So many people are blathering on about how Aaron had a better season than Drew...
You know what? They're right. He did.
It. Doesn't. Matter.
The debate over who should be the MVP -- or whether both are equally deserving -- should not come down to who had the better season statistically. Oh they're important, they're useful, but they are not the FINAL criteria, or the most important. This is not the Heisman Trophy, folks. It's not honoring who was the best player in the NFL that year. If it was, the award would clearly belong solely to Aaron Rodgers and that's simple fact, move on with life and get over it.
But this isn't the Heisman. This is the Most Valuable Player -- the player who meant the most to his team. I challenge ANYBODY with a brain to look me in the eye and say with a straight face that Aaron hasn't had more help from its defense than Drew Brees has had. Now Drew does have a better running game to help him out, but outside of TOP fantasies that usually doesn't outright win a game solely on its own. On the other hand, defensive turnovers -- and especially defensive scores -- often are the outright difference between victory in defeat in something like 90+% of games. Even though we lost the turnover battle on MNF last week, we won the defensive scoring battle and the Foulclowns didn't get a single point off either of our turnovers. Obviously our defense has been stepping up in the last few weeks. But GB has had this all season long. We've only had it some of the time.
Nobody knows for sure what would happen if Matt Flynn had to replace Aaron for an extended period of time. Nobody knows what would happen if Chase Daniel had to do the same for Drew. But Aaron has won more games because his defense has given him short fields and defensive scores. Drew has had to do almost all of his work the hard way. (So has Brady, for that matter, but that's an argument for another day.)
Anybody who says Aaron's stats make him the shoo-in for the MVP is forgetting one key fact. This isn't the Heisman. It isn't who was the best player in the NFL this year. Or if it is, it should be renamed.
This FanPost was written by a reader and member of Canal Street Chronicles. It does not necessarily reflect the views of CSC and its staff or editors.
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With all due respect to you and Drew Brees, I still beg to differ.
Think of it this way.
Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers are both plenty valuable to their teams.
But imagine the Saints without Brees.
They could still play smashmouth football with PT/Ivory/Sproles/Ingram, and still win at least 9 games on that alone. (Easy, CP.)
Now..imagine Green Bay without Rodgers.
(Or…New England without Brady.)
Enough said.
Brees should get Offensive Player of the Year. Rodgers, however, earned the MVP.
and imagine the Colts without Manning...
oh, wait….
I think I am, therefore I am... I think
by alcoholic_insight on Dec 30, 2011 3:30 AM CST up reply actions
MVP in absentia?
I think I am, therefore I am... I think
by alcoholic_insight on Dec 30, 2011 3:32 AM CST up reply actions
I actually heard someone say P Manning should have gotten the MVP this year
Because he obviously was the most valuable player on that team!
SP: "No, No, No. I said 'Let's all take it to the Vikes again' not' Let's all take 2 Vicoden!'"
FIFY
Because he obviously was the most valuable player on that team NOT ON THAT TEAM!
Drew Brees....MVP Saint! Who Dat!!!
by cajuncommando58 on Dec 30, 2011 10:40 AM CST up reply actions
And you are completely discounting and ignoring
his point about the Green Bay defense’s role in Rodgers’ year. Not that it really matters, but if anything Rodgers has earned Offensive Player of the Year. At least, that was the reasoning they used in the MVP voting for the 2009 season. Drew had a statistically superior year to Manning, but they gave Manning the MVP anyway and Drew got the Offensive Player of the Year. Understand that I realize that past history doesn’t mean anything, and I think that both QBs had awesome years that deserve recognition. It will be interesting to see how they vote!
"It's about time that something good like this happened." - Drew Brees
I think the Saints could easily be a .500 team with a different QB. Maybe not with Chase Daniel, but there’s no guarantee they’d stand pat there, if Brees were to go down. 2005 was an anomaly. We’ve been competitive on offense since the Billy Joe years, be it running or passing.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
very difficult to forecast 9 wins on "smashmouth football.."
let’s see around the league the teams that pound so much.. how good their records are.. the titans.. miami. KC.. etc..
i don’t think so.. you take away the passing game from the saints and the run average would plummet.. the saints blocking schemes are not very sophisticated.. just a couple of different looks.. they would have to redesign the offense to strengthen the run game and it would take 3/4 of the season..
and that is not even taking into account the softer type of defense the saints play.. that would NOT play along well with a pounding style offense.. (you would need a baltimore style to make is work..)
no.. don’t see it.. 4-5 wins top.. (that is assuming chase daniel cannot complete 60% of his passes – if he is any good.. then maybe.. but smash alone.. no way..)
by the 9th plague on Dec 31, 2011 9:10 AM CST up reply actions
Course, I'mn not going to complain one bit...
..about having Drew Brees on this team and riding his arm to another Super Bowl. But, it’s nice to know that we have that sledgehammer as backup.
I agree with the points you make
regarding the purpose of the MVP award. It should be for the Most Valuable Player of the League. In fact, the same same argument you bring up was given as to why Peyton Manning got MVP in 2009 and Drew didn’t (“the Saints have all of those defensive takeaways and defensive scores…what would the Colts be without Manning? Peyton is much more valuable to the Colts…”) Part of the problem though is how does one definitively prove a player’s worth to their team? I will be interested to see how they justify whatever choice is made…
"It's about time that something good like this happened." - Drew Brees
Daniel would have to finish with three FEWER wins than Flynn, in order to prove that Brees was a bigger difference maker than Rodgers. I don’t see that happening. They’d likely both finish around 6-10.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
Do the sportswriters give them some big, diamond-encrusted ring for being chosen MVP?
Do y’all remember when LSU and Southern Cal split the national championship in 2003? Except…no, wait: Southern Cal wasn’t even at the stadium when LSU defeated Oklahoma. They won a poll.
Same thing here. I agree with Jimbo03: this is just a matter of opinion. The MVP isn’t some sort of official stat…its an opinion poll, and the only people allowed to vote are the same sports pundits we routinely characterize as idiots and retards. So who cares? If they give it to Drew, I’ll say good, it was deserved, and so what: we have bigger prizes to concentrate on.
"Sinn Féin, motherf*****s!"
and the only people allowed to vote are the same sports pundits we routinely characterize as idiots and retards.
Only those of us that view ourselves as above them.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
Hell, CP, even I consider you more intelligent than those retards. And I don’t consider you all that intelligent.
by FriarBob on Dec 30, 2011 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed. It’s nothing but a popularity contest. If you like trophies decided by vote go watch the Grammys, dancing with the stars, or BCS college football.
In Breesus' name we play
by Breesus Christ Superstar on Dec 31, 2011 7:23 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Agreed. It’s nothing but a popularity contest. If you like trophies decided by vote go watch the Grammys, dancing with the stars, or BCS college football.
In Breesus' name we play
by Breesus Christ Superstar on Dec 31, 2011 9:00 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
The reality is that the MVP vote was wrapped up after last year's superbowl
After the way Rodgers scorched through the playoffs, it was decided since week one that he would be MVP. End of discussion. Credit Rodgers with continuing to play at that high level. However, when you have the record breaking season Brees has had and you can barely get anyone to even consider him for so much as co-MVP, it just proves the whole thing is a joke.
In Breesus' name we play
by Breesus Christ Superstar on Jan 1, 2012 8:45 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Were they as impressive as the ones Brees broke?
"In fact, Sterger claims that, in one of the photos Favre allegedly sent her, he's masturbating — while wearing a pair of Crocs"
Ooops.
Yes Nope
FIFY
Every day I'm shufflin'!
by Just 'Nother Day on Jan 8, 2012 5:48 AM CST up reply actions
On the other hand, defensive turnovers — and especially defensive scores — often are the outright difference between victory in defeat in something like 90+% of games.
Laughable. Not even close to the difference maker a balanced offensive attack is.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
by coldpizza on Dec 30, 2011 9:27 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Even though we lost the turnover battle on MNF last week, we won the defensive scoring battle and the Foulclowns didn’t get a single point off either of our turnovers.
Which accounted for a whopping 7 points in a 29 point victory. If that’s your definition of the “outright difference between victory and defeat”, a balanced attack led to a “triple outright difference between victory and defeat” on offense.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
Prove it.
"I want to hand this trophy to the MVP of the Super Bowl -- and the MVP of the entire league.''
-- Saints coach Sean Payton, handing the Vince Lombardi Trophy to Drew Brees after Super Bowl 44.
by VAsaintsfan on Dec 30, 2011 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
A minimum of two balanced drives have led to Saints scores every week. Do the Packers have 30 takeaways? Case closed.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
Obviously our defense has been stepping up in the last few weeks. But GB has had this all season long. We’ve only had it some of the time.
Green Bay is 31st overall on defense. The Saints are 26th overall. Their turnover ratio is better, in part because Rodgers hasn’t thrown as many INTs. Child, please @ season long advantages.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
“Green Bay is 31st overall on defense.”
“The Saints are 26th overall.”
In yardage?
If so, that means very, very little… especially for them who have lots of turnovers.
If it’s some other ranking, I’d love to hear about it. I’ve always said they need a better ranking system. If you’ve found it, please let us know.
It’s not the size of your TOP, it’s how you use it!
Want scientific proof? Read this paper by Dr. Jeremy Arkes.
The offensive yardage gained already takes those non-pick sixes into account. If the INT was run back all the way to the opponent’s 1, Rodgers would only have one yard he could possibly accrue on that particular drive. Sure, they may have helped him rack up TDs more easily, but how does that prove he wouldn’t have scored those TDs either way? You could just as easily make the argument that the lack of defensive returns statistically benefitted Brees by giving him more field position to work with in accumulating his greater yardage total.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
by coldpizza on Dec 30, 2011 11:22 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And here's the thing
It’s another voting situation…this isn’t a Board of Governors sitting around a conference room deciding by consensus or group discussion, then a vote who’s going to be the 2011 NFL MVP, it’s decided by a secret (?) ballot of a panel of voters who mail (email), or point and click their votes, who are pretty much voting independently of each other.
What criteria are they given for this vote? How many people vote and who are they, exactly, and when will they vote?
Nobody really knows who’s going to get it until all the votes are tabulated, or what the mindset of every single voter is when they make their individual decisions and vote…although it does seem that some of mainstream narrative is that A-Rodg has had a better year statistically and his team has won more games, so it’s his award, but as I said above, the votes haven’t been counted and you won’t be able to know what each voter uses in his/her mind to choose a winner.
I just had a rap with Santa and we took us a little stroll
And all I want for Christmas is the Saints in the Super Bowl
With any luck, the majority of them will be Saints fans.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
that may be Obi-Wan Brees's only hope
I just had a rap with Santa and we took us a little stroll
And all I want for Christmas is the Saints in the Super Bowl
by Hans Petersen on Dec 30, 2011 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
50 people vote. Voting will be finished by the end of the week. As of this morning...known votes....Rodgers 2, Brees 0....48 to go.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
A QB goes 14-1 and deserves the MVP?
Oh I’m sorry, he’s got a few less interceptions and a few more TD’S. The rest of the stats (the majority) doesn’t matter. That’s funny. I bet you take a survey and ask the fans throughout the nation who they’d prefer watching, Brees or Rodgers, their answer would be Brees. It would be a legal poll with no jealous coaches, players, or so called professional know it alls.
Tommy, the majority of the stats are in Rodgers’s favor. As far as who the fans prefer watching goes, I’m sure most would choose Vick over Stafford. That doesn’t mean Vick had a better 2011 season than Stafford.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
Or was more valuable to the Eagles, than Stafford was to the Lions. Any way you slice it, it’s not a popularity contest.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
Pizza, have you ever looked at the QB stats?
Boy am I asking you a stupid question, am I ? Tell me where in the stat’s is he better than Brees besides TD’S and interceptions.
Total QBR, passer rating, YPA, 4th quarter passer efficiency, victories, hairline, can grow a nice handlebar moustache.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
by jeff.l.b on Jan 2, 2012 10:48 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Someone green this please.
"In fact, Sterger claims that, in one of the photos Favre allegedly sent her, he's masturbating — while wearing a pair of Crocs"
here's my 2 cents
The playoffs will decide this issue. Unfortunately, I think the MVP vote is before that, which in this case is wrong. It’s clearly between Brres and Rodgers IMO and although I want to give it to Brees, it’s hard to ignore that Rodgers basically threw 1 INT per month which is amazing.
But, after the NFC Championship, one quaterback max will be left standing. I think the MVP should go to the QB who takes his team the furthest unless one of those 2 QBs clearly plays significantly better than the other. It will be much less of a debateable issue most likely when the plaoffs get to that point. That’s when they should vote.
Since the playoffs are part of the season, they should matter as far as MVP voting is concerned because things can change in 3 games very easily.
"We've established the run; we've established the pass. Now all we have to establish is another championship!"
tomorrow's game may decide it.. per peter king..
the word is that GB will sit out rodgers against detroit..
i can see brees not playing the whole game.. but the pesky panthers will throw everything they gut, obligating a good output from the saints’ passing game..
according to king (and he is “connected”), a lock on the all time passing, a 500+ yardage advantage for brees, a new completion % record (beating his own, btw..) & a slim to none TD disadvantage, may propel brees to the top of the MVP voting..
(apparently QBR is just for stat-geek hackers & mathematician gurus moonlighting as football experts..)
by the 9th plague on Dec 31, 2011 1:23 PM CST up reply actions
I have to admit I've only skimmed these MVP posts, so stop me if you've already covered this
But would it be helpful here to throw around some of the same MVP arguments from Michael Jordan’s heyday in the NBA?
Does he make the players around him better? Where would the team be without him?
I just had a rap with Santa and we took us a little stroll
And all I want for Christmas is the Saints in the Super Bowl
You SKIMMED???????
Every day I'm shufflin'!
by Just 'Nother Day on Jan 1, 2012 12:02 AM CST up reply actions
sorry, JND
didn't mean to pop your brassiere
I just had a rap with Santa and we took us a little stroll
And all I want for Christmas is the Saints in the Super Bowl
by Hans Petersen on Jan 1, 2012 9:19 AM CST up reply actions

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