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Position by Position Draft "Needs" 2011 Pt 2: Defense

 



Continuing from my other post from a couple weeks ago, I will now address my position by position needs on the defense. Our defense is, according to the last poll, the most needed position in this years draft, so this post should be a little more meaningful:

Star-divide

LB:

Starting with the Linebacker position (I know there are a few specific LB positions we could discuss, but fore the sake of saving time and space I will bunch them up into one group and pick one), this is one of the draft choices many fans think we could use. A young linebacker is always a great way to get build on a defense.

Akeem Ayers - OLB UCLA      Akeem-ayers_medium

One of the better OLBs in this years class, Ayers is a great pass rusher and that's what we need to help our defense. Scott Shanle is looking like he could be gone this year and hopefully a guy like this could step right in a play in his first year. This year he had 91 total tackles and 4 sacks and started all 12 games

 

DT:

Remi Ayodele will be a UFA this year, so we'll need to eventually get a body next to Ellis.

Stephen Paea - DT Oregon State      Stephen-paea_2__medium

6'1" 295 is a little under-sized (at least on our team: Ellis: 6'1" 307 and Adoyele 6'2" 318, 317 minus the mo-hawk) but I'm sure he would put on some weight in the NFL.  This guy is a beast, according to CBS: " a 600-pound squat, 500-pound bench press and the ability to churn out 44 repetitions of 225 pounds". With that being said, he's obviously a great project. I don't think we'd use a guy like this immediately, but there's always free agency for the time being. (unless we get another Jimmy Graham right?)

 

DE:

Another position that we are in need of is DE (at least a pass rushing one).

Adrian Clayborn - DE Iowa           211100105018_orange_bowl_georgia_tech_v_iowa_medium

Clayborn is another pass rusher, he could be taken well before us, but I'm gonna go with him as my choice because there's always those players that fall (and we never seem to pick up). In his career at Iowa he totaled 30 consecutive starts, 192 tackles, 37.5 TFLs, 19 sacks, not too shabby.

CB:

3 CBs in 3 years? I doubt it, but let's go for it anyway...

Brandon Harris - CB Miami (FL)    211091107055_virginia_at_miami_medium

Harris is also a KR/PR so there we go! I will say no more!

FS/SS:

We're pretty secure at both Safety positions, so I see no reason to spend a 1st rounder on one.

DeAndre McDaniel - SS Clemson       1758  

The Safety class this year is pretty poor (at least according to my main source CBS SPORTSLINE), McDaniel is the #1 ranked SS and he was ranked 59th overall, it also said his projected round drafted should be in the 2nd, so if we really want to reach for a Safety in the first, he's as close as it comes. Not too bad either: 8 INTs and 102 Tackles last season.

And that's it for the Defense, I refuse to do kicker/punter/long snapper for obvious reasons, so until next year...

 

I'd also like to thank CBS SPORTS for being my source (for rankings of players and such), they're one of the best draft sites in my opinion.

Poll
What should we do with our 1st rounder on defense?
LB
52 votes
DT
13 votes
DE
32 votes
CB
0 votes
S
0 votes
Trade for a hamburger large enough for all of Who Dat Nation to share!
7 votes

104 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost was written by a reader and member of Canal Street Chronicles. It does not necessarily reflect the views of CSC and its staff or editors.

Comment 82 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Voted LB, Im not sold on Casillas and I think we all agree on Shanle. I would have voted for the hamburger but I’m selfish. Can we just get a hamburger for us here at CSC? I mean we are 4,000 strong. That would be a mighty large hamburger.

"I understand this is a violent game. It's the only place you can hit somebody and not go to jail. So you understand that it's a privilege to play this game." Danny Clark

by cscmember on Feb 2, 2011 7:32 AM CST reply actions  

yeah i'm not too big on Casillas either

I don’t know if he’s ever started or got meaningful playing time at LB, and he only has 16 career tackles, and I’m sure most of those came on special teams.

by GRlZZ on Feb 2, 2011 7:35 AM CST up reply actions  

I think he has a lot potential but we can’t count on him… yet, at least. So yeah, I’m pretty big on LB. But I’d be OK with DE too. And even DT wouldn’t make me go all “cat rapist” nutzo like some people around here.

by FriarBob on Feb 2, 2011 9:59 PM CST up reply actions  

and also agree on the hamburger

we should have a 4000th member hamburger celebration…

by GRlZZ on Feb 2, 2011 7:36 AM CST up reply actions  

OK, who’s buying? You?

by FriarBob on Feb 2, 2011 9:59 PM CST up reply actions  

There'll be fries, right?

A hamburger isn’t the same without fries. Oh yeah, and I’ll order a Phil Taylor to go with my meal.

by were gonna need a bigger boat on Feb 5, 2011 8:40 PM CST up reply actions  

we all agree on Shanle.

Nice little club you’ve got there. I’m not in it and neither are Payton or Loomis. However, Rita thinks he’s creepy so there’s something.

Turn with my eyes to the wall
What am I supposed to do now?

by stujo4 on Feb 2, 2011 2:01 PM CST up reply actions  

GDub, also not a member.

Turn with my eyes to the wall
What am I supposed to do now?

by stujo4 on Feb 2, 2011 2:01 PM CST up reply actions  

So you think Shanle SHOULD be a starter next year. I will try harder not to talk for everyone next time. Please stujo forgive me.

"I understand this is a violent game. It's the only place you can hit somebody and not go to jail. So you understand that it's a privilege to play this game." Danny Clark

by cscmember on Feb 2, 2011 3:33 PM CST up reply actions  

The question isn't whether or not Shanle should be a starter

…it’s whether or not Shanle is so bad that we need to target his position in the draft, when our choices are severely limited. Or can we get by with Shanle for another season, but we definitely need to replace Alex Brown? Or we definitely need to replace Jermon Bushrod? Or we definitely need to replace Pierre Thomas, etc.? You do realize we have only five choices this year?

It was worth the wait.

by MtnExile on Feb 2, 2011 3:55 PM CST up reply actions  

can we get by with Shanle for another season, but we definitely need to replace Alex Brown?

I think that’s most likely.

"I really consider President and Mrs. Mubarak to be friends of my family" - Hillary Clinton, 3/10/2009

by stujo4 on Feb 2, 2011 4:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Currently. Bet we could move one of our 3rds for a 4th, 5th and 6th.

"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper

by coldpizza on Feb 2, 2011 4:17 PM CST up reply actions  

let me state the painfully obvious

That would assume that the scouts have identified undervalued talent available in the 4th-5th-6th. I’d rather use the 3rd round pick on a solid player than take a flyer on 3 Casillas/Chips/Browns/Woods/Canfields.

"I really consider President and Mrs. Mubarak to be friends of my family" - Hillary Clinton, 3/10/2009

by stujo4 on Feb 2, 2011 4:26 PM CST up reply actions  

...

Casillas was a UDFA… boom!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qais_eGMnWk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39GH-nzrY_I&feature=relatde

by tlsk1066 on Feb 2, 2011 5:47 PM CST up reply actions  

So you think Shanle SHOULD be a starter next year.

Show me where I said that. I didn’t.

"I really consider President and Mrs. Mubarak to be friends of my family" - Hillary Clinton, 3/10/2009

by stujo4 on Feb 2, 2011 4:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Im lost

Not saying that you did say that. I guess my question now is what did you think I implied when I said we all agree on Shanle and you replied that you were not in that club? It is starting to look like you assumed I meant one thing and then I assumed you meant something else. How come there isnt a little white flag I can wave.

"I understand this is a violent game. It's the only place you can hit somebody and not go to jail. So you understand that it's a privilege to play this game." Danny Clark

by cscmember on Feb 2, 2011 4:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Jesus1000 give me strength that GM Wang does not possess

No you didn’t say I said that. You implied I said that by saying I thought it, not in the form of a question.

what did you think I implied when I said we all agree on Shanle and you replied that you were not in that club?

I thought you assumed you had 4,000 members in your “Cut That Slow Moving Dim Witted Bald But Shaving So No One Notices Loser From Nebraska BIG 12!! Big 12!! Club”. Not everyone despises Scott Shanle. How is that not clear?

"I really consider President and Mrs. Mubarak to be friends of my family" - Hillary Clinton, 3/10/2009

by stujo4 on Feb 2, 2011 4:31 PM CST up reply actions  

How come there isnt a little white flag I can wave.

How about a little red, green & white one that I could raise for more chile rellenos?

"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper

by coldpizza on Feb 2, 2011 4:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Ponchos

You know thats a buffet now.

"I understand this is a violent game. It's the only place you can hit somebody and not go to jail. So you understand that it's a privilege to play this game." Danny Clark

by cscmember on Feb 2, 2011 4:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Hasn’t it always been? Here anyway.

"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper

by coldpizza on Feb 2, 2011 5:07 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah it always has been

at least to my knowledge…mmm Sopaipillas

by GRlZZ on Feb 2, 2011 5:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Was when i used to go to the one in Houston back in the 80s. LOVED their sour cream enchiladas.

"Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not 'every man for himself.' And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked 'em up."

by jeff.l.b on Feb 2, 2011 5:27 PM CST up reply actions  

I still go to the one here sometimes. Not really the same, though. It’s serve yourself, instead of the old “point out what you want to the Hispanic hottie in the hairnet” way. I miss pointing at my crotch while saying “what’s this?” They’d always assume I was talking about the item closest to the glass. “Flauta”. “Ohhhh, flauta.” turns to friend “It’s a flauta”. Still amuses me, even in my mature old age.

"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper

by coldpizza on Feb 3, 2011 1:54 AM CST up reply actions  

i remember as a kid going there and they’d give you a pinata for your birthday and a picture with “poncho” (a cutout figure of him at least)…and yeah it sucks now I don’t like how it’s just a straight up buffet..i like when they’d bring you stuff whenever you wanted and didnt even have to get up except for dessert….mmmm ice cream…

by GRlZZ on Feb 3, 2011 2:12 AM CST up reply actions  

They still have the flags, but they’re only for sopaipillas, chips or drink refills. I agree, I miss the full menu service.

"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper

by coldpizza on Feb 3, 2011 8:41 AM CST up reply actions  

You dirty ole man
I miss pointing at my crotch while saying "what’s this?"-coldpizza

Why does this amuse me so much? I may have to make this my new signature.

"I understand this is a violent game. It's the only place you can hit somebody and not go to jail. So you understand that it's a privilege to play this game." Danny Clark

by cscmember on Feb 3, 2011 7:33 AM CST up reply actions  

DO IT!
/peer pressure

Offseason Motto: Burn the damn black pants.
The Official CSC-TWSS Commenter
Canal Street Chronicles-you know you want to

by Jon Banks on Feb 3, 2011 3:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Done

I never could stand up to peer pressure.

I miss pointing at my crotch while saying "what’s this?"-coldpizza

by cscmember on Feb 3, 2011 4:56 PM CST up reply actions  

I think what it has always come down to for Shanle

Is that while we have certain players with more talent, he has a few years at this point in the system (and a few years before that playing) where he has picked up enough of a habit of being in the right place at the right time, and the superior talent has not been able to overcome that. If we focus on drafting LB, I would hope that whomever we get would be enough better physically than Shanle to overcome his experience on the field (or even if it is close, Payton and GDub go with the younger guy on upside).

by theprogrammerman on Feb 3, 2011 6:37 AM CST up reply actions  

This thread is about Pancho's, señor.

Please stick to the subject.

"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper

by coldpizza on Feb 3, 2011 8:44 AM CST up reply actions  

nah

that’s why I stuck it way out here. I know better than to get between football fans and a buffet.

by theprogrammerman on Feb 3, 2011 9:38 AM CST up reply actions  

I like what I saw from Casillas in the preseason.

He seemed to be the type of athlete we need out there at lb for our defense but like alot of players on this team staying healthy may be a problem. But this team needs a true pass rusher and on a 4-3 defense thats the DE’s. You dont draft LB for pass rushing if you are playing a 4-3 because unless you are blitzing, the lb’s are back in coverage. Now if we can generate a pass rush without blitzing we may have something. But alot of teams are saying the same thing!

What in the HELL just happened!?

by GESWhoseBack on Feb 2, 2011 8:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Paea is hurt...

so maybe we could pick him up late and let him rehab with us.

by BlackandGold4ever on Feb 2, 2011 8:13 AM CST reply actions  

I went...

with DE because I think we can get a quality OLB in rnd 2 or 3. I’d like to see us pick up Ryan Kerrigan and then go for Mason Foster at SAM.

GW raves about Casillas, so I doubt they are going to look for WILL early in the draft if at all. I could see them trying Casey matthews if hes around at our 2nd 3rd rnd pick, but that’s unlikely as someone is going to reach on him because of his name.

I would be shocked if we don’t try to pick up a big name OLB vet in the FA market this year. GW trusts vets and it usually takes a yr to for a rookie to get fully acclimated to his defense. I think a guy like Chad Greenway could be the guy, but I would LOVE Lamar Woodly, as he does everything a SAM is supposed to do, and he does it well.

I also think NT is a need, just not as big as DE or OLB. Remi plays his role, even if he doesn’t doing anything exceptionally. I think Stephen Paea is too small to play a conventional NT, but he does have quickness and power to make up for it. I know Saints scouting staff met with Phil Taylor at the Senior Bowl and I’d enjoy having him on our team. But I think he is a reeach in rd 1 but won’t be available when we pick in 2. I could see us going after Jurrell Casey(USC), Jerrel Powe(Ole Miss), or even Kenrick Ellis (Hampton) in the 3rd rnd, all which have the size, or capacity to be the size, of an NFL NT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qais_eGMnWk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39GH-nzrY_I&feature=relatde

by tlsk1066 on Feb 2, 2011 8:18 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd

I like Kerrigan and Foster, but maybe we can trade one 3rd and a 4th for a late second that we can use to pick up Sione Fua from Stanford? He’s 6’2", 302 lbs

by Ezio_Auditore on Feb 2, 2011 10:30 PM CST up reply actions  

I don’t see either Ayers or Clayborn being available at #24. Ryan Kerrigan might be there, and if so he’s a contender. Paea is injured, and he’s likely to drop just like Bruce Carter.

If Mark Ingram is still around at our spot, I don’t think we’ll be drafting defense.

It was worth the wait.

by MtnExile on Feb 2, 2011 8:23 AM CST reply actions  

DE

Unless we switch to a 3-4, we need a DE. We must find a way to get pressure with the front 4. This would help the entire defense. If we do switch to a 3-4, like some have suggested, we will need a couple of LB’s. I think this is unlikely,

by Ponysaints on Feb 2, 2011 8:25 AM CST reply actions  

Very unlikely

"I understand this is a violent game. It's the only place you can hit somebody and not go to jail. So you understand that it's a privilege to play this game." Danny Clark

by cscmember on Feb 2, 2011 9:11 AM CST up reply actions  

we wont switch to a 3-4

GDub and Payton like Ellis too much to take him out of the game (he’s too small for a NT)
and we dont have any athletic LBs besides Vilma. Marvin Mitchell has gotten alot better since we drafted him, but he’s just not mean enough

by vanondubs on Feb 2, 2011 2:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Theoretically, Ellis and Smith could play 3-4 DE and leave Remi at NT.

Not that I expect it to happen. At all. It’s just theoretically possible.

by FriarBob on Feb 2, 2011 10:01 PM CST up reply actions  

I voted for hamburger, as either Ingram or Leshoure should be the pick, assuming one falls to us, and I have a good feeling one will. If neither does, I’d rather trade back and recoup some of those later round picks.

"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper

by coldpizza on Feb 2, 2011 12:49 PM CST reply actions  

I agree with the RB pick. But not with trading back. There’s a lot of position we need starting caliber improvement on rather than back stocking special teams and quality backups we’d get by adding a 6th or 7th round pick. Considering there will be no linebacker available as well as most of the quality 4-3 pass rush specialist DEs of the board…I’d like to see us pick up one of the premium offensive tackles if one is still available. If both RBs and those tackles are gone…then I could understand moving back.

"Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not 'every man for himself.' And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked 'em up."

by jeff.l.b on Feb 2, 2011 2:14 PM CST up reply actions  

I’d be ok with an OT in the first. As long as it’s the BPA at a need position, I’m fine with pretty much whoever. With the possible exception of QB and DT. I consider both needs, just not enough of a need to override my desire for more picks. There’s a few other need positions that I’m ruling out (OLB, SS, FB) based strictly on the assumption that they won’t represent the BPA at 24. So, basically RB, OT, DE and WR. I definitely don’t want them to reach or trade up. I’m fine with trading down.

"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper

by coldpizza on Feb 2, 2011 4:31 PM CST up reply actions  

my desire for more picks.

Seriously: I don’t believe the quality of the talent evaluation warrants additional picks.

"I really consider President and Mrs. Mubarak to be friends of my family" - Hillary Clinton, 3/10/2009

by stujo4 on Feb 2, 2011 4:33 PM CST up reply actions  

The number of positions in need of an upgrade sure do.

"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper

by coldpizza on Feb 2, 2011 4:36 PM CST up reply actions  

The only position you listed above I’d have issue with is DE. Mostly because the DE’s that could potentially be available at this don’t fit our need. What we need more than anything from the DE position is a player that can help us put pressure on the QB. Cam Jordan, Watt, Heyward, all those guys are highly touted at stopping the run but are not thought of currently as exceptional pass rush guys. We don’t need a younger Alex Brown. If Clayborn, or or Kerrigan fell into our laps, however, that would be a good thing.

"Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not 'every man for himself.' And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked 'em up."

by jeff.l.b on Feb 2, 2011 4:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Scott Shanle is looking like he could be gone this year

Based on what, specifically? Fan opinion? Which hasn’t changed since 2006 except to become even more critical?

Turn with my eyes to the wall
What am I supposed to do now?

by stujo4 on Feb 2, 2011 1:58 PM CST reply actions  

One thing has definitely changed since then. He’s no longer under contract.

"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper

by coldpizza on Feb 2, 2011 4:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Scott Shanle = UFA I think we could pick him back up, but I was just saying it’s a possibilty that he could be gone next year

by GRlZZ on Feb 2, 2011 8:41 PM CST up reply actions  

1 + 1 doesn't equal 3

And that’s how many linebackers you need in a 4 – 3 defense…my point is that you have to try to keep Shanle and and improve the other linebacker spot. Remi has some mileage on him, so I think you have to look at not only replacing him, but improving the position.

by Saint for life on Feb 4, 2011 4:35 PM CST up reply actions  

nope...

keeping Shanle and improving the other spot will not help. GW has praised Casillas all season. He will start at WILL. We need to draft a SAM or get one in FA, which there will be a good few once the CBA.

Remi does not have “mileage” on him, he’s a young guy at 27 yrs old. The problem with Remi is that he is average, and I agree, we can upgrade his position.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qais_eGMnWk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39GH-nzrY_I&feature=relatde

by tlsk1066 on Feb 4, 2011 5:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Shanle is average

And Shanle is a starter. For FIVE SEASONS. Remi is a special teams player and comes in in relief.

All you Casillas fans need to sober up. I’m guessing he’ll never be the same.
Rotoworld.com:

Jonathan Casillas-LB- Saints Sep. 5 – 5:23 pm et
Saints coach Sean Payton revealed Sunday that WLB Jonathan Casillas was placed on I.R. due to a Lisfranc fracture. He’ll have surgery next week. It’s a blow to Casillas’ future, as the team will be more hesitant to rely on him as a starter coming off such a major injury. He was also injury prone at Wisconsin.

"I really consider President and Mrs. Mubarak to be friends of my family" - Hillary Clinton, 3/10/2009

by stujo4 on Feb 4, 2011 6:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Say what you want...

but all GW was doing during the Senior Bowl was seeking out media to praise Casillas. He obviously thinks very highly of him.

Yes, Scott Shanle was a starter for five years, but that’s because we had no one to take his place. I’m not lobbying for ANYONE in house to take over Shanle’s spot, we NEED to go draft or FA to get his replacement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qais_eGMnWk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39GH-nzrY_I&feature=relatde

by tlsk1066 on Feb 5, 2011 4:40 PM CST up reply actions  

but that’s because we had no one to take his place.

That is not the reason. He earned the job and the team was not looking for anyone else to take his place. The GM and the coaches manage the team, not the fans, and it’s not a popularity contest. Obviously.

Then the bus driver said "You still owe me a dime"
Ain’t it a cold, cold world

by stujo4 on Feb 5, 2011 9:15 PM CST up reply actions  

He earned the job and the team was not looking for anyone else

The reports of the Saints trying to acquire Shawn Merriman and Clint Ingram disagree with that.

Before Casillas’ injury, Shanle was penciled in at SAM, which is a LB position that doesn’t see alot of time in GW’s defensive scheme because of all the heavy nickel packages he uses. The reason we haven’t addressed the SAM spot has less to with Shanle “earning” a spot and more to do with the value not being there. Remember, our hands were tied with FA due to the Final Four Rule, we only got the scraps of the FAs. With picking at 32, it was even more important to find the BPA, which obviously never translated to an OLB as the FO didn’t see value matching with the position.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qais_eGMnWk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39GH-nzrY_I&feature=relatde

by tlsk1066 on Feb 5, 2011 9:27 PM CST up reply actions  

The reports of the Saints trying to acquire Shawn Merriman

That report was not accurate. Merriman? AND Tila Tequila? Child please.

and Clint Ingram disagree with that.

Clint Ingram couldn’t even beat out Scott Shanle for a starting job. Competition for contrast.

Before Casillas’ injury, Shanle was penciled in at SAM, which is a LB position that doesn’t see alot of time in GW’s defensive scheme because of all the heavy nickel packages he uses.

Who knows how long that would have lasted with Casillas running around like a chicken with his head cut off a la Harper in the Seattle playoff game?

With picking at 32, it was even more important to find the BPA, which obviously never translated to an OLB as the FO didn’t see value matching with the position.

Meaning the value of PRob allowed them to start Shanle if needed for another year. That Shanle wasn’t so awful that they couldn’t afford to keep him on the field as a starter for another year. That’s right, thank you.

Then the bus driver said "You still owe me a dime"
Ain’t it a cold, cold world

by stujo4 on Feb 6, 2011 12:06 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm at a loss...

How can you defend a guy with the worst Stop Rate against the pass of any OLB in the entire league.

Shutdown Corner:

Moving between weakside and strongside this season after losing battery mate Scott Fujita(notes) to the Browns, Shanle has racked up the worst Stop Rate against the pass (19 percent) of any outside linebacker. Pass plays in his general direction have averaged 9.6 yards — we’re no math professors, but when you’re almost giving up a first down per play, that’s not good.

ProFootball Focus after the NO @ ATL game:
The competition, or apparent lack thereof at outside linebacker for the Saints has been a point of focus for us this season, and the battle between Scott Shanle (-1.1) and JoLonn Dunbar (1.4) was brought into sharp focus in this game. Both saw extended action, with Dunbar again outperforming Shanle. Thus far this season Shanle has graded positively in only one game (0.7 against the Seahawks), by comparison Dunbar has graded positively in his last 3 starts. Dunbar has Shanle comfortably put in the shade for run defense (3.5 compared to -10.6) and pass coverage (2.1 compared to -14.5), quite what is keeping Shanle on the field for so long is unclear. When Danny Clark returns from injury, it should be Dunbar on the other side.

after the Pittsburgh game:

What was JoLonn Dunbar‘s reward for a solid pair of starts at weakside linebacker (2.1 in two weeks)? Being benched for the consistently dreadful Scott Shanle (-3.7). Shanle was consistently poor for the first five weeks of the season prior to his injury, with his best performance (-0.1) coming in Week 1 against the Vikings, and his return from injury saw him continue in that vein. Shanle was at least solid in coverage (0.3) but his run defense was abysmal (-3.0) and bringing no pressure on 14 blitzes in the passing game is a very poor return from any defender. The Saints have made the wise choice of bringing in solid two-down linebacker Danny Clark at SLB, but the decision to play Shanle over Dunbar at WLB is baffling at best.

None of this says Shanle is “average”.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qais_eGMnWk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39GH-nzrY_I&feature=relatde

by tlsk1066 on Feb 6, 2011 9:50 AM CST up reply actions  

The guy starts 14 games, you pick 2 where he sucked and condemn him, after a subjective criticism using a BS made up statistic called Stop Rate. That’s a less than average argument.

You want to dump Shanle and you are not the only one. Be careful what you wish for.

Then the bus driver said "You still owe me a dime"
Ain’t it a cold, cold world

by stujo4 on Feb 6, 2011 11:45 AM CST up reply actions  

whatever...

you want to keep Shanle as a starter for whatever reason and you will completely ignore bad games, which were all season, not just two games, and dismiss my argument as “less than average”, which is backed by stats that are not “bs”. So obviously, arguing with you will get me and this discussion nowhere, so I’m done. If your content with a starting OLB with consistently poor play, so be it. This is a fundamentally unsound argument.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qais_eGMnWk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39GH-nzrY_I&feature=relatde

by tlsk1066 on Feb 6, 2011 1:53 PM CST up reply actions  

you want to keep Shanle as a starter for whatever reason

I have never said that. PayLoo and GDub have said it for 5 seasons but I don’t know if they’ll go one more.

If your content with a starting OLB with consistently poor play, so be it.

I don’t think you know what “poor” looks like, pal.

Then the bus driver said "You still owe me a dime"
Ain’t it a cold, cold world

by stujo4 on Feb 6, 2011 2:09 PM CST up reply actions  

like I said...

we’re at an impasse. You’ve seen more Saints football than me so maybe our definitions of “poor” are different, but what I see almost every Sunday is “poor” and we deserve better.

PS
You could probably work on sounding less condescending in your posts. Telling me that I don’t know what “poor looks like pal” or that my argument is “less than average” and the stats I choose are “bs” just because you’re unfamiliar with them comes across badly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qais_eGMnWk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39GH-nzrY_I&feature=relatde

by tlsk1066 on Feb 6, 2011 2:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Hey, I’ve been presently myself badly for a long time, junior. And your stats still suck.

Then the bus driver said "You still owe me a dime"
Ain’t it a cold, cold world

by stujo4 on Feb 6, 2011 2:36 PM CST up reply actions  

OK, here’s poor:
Bobby Carpenter LB
The Bottom 100: The worst players in NFL history
98. Bobby Carpenter; linebacker; Cowboys, Dolphins, Lions; 2006-present: Still earning an NFL paycheck, but for how long? The softest linebacker in the history of the league — but a heckuva nice guy.

Then the bus driver said "You still owe me a dime"
Ain’t it a cold, cold world

by stujo4 on Feb 6, 2011 2:35 PM CST up reply actions  

and let me pre-reply...

I don’t dislike Scott Shanle. From EVERYTHING I’ve heard and read from the locker room, coaching staff, and media, the guy is a stand up man and a vocal leader in the locker room. His service to the black and gold has been commendable and I’m very glad he has been part of the team from a leadership standpoint.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qais_eGMnWk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39GH-nzrY_I&feature=relatde

by tlsk1066 on Feb 6, 2011 2:10 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm sure many will not agree with me, but I'd trade back...

in the first round and try to get a couple more picks (2nd and 3rd, maybe). Not sure what the value would be, but I guess that all depends on who is left on the board.

by BlackandGold4ever on Feb 3, 2011 9:20 AM CST reply actions  

I tend to agree. I’d rather cover as many needs as possible in the draft, being that UFA represents the Great Beyond this year. Usually, I’m of the opposite thinking. I just don’t want to see any of these positions:

QB (backup with more potential than Daniel)
RB (preferrably two, including a reliable starter in the franchise RB vein)
FB (starter whose forte is lead blocking)
WR (preferrably a true difference maker; probably a pipe dream, considering all the more pressing needs).
OT (franchise caliber; see top flight WR in terms of likelihood)

DE (immediate starter)
DT (starting potential)
OLB (preferrably two; one immediate starter, one with at least starting potential)
SS (starting potential)
 
RS (likely already covered in the form of the WR and/or second RB)

… go unaddressed. That’s already 4-6 more needs than we have draft picks. Factor in replacements for UFAs that get away at other positions + a 3rd TE to replace Shockey (if cap room becomes a serious issue) and it starts to become a little iffy. And most of that is just starters. There’s improved depth to consider, if the guys being upgraded upon are making too much to sit on the bench. Not a huge deal there, as there’s always going to be UDFAs to fill the cracks.

"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper

by coldpizza on Feb 3, 2011 9:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Of course, if you’re considering trading out of the first round, odds are a franchise RB, OT, WR or DE are probably no longer on the board. They’re all still positions that could be upgraded upon, though. Even without that perennial Pro Bowl level potential.

"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper

by coldpizza on Feb 3, 2011 9:47 AM CST up reply actions  

You never know…statistics show that the best place to draft a starting caliber RB is the second round. We need to stop trading AWAY our picks every damn year.

"Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not 'every man for himself.' And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked 'em up."

by jeff.l.b on Feb 3, 2011 10:15 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree

Unless we start to mirror the Patriots method of stock piling future picks. That team has built a ridiculously strong pile of picks.

I like Hamburgers!

by Grumps on Feb 3, 2011 10:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Agreed. I’m sick of trading up for no apparent reason.

"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper

by coldpizza on Feb 3, 2011 10:43 AM CST up reply actions  

I don’t mind single pick trades for veteran players, though.

"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper

by coldpizza on Feb 3, 2011 10:45 AM CST up reply actions  

Need that agreement signed first.

"Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not 'every man for himself.' And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked 'em up."

by jeff.l.b on Feb 3, 2011 10:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, I just meant in general. If a player for a pick is all you’re getting anyway, I have no problem going the experienced route.

"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper

by coldpizza on Feb 3, 2011 10:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Within reason, obviously. I’m not willing to give up a 1st rounder for Tony Gonzalez.

"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper

by coldpizza on Feb 3, 2011 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Can you think of any examples of a team getting multiple players (and no picks) for a single pick (and no players)? I honestly can’t off the top of my head.

"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper

by coldpizza on Feb 3, 2011 11:04 AM CST up reply actions  

Nope. All the multi-personnel deals i can recall swapped some combination of picks as well.

"Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not 'every man for himself.' And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked 'em up."

by jeff.l.b on Feb 3, 2011 11:16 AM CST up reply actions  

The Colts traded for 1st pick (Jeff George)

while it included picks, the trade was Chris Hinton, Andre Rison, and 2 picks for the 1st overall pick.

by BlackandGold4ever on Feb 4, 2011 10:46 AM CST up reply actions  

Close, but no cigar.

"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper

by coldpizza on Feb 4, 2011 10:52 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah...

I’m just thinking that’s gonna be the closest thing we’ll find

by BlackandGold4ever on Feb 4, 2011 11:02 AM CST up reply actions  

Well, the year we only had 4 draft picks...

…was the year we won the Super Bowl. Jus’ sayin.

But yeah, I agree, we need at least six picks each draft year.

by Jee on Feb 3, 2011 12:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Absolutely the way to go!

If you don’t think hording players picks is the way to go….See New England Patriots!
 
I like the picks in this order
OLB – Keep Shanle and add a guy on the other side and let Casillas back them up
OT – We need a good blindside guy to protect the franchise
DT – Need a run stuffer DESPERATELY!!!
DE – Pass Rusher with decent run stopping ability
RB – A throw-back bruiser type running style.
WR – We’ve needed a playmaker for a while someone who Drew doesn’t have to throw open.
SS – I want it but with Harper making the pro bowl it aint gonna happen

by Saint for life on Feb 4, 2011 4:42 PM CST up reply actions  

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