Starting Center for the Saints: Matt Tennant or Jonathan Goodwin?
If the lockout ever ends, the Saints will have a tough decision to make on the interior offensive line. I think we're all in agreement that a long term investment in Carl Nicks is a no brainer. The dude is good, plain and simple. Let us not forget, though, that the Saints invested in Jahri Evans at 7 years for $56.7 million almost exactly a year ago.
Giving Nicks a long term deal, which is likely to happen very soon, will all of a sudden tie up a ridiculous amount of money at the guard positions. Probably more money than a team should ever spend on their interior line. How can you let guys of that quality go, though?
Nicks and Evans are both rare gems that dominate in the trenches and football teams need that kind of talent, especially when they're a passing team with a quarterback that adores evading the pass rush by stepping up into the pocket. I think getting Nicks locked up long term is very high on the Saints to-do list. But where does this leave starting center Jonathan Goodwin?
Goodwin made his first Pro Bowl two seasons ago and he backed that up with another reasonably solid year this past season. Goodwin kind of gets forgotten about amidst all the attention that Evans and Nicks get, but let's make no mistake, the guy is a solid NFL center. And he became that the hard way, waiting for years to finally get an opportunity. Jeff Faine left New Orleans for Tampa Bay and Goodwin has had his position on lockdown ever since.
There's a reason the Saints have been labelled as one of the best offensive lines despite incredibly spotty play at the tackle positions. To me it's clear that the interior three for the Saints have been the best in the NFL. Still, once they have Evans and Nicks with massive contracts, how much is left for unrestricted free agent Goodwin?
Goodwin is 32 years old and will turn 33 in December. At this point in his career this is probably the last time he enters free agency with a real chance to get a contract. For starters, if he finds a suitor that throws the kind of money at him like Jeff Faine saw, he's gone. Period. That said, I doubt he's finding many investors looking for more than three seasons of service.
It's hard to know where Goodwin stands but one would have to think he views this off-season as his last "real"opportunity to cash in. With that being said, can the Saints really throw out the kind of cash he would want, especially after the stupid money they're going to throw at Nicks? At what point does it stop making sense to tie up all your cap space in interior blocking?
The question then becomes whether Goodwin would come back to the Saints at a bargain. I know he loves the team and he loves the fans, so there's definitely a chance. But again, he can't expect to have two solid seasons with the Saints on the cheap and enter free agency at 34 years of age looking for a long term deal from someone else with a big signing bonus. His chance for that has probably already passed, but at the utmost it's now or never. I think it's unfair for us to A) expect the Saints to invest heavily in him and B) expect Goodwin to pass up more money to stay.
Then you enter Matt Tennant into the picture. The Saints drafted him in the 5th round out of Boston College last season. Coincidentally, that's the same round from which the Saints plucked Carl Nicks. Tennant is under contract already for a while at a cheap price. He's 24, and the Saints really seem to like him. Plus, at some point, the Saints have to start wondering how much of a liability can this kid really be with Carl Nicks and Jahri Evans playing on either side of him? The only question is whether Tennant is ready to assume the duty of being a starting NFL center or not. I know the Saints are very tempted to have him learn through trial by fire.
Personally this is the side of the business that just sucks. I understand it, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. Goodwin is one of my favorites. How can you not love the guy? It would devastate me to see him sign a huge deal with the Chiefs or some other team in need. But that's a very realistic scenario. Hey, it happened with Scott Fujita and it broke my heart then, too. At the end of the day, you just can't keep everybody. Business-wise, it makes sense to turn the torch over to a youngster with promise while he can learn on the job playing next to the best in the business.
So what say you? Is the New Orleans Saints starting center this season Jonathan Goodwin, again, or Matt Tennant?
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I think that Payloo
will offer a 2-3 year deal at a slight raise over his previous deal and tell him,“take it or leave it”
I bet they’re willing to let him go for more money…although they may attempt to beat another offer if it’s not too high – time will tell how confident they are in Tennant’s ability to take over.
I agree that this may play out like Fujita, although I’m not sure he’ll get as big of a contract thrown at him…
Thumbs up, everybody...
For rock and roll!!!!
how's that for waffling and weasling?
a bunch of words, but nothing even remotely close to being List-worthy…
Thumbs up, everybody...
For rock and roll!!!!
by Hans Petersen on Jun 8, 2011 7:48 AM CDT up reply actions
I’ve always been a big fan of J Goody. Smart and nasty. I hope we can keep him. His age doesn’t seem to be too much of a factor yet, I guess it depends on his demand around the league
Juge, could you tell us more about Matt Tennant? Would he be a downgrade?
In Breesus' name we play
by Breesus Christ Superstar on Jun 8, 2011 8:28 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
definitely a downgrade
J Goody is a Pro Bowl center and like you said, he’s got a terrific combination of strength and intelligence. Goodwin is an AMAZING pull blocker. He’s most effective on screens and sweeps because he has quick feet and when he gets to the edge he destroys linebackers. Remember all those screens where Reggie and PT have broken long runs the last few years? J Goody was a HUGE part of that. He’s the main reason that play has worked so well for the Saints.
The big question is: does it really matter that Tennant is a downgrade? The Saints like him and think he has potential. And Nicks/Evans are THE BEST guard tandem in the NFL. When it’s all said and done they have a chance to be the best tandem ever if the Saints keep them together and they stay healthy. You can probably put a lot of marginal centers in between those guys and they would flourish.
He’s most effective on screens and sweeps because he has quick feet and when he gets to the edge he destroys linebackers.
The same could be said of any center in the league. The real question is, how often does a center wind up engaging with a linebacker, even on those types of plays? Maybe once a game, if that?
"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper
The same cannot be said of any center
Goodwin is exceptional in that department. Much better than your average NFL center. For his size he moves laterally as quickly as anyone out there. And yes, he engages linebackers a what I suspect is a higher rate than other centers.
And yes, I agree it doesn’t happen enough to likely make a break a game’s outcome… but you never know. It’s a game of inches…
Centers seldom get to LBs, as they have DTs to deal with. Guards are the ones that typically engage LBs on pulling plays. And the same can most certainly be said of any center. They’re all in excess of 300 lbs and will blow up most LBs.
"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper
that's my point!
Goodwin pulls A LOT more than the average center specifically because he is much quicker than the average center and the Saints like having him on the edge to spring plays
that's my point!
He’s not getting to the edge to spring plays with any regularity. No center is. He’s better than average at pull blocking — not on LBs, but in GENERAL — because he also plays guard and has learned those techniques over time within that capacity. Same reason Carl Nicks is a better than average pass blocking guard. He learned as a tackle.
"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper
Maybe Tennant will be an upgrade on bread and butter running plays up the gut. I’d much rather that, than a center geared for dump offs and misdirection.
"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper
we don't know that
He is said to be strong and physical, but Goodwin is no slouch in that department. While I agree with you, the Saints aren’t a run the ball up the gut offense. They are a dump off/misdirection offense. That’s the majority of the plays Payton calls, and that’s why Goodwin is a much better fit for our O-Line that most centers out there.
It’s 2011, Andrew. We have a legitimate NFL starting caliber RB on the roster now. Those types of plays were being called because we didn’t at the time.
"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper
thanks for the reminder of what year it is, cold, I had no idea. “We have a legitimate NFL starting caliber RB on the roster now” – you mean the guy we just drafted that hasn’t played a down yet? I’m as big of an Ingram believer as anyone but let’s not call him a egitimate NFL starting caliber RB until he actually proves to be such, please?
Do the names Lawrence Phillips, Vaughn Dunbar, Ki-Jana Carter, Blair Thomas, Ron Dayne ring a bell? I doubt Ingram will end up in the same fate and I surely hope he doesn’t, but you’re sprinkling that anointing water mighty fast cowboy
AND
even if Ingram is that player, I’m not convinced Sean Payton necessarily changes his playbook OR play calling for him.
Do the names Lawrence Phillips, Vaughn Dunbar, Ki-Jana Carter, Blair Thomas, Ron Dayne ring a bell?
Yes, sir. They all ring a bell. And they were all used as straight forward runners, as that was their forte coming out of college.
even if Ingram is that player, I’m not convinced Sean Payton necessarily changes his playbook OR play calling for him.
Of COURSE he’s going to change the play calling for him. Why on earth would you draft a between the tackles runner, if you’re not going to use him as such?
"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper
Ahh, pizza has found the kool-aid and added INGRAMANIA!!!
Canal Street Chronicles-A place of great Saints news and information. Oh and the stuff I write!
"I rejected those answers. Instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose...Rapture!"
I’m as big of an Ingram believer as anyone
Obviously not true. You do not end every comment with INGRAMANIA!!!
let’s not call him a (l)egitimate NFL starting caliber RB until he actually proves to be such, please?
you’re sprinkling that anointing water mighty fast cowboy
I’m not convinced Sean Payton necessarily changes his playbook OR play calling for him.
I’m thinking Pat Ysnknss is not going to link to these comments, Andrew. You’re on the List with xen-cuts and biggerboatneeder.
Those days are gone forever
I should just let 'em go, but...
I agree with him, and I'm one of the biggest INGRAMANIA peoples.
I believe he’s going to be a damn good running back, but not right now. Give him half a season to get warmed up.
Canal Street Chronicles-A place of great Saints news and information. Oh and the stuff I write!
"I rejected those answers. Instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose...Rapture!"
let’s not call him a egitimate NFL starting caliber RB until he actually proves to be such, please?
If we wait until he proves it, wouldn’t the word “caliber” be rendered superflous? At that point, he would BE a legitimate starting RB, not simply the caliber of one. Caliber indicates potential, as does draft position. It also indicates uncertainty. You’re not hitting on much with your caveats.
"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper
Are you getting all fired up? Can I watch?
by snowboard_kat on Jun 8, 2011 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions
How about potential NFL starting calliber RB?
Would that work for everyone?
Canal Street Chronicles-A place of great Saints news and information. Oh and the stuff I write!
"I rejected those answers. Instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose...Rapture!"
maybe a bit redundant, but I'm all for good words!
Thumbs up, everybody...
For rock and roll!!!!
by Hans Petersen on Jun 9, 2011 7:46 AM CDT up reply actions
but Goodwin is no slouch in that department.
That remains to be seen. I’ve yet to see Goodwin pave the way for a 1000 yard runner, be it inside or outside. Don’t kid yourself with the Pro Bowl talk. He got Pro Bowl recognition based on the guy touching his ass, same as Jeff Saturday. If you honestly believe either one of those guys are putting other starting NFL centers to shame, you’re naive.
"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper
Saints seem to be taking steps in the right direction by paying the higher performing members of the team, whilst offering “take it or leave it” type deals to its average / replaceable / older members.
With that in mind the Saints have recognized where they are old / average on the o-line with the drafting of Brown and Tenant last year. Like HansDat, assume the Saints will offer a 2 year deal to Goodwin at about his current rate, but in any event expect Tenant to be taking snaps by year’s end – which will leave the age of our o-line quite young – Bushrod 26 or Brown 24; Nicks 26; Tenant 24; Evans 27; Stinchcomb 31.
Don’t know if Strief is the long term answer to replace Stinchcomb (or as Jimmy Graham’s back-up), but assuming we resign Nicks the o-line seems fairly set.
Andrew, I think you are dead on with your thoughts on the center position. I think saints keep Nicks because he’s Pro Bowl talent and durable. Most NFL teams don’t spend 100 million on guards but most teams don’t have arguably THE TWO BEST IN THE NFL. I actually think the hardest personal call for the saints will be Tracey Porter. Yes, he is a legend but he’s never played 16 games in a season and what happens if he stays healthy this year and just crushes it? Do you pay him 60 million with 20 million guaranteed? I love the guy but I’m not sure Porter will ever be healthy consistently.
I hate to say it
but I’d rather see us invest long term in Jenkins than Porter. Different position I know, but you have to pick and choose where you spend. They’re not necessarily mutually exclusive, but I agree that Porter has injury history and I question how long he can maintain top level performance. We already saw a drop off last year.
Agreed.
Free Safety has much more deciding factor on a team than a corner. Even Asomugha can only lock down one receiver, while a free safety like Reed can take down half a field.
Canal Street Chronicles-A place of great Saints news and information. Oh and the stuff I write!
"I rejected those answers. Instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose...Rapture!"
I question how long he can maintain top level performance. We already saw a drop off last year.
I question if we ever got “top level performance” out of him to begin with. Four INTs + two at opportune times in the playoffs. That’s not exactly something to hang your hat on. Decent starting corner, but far from great, imo. Even in 2009.
"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper
I don't think INT total
paints the picture of how good a player is by any means. Jason David had some pretty high INT totals.
Higher than Porter, in fact. It also doesn’t paint the picture of how bad they are either. I’m just saying, Porter isn’t anything super special and hasn’t been at any point, outside of those two critical plays in the playoffs. You’re calling it a drop off. Would you consider Dexter Jackson’s post Super Bowl career a “drop off”? More like a flash that has yet to be duplicated.
"I was not on the boat in question" -Darren Sharper
Don't know if this is possible...
But I know that in the NBA, GMs tend to extend or restructure any players’ contract that is pretty large so that the team can accommodate other players such as Goody or Tennant. Does it work the same way in the NFL?
Key word here is "un-restricted" Free-Agent...
How does this play out. Can we offer him the cheap deal and then lose him to another team? If so do we get another bonus Draft pick like with Scott Fujita? Who knows until a new CBA gets done. I voted Tennant, because This is the scenario I see happening, not because I think Goodwin is done. Hope he can stay with the team but we have to many dollars we need to invest elsewhere to reasonably expect this to be a priority.
INGRAMANIA equals LOMBARDI 2012
by cajuncommando58 on Jun 8, 2011 10:58 AM CDT reply actions
Congrats on getting this article linked to on Pat Yasinskas’ blog.
by AJG on Jun 8, 2011 11:26 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Congrats Andrew. Good article. It seems to be a Fujita situation. Hopefully he’ll take less money to stay with us, but if not, I think Tennant can step up. He’s got the two best guards beside him, a new hard-nosed running back and one of the best leaders in the game. We’ll be fine either way.
Mark Ingram-OROY
Cam Jordan-DROY
New Orleans Saints-2012 Super Bowl Champs
good job mr juge
its just that for love of the game, has a new rider.. the dollars and sense of it all.. a prolific fan equates the $$$ in his hopes for the team of thier choice’s upcoming season.. not that this slows one down from pumping nfl and blood through thier viens at an almost equal amount, but it definately makes me shake my head and think “really”..
remember dan marino
late in his career he wanted to give alot of his salary towards some oline help.. he was not allowed by nfl.. he was crippled soon after

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