….his days of being considered elite are all but dwindling away.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
unless he figures out a way to make defenses fear the deep to intermediate routes
That’s more on the WRs. The overthrow to Henderson yesterday was ugly, but not typical.
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality. -Albert Einstein
Last week he forced deep throws and got picked off. This week he throws short and we win. I’m not to worried about how deep he throws the ball as much as if it is completed to our guys. Especially when we consider who he is working with…where is the separation downfield?
by BlackandGold4ever on Nov 7, 2011 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
I went back and watched that play 10 times, I still don't see a poor throw.
He surveys the field in seconds 1 and 2, sees that there is perfect coverage and dumps it off at the end of second 2. Barber intercepts the pass at second 3.
As for yards per completion, I’d say that the west coast offense variant the Saints run, combined with the amount of screens and dump off passes to Sproles are the reasons for that. I mean seriously, you get mad at him for making poor decisions, then when he does decide to just dump off a pass instead of risking an interception, you guys berate him for that too!!
Bring back Aaron Brooks! He's the only one who can save us from the evil that is Drew Brees!!
Dallas’ misery will always be my delight
-TexansDC
Darn that Drew BREESSSS!!!! If only we could go back to the good old days of our glorious QB’s…
by BlackandGold4ever on Nov 7, 2011 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
Barber was standing there waiting to jump the route. Drew didn’t see him due to the pressure. Unless you’re calling John Lynch a liar. He said as much right after the pick.
I'm living in the material world
There was no pressure on Brees. There was a 3 man rush and he had a nice pocket for the moment.
As for what Lynch said, “Barber went into a Peel blitz. He had coverage on Sproles but gave a blitz look up until Sproles left the back field.” Which again, makes me think the play call confused Brees. Which you can pin on him, however, you need to give just as much credit to the defense for setting that play up.
Bring back Aaron Brooks! He's the only one who can save us from the evil that is Drew Brees!!
Dallas’ misery will always be my delight
-TexansDC
It was pretty crowded in the pocket. Lynch said Drew didn’t see Barber after the peel blitz comment.
I'm living in the material world
I don’t know about the rest, but Drew definitely didn’t see Barber. Simply misread the coverage. That’s on Brees.
Good post, Jon.
In Breesus' name we play
by Breesus Christ Superstar on Nov 7, 2011 9:14 PM CST up reply actions
Still
Nice that we’re only bitching about one interception resulting in 3 points this week!
And will someone catch a damn ball? It's like watching a bunch of retards trying to hump a doorknob out there!
by Doc Boudin on Nov 7, 2011 2:35 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd!
"As soon as Tony (Dungy) said we had no chance, I knew we had 'em right where we wanted 'em"--Coach Sean Payton right after Super Bowl XLIV with the Lombardi Trophy firmly in hand. WHO DAT!!
by David "Satch" Kelly on Nov 7, 2011 3:27 PM CST up reply actions
I thought fast developing screens were supposed to be an extension of the running game. Funny, but I’ve never seen a rushing attempt get intercepted.
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
So you're saying you like the running game?
Tell us how you really feel.
And you better pick yourself up off the ground
Before they bring the curtain down.
Yes, before they bring the curtain down...
Let’s see … the play-by-play announcer, the video caption and the definition of a screen pass all disagree with you.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d823d3812/WK-9-Can-t-Miss-Play-Barber-snatches-INT
00:54 – Ronde Barber anticipates a Drew Brees screen pass for the 42nd interception of his illustrious career.
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
They’ve never been wrong before. Right?
It was a Swing pass.
There were no Guards out there blocking.
Drew did not back up and let the rushers in before throwing.
And, Sproles came out of the backfield – so you can’t call it a Naked Screen b/c he’t lined up at WR.
The announcers are idiots.
Don’t eat the cheese…. it was a Swing pass.
By definition, a swing pass is run towards the sidelines, it’s primary purpose being to attain a first down and/or get out of bounds to preserve the clock. That was not the case on this play. This was a poorly executed bubble screen. Screens do not require guards to pull and Brees was under pressure.
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
What do you think Sproles was doing? I watched the highlight of play a dozen times… partially to count the number of defenders in the box (7, not 9 Jeff) and see where Barber came from.
For it to be a Bubble Screen SOMEONE would have to be in front of the receiver (this case Sproles) to block… The WR’s who could have done that RAN ROUTES instead.
It was not a screen.
It most certainly WAS a screen. Any pass to the RB in the flat is a screen pass. It doesn’t matter if you have blockers or not. In most cases, a PROPERLY EXECUTED screen pass will have blockers. I never said it was properly executed. In fact, I seriously doubt that it was DESIGNED to be a screen at all, based on the replay. Brees is likely checking down, due to the pressure. You’re saying it was a swing pass. Even if the intent was to race out of bounds just past the sticks, it would still be a screen. Swing passes ARE screen passes. There simply is no need for a wall of blockers, as “upfield” isn’t the MO. The sidelines is the MO.
For it to be a Bubble Screen SOMEONE would have to be in front of the receiver (this case Sproles) to block
Incorrect. A bubble screen is any pass to a receiver outside of the tackle box, even to or beyond the LOS. Sproles may be slightly beyond the LOS, so it may not technically be a bubble. Regardless, it’s still a screen. Blocking assignments don’t even enter the equation, unless that’s the play that was called and I honestly don’t think it was, based on that (your) observation.
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
No, it’s 100% accurate. You’re under the faulty assumption that screens must be designed as such, and/or require proper execution to qualify as such.
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
Read up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_pass
During a screen pass, a number of things happen concurrently in order to fool the defense into thinking a long pass is being thrown.
“A number of things”, not just "any pass to the RB in the flat ".
Offensive action during a screen pass play
- The quarterback drops back as if he is going to pass the ball deep. - (didn’t happen)
- The offensive line sets up in pass protection for usually one to two seconds, then releases and lets the defensive line go. - (didn’t happen)
- The person receiving the screen pass will move behind the releasing linemen and wait for the ball. - (didn’t happen)
- The outside receivers run clear-out routes in order to make a path for the screen coming behind them. - (happened b/c they were running regular routes, not an attempt to “clear-out” CB’s to clear a path)
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You’ll also notice that a “bubble screen” is only to WR’s because of the specific action the receiver takes on that particular type of screen.
First, LOL @ quoting wikipedia.
Second, they’re describing a properly executed screen PLAY. Remind me of the last time a properly executed screen PLAY was intercepted. There is a difference between a screen PLAY and a screen PASS.
Offensive action during a screen pass play
- The quarterback drops back as if he is going to pass the ball deep. – (didn’t happen)
- The offensive line sets up in pass protection for usually one to two seconds, then releases and lets the defensive line go. – (didn’t happen)
- The person receiving the screen pass will move behind the releasing linemen and wait for the ball. – (didn’t happen)
- The outside receivers run clear-out routes in order to make a path for the screen coming behind them. – (happened b/c they were running regular routes, not an attempt to "clear-out" CB’s to clear a path)
Agreed. Which is why I don’t think it was a DESIGNED screen PLAY. I also don’t think it was a DESIGNED screen PASS. It was still a screen PASS, however.
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
“Offensive action during a screen pass play”
If you like, you can describe the differences in a “screen pass” and a “screen play” – completely optional.
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pre-reply to your potential reply:
It can only be a “screen pass” if it is thrown during a “screen play”.
If it is thrown during a “swing play” it would be called a “swing pass”.
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Here’s a video of SP explaining some of our “screen passes”:
…multiple good explanations of screen plays/passes…
A screen PLAY — or rather, a typical, properly executed one — is as the wikipedia article described. I wouldn’t say that encompasses efficiency, as I’ve seen many screen PLAYS run without a deliberate wall of blockers in front of the receiver, though almost always within the realm of subterfuge (misdirection plays).
A screen PASS is any pass thrown to a receiver in the flat. That receiver is typically a RB, but doesn’t necessarily have to be.
A swing PLAY is any screen pass run with the specific intent of reaching the sidelines, typically to preserve clock. If the receiver decides to cut back and turn it upfield at the last second, as Hokie Gajan did against the Bucs many moons ago, I’m not sure what I’d categorize that as. Probably just a screen play. Unless, going out of bounds was the absolute most prudent thing he could have done and he just took it upon himself to stay in bounds and subsequently lost the game because of that boneheaded decision. It’s not too often you see either one of those situations play out.
As such, a swing PASS is basically contingent upon the post-catch actions of the receiver. Again, if they’re up against the clock, the intent of the call is always going to be a bit more evident.
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
First, LOL @ quoting wikipedia.
LOL at this. I’m often guilty of it as well.
Welcome to the party, we're all just papers in the wind
full disclosure
In fact, I already looked it up on wikipedia a few days ago when this discussion was fresh.
Welcome to the party, we're all just papers in the wind
Playing devil’s advocate here. Disregard what transpired on the field. Suppose everything you’re assuming is correct. If the play called in the huddle is a designed screen pass and everyone blows their blocking assignments, what makes it a different play? The pass itself is still a screen pass. No different than when a WR cuts off his route and the QB goes long. It was a go or fly route, not a button hook. Execution and play categorization are not necessarily one in the same.
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
“Suppose everything you’re assuming is correct.”
About what? About what makes a screen pass a screen pass?
If it was a screen pass, then no one did what they were supposed to do.
- Drew didn’t drop back like a deep pass, to allow the lineman to come in.
- The offensive line didn’t fake a pass block then run left to block for the runner.
- If it was a “bubble screen”-like play to the RB, the WR didn’t block like they should have.
- If the lineman were just slow to get out to their blocks, Sproles over ran them. (note: they did not even move in that direction, so this is moot.)
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so what do you call a play when no one does what they were supposed to do?
Do you give a play a name by what happens on the field or by what’s called in the huddle? (That’s just a philosophical question, not directed at any part of your argument.)
If the play called in the huddle is “All Streaks”, but the QB keeps it and runs, what do you call that play? (I guess even in that situation the line did what it was supposed to do – keep the defenders from getting to the QB.)
so, since you covered your bases well… it may have been:
c. running a horrifically executed (in terms of blocking) designed screen.
I seriously doubt it, though.
Do you give a play a name by what happens on the field or by what’s called in the huddle? (That’s just a philosophical question, not directed at any part of your argument.)
With knowledge of the play call, I would call it what was called in the huddle. If successfully improvised, you’re never going to know or even question that. If not (typically on passing plays), then I’d have to give the QB the benefit of the doubt, in most cases. Wherever the pass goes, that’s (approximately) where the receiver should have been. If the QB is under duress (as he was in this case), then all that is out the window. I honestly don’t think it was designed as a screen play, nor do I think the play was designed to involve Sproles at all, at least as the primary read. The pass itself was still a screen pass, though. A pass intended for a RB in the flat. Sounds like exactly what I witnessed. Put it this way. The only way that was not a screen PASS (as opposed to play) is if Brees had intended to throw it out of bounds and he was just that far off target. Or, if he intentionally threw it to Barber, but I won’t even entertain that. He was clearly trying to get it to Sproles in order to prevent a sack. That’s a screen pass.
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
I honestly don’t think it was designed as a screen play, nor do I think the play was designed to involve Sproles at all, at least as the primary read.
We agree. Which is why I still can’t understand why you say:
The pass itself was still a screen pass, though.
If the play is not a screen PLAY, the pass cannot be a screen PASS. It simply can’t be.
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The person who typed up that description called it a “screen pass” (which is where this debate started) because he thought (incorrectly, as we both agree) that the play was a screen play.
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As long as we agree that it was not a screen play, I don’t care what you think it’s called – to be honest.
If the play is not a screen PLAY, the pass cannot be a screen PASS. It simply can’t be.
Of course it can be. The pass wasn’t completed. If a three yard out is the call, Brees spots a blown coverage, goes deep and over throws the receiver, that couldn’t be considered a bomb? Hell, even if there was no receiver and he just inexplicably chucked the ball to an empty area of the field, I’d call that a bomb. It’s the same thing here. The type of pass should be categorized based on the intended target at the time of the QB’s release (if one is discernible) , or the nature of the trajectory (if one is not), not (necessarily) the actual play call at the time of the snap, nor the execution (or lack thereof) of everyone else involved. I don’t think it was a designed swing play either, as there was no reason to be working the sidelines at that juncture of the game. That said, I’m not arguing that it absolutely, positively cannot be called a swing pass, because X, Y and Z didn’t occur. Maybe the linemen abandoned their pulling assignments in order to pick up the blitz. If they do that successfully, then Brees has time to look down field. The heat was on him too quickly to completely rule out any PLAY call. The type of PASS is fairly obvious, however. It was intended for Sproles in the flat. Hence, swing, dump off, screen … any of that is an acceptable descriptor of the pass itself, imo.
The person who typed up that description called it a "screen pass" (which is where this debate started) because he thought (incorrectly, as we both agree) that the play was a screen play.
How the hell do you know what he/she thought? Call me crazy, but I would guess he/she typed “screen pass” because it WAS a “screen PASS”!
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
“How the hell do you know what he/she thought? "
I don’t need to know what they thought. I just know that the title they called the pass was incorrect.
“It was intended for Sproles in the flat. Hence, swing, dump off, screen … any of that is an acceptable descriptor of the pass itself, imo.”
That’s the problem… “Screen” is a type of play… they have a specific “dance” that must be conducted in order to be that kind of play.
“Screen Pass: A short forward pass either to the right or left to a running back in front of whom a wall of blockers has formed.”
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There is no “swing” play… so that is a valid name for the pass that occurred.
“Swing pass” is probably the most technically correct name,
From many “football dictionary” sites:
“Swing pass: A short pass to a back running to the outside.”
Also…
There is also no “dump off” play… so, “dump off” is an acceptable name for that pass. It fairly description of what happened on that play… Drew (probably) couldn’t hit his primary receiver, so he had to “dump” it “off” to hit check down.
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Screens are plays. The only time you can call it a “screen pass” is when it is used during a screen play. PERIOD. END OF STORY.
Swing is a type of pass… This is the term you are looking for. It covers all passes to a RB on the outside.
Dump off is also a type of pass, but it implies that the primary receiver is not a good option or the defense has broken through the line and the receiver that was ultimately thrown to was not the first choice.
"Screen Pass: A short forward pass either to the right or left to a running back in front of whom a wall of blockers has formed."
As already stated, that definition is not accurate. It’s the definition of a SUCCESSIVELY EXECUTED screen PLAY.
Screens are plays. The only time you can call it a "screen pass" is when it is used during a screen play. PERIOD. END OF STORY.
Also incorrect. You can call any pass to the flat a screen pass. The common definition of a Hail Mary PLAY is PLAY in which the QB heaves a long pass up for grabs on 4th down or as time expires, in hopes that one of his receivers comes down with it. That doesn’t mean a cluster of receivers, a 4th down, the end of the half etc., is a prerequisite in order to call a particular PASS a Hail Mary. If Brees had felt the same pressure and ignorantly heaved the ball into triple coverage downfield, that could easily be categorized as a Hail Mary PASS. The PASS itself is thrown in the same manner and with the same intent as it would be on the defined PLAY that shares its name. No difference with a screen PASS. You absolutely, positively don’t need a wall of blockers to make that designation. You don’t even need one on a successful screen PLAY, as I’ve already pointed out. If ten players roll to one side of the field and the QB throws back to an uncovered RB all alone on the opposite side, that most certainly is an example of a screen PLAY/PASS.
Swing is a type of pass… This is the term you are looking for. It covers all passes to a RB on the outside.
Agreed. And a PROPERLY EXECUTED swing play/pass is geared to go out of bounds, once completed. In regards to the INTERCEPTED pass, what makes that any different than a screen pass? What ACTUALLY TRANSPIRED doesn’t fit the criteria of either (properly executed) PLAY definition. As such, why aren’t you ruling out the use of the term “swing PASS” as well? Because that’s what it most closely resembles, in terms of a player positioning at the time of the release? Sorry, but that’s how you define the PLAY, not the PASS. See Mary, Hail.
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
What do you think Sproles was doing?
In order of likelihood:
a. running a check down route, for a pass designed to go to someone else downfield.
b. running a designed swing pass.
c. running a horrifically executed (in terms of blocking) designed screen.
Sproles is a RB. As such, all three of the above qualify as screen passes. No matter what, the pressure forced the rushed pass, and the coverage rendered it an unwise decision on Brees’s part. He should have either taken the sack or thrown the ball over Sproles’s head.
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
For it to be a Bubble Screen SOMEONE would have to be in front of the receiver (this case Sproles) to block
So, if Frank Wycheck’s pass to Kevin Dyson (Music City Miracle) had occurred on a offensive play from scrimmage, you wouldn’t consider that a bubble screen? Granted, there would never be that much misdirection, but what if there was? It’s still a screen pass, with or without the blockers in front. On the first of Randy Moss’s two TDs in the 2001 Saints-Vikings playoff game, he was the only WR lined up to that side of the field. On the second, that wasn’t the case. No blockers. One blocker. Both were bubble screens.
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
Actually, if it happened on an offensive play from scrimmage, is the definition of a bubble screen.
The WR is already near the outside, turns back to the QB (Wyckeck in this hypothetical case), and moves (slightly) toward the “QB” to receive the ball.
Note that there was a blocker over by Dyson, but Dyson outran him. :-)
I didn’t realize there was a blocker that close. The question was posed under the pretense that there was no one else to that side of the field at all — let’s say past the hashes. In such a case (on an offensive play from scrimmage), I still think that has to be considered a bubble screen. Blocker or no blocker. Getting back to Moss’s two TD performance in January ‘01, I’ve never heard anyone differentiate between the two, in terms of one being a bubble screen and the other being a _____________ (insert whatever you’d categorize the same play without a blocker as here).
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
Jesus H. Tapdancing Christ @ the BS “run better” argument. They have a lower percentage of rushing attempts of less than four yards than they did in 2009, when they ran the ball 46.2% of the time. Even if you just include the seven games in which they’ve passed excessively (60%+), that’s the case. We’ve already covered this. That angle has already been blown out of the water. Find a new alibi. Until disproven, I’m sticking with the lack of intestinal fortitude of the pr*** on crutches to stick with that proven formula early on in games. Though in fairness, he seems to be doing a better job of that, as of late. Not coincidentally in winning efforts.
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
lack of intestinal fortitude of the pr*** on crutches to stick with that proven formula early on in games.
Agreed. I was thinking this the other day while reading Hans’ Hot Reads. I think this should be one of them: (Payton does not abandon the run)
I also think Payton gets a big charge out of seeing Drew Brees win the game (passing not running). If he can’t BE the quarterback hero, at least he can direct the quarterback hero. A win without big pass plays would be an emotional letdown for him.
Welcome to the party, we're all just papers in the wind
I think they need to pass BETTER…. and then, sure, pass more.
The same exact half-baked argument could be made either way. I don’t see them passing less often with any given regularity BECAUSE of those struggles through the air. A balanced attack behooves both aspects of the game, REGARDLESS of the success you’re having in either. You’re simply not going to get better at something you avoid. In doing so, not only are you putting yourself behind the eight ball in the game at hand, you’re telegraphing the blueprint to other teams on how to beat you in the future.
I’d love to hear your explanation as to how “better” has proven to be the catalyst to “more” in the last two victories, and not vice versa. Especially when they HAVEN’T run any better on a per attempt basis.
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
first… pass more??? I don’t even want them to pass more.
second… pass better??? better than 70% completion. You’ve got some high expectations. I like it. I think Drew has missed a few, too.
He could be 80%, if he tried a little harder.
first… pass more??? I don’t even want them to pass more.
Even if their passing just so happened to show signs of improvement? Why not? In saying you wouldn’t want them to adjust their play calling accordingly based on that success, you’re belying your ideology, as it pertains to the running game.
Btw, what happens if both the running AND the passing game improves? Are they to increase the frequency they employ both? Good luck pushing that combined percentage above 100%.
second… pass better??? better than 70% completion.
No, more like pass better than a 2.9 INT% rate. You know, like he’s done in every season leading up to last year, including lows of 2.0 (2006) and 2.1 (2009), the two years they managed to win the division. Which just so happened to be the two years they passed least often, but let’s sweep that under the rug, as well. Also, pass PROTECT better than a 4.8 SACK% rate, the highest (by far) since Brees has been a Saint.
Even if running more often doesn’t DECREASE those two percentages — despite the common belief among ~30 other NFL coaches that it does (by virtue of unpredictability) — at least they’d be rendered less detrimental in maintaining scoring drives. Last time I checked, interceptions and sacks were ranked among the top three leaders in drive killers (penalties being the third) and both are indigenous of passing.
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
“I’d love to hear your explanation as to how "better" has proven to be the catalyst to "more" in the last two victories, and not vice versa.”
I’ve actually already said why in another thread…
Here are the basics…
The game was more effective EARLY, which gave the coaches confidence in the blocking and the runners to continue to call run plays.
They did NOT get more effective as the game went on. We continued to run it well, yes.
But, you are implying that (like others do as well) that by calling s****y run plays early, opens up the run game for later.
That is utterly [intelligence descriptor removed]!!
a. That’s not what happened in the last game.
That’s not was usually happens in regular football either.PS. You mentioned “last two victories”… One of those is the Colts game.
We were 60/40 Pass Run at the half… they game was over by then. The run was effective early. And it’s a great tool to waste time and reduce turnovers at he end of a game when you have a lead (esp. a huge lead b/c then you don’t mind punting a couple of times)… if it’s effective.
The game was more effective EARLY, which gave the coaches confidence in the blocking and the runners to continue to call run plays.
False. Chart the 1st quarter of all 9 games this year and point out the correlation between ypc and wins. There is none. Ypc not good enough for you? Try carries percentage of carries 4 yards or more. There is none. Why? Because they’ve been running just as effectively early on throughout. I’ve already covered this.
But, you are implying that (like others do as well) that by calling s****y run plays early, opens up the run game for later.
No more so than you’re implying that calling s***y pass plays early compensates for a lack of a balanced offense.
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
We were 60/40 Pass Run at the half… they game was over by then. The run was effective early.
58/42. And you’re right, it was effective early. It’s been effective early in all but the first Tampa game this year. They simply ran it more often in the first half versus the Colts. The subsequent lead that resulted led to even more rushing in the second half. No one’s arguing that it doesn’t behoove us, if effective. The argument is that it’s less likely to lead to a victory, if not utilized enough, in that it its absence causes the passing game to become less effective. All you’re doing here is supporting that argument. In what other game were we in a position to work the clock throughout the second half? None. In what game was passing in the first half less prevalent? None. In what game was the running game considerably less effective per attempt in the first half? None, aside from maybe the first Bucs game. In what game was the passing game considerably less effective per attempt in the first half? Every single one of them, including the first Bucs game. What’s the common thread here, doctor, if not frequency in utilization?
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
The run has also been more effective on a game-by-game basis than it was in 2009, as pointed out numerous times. Funny how Payton doesn’t seem to subscribe to EITHER that proven success, OR your ideology that better = employ more often. It’s been just the opposite for the majority of this season, hence the questioning in play calling.
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
wait wait wait...
“I don’t see them passing less often with any given regularity BECAUSE of those struggles through the air.”
You’re saying they pass so much BECAUSE they’re struggling with it. And they will continue to throw this much BECAUSE they are struggling with it.
LMAO!
So they (SP/PC/coaches) are a bunch of idiots?
They know they have “struggles” in the pass and they choose to “struggle” more?
That’s funny.
don't you know, pizza could have won us 3 SBs already?
all it takes is calling equal number of runs & passes.. it’s easy.. any team could be winning EVERY game.. imagine dat..
aah.. wait.. that couldn’t work..
conundrum..?
by the 9th plague on Nov 12, 2011 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
Ah, yes. Because behooving a team’s chances of winning is the same as guaranteeing victory. I suppose we shouldn’t avoid throwing into triple coverage, as well. You know, since all 31 other teams do and only one of them manages to win a championship each year because of it.
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
I think even in today’s game, you still have to run in order to set up the pass. You have to keep them honest with the threat of PT or TUSK!!! rolling downfield for a long gain.
Welcome to the party, we're all just papers in the wind
I agree.
But, as I’ve said a dozen or so times, if they can stop our run with 7 men in the box for minimal to no gain (ie. ineffective run game), it will not help the pass.
If, however, we’re running for 4 and 5 yards on first down… running for 5 yards on 3rd and 3… breaking off the occasional 8-10 yard run…
THEN, they will have to be “honest” and move guys into the box to defend against it.
THEN the play action will work like gangbusters.
The whole offense will functions better because of an effective run game.
and..
we did exactly this last week.
The o-line played great.
The play calling was very good.
The execution as a whole was very good.
The run game was working early, and thus the coaches stuck with it.
I was pleasantly surprised.
"prick on crutches.."?
lawd.. take me now..
the audacity..
i thought it would have stopped at “x-box play-calling”
by the 9th plague on Nov 12, 2011 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
if they can stop our run with 7 men in the box
Why can’t the Saints use Sproles to the corners?
Welcome to the party, we're all just papers in the wind
EXCELLENT IDEA!!
I wish SP would have thought of that in Green Bay. We would have won!
^ That’s no sarcasm.
really.. what an idiot.. maybe one day..
he’ll get the memo & win something.. even a SB.. who knows..?
wait..
by the 9th plague on Nov 12, 2011 6:01 PM CST up reply actions
if they can stop our run with 7 men in the box for minimal to no gain (ie. ineffective run game), it will not help the pass.
Which hasn’t happened in the first half of ANY game this year, much less the SEVEN in which they’ve passed in excess of 60% of the time. In short, even if your logic wasn’t faulty, it STILL doesn’t apply.
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
wait wait wait...
I don’t see them
You’re saying that those four words weren’t typed?
I didn’t say a damn thing about why they pass MORE. I said they DON’T PASS LESS OFTEN despite their struggles.
If I said Sally NEVER plays outside BECAUSE there’s a pedophile that lives in her neighborhood. Does that mean Sally would ALWAYS play outside, if there WASN’T a pedophile that lives in her neighborhood? One would think she’d have to go to school, do homework, eat dinner, bathe, sleep, etc.
So they (SP/PC/coaches) are a bunch of idiots?
Yes. Just not as idiotic as people who assume the inverse of every assertion applies.
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
Very misleading stat
Am I the only one to notice that the Saints throw a lot of screens? Like, more than any other team that I’ve noticed? How does that factor into this stat? A -2 or -3 yard completion on a play that goes for 15 because Drew, the RB and Oline sold it so well? You can’t put that as a negative for Drew Brees when on a screen play he only has one option to throw it to.
"I want to hand this trophy to the MVP of the Super Bowl -- and the MVP of the entire league.''
-- Saints coach Sean Payton, handing the Vince Lombardi Trophy to Drew Brees after Super Bowl 44.
Cause the Saints are the only team to utilize the screen?
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
Nobody ever said that
But it seems to me, in my completely unscientific personal observations, that the Saints use it more than other teams.
"I want to hand this trophy to the MVP of the Super Bowl -- and the MVP of the entire league.''
-- Saints coach Sean Payton, handing the Vince Lombardi Trophy to Drew Brees after Super Bowl 44.
I think we take him for granted WAYYYY too much.
We are pretty fortunate to have a QB as consistent as Brees. He does throw a few to many interceptions, but he also makes a ton of plays that not many other QBs could. Imagine your starting QB is John Beck and I think you’ll appreciate him a little more
I appreciate him more than you know. I simply don’t put him on a holy pedestal. He’s hands down that best QB ever to come within spitting distance of New Orleans. He’s one of the top 3 or 4 players in the history of the organization regardless of position, but that doesn’t mean he’s beyond criticism when his play becomes below acceptable levels for being considered still “elite”.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
by jeff.l.b on Nov 8, 2011 9:53 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree he is not beyond criticism.
I just think sometimes we become so accustomed to excellent play that when something goes bad we act like the sky is falling down. I agree 100% about the pass meant for Sproles being a poor throw/decision; as soon as it was picked I myself was angry about the predictable throw. I just choose to try and remember the good plays as well, such as the beautiful fade pass too Lance Moore. Elite QB’s are elite because they make more good plays than bad plays, not because they make no bad plays.
So, anybody notice that Brees's stats are better than Tom Brady's
Have you heard any Pats fans saying Brady is a QB in decline? I sure haven’t. And do you know why? Because it is not a topic worth anyone’s time when someone goes from being better than anyone else on the field, to being better than only 99% of the people on the field. So yes, I’m sure that technically, you are correct that Brees may be in some small decline. And as any beaurocrat will tell you, being technically correct is the best kind of correct. But until it hits a point that it actually matters, can we drop it and focus on something that actually impacts the game?
"I want to hand this trophy to the MVP of the Super Bowl -- and the MVP of the entire league.''
-- Saints coach Sean Payton, handing the Vince Lombardi Trophy to Drew Brees after Super Bowl 44.
by VAsaintsfan on Nov 7, 2011 2:44 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd for the Pierre Thomas love
I still think he’ll lead the team in rushing yards and rushing TDs this year. If I’m wrong, Stu will make sure we all know it. I’m already wrong about Drew throwing less than 10 INTs this year. Gonna miss that one by a country mile. :)
Pierre has always been a great tackle breaker. He was doing that in 2009. I still remember that awesome catch and run in the Super Bowl where he got lit up at the line of scrimmage so much that he was facing in the wrong direction. He not only didn’t go down, but turned back around and picked up 8 yards to keep the drive alive. Thing. Of. Beauty.
"As soon as Tony (Dungy) said we had no chance, I knew we had 'em right where we wanted 'em"--Coach Sean Payton right after Super Bowl XLIV with the Lombardi Trophy firmly in hand. WHO DAT!!
by David "Satch" Kelly on Nov 7, 2011 3:33 PM CST reply actions
A Rec you shall get
28 other NFL teams would love to have Drew Brees as their quarterback with the exception of the Patriots, Packers, Lions, and Giants. And the Giants’ love for Eli is on a week to week basis….so they would probably take him, too.
When all your wishes are granted....All you dreams will be destroyed.
27 other teams
Yeah, my math sux
When all your wishes are granted....All you dreams will be destroyed.
by AcquiredPanic on Nov 7, 2011 3:46 PM CST up reply actions
I think you could probably add the Steelers and Texans to that list
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality. -Albert Einstein
I actually was gonna include them but I have a hard time thinking of Big Ben as an elite quarterback despite the championships. And Matt Schuab looks like a different quarterback without Andre Johnson to throw to.
Without the threat of death......There is no reason to live at all
by AcquiredPanic on Nov 7, 2011 8:00 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not saying either of them is better than Drew, or even elite for that matter.
But if I was a fan of one of those teams, I’d probably not want to trade. Especially the Steelers – the way that team is built, Ben is really a better option for them.
In the five games AJ has missed, Schaub has thrown for 1276 yards, 6 TDs and 3 INTs. But in any case, if I were Texans fan, I’d probably want Schaub over Brees just for the sake of age. They are a fairly young team with a big window of opportunity, especially with the decline of Colts.
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality. -Albert Einstein
I have to agree with you
Since you put it like that. So add them to the list.
Without the threat of death......There is no reason to live at all
by AcquiredPanic on Nov 8, 2011 1:11 AM CST up reply actions
let me see if i understand the gripe, here..
“he is kinda good, but not elite enough to be in my team.. we want absolute eliteness. not just half-ass elite.. dat don’t cut it for me.. i’m just too elite myself to be seen rooting for this poor-man’s joe montegna or whatever..”
sometimes.. i wonder, if you elitists actually deserve this m-a-n with balls of steel as the QB of your team..
i don’t really care where he fits in your overall ranking of eliteness.. he’s pretty good as is.. not perfect.. never will be.. but he’s always striving to overcome his limitations..
Let me see if I understand the hyperbole.
His QB skills are beginning to deteriorate, at least to the point that they shouldn’t be depended on exclusively. Something that was never accomplished with success even in his prime to begin with.
somehow equates to …
he is kinda good, but not elite enough to be in my team.. we want absolute eliteness. not just half-ass elite.. dat don’t cut it for me
Let’s also give credit where credit’s due:
but he’s always striving to overcome his limitations..
In short, he’s a professional football player. Way to shed light on the subject.
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
the hyperbole is directed in the general direction of those..
who are convinced that he is becoming more of a liability than an asset..
i heard brian billick been asked today.. what is an elite QB..?
he responded: a guy that when the game is on the line he can put the team on his shoulders & deliver..
i believe my QB fits that description..
i’m ignoring the wise-ass remark after your second quote-box.. but for what is worth.. i was pointing out his dedication to right a wrong.. more driven than ever..
i’ll have to say that was a mysterious rebuttal: “he’s a pro football player”..
by the 9th plague on Nov 8, 2011 9:42 PM CST up reply actions
um, no
Apparently you are missing the point entirely. Let me clarify. While recognizing that Brees is one of the top five QBs in the league, it is also possible to recognize that he is not quite as good now as he was two years ago. He makes a few more bad throws and decisions. No one is suggesting that PayLoo should “cut that chump”.
The point of acknowledging Drew’s ever so slightly increasing limitations is that it is becoming more apparent each week that he cannot carry the team by himself, as he did, for instance, in the 2009 game against the Dolphins.
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality. -Albert Einstein
Don’t bother buddy. Apparently we’re not allowed to point out legitimate truths without being automatically branded Drew Haters. Not a single one of us has ever said we’d take another QB over Drew or that we still don’t love Drew. But trying to merely point out that he’s slipped in the last couple of years is heresy in the eyes of too many.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
Compare Brees’s 11th season (2011) statistics through 9 games to that of Dan Marino’s 12th season (1994) statistics through 9 games. They’re actually quite similar. In making that comparison, no one is saying the Dolphins should have kicked Marino to the curb six seasons prior to his retirement. At the same time, no one outside of the starry-eyed optimist is viewing a projected 10-6 finish and 4.5M passing yards as a career peak. Marino never passed more than 550 times in a season beyond that point. Depite passing less often, his completion percentage slowly declined, as well. They also never won 10 games again with Marino at the helm, primarily because they only had Bernie Parmalee and Lew Alcindor some Muslim dude to fall back on, in terms of a contributing running game. The Saints are better off in that department, or at least appear to be. That should make the transition from current Drew Brees to dead-in-the-water Drew Brees run a little smoother. In other words, we can milk his post-prime career with offensive balance. That said, there’s no reason it can’t be recognized for what it is. It’s not a slap in the face. It’s reality. Father Time. No more, no less.
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
Father Time. No more, no less.
I say “no more”, yet continue to blame a lot of Drew’s struggles on the play calling. I think it’s a combination of both. Until we’re no longer as pedal to the metal passing, it’s impossible to put a finger on which is the bigger contributor. Since we can’t reverse the aging process, there’s only one way to arrive at that fulcrum and that’s to run a more balanced attack. As in THIS SEASON, before we’re mortgaging the next half a decade over a player that may not be any better a game manager than _____________ (insert best UFA and/or 2nd-3rd round pick here). Granted, it’s a very small window for evaluation purposes, but if the team is winning more consistently in that mode anyway (and they most obviously are), then why not take that approach? It sure as hell can’t hurt.
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
Been saying that for months and getting aged tomatoes thrown at me. Happy belated B-day.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
Drew's vision was obstructed, I think he knew Ronde was in the area
he tried to beat him to the spot, late throws to the sideline or flat can be disasterous, just throw it away.
You think you know, and you don't know, and you never, ever, will.-Jim Mora Sr.
I understand ....nothing.-Michael Scott
The Future is Unwritten.-Joe Strummer
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."-Mahatma Gandhi
If Drew played Madden...
He’d know never throw to the flat on a Swing route when the defense is in a base Cover 2.
:-)
by Dan Kelly on Nov 7, 2011 8:02 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
With 9 men in the box faking blitz it’s not a base Cover 2. That and Tampa plays a Tampa 2.
Double :-) :-)
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
“Tampa 2” is base cover 2 as far as the two corners are concerned. :-)
The difference in Tampa 2 is the MLB usully stays deep or gets deeper to cover the middle, and the safeties spread out… almost like a Cover 3.
I’m well aware of the difference between the Tampa2 and a base cover 2. Yes…the corners are the same obviously. But considering the difference…that’s why it’s not a “Base” cover 2. And I still reiterate that they weren’t in a cover 2 in that scenario. You don’t show a 9 man blitz on a base anything.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
PS. If they really were showing a 9 man blitz, then it was an even worse decision b/c he’d be throwing directly at one of the blitzers.
Not really….calling a screen play on an all out blitz like that is generally a good move, it gets the defenders up the field to lob the pass to the back after the rush has moved beyond him. Because they didn’t blitz…that’s what made it so bad. They went from showing a 9 man front to dropping 8 into coverage with a 3 man rush and cut off every single hot read Drew had.
We say he should have thrown it away…which is probably true. But if it’s true that Brees did not see Barber…then Sproles looks wide open for a decent size gain. If he doesn’t see him…i can’t blame him for making the throw.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
It wasn’t a screen (despite what the play-by-play said)…
And during that blitz, you’re right, you want to call an actual screen or you want to throw quickly (quicker than he did) and usually to a slot receiver running a slant in.
That play and Darren’s route had none of that.
-
I chalk it up to good defense, more than bad decision making on drew part.
^^^^ This
I chalk it up to good defense, more than bad decision making on drew part.
R.I.P. Andy Rooney
by cajuncommando58 on Nov 9, 2011 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
baited the throw.. by dropping 1st.. & then jumping the route..
i’d say that is a great savvy move by a 12(?) year veteran..
also.. this is not a screen.. not a bubble screen or any kind.. the bunch receivers clear deep.. & there is no lineman or any other players looking to get in front..
http://www.nfl.com/videos/tampa-bay-buccaneers/09000d5d823d591b/Buccaneers-defense-INT
by the 9th plague on Nov 9, 2011 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
It wasn’t a screen (despite what the play-by-play said)…
I’m going with the guy who narrates the game for a living.
I chalk it up to good defense, more than bad decision making on drew part.
Shocker.
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
This 100%.
It was just a really good play by the defensive coordinator.
Bring back Aaron Brooks! He's the only one who can save us from the evil that is Drew Brees!!
Dallas’ misery will always be my delight
-TexansDC
Jon, remember when you said you’re starting to hate losses, not just because we lost, but because I get to point out how you were wrong? Well, we won this week ….. and you’re still wrong. :)
You can toga party, but you can't toga fish.
I'll admit, offensive balance on drives is good.
I won’t deny that. I still don’t care about end game numbers so long as there was balance during the time the Saints have the ball (outside the 2 minute warning). However, I also refuse to say that running for the sake of running is still fool hardy, so long as the run isn’t abandoned completely.
Also, congrats on the smiley! I didn’t know you had it in you.
Bring back Aaron Brooks! He's the only one who can save us from the evil that is Drew Brees!!
Dallas’ misery will always be my delight
-TexansDC
look at the two of you...
warms my heart.
by snowboard_kat on Nov 8, 2011 2:58 AM CST up reply actions
I just want to point out that this thread featured heated debate between fiery members
and there was no hardly any name calling or personal attacks
but it’s a shame that poor, hobbled, lumbering, slow, temporarily crippled Sean Payton was thrown under the bus with the “p****” on crutches" moniker
It CAN be done, people.
WIN NOW
WINGRAMANIA!!!!
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