Panthers @ Saints: Start 'Em or Rest 'Em?
by Hans Petersen on Dec 31, 2011 7:34 AM CST
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OK CSCers, it is now 24 hours and some change until the Saints will take the field against the Carolina Panthers for the final regular season game of 2011 (technically, it's the first game of 2012, but who around here ever gets caught up in semantics?).
As I awoke today, I found myself still wondering what the Saints should do about playing their starters in this game, and how long they should stay in, as well.
Make the jump to review what we know and then speculate on this matter with me...
It's been a whirlwind few days since the Saints beat Atlanta on Monday night and Drew Breeeeeees!!! set the new single-season passing yardage mark, so let's just carefully walk ourselves through the sequence.
By Wednesday morning, Dave was already dealing with the question of Drew Brees's status for the game, and went on the record in support of him playing on Sunday to help stay ahead of Tom Brady, who is only 190 yards behind Brees in passing yards for 2011.
Then, based on Sean Payton's press conference later that day, Mike Triplett reported that the Saints would be playing to win on Sunday:
"We're going full speed ahead," said Payton, who said he doesn't even plan to pay attention to the score of the San Francisco 49ers-St. Louis Rams game, which will be played at the same time...
...Payton said he decided to play his starters this week, both because of that shot at the No. 2 seed and because he feels like his team is well-rested and has a lot of momentum going during its current seven-game win streak.
"We're playing some of our best football here the last few weeks," Payton said. "There's some value to that."
Nothing much changed on Thursday, as folks reported on Wednesday's statements, and while Drew Brees's Wednesday press conference didn't offer any information contradictory to Payton's, he did discuss how the situation in 2011 is different from that in 2010:
There's a lot of records out there we could potentially set, break. I think our mindset above and beyond that is how do we put ourselves in the best position to play and win in the playoffs and when you look at last year, you could say this situation is somewhat similar to last year where going into week 16 if we beat Tampa and Atlanta loses, we win the division and get the one seed. This time around, we're locked into the three unless we win, San Fran loses then we get the two, so that's a significant jump. That's the difference between a first round bye or not...
...Last year we felt we were a little banged up, should rest up, limited some guys. I think we all found ourselves scoreboard watching a little in regards to that other game, therefore I feel like not that we took a step back in that game. We just didn't progress and I feel like our mindset is that we want to continue to progress and continue to get better, because I think there are things that serve you well in this game if you can continue to stay in the rise as you head into the playoffs, whether they're confidence builders or situations that come up that you fight through.
Payton addressed the question from some different angles in Friday's press conference, first:
Does a potential upcoming playoff game next week affect your decision on whether you play a player in this week's game?
"I think it would have to be very simple: does he help the team in playing well enough to win a game? If the answer is no, if it's something that is potentially not full speed and it could hurt the team, then you can't play them. If the answer is yes, that would be a lot like week eight or week nine. It happened last week where Lance (Moore) as recovering and it seemed like he was doing well and then on the third catch all of a sudden he pulled up and now you're at 45 (players) on game day. You're always trying to gauge where that player is and is he healthy enough to help us. If the answer is yes, then that's one thing. If it's no, sometimes that's a difficult decision."
Then...
Was there any thought to not put the scores of the 49ers-Rams game this weekend on the scoreboard in the Mercedes-Benz Superdome?
"Honestly there are so many thoughts that come ahead of that, but I understand the question. I think we're treating it like we would (any game). This is a chance for us to win a 13th game, which has really been done once in this organization's history. We just got done talking at the end of practice, we feel like we've been playing good football and yet there are areas that we feel like we can improve on. We feel like that could help us heading into the postseason. We want to finish strong and we want to play well. I think that is separate entirely from what happens with any of the other games. It's always this last week where there are a handful of scenarios. I think maybe it's a little clearer in the NFC because it really just comes down to one game with either the Giants or Cowboys winning, but other than that the field is set. I think we're going to really pay closer attention to how we're doing rather than how anyone else is doing."
...and one more try to see if he'll say anything different:
Does the possibility of Drew Brees' single-season passing yardage record come into consideration at all with playing him?
"Not really. There are a lot of statistical little things that could be achieved or not achieved in this game, but not really. I think the focus is playing our best game against a team that we feel like is playing very well and is very hot and very difficult to defend. They're a team that's gotten better and better certainly since we played them last, which seems like such a long time ago. I think our focus is really on what we need to do to play our best football game and play these guys and finish the season on the right note."
OK, now you've got the official word(s) from Sean Payton and Drew Brees on the matter, as well as a tiny bit of analysis/assessment/projecting from Dave and Mike Triplett.
Sean Payton only tells the media what he wants them to know, so there's good reason to suspect he may be puffing out a smoke screen for strategic advantage.
And now the question is, "What in the wide, wide, world of sports are they really and actually going to do on Sunday against the Panthers?"
Please vote in the poll and then discuss your rationale in the comment section below. You can also explore the whole "shades of meaning" area by sharing what you THINK they will do and what they really SHOULD do (if there's a difference)...
Let's do this!
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Apologies ahead of time
I am a Panthers fan just got into New Orleans last night. I won a set of club seats @ the casino in addition to the tickets I already have. I would prefer to sell these to a Panthers fan, LOL but they seem to be in short supply in this area. So far everyone has been really cool, even with me wearing my Panthers gear downtown. I would hate for the tickets to go to waste. Thanks and if this is inappropriate for this forum feel free to delete.
you are welcome here, DonCarolina
as long as you play nice and understand that your Panthers will lose, so accept my advance apologies for the loss you’ll be taking on the chin in the Dome tomorrow for Happy New Year’s!!
Seriously, though, you are welcome here, as long as you play nice. Congrats on winning the tickets!!
We are hoping to shut down your Cam-game and your running game tomorrow. You kept it close last time in Charlotte, and Cam has only gotten better since then, so we’ll see how it plays out.
Oh, and be sure to visit our casinos and drop a dime or two more into the local economy. Get some good seafood at non-chain restaurants and enjoy yourself!!
Are you staying in/near the French Quarter?
I just had a rap with Santa and we took us a little stroll
And all I want for Christmas is the Saints in the Super Bowl
by Hans Petersen on Dec 31, 2011 9:44 AM CST up reply actions
Convention Center
Doing the river walk this morning. All about supporting mom and pops! Had to drag wife out of Harrahs last night.
by doncarolina on Dec 31, 2011 10:05 AM CST up reply actions
If you want to support mom and pops, I would also suggest a stroll down Magazine St.
Wanna say something? Sign up! It's free!
by Dave Cariello on Dec 31, 2011 10:10 AM CST up reply actions
Payton can say what he wants but............
You know he will be watching the score board or have someone watching for him. The second senario would allow him to say “He wont be watching”. If he was not concerned he would not be playing the starters to begin with but I like that they are. Continuity and timing during a bye week could be jeopardized with all the outside distractions going into the playoffs. I see this as a huge advantage going in. Any one of the players could get hurt in the first quarterof a playoff game and sitting them for this game would be for nothing.
My Magnificent Black and Gold Warriors
I say we play them through and kick their a**
They have had it pretty easy the last 2 years us trying to rest our starters in the 2nd half last year and starting back-ups in 2009
Quite frankly i’m tired of losing to them at home and hearing them talking about beating us at the dome
I think it’s time they get the full Dome affect and treatment like the Falcons did last week
They truely believe they can beat us and think they will take the div. next year
It’s time to send a message
by mississippisaintsfan on Dec 31, 2011 8:29 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
as far as playing the starters...
can you imagine if we were to rest starters and by some weird occurrence, St Louis wins? After all, they beat us. And they are at home. And they have Stephen Jackson. And SF has a pretty impotent offense. With very few WRs. And Drew Brees got sacked 6 x vs them. Suppose Alex Smith gets sacked and gets a concussion 2nd play of the game and everything gets turned upside down. I know this is unimaginable, and that ST L has a third string nobody at QB, but it could happen and if we lose due to not playing our starters, I’m just saying………
I think the bright thing out of all of this is SF HAS to play all out in this one- they can’t cruise at all. For them to lose the 2nd seed with a loss to ST L and enter the playoffs that way with no bye would be devestating to them.
"We've established the run; we've established the pass. Now all we have to establish is another championship!"
The thing here is why waste playing starters at all
If you’re not gonna play to win. Either you’re out to win the game or you aren’t. Last year we wound up getting people injured only to wind up throwing the game away regardless. I say if you are going in with the intention of winning, might as well do it and keep the momentum going 8-0 at home would be a great confidence builder (not that this team needs much more of that), as well as numerous records I know Payton doesn’t care about but you have to know they would like to achieve them if they can.
I agree, you have to play to win
"We've established the run; we've established the pass. Now all we have to establish is another championship!"
My fear is injuries
The Tampa game killed us last season heading into the playoffs. 4 of our major starters were injured and the defense was banged up. Not to mention, no running backs.
But I still say, play everyone and play to win.
If only the 49ers game was on Saturday, or we were an afternoon game.
We’re a healthy team this year. A must need heading into the playoffs. And we’re Hungry!
I spent 8 years trying to reach him...and then another 7 trying to keep him locked up because I realized what was living behind that boy's eyes was purely and simply...Evil.
Dr. Sam Loomis Aka (Donald Pleasence)
We need to continue this momentum, play them
Fee-fi-fo-fum,
I smell the blood of an Englishman,
Be he alive, or be he dead
I'll grind his bones to make my bread
by jonrockets on Dec 31, 2011 9:39 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
can't be scared if you're involved with the NFL
injuries are a potential issue, but you just can’t be scared- it doesn’t work.
"We've established the run; we've established the pass. Now all we have to establish is another championship!"
You're right Phillinwood
I just need to stop worrying so much and remember that this is a 180 degree turnaround from last season.
Screw it! Play them all in full force!
I spent 8 years trying to reach him...and then another 7 trying to keep him locked up because I realized what was living behind that boy's eyes was purely and simply...Evil.
Dr. Sam Loomis Aka (Donald Pleasence)
13-3 works for me!
Drew’s not going to back off until he pads that record some, and I don’t blame him. Also if he starts, he has to throw at least one TD, to keep his streak going. Wouldn’t even bother me if we were the # 3 seed. When you’re hot , don’t let it cool off. Not comparing us to them, but remember what happened to Atlanta, after their bye. Yeah we did have a bye in ’09, but we really needed it then, to get some players healthy for that run. This year we have managed to stay pretty healthy, and have not had to rush anybody back.
Drew Brees....MVP Saint! Who Dat!!!
by cajuncommando58 on Dec 31, 2011 10:16 AM CST reply actions
if we stay at 3rd seed, we will play Atlanta, Dallas or NYG
IMO, Atlanta is out of gas and although we may not blow them out againl, I don’t see them beating us in the first round of the playoffs. I predict NYG to win at home vs Dallas- they are kind of running on empty too. They don’t run the ball well, and they are built to play outside in Dec and Jan, not in a dome. Advantage Saints. I also think we can beat SF in any stadium in the NFL. They are a very unexplosive team that would have to shut us down to win. We’ll see!
"We've established the run; we've established the pass. Now all we have to establish is another championship!"
if we stay at 3rd seed, we will play Atlanta, Dallas or NYG
I wouldn’t mind beating Atlanta for the 3rd time. Would be sweet. But I would love to beat the daylights out of Dallas.
I spent 8 years trying to reach him...and then another 7 trying to keep him locked up because I realized what was living behind that boy's eyes was purely and simply...Evil.
Dr. Sam Loomis Aka (Donald Pleasence)
oops- that's wrong, Atlanta or Detroit.
we can beat Detroit,
"We've established the run; we've established the pass. Now all we have to establish is another championship!"
It's pretty clear New Orleans, Green Bay and San Francisco are the three best teams in the NFC.
If it weren’t for the fact that a win would tie the team record for wins, would give the team it’s first undefeated home record and, last but not least, solidify Drew’s record…. this decision would be a no brainer. Maintaining momentum, finishing strong, etc., will have very little, if anything, to do with Payton’s decision.
The odds are we won’t get a bye and will have to go through San Francisco and Green Bay in order to get to the Super Bowl regardless of anything else that happens tomorrow. While we have the opportunity to break several team records, not playing starters on Sunday wouldn’t diminish our chances in the first round of the playoffs any more than getting a first round bye wouldn’t diminish our chances in the second round.
We play the starters until this game is won for sure.
Sorry all you run up the score cry babies. If we have to run up the score, so be it. That is what we have to do Sunday, and once the game is put away, then we sit the starters. Until then, we keep the team hot by playing the game as usual. We don’t need any slacking off, or players getting unfocussed because they are not playing their regular game. Injuries can occur anytime, so we must play this game at our highest level, stay focussed, and play the game as you were playing before this one.
This is a must win for SF.
I see SF messing up a whole bunch in this game. They will be nervous, they will try too hard and their mind won’t be on the Rams, it will be on losing 2nd seed and the Saints winning. SF is not a high scoring team, they depend mostly on their defense. I think the Rams will have too much for their defense and their offense won’t be able to score enough to win this one. Rams 17- SF- 14. The Saints have to run up the score early, put the game away early, rest the starters, then go into the bye, stay rested and focussed and be ready to play their first playoff game with more ambition and power. The team always talks about room for improvement, well we’ll see the improvement more than what we’ve been seeing.
It’s possible the Rams will win. It’s also possible Michelle Bachmann will win the presidential election.
While the 49’ers have every reason to want to win this game, the Rams actually have a reason to not want to win. A loss keeps them an active player for winning the Luck Sweepstakes.
Other than breaking some records, there’s not one logical reason for the Saints to care about their game against the Panthers. The odds of it impacting their seeding is so minimal, it’s not even a consideration. We all remember what they did two years ago against the Panthers when that game had no impact on theiir seeding and things worked out pretty well as I recall.
With that said, I’m all for having an undeated home record, beating the Rams total season yardage record, tying the best season record in franchise history, and making certain that Brees keeps and pads his passing record. But, were it not for these things, I’d be in favor of trotting out the second team right from the start and, in essense, giving our starters a “bye” before the playoffs begin.
the Rams actually have a reason to not want to win.
Too bad those roles couldn’t have been reversed when we played them. A win that day or even against the Bucs, this conversation wouldn’t even be an issue. We’d have the number 2 seed locked and a bye week. We’ve always sucked at tie breakers.
But you know what? Maybe this season defines a more challenge on the road for us. Maybe it’s meant to be the Saints get their first playoff(s) wins on the road. Even in Green Bay in the cold.
If we continue to be hot like we have been. There’s no stopping us.
I spent 8 years trying to reach him...and then another 7 trying to keep him locked up because I realized what was living behind that boy's eyes was purely and simply...Evil.
Dr. Sam Loomis Aka (Donald Pleasence)
Quoting a line from Mike Sando at ESPN.com this past week:
“How did this team lose to the Rams and Bucaneers? It seems unfathomable now.”
"How did this team lose to the Rams and Bucaneers?
Overlooked them. And realized you have to play your best no matter who your opponent is. It made them mad. You don’t want to face a mad Saints team. The offense is unbelievable!
I spent 8 years trying to reach him...and then another 7 trying to keep him locked up because I realized what was living behind that boy's eyes was purely and simply...Evil.
Dr. Sam Loomis Aka (Donald Pleasence)
Don't make Drew mad.
You wouldn’t like him when he’s mad.
And maybe Marlon Brando will be there by the fire,
We'll sit and talk of Hollywood, and the good things there for hire...
by Doc Boudin on Dec 31, 2011 6:20 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
the rams are not starting neither bradford or feeley..
they are going to tank the game.. & it will be painfully obvious they will just roll to get the top pick.. this team is totally done.. coach is basically out the door & the QB may be whispered to be a bust.. their, once a beast RB is worn out.. they have very little peripheral talented playes.. their defense only plays good against one team (our team..)
there you have it.. zero chance.. unless SF really throws the game away on some inexplicable way.. they could win this thing 3-0.. on the first drive then take kneel downs & punt all day..
by the 9th plague on Dec 31, 2011 6:03 PM CST up reply actions
Underdogs
I like them. Do I think there’s a possibility St. Louis calls it in so they look good for the draft? Maybe but I’m not counting them out. I’m not savvy w/draft predictions between the Colts/Rams, but I’m hoping St. Louis won’t roll over & instead play inspired to beat one of the top teams in the NFC.
I’m going to be a hot mess at this game tomorrow. It’s like a long awaited pilgrimage home to the Motherland & I’m just happy to be here.
\\//\\// ||-|| (()) ||)) //-\\ =||=
You wiped the floor with victory, then puked until you fell asleep - Flogging Molly
by cockynessIsWHODAT on Dec 31, 2011 7:41 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I think the Rams will want to spoil the 49ers dream.
I do think it’s a dream for the 49ers. I’m not worried about the 49ers nor GB, nor the Birds. The Giants will make it and the Lions are there. The last two are the ones to watch for. I see a championship game against us and the Lions or Giants.
Well it can’t be against the Lions, we play them next week. I would rather like to host the NFCCG against the Giants tho. I could go for that.
But considering just how many other predictions you’ve completely screwed the pooch on recently, I guess that means we’ll either host the foulclowns, go to green bay, or not even make it that far.
My apologies Bob. A great predicting one as yourself could make a screwed the pooch comment on someone as myself.
I consider this one not so bad though, because I did say the Giants would make it and the lions are there. I just wasn’t sure if we’d have the #2 or #3 seed and didn’t know yet if we’d play the Birds or the Lions the first game. The Lions are out of that picture now because we will win them Saturday. But the Giants may still be there for that Championship game.
If the Rams (Lambs) come out with energy
I’m sure the Saints staff will monitor/make the right decisions. Its a meaning-less game for Car. too. If Super Cam pops an ACL on the Dome Turf`,what’s their angle.
You think you know, and you don't know, and you never, ever, will.-Jim Mora Sr.
I understand ....nothing.-Michael Scott
The Future is Unwritten.-Joe Strummer
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."-Mahatma Gandhi
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