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Preston's Lions @ Saints Preview: Damaged Pride

Who wants more of dat?

Glancing back at the 2011 NFL Draft, a majority of fans and analysts alike felt that the Detroit Lions were the clear winners. Nick Fairley fell to them at the thirteenth slot in the first round, to be paired alongside Ndamukong Suh, giving them arguably the best young defensive tackle duo in the NFL. And that's not counting Corey Williams, who's coincidentally having his best season thus far, according to Jim Schwartz.

In the second round, they grabbed Titus Young to complement Calvin Johnson, Nate Burleson, and their tight ends. Then they traded back into round two to solve their running back problems with highly-regarded Mikel Leshoure, giving them that complete back to take the majority of the load while they sprinkle in Jahvid Best in the same fashion the Saints use Darren Sproles.

Star-divide

Detroit followed up the draft by adding quality veterans to their defense in free agency when the lockout ended, addressing the linebacker position with the likes of Stephen Tulloch (whom I really wished the Saints had made a play for), Justin Durant, and Bobby Carpenter (who has rejuvenated his career). In a secondary under construction, Eric Wright was added at cornerback to go along with the previous year's acquisitions of Alphonso Smith and Chris Houston. The biggest question mark remaining was two-fold: can the offensive line protect the quarterback and can Matthew Stafford stay healthy? The Lions looked to be well on their way to becoming a Super Bowl contender in Schwartz's third year.

Before the season began, their great off-season took a bad turn on the injury front. They lost Leshoure for the year with a torn achilles, which was a huge blow because they had not tendered a contract to injury-prone former rising star RB Kevin Smith in the spring and Best had concussion issues going back to his playing days in Cal (which caused many teams to remove him from their draft board). Fairley suffered a foot injury that would keep him out of training camp and cause him to miss the first month of the regular season, which is critical because the rookies needed as much camp as possible to learn in this abbreviated offseason. Young then sustained a hamstring injury which negated his chances of getting up to speed learning the offense, coverages, and building rapport with Stafford.

Despite these injury woes that dampened the excitement and hope of Lions fans, Detroit got off to a blazing start, putting up near 40 points a game to go 5-0, looking like a lock for the post-season. Yet even at that start, cracks began to show. While that great trio of defensive tackles along with a solid trio of defensive ends - Kyle Vanden Bosch (6 sacks), Cliff Avril (7 sacks), and Lawrence Jackson (4.5 sacks) - looked to be the best defensive line in the NFL, Detroit's secondary hadn't played consistently with the benefit of great pressure. In addition, their offensive line, specifically right tackle, became an exploitable weakness that had Lions fans cursing while holding their breath - now that's a trick! The running game wasn't dependable, and the Lions had to overcome a couple of three-score deficits.

Nearly three quarters of the way through the season, it looks like this damaged pride of lions may miss the post-season. Matthew Stafford is still recovering from a fractured index finger on his throwing hand. This is very significant because that is the last finger to leave the football when a quarterback snaps his wrist while completing his throwing motion. Stafford claims it hasn't affected his touch or accuracy, but he's thrown 9 interceptions since the injury occurred (three games ago), so you can be the judge of that.

In addition to Leshoure being lost for the season, Jahvid Best was recently placed on injured reserve for concussions. Teams realize they don't have to respect Detroit's rushing attack, and they really don't have to send much pressure on Stafford. Detroit has to throw and Stafford's accuracy is in question. A decent front four can get pressure without the aid of a blitz against the leaky Lions offensive line while the coverage waits on a bad throw.

Taking a look at the Saints defense, while keeping in mind Gregg William's affinity for the blitz (he's sent the blitz more than anyone else this year), where are the Saints vulnerable? The best thing Detroit can do with their passing attack is to continue utilizing their two-TE set with Brandon Pettigrew and Tony Scheffler (who they've been playing at full back), in addition to Maurice Morris as a target out of the backfield, which was pretty much their 2010 strategy.

If the Lions can exploit a blitz or two with a quick pass, they'll likely get a big gain from the slot WR or a TE in the seam. Those TEs will get a favorable matchup with a linebacker or Roman Harper. When Pettigrew and Scheffler become an issue, it will be easier to hit a single-covered Burleson or Young because you know all the attention will be on Calvin Johnson. Kevin Smith is dealing with a high ankle sprain, and the combo of Keiland Williams and Morris may have surprising success IF Detroit can complete the short, high-percentage passes on schedule.

On offense, the Saints offensive line needs to play exactly as they did on Monday night. Even without Suh, Avril, Vanden Bosch, Jackson, Williams, and Fairley can still bring pressure of their own accord. Tulloch has had success with his blitzing, and Houston has taken a couple of interceptions back for TDs. The most telling statistic about Detroit's defense is their third down percentage-they've only allowed 28% to be converted. Well, that's about to change.

While Jim Schwartz is known for having a top defensive mind, Mike McCarthy gave the Saints a nice blueprint for exploitation of Detroit with the passing attack. John Harbaugh showed everyone how to beat the Lions with the rushing attack and a good TE. The Saints have the ability and personnel to use the best of both plans. I worry less about the Saints offensive line when they play a great defensive line because frankly, they play to the competition.

The pride of Detroit may be damaged, as well as the Lions' pride, but they are still a dangerous team. They've had a long week to simmer over an embarrassing Thanksgiving loss to Green Bay and build a game plan against the Saints who will be playing on a short turnaround after a Monday night blowout of the Giants. That scares me for two reasons - the last time the Saints had a large margin victory, they laid an egg against the Rams, and the Lions have had four more days to heal and prepare than the Saints did.

The above factors all favor Detroit, but the Saints have perhaps the biggest advantages: Drew Brees, a healthy roster, the threat of balance with a viable rushing attack, a coach and team who act and play more disciplined, and the best Dome-field advantage in the NFL.

While the Lions offer matchup problems with the towering and speedy Calvin Johnson against our 6-foot and under cornerbacks, their tight ends being defended by the Saints linebackers and Harper, and a defensive line playing good football, the Saints can counter with a healthy stable of able running backs, a good-n-nasty guard duo, a quick and accurate release from Drew, a freaky good tight end who plays with swag, and a defensive coordinator who popped Stafford's cherry. Detroit was surprisingly competitive in that 2009 opener and I believe just as the 2011 Giants game would follow an eerily reminiscent script as the 2009 contest, the 2011 matchup with Detroit will also resemble the 2009 game with Detroit.

Last week I wrote this concerning the Giants:

I do not believe Eli and his passing offense can keep pace with Drew Brees. The combination of the Giants pass rush and the Saints pass defense will keep this game close until the Saints figure out the Giants blocking scheme, at which point the Giants will fall behind. How quickly this occurs depends solely on how soon New Orleans can win the battle at the point of attack on both sides of the ball. I believe the Saints will win by a double digit margin, 38 to 24.

I think this game will follow the same script. The Lions may get pressure, but their secondary can be had, especially their erratic safeties, and that's not counting the possible absence of Chris Houston who missed practice today with a knee problem. I think the Lions can keep pace early by limiting Drew and beating a couple of Gregg Williams blitzes - much the same way they (and the Giants) kept last week's games close for most of the first half. Yet I believe Drew and his quick release, along with the Saints ability to run will nullify any pass rush. By the third quarter the Saints should be ahead by multiple scores, and the Lions body language may resemble the Giants' on Monday night. It may happen quicker if Stafford's finger causes a few first half interceptions.

Bottom line: the Saints come into the game balanced and harder to defend, while the Lions are as one-dimensional as the Giants. Stafford won't be able to keep pace with Brees, though the Lions will be able to move the ball and score - just not as often as New Orleans. A healthy Stafford will look as well as Eli did with his 21 consecutive completions. A banged-up Stafford will resemble the rookie Stafford in 2009's contest with multiple interceptions while still moving the ball against the Saints back seven.

Detroit needs this win far more than the Saints, and they'll be playing with a lot of pride on the line. They will be fighting hard, but without a viable rushing threat, they won't land many body blows. I'll take the Saints ability to convert on third and short (or long) over the Lions. I'll take the Saints to continue their winning streak as they get hot at the perfect time. I'll take the Saints to play like a contender rising to the occasion, despite the scheduling disadvantage. I'll take the same score as the Giants prediction, Saints 38, Lions 24.

Stat Time

Offense

1. Saints - 32.9 Points per game, 450 yards per game, 6.5 yards per play, 54% 3rd down conversion rate, 31:44 Time of Possession, -3 turnover margin

9. Lions - 28.7 ppg, 378 ypg, 5.7 ypp, 31% conversion on 3rd down, 29:44 TOP, +6 turnovers

Passing Offense

1. Saints - 324 ypg, 8.0 yards per attempt, 70.3% completion, 27 TDs, 11 INTs, (46) 20+ yard pass completions, 19 sacks allowed, 103.7 QB rating

6. Lions - 272 ypg, 7.1 ypa, 62.3% completion, 26 TDs, 13 INTs, (34) 20+ yard pass completions, 21 sacks given up, 90.8 QB rating

Rushing Offense

8. Saints - 126 ypg, 4.8 yards per carry, 12 TDs, 2 Fumbles, (10) 20+ yard runs

22. Lions - 104 ypg, 4.5 ypc, 7 TDs, 6 Fumbles, (7) 20+ yard runs

Defense

10. Lions - 22.4 ppg, 330 ypg, 5.1 ypp, 28% 3rd down conversions allowed, 18 forced fumbles, 8 fumble recoveries

25. Saints - 22.9 ppg, 371 ypg, 5.8 ypp, 36% 3rd downs allowed, 18 forced fumbles, 5 fumble recoveries

Pass Defense

6. Lions - 202 ypg, 6.2 ypa, 61% completion, 12 TDs, 15 INTs, (28) 20+ yard completions allowed, 29 sacks recorded, 73.1 opposing QB rating

27. Saints - 254 ypg, 6.9 ypa, 57% completion, 18 TDs, 6 INTs, (32) 20+yard completions allowed, 22 sacks recorded, 86.7 opposing QB rating

Rush Defense

17. Saints - 117 ypg, 5.0 ypc, 8 TD, 7 forced fumbles (on RBs), (11) 20+ yard runs allowed

23. Lions - 127 ypg, 4.8 ypc, 7 TD, 3 forced fumbles (on RBs), (12) 20+ yard runs allowed

Overall Statistical Comparison: Both teams look very similar on paper. The Saints have more explosive plays and a much better third down conversion rate on offense, while the Lions give up much less passing yards, have more sacks and a very low number of third downs allowed defensively. Aside from those glaring differences, not much stands out. If each team had everyone healthy, this game would be a shootout that would look like Week One versus Green Bay. It still may, but only for a half or so.

Comment 47 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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Great write up and I would like to point out

Although we give up a lot of passing yards the fact that teams probably pass more against us then almost anyone in the league should be taken into account
We are a fast passed offense that scores quickly and put up lots of points
Many times we come out to a lead and teams feel the need to pass and try and keep pace with us
I would like to see a stat of how many passes we defend against compared to the rest of the league I wouldn’t be surprised to see only GreenBay close to us in that

by mississippisaintsfan on Dec 3, 2011 11:20 AM CST reply actions  

OK I looked it up

Only GeenBay NE Chicago have defended more passes then us and we have a better percentage against the pass then all three
If you look at the yards per attempt we are 12 in the league
If you look at the percentage of passes completed against us we are 6th 57% only cleveland 56.6%, houston 50.7% ,baltimore 53.9%, oakland 52.3 , ny jets55.7 are better
I think our pass defense gets a bad rap

by mississippisaintsfan on Dec 3, 2011 11:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Another great analysis Mr. Gary

I agree, there are a lot of similarities to the Giants game. I’m looking to see the Saints try to run the ball up between the tackles, and if they succeed at that early, it will be a blow-out. I like our guards against their tackles.

But in the ongoing game of Spy-vs-Spy, I would not be surprised to see Detroit push their linebackers close to take the run away, and then trust to luck against the pass.

Should be great times!

by Ship on Dec 3, 2011 1:41 PM CST reply actions  

Trying really hard to give it a chance, but stopped reading here
addressing the linebacker position with the likes of… and Bobby Carpenter (who has rejuvenated his career).

You might as well have said “Rush is the best band in the world.” Because Bobby Carpenter is not a very good player. He’s worse than Scott Shanle. I doubt that a “rejuvenated” Carpenter gets much interest in the free agent market next year. If you like, we can keep track of his progress. How can I take you seriously, Mr. Gary, if you write things like this? Why did BleacherReport just come into my consciousness?
Rotoworld.com:

Carpenter isn’t likely to find a starting opportunity elsewhere.
the Lions expect free agent Bobby Carpenter to compete for a starting outside linebacker job in camp if he’s re-signed. The assumption is that Carpenter will indeed be back with the Lions, who signed him last October despite there being plenty of evidence to suggest he’s simply never going to be an effective NFL player.
Carpenter is a five-year veteran. The Lions seem to hold him in higher esteem than the rest of the league, so he’s returning to Detroit regardless.

I'm not like everybody else

by stujo4 on Dec 3, 2011 2:16 PM CST reply actions  

Are you somehow implying that Rush isn't the best band in the world?

“Pump your brakes, kid. That band’s a national treasure!”

-...and when there was no meat, we ate fowl and when there was no fowl, we ate crawdad and when there was no crawdad to be found, we ate sand.
-You ate what?
-We ate sand.
[pause]
-You ate SAND?
-That's right.

by Doc Boudin on Dec 3, 2011 3:25 PM CST up reply actions  

He’s worse than Scott Shanle.

Just wanted to see what that looked like inside of this nice pretty box.

I think I’ll have it framed and hand it out as an award to the sales rep with the absolute worst production numbers in our company for 2011.

Perfect.

~Anything by Yogi Berra~

by BewareofDog on Dec 3, 2011 4:32 PM CST up reply actions  

we should take a look at this objectively

Preston characterizes BC as a “quality veteran” and then sez:

Bobby Carpenter (who has rejuvenated his career).

Stu sez:

Bobby Carpenter is not a very good player. He’s worse than Scott Shanle. I doubt that a "rejuvenated" Carpenter gets much interest in the free agent market next year.

But just what does Preston mean? He doesn’t quantify it nor does he give evidence for this statement.

Stu offers up his judgement backed up by some rotoworld notes from just before he signed with Detroit this summer.

So far, you’ve both failed on providing any current evidence to support your assessments, so please allow me…

Bobby Carpenter’s 2011 stats (source):

3 starts, 22 combined tackles (17 solo, 5 assists), 1 PD, 1 INT (34 yd TD).

Scott Shanle’s 2011 stats (source):

11 starts, 51 combined tackles (32 solo, 19 assists), 4 PD, 1 INT (12 yds)

HansDat’s Hot Read of this disagreement:

Preston is correct in the rejuvenation of his career, simply because Carpenter has a job when he shouldn’t even have a job, and he actually plays, albeit with stats that are pretty poor. However, the characterization of Carpenter as a quality veteran does not hold up next to his stat line for 2011.

Stu is correct in his assessment of Carpenter as being worse than Shanle and probably not drawing much interest after this season (barring a huge change in play in the last 5 games), but since he provided no actual evidence, it makes it hard to agree based on his unsupported and out of date roto-commentary alone.

My ruling is that both sides need to up their game if they want to debate here on CSC.

That is all.

And much love to you both, but BOOM – AUDITED!

WIN NOW
WINGRAMANIA!!!!

by Hans Petersen on Dec 3, 2011 5:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Who's watching the watcher??

If we extrapolate Hans’ stats into a per-game basis, then Bobby Carpenter surpasses Scott Shanle in tackles, interceptions, TD’s, and almost equal in PD.

And that’s Mister Nit-Picking Bastard to all.

by Ship on Dec 3, 2011 6:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Send a fax to Mickey Loomis and ask him why he didn’t pick up Bobby Carpenter cheap in free agency last year in order to replace Scott Shanle: Better talent for less bucks, according to you. In your head.

I'm a real cool head, I'm makin' real good bread

by stujo4 on Dec 3, 2011 11:48 PM CST up reply actions  

While you’re at it… and him why he didn’t get Kyle Vanden Bosch too.

by Dan Kelly on Dec 4, 2011 11:00 AM CST up reply actions  

Id rather ask whim why he didn’t pursue Stephen Tulloch, whom I believe Detroit was able to sign on the cheap. Reportedly, there wasn’t much of a market which was very surprising. It was the same with Barrett Ruud and a few other notable linebackers whom many would consider better than anyone other than Vilma who signed for LESS than Shanle.

I think the Saints jumped the gun on re-signing Shanle, and that $2 million per year could have been put to better use at the LB position.

Stop wearing a wishbone where your backbone ought to be. Would you be convicted in court of being a Christian? Happiness is shared, and comes from sharing.

by Preston J. Gary, Jr. on Dec 4, 2011 2:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Unlike others, I am not on Faxing terms with Mr. Loomis...

But I might project that he would be unwilling to make a change for only a slightly better LB over the one that has learned GW’s system.

by Ship on Dec 5, 2011 12:00 PM CST up reply actions  

It’s not a debate. It’s a condemnation of Mr. Gary’s content that he has provided for our perusal. It’s worse than the Saints’ tweets for pay.

I did link to each player’s stats on NFL.com in my comment.

Preston is correct in the rejuvenation of his career, simply because Carpenter has a job when he shouldn’t even have a job, and he actually plays,

No he’s not. Just because the Lions are using him to fill a roster spot doesn’t mean he has rejuvenated his career. They did the same thing with him last year. I’d call him the Lito Sheppard of linebackers but that would be an insult to Lito Sheppard.

Your audit is refuted by the client.

I'm a real cool head, I'm makin' real good bread

by stujo4 on Dec 3, 2011 11:46 PM CST up reply actions  

audit – returned to sender

I do apologize for my sloppy reading of your comment and not realizing you had linked to the stats, so I retract that portion of the refuted audit in question

Joyous Eid!!

WIN NOW
WINGRAMANIA!!!!

by Hans Petersen on Dec 4, 2011 9:23 AM CST up reply actions  

anti-rec to my comment

I did not read Stu’s comment thoroughly enough to realize he actually did link to the stats of both players…

WIN NOW
WINGRAMANIA!!!!

by Hans Petersen on Dec 4, 2011 9:27 AM CST up reply actions  

I didn’t make it very clear that I did that either, so happy December Solstice!

I'm a real cool head, I'm makin' real good bread

by stujo4 on Dec 4, 2011 10:20 AM CST up reply actions  

A rejuvenated career doesn't mean he's any good.

It just means he sucks less than he did before.

Wanna say something? Sign up! It's free!

by Dave Cariello on Dec 3, 2011 5:20 PM CST up reply actions  

agreed, but PJ called him a "quality veteran"

which carries a certain level of basic skill/performance which I don’t think is supported by BC’s 2011 statline…

WIN NOW
WINGRAMANIA!!!!

by Hans Petersen on Dec 3, 2011 5:33 PM CST up reply actions  

It just means he sucks less than he did before.

He sucks as hard as he did last year, if not more.

I'm a real cool head, I'm makin' real good bread

by stujo4 on Dec 3, 2011 11:48 PM CST up reply actions  

ooooh, he’s so FIERCE! rrrrrRROWWWWlllll!!!!

I'm a real cool head, I'm makin' real good bread

by stujo4 on Dec 3, 2011 11:53 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Bwaaahhhahahah

I got to Rec this, just for Stu’s subtitiles.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.

by AcquiredPanic on Dec 4, 2011 12:29 AM CST up reply actions  

*subtitles

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.

by AcquiredPanic on Dec 4, 2011 12:30 AM CST up reply actions  

he might be about to bite Witten's ear off

that’s pretty fierce

and illegal

and he’ll probably get suspended and fined

WIN NOW
WINGRAMANIA!!!!

by Hans Petersen on Dec 4, 2011 9:24 AM CST up reply actions  

Bobby’s so bad ass, he doesn’t wear a mouthpiece. Unless he’s got on one of those Invisalign Tom Cruise clear types.

I'm a real cool head, I'm makin' real good bread

by stujo4 on Dec 4, 2011 10:21 AM CST up reply actions  

even more badass

he ate the mouthpiece…

WIN NOW
WINGRAMANIA!!!!

by Hans Petersen on Dec 4, 2011 1:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Things that worry me...

Earnest Graham torched us earlier this year, who is to say that another backup won’t do the same? If our defense can stop the run, then the only thing we have to worry about is, Calvin Johnson.

Calvin Johnson is freakishly good. Stafford doesn’t have to be right on the money to complete a pass to this guy.

by daisy117 on Dec 3, 2011 3:48 PM CST reply actions  

Megatron has been solved

By the Bears, Panters, and Packers. There is film available on how this was done. Rotoworld.com:

the Packers effectively shut him down by using Tramon Williams in press coverage and a safety over the top on virtually every play.

I'm not like everybody else

by stujo4 on Dec 3, 2011 4:29 PM CST up reply actions  

None of those teams megablitz like Gregg Williams.

If Williams pulls out his usual game, then you’re not going to be able to cover Calvin the way you want. So it comes down to the chess game. Beyond that, there are safeties who are good in coverage and those who are not.

Personally, I think it comes down to who has the better secondary in the end. I’m worried for the Lions because of the injuries they’ve sustained. I expect this game to be a shootout, but if the Lions have two starting DBs inactive this is very likely a Saints win.

No slogans. Just win!!!

by drgarnett on Dec 3, 2011 5:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Ok, two guys for Calvin, and then blitzing.

Do they suddenly give NO 13 players on defense? Because the numbers just don’t add up otherwise.

[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."

by NobodySpecial on Dec 3, 2011 5:49 PM CST up reply actions  

We did it to the Patriots in 2009… we took away Moss AND Welker with backup CB’s signed off the street.

It can happen.

by Dan Kelly on Dec 3, 2011 6:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Damn it, daisy. You’re on the List. GAAA!!

I'm a real cool head, I'm makin' real good bread

by stujo4 on Dec 4, 2011 10:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Good Break Down

I agree with everything, especially the waning playoff chances for the Lions. Given our secondary is banged up there may be some records set it the Saints play like they did against the Giants.

Wishing for an injury free game on both sides and am hoping there are a lot of points scored!

I cheer for the Saints every weekend, with this one week being the exception but I do feel that the Lions are a tad overmatched.

Best of luck in the playoffs!

2011 - The Year the Roar was restored!

by West Side Lions Fan on Dec 3, 2011 7:07 PM CST reply actions   2 recs

I’m not proud of the wordplay of pride of lions and the emotion pride, either.

I'm a real cool head, I'm makin' real good bread

by stujo4 on Dec 4, 2011 10:30 AM CST reply actions  

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