Injuries? "The Fever"? : Why The Saints Had Trouble Running In 2010

Assuming we lose Bush, none of our RBs really require bracket coverage. Jimmy Graham is only in his second year. Do you think that the Saints are going to feed Graham balls until the defenses respect it bracket him? Or do the Saints shift more into a heavy running game with Ingram, and get the SS to creep up?

Add to that all the injuries we incurred at the position after Reggie went down, and you’ll see our offense in 2010 was simply the only thing it could have been; running the ball more wouldn’t have helped.

False. Running the ball would have resulted in yardage gained in most cases. That an improvement over incomplete passes, interceptions and sacks, one of which happened 37.6% of the time they passed. Only 3.34 yds per offensive play are necessary to move the sticks. Had the running game been as ineffective as passing game on any given play, the Saints would have gained 0 yards or less on 37.6% of their 380 carries, or 143 times. That would mean that their 1519 yards rushing was netted on just 237 carries, an average of 6.41 ypc. If you’re running the ball roughly 50% of the time — as any NFL team should be — that equates to 1.5 carries for 3 downs to move the sticks. Eliminate the 37.6% waste and you’re left with 0.564 carries at 6.41 ypc. That’s 3.62 ypc, i.e., greater than 3.34 ypc, STILL pulling their weight on a per play basis. The running game obviously was not that ineffective, as they averaged 4.0 on the season. I’m simply illustrating the foolishness in thinking that running more wouldn’t help. Even if we had zero tight ends and two running backs, the numbers dictate three WRs would be on the field. You can’t stack the box in that situation, unless the offense is one dimensional in terms of utilization, not necessarily effectiveness. If you’re running and passing the ball roughly the same amount of time, you’re simply not one dimensional. Abandon one or the other and you are.

I agree that we need more rushing attack than in 2010, more balance. But I also believe that we need Reggie to keep throwing off defenses or confusing them. If Reggie goes, we still need someone like him to create problems for the defense, Ingram may be the man. I think if we have an ordinary running game with no fooling the defense, like Reggie does, it won’t be as good as 2009, IMO.

I think Jimmy Graham will get bracket coverage. In a very limited amount of playing time he had 31 catches and 5 TD’s. Some of those catches were freak nasty too. Teams already know what Jimmy Graham is and what he’ll likely be. So I think if they don’t start out putting bracket coverage on him, it’s only a matter of time. He’s already got some tape on him, and you can bet with all the free time coaches have had, they’ve done plenty of advance scouting.

As for RB, I still think the Saints will try to keep Reggie because of this purpose. If Reggie goes, there is no other RB on our roster who will garner bracket coverage. The advantage of having Reggie is that the defense declares what position he is by how they defend him— put him in motion and you know pre-snap. If they are treating him as a viable threat and giving him the bracket coverage or putting a Nickle Corner on him, another WR will have the 1 on 1 and the running game will have one less man in the box. If they decide he’s a RB and don’t roll the coverage to him, he becomes the preferred option in the passing game.

Any other RB (on our roster) is treated as a RB all times. You’ll never see a Nickle Corner covering Ingram or Pierre. You won’t see two defenders occupied with their route either. Say what you want about Reggie’s production. I believe he was over-valued when he came out of the draft, and now he’s under-valued (in the court of public opinion).

As far as “fixing” the running game, I agree with Cold Pizza that the running game needs more of a commitment. Having all your backs healthy helps. Especially with a versatile Pierre and ingram. Last year, we all wanted to see more touces from Ivory, but once everyone was hurt, you just about knew when Ivory was in the game he was going to run— defenses didn’t respect his pass catching ability or blocking ability and pretty much figured on run pre-snap.

We might not be able to stretch a defense (consistantly) the same as we had in 2009, but a healthy stable of our top backs and a good interior run blocking should go a long way, even if we lose Reggie.

you just about knew when Ivory was in the game he was going to run— defenses didn’t respect his pass catching ability or blocking ability and pretty much figured on run pre-snap.

That’s what I was getting at regarding formations. Balance isn’t just about running roughly the same number of times you pass. It’s running roughly the same number of times you pass regardless of formation. But that’s more like Balance 2.0. I’d like to see them master 1.0 first.

Payton is known for “self scouting”. You just have to remember that Ivory and virtually every other option at RB (after Pierre and Reggie went down) were new to the team, not having that offseason and previous years in the system, there was simply not enough time to learn the intricacies of Sean Payton’s offense on the fly. Pirre was on the roster for almost the entire year before he was versed enough to get in the game and contribute on every play— Translation— before Payton and the rest of the offense could TRUST Pierre to do his job.

McAllister was lost for the year in month 1. The Bush as featureback experiment apparently wasn’t working, and Stecker just wasn’t starter material— just someone that could fill in and get you out of a pinch. That said, midway through the season, I (and many others who paid attention in training camp) were hoping Pierre would see extended playing time. He started to get a few touches in the last half of the year, but ultimately didn’t start until the season finale against Chicago.

When asked why it took this long to get Pierre into the game as feauture back (after a hundred yard recieving and rushing debut), both Payton and Pierre cited the “learning of pass protections” and other assignments as the reason.

So yes, Pierre had those players on the roster ahead of him, but there was a point midway through the year where no one was really getting it done in the crunch on a consistant basis— a perfect time for Pierre to step in. Only they couldn’t yet trust him with all of the assignments Payton demands of a RB in his offense. It truly took most of the year for Pierre to learn.

Pierre and Antonio Pittman weren’t brought in to be “the guy”, so I can’t say how much more reps and learning opportunities they didn’t get that Ingram likely will get.

Which was exactly why many who saw him in training camp were screaming for Payton to put him in much sooner. Yet being a runner is only 1 of the things a running back has to do in Sean’s offense, and if you can’t do the other tasks, then every time the you are in the game the defense will have a pretty good indication that it is a run— kind of like what happened when Chris Ivory was in the game.

That was his first START, not his first time in the game. My entire argument on this aspect was that Payton did not want to START Pierre until he could be trusted with all the pass protections, blitz pick-ups, and intricacies of his offense, otherwise he’d be tipping his hand anytime Pierre went in. I’m not making that up, look it up.

What you are calling “from the start” was the last game of the season— a season in which he was on the roster the entire time, and a season in which we needed help in the running game as quick as Deuce tore his ACL. I’m not taking anything away from Pierre— it’s just his limited touches and time with the team as an UDFA limited his opportunity to learn ALL aspects of his role in quick manner, which was exactly why you didn’t see him making a start until week 17.

Chris Ivory had 137 carries for 716 yards (5.2 ypc) and 5 TD’s. He had 1 catch for 17 yards. Pretty much everyone knew that when Ivory was in the game, chances are it was a run. Towards the end of the year when Ivory started getting comfortable with his assignments, Payton passed with him lined up at RB, but during his first 8 weeks, you’d normally see an experienced vet like Betts in there on third downs and such BECAUSE they were experienced enough to pick up the protections quickly.

I do think Sean Payton’s offense is a little more complicated than Mike McCarthy’s offense a decade ago. McCarthy’s offense is more complicated today than it was ten years ago— they evolve. Sean uses so many different personnel packages and formations and sends so many in motion. Defenses are more complicated too. Blitzes are better disguised (as well as coverages), and defenders can stand up and run around in circles pre snap. It becomes very hard identifying who’s the “mike”, who’s rushing, who’s playing the role of DE or the role of LB, ect.

I would have LOVED to have seen more of IVORY (not any of the others) when he was healthy, but he did have a few costly fumbles early and keeping him in there for passes was a detriment to the offense (at the time).

As for JuJu and Betts, I think Payton simply didn’t trust them enough.

Julius had 48 carries for 193 yards (4.0 ypc) and 17 receptions for 59 yards (3.5 ypr)

Betts had 45 carries for 150 yards (3.3 ypc) and 23 receptions for 141 yards (6.1 ypr).

So of those two, Julius was the better runner and Betts was the better pass catcher, yet they both did enough of each to not be pegged as a trend.

However, the production of Jones and Betts stunk when compared to 2009 numbers. They had the same offensive line. The only difference was WHO was running and catching out of the backfield. In 2009, both Reggie AND Pierre had over 5 yards per carry and 7 yards per reception with 40+ catches each. Mike Bell had 3.8 ypc in the role of Chris Ivory— pounder who doesn’t catch much.

So the comparison to 2000 when you say

They continued to run the ball at roughly the same clip for the remainder of the year

I agree with you about a rookie or first time player on a new team learning plays. But Pierre was a rookie and you had expierienced backs ahead of him, that’s why he didn’t start. It sounds like you’re saying it’s easier to learn a running play than a pass play. It’s not, it’s the same. Pierre knew the pass plays also but he also had 3 veteran backs that knew the plays also and Payton figured he’d just keep playing the veterans as long as the job was getting done. Finally, he got his chance.

Use David Thomas as an up-back, thereby giving the appearance of a running play based on formation. Occasionally run it out of that formation. Occasionally pass it out of that formation. You sure as hell aren’t running, if you’re employing an empty backfield on 1st-and-10! I don’t care how p*** poor your RBs are. That’s not doing anything to throw off an opposing defense.

Gotcha.

that did not stoop to name-calling or belittling.

I admit that I mostly skimmed the comments, but am I right?

Before turning pro, I’m sure Pierre had expierience at catching a football as well as running with one. I’m pretty sure he didn’t always run the ball throughout his playing days. And I bet if you asked him about the plays, he’d probably say theres no difference. The difference would be is all the running and passing combinations he has to remember which are quite alot. But I think if he forgets one, someone will tighten him up on it before leaving the huddle.

Yeah, he’s got good hands for a RB. though I wouldn’t go as far as “some of the best hands on the team”. Catching the ball on a screen (where you are standing still) or a swing pass is a lot easier than running a sluggo. Pierre does his job well, but if I had to pick one thing he was a very big liability at as a rookie (and arguably as a pro) is his blitz pick-ups and pass protections.

While I don’t think Sproles will draw the same coverage as a route runner, I do believe Payton will be able to use him more consistantly in more facets of the offense without having to worry about taking a loss. If anything, Sproles does his job and does it well. He knows he’s a niche/role player, and he’s comfortable without. He doesn’t play outside of his role while trying to make something happen. He plays smart and he’s always focused.

Same match-up problems? No. There isn’t a RB with Reggie’s agility/quickness/acceleration who runs routes as well as Reggie. Sproles may run good routes, but I doubt he’s got the same boom (ankle breaking change of direction) you’ll see in Reggie. But Sproles does have better inside running ability and he has more focus and turns the ball over much less.

Conclusion— we lost in one area but gained in a few others.