Forecast: America won't love the Saints after 2011
This is the last year America will think the Saints are warm and cuddly.
Everybody loved the Saints in 2009. It was a feel good caramel sundae filled with the post Katrina rebirth of New Orleans, Drew Brees, The Ying-Yang twins and rooting for the perennial underdog. America loves underdogs but they hate dynasties. Don’t believe me?
9 months ago
Malbrough
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I guess I shouldn't be surprised....
I disagree with almost everything in that article.
The cornerbacks will … cause the most yelling at your TV.
Not unless Jenkins and/or Harper get injured. (The depth at safety, btw, is the one thing we do agree on.) Neither Porter nor Greer are shutdown corners, nor are they big strong bump and run kind of guys. They are, however, two very good man-to-man coverage guys who ultimately rely on help from the safeties, especially Jenkins (and previously Sharper). Porter in particular knows that he can take a chance at jumping a route when he’s got Jenkins covering behind him. When he’s not so comfortable, Porter has always played off his man, sometimes aggravatingly so, because he would rather give up a first down than a touch down. Greer is more aggressive, and without solid help from a safety over the top, he has shown that he can be baited and taken advantage of. So far, all this may sound like I’m agreeing with Marlborough. But I’m not, because there is nothing new here! Any Saints fan that has closely watched the two guys over the last 3 years knows all this already. The Saints have a very good CB tandem, but they don’t have Revis and Cromartie. What they have is Jenkins. As long as he is playing, Porter and Greer will continue to look really good.
Darren Sproles will be everything we ever wanted Reggie Bush to be as far as special teams and receiving.
When Sproles can dig out an underthrown screen pass, spin and make defenders miss, and finish by leaping 20 feet into the endzone, I’ll agree. Until then….
By October all the teeth mashing and angst over the offensive line will be forgotten.
Nothing would make me happier. Unfortunately, I predict the Saints o-line will give up more sacks than they have since 2005.
Backup safety will haunt Gregg Williams’ dreams.
And give the rest of us nightmares (the younger fans) and chronic heart conditions (the older fans).
Lance Moore and Devery Henderson will be the top receivers.
With the Payton/Brees offense, it’s hard to predict from one week to the next which receiver is going to light it up. But one thing has been consistent since 2006 – Colston is a perennial 1000 yard receiver. He’s only failed to hit that mark one year (760 yards in 2008), and Devery still barely had more yards (793). Meachem has steadily matured and improved every year, and if Colston does have significant injury issues, Meachem and Graham will be the go-to guys.
If the Saints haven’t signed Drew Brees to an extension by November they’ll regret it.
I don’t think they’d regret it until they have to put a franchise tag on him, which wouldn’t happen until March of 2012.
This is the last year America will think the Saints are warm and cuddly. … America … hates dynasties.
Both of those may be true, but the implication that the Saints are considered a dynasty by the end of this season is not. I can certainly get on board with the idea of the Saints making another run at a championship, but two rings in three years doesn’t quite constitute a dynasty. No one mistook the Broncos for a dynasty, and they did it in back-to-back years. The Saints will need to do a lot more than win one more championship to reach those lofty heights from which everyone is so happy to see the Patriots fall.
Dolphins 24-17
Marlborough, you have officially lost your mind.
Redskins 20-19
I may have as well, because I agree that the Redskins are going to win in week 1. More than that, I think they will be one of the toughest non-playoff teams in the NFC this year, and may even challenge for a wildcard spot.
It's been over 2 months...
And I still get that hankering.
INGRAMANIA equals LOMBARDI 2012
by cajuncommando58 on Sep 7, 2011 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
lol... can I offer you some gum?
"It ain't about how hard you hit, it is about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward, how much can you take and KEEP MOVING FORWARD. That's how winning is done!" - Rocky
Cinnamon works better for smoking urges.
Goes pretty good with a cup of coffee too.
INGRAMANIA equals LOMBARDI 2012
by cajuncommando58 on Sep 7, 2011 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
When Sproles can dig out an underthrown screen pass, spin and make defenders miss, and finish by leaping 20 feet into the endzone, I’ll agree. Until then….
Does he get five years to do it? Can he dance in place and run out of bounds the rest of the time?
Wanna say something? Sign up! It's free!
by Dave Cariello on Sep 6, 2011 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Does he get five years to do it?
no – he’s been in the NFL longer than Reggie – and scored 1/3 as many TDs.
my bad
I did a quick check and only looked at rushing TDs. Overall, it’s 32 for Reggie, 22 for Darren.
It’s also $16 million for Reggie, $4 million for Sproles. He may not be the better back(he is, though), but he was definitely the better value.
"The Colts were punching at it and grabbing for it, trying to get it out. But I didn't care if they broke all my fingers. There was absolutely no way in the world I was going to let go of that ball. That was our ball.''-Chris Reis
by FuSoYa on Sep 7, 2011 9:30 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Who's who...
A. Who am I?
4.6 yards per carry (rushing)
9.6 yards per catch (receiving)
Longest punt return = 77 yards
Longest kickoff return = 103 yards
7404 total return yards (PR + KO)
2 punt return TD’s
2 kickoff return TD’s
B. Who am I?
4.0 yards per carry (rushing)
7.3 yards per catch (receiving)
Longest punt return = 71 yards
Longest kickoff return = 32 yards
752 total return yards (PR + KO)
4 punt return TD’s
0 kickoff return TD’s
I couldn’t find consistent fumble information – ESPN and PFR had very different numbers, and neither one included fumbles in return game.
ESPN suggested that Mr. A had 2 fumbles, while Mr. B had 14… and that doesn’t include KO and punt returns.
"It ain't about how hard you hit, it is about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward, how much can you take and KEEP MOVING FORWARD. That's how winning is done!" - Rocky
A is Sproles, B is Reggie
Mark Ingram-OROY
Cam Jordan-DROY
New Orleans Saints-2012 Super Bowl Champs
Sproles is better, IMO, and as a matter of statistical fact. That was my point. He also made room for a player like Franklin on the roster, and/or for contract talks with Brees this offseason, which I consider an upside, as well. Lateral move, at worst, in terms of skill-set. Great move, in terms of team finance.
"The Colts were punching at it and grabbing for it, trying to get it out. But I didn't care if they broke all my fingers. There was absolutely no way in the world I was going to let go of that ball. That was our ball.''-Chris Reis
by FuSoYa on Sep 7, 2011 10:49 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
again, not especially relevant to the topic at hand
but for the record, Reggie has missed 20, Darren 18.
agreed on just about everything above
But Reggie’s salary, rushing woes, tap-dancing at the line on draw plays, etc., has nothing to do with Ralph’s or my comments.
Darren Sproles will be everything we ever wanted Reggie Bush to be as far as special teams and receiving. (emphasis added)
Reggie has 4 punts returned for TDs in 5 years. Sproles has 2 in 6 years. I’m not counting kickoffs because 1) Reggie didn’t return kickoffs, and 2) from what we saw in preseason, it looks like Roby will continue to do so for the Saints.
Overall, I’m elated that we got Sproles for less than half what Reggie was making (though it does seem they are paying him more than what they were willing to pay Reggie, which is odd.) But the fact is, he is not as productive in the return game and Reggie is a bigger danger to defensive schemes in the passing game.
Any chance you can find out how many fumbles both of them had on Punt Returns?
I couldn’t find the info, and I’d love to know how many Sproles had.
"It ain't about how hard you hit, it is about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward, how much can you take and KEEP MOVING FORWARD. That's how winning is done!" - Rocky
I have no idea
But I’d guess you are probably right in implying in that Reggie had more, at least as a percentage of opportunities. Whether he had significantly more, and more importantly, how costly were they, though, is debatable.
I’m only slightly implying that.
I really do want to know what Darren’s numbers are. I’ll have to ask one of my friends in SD.
"It ain't about how hard you hit, it is about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward, how much can you take and KEEP MOVING FORWARD. That's how winning is done!" - Rocky
The numbers that count are
The games missed verus the game played. The rest of the stats are skewed for both because both played on pass first teams. Sproles more so that Bush. IMO
INGRAMANIA equals LOMBARDI 2012
by cajuncommando58 on Sep 7, 2011 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Reggie has missed a lot more games
as a percentage of time in the league. I wasn’t arguing otherwise, nor was Ralph saying anything about Darren being more reliable in this area.
I forgot that it's listed in the players' career stats on nfl.com
Reggie has 5 fumbles on 92 punt returns (5.4%), Darren has 7 fumbles on 117 punt returns (6.0%). Close enough, but Reggie does have the edge.
correction
Darren has 7 fumbles on 114 returns = 6.1%.
The more I think about this, the more disturbing I find it. :(
OK
now who has the most returns for 6 points. Then figure some kinda correlation point/fumble//attempts. When you get all that done we’ll run it by CP.
INGRAMANIA equals LOMBARDI 2012
by cajuncommando58 on Sep 7, 2011 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
i'm no journalist,
but this was a refreshing change from duncan. accurate or not, maybe i should be reading wwl.com more often
Don't eat the cheese
America doesn't hate dynasties, they hate cheaters
America loves underdogs but they hate dynasties. Don’t believe me? In 2001 nothing was more warm and cuddly in post 9/11 America than the team first New England Patriots and their sixth round scrappy backup quarterback Tom Brady. Against the Rams in the Super Bowl they ran onto the field as a team instead of announcing their starting lineup. How could we not love them forever?
Fast forward 10 years, Bill Belichick might as well be Darth Vader while Tom Brady is both hated and envied for his rock star life and a super model wife.
13.
Grossman: Sup, you insulin needing bitch! The sex cannon has arrived! Now get the hell out of my locker room, you chinless mother fucker!
I can't speak for America
But I definitely hate dynasties. If the Saints somehow won 2 more SB’s in the next few years, I might have to root for the Seahawks until Brees retires.
"The Colts were punching at it and grabbing for it, trying to get it out. But I didn't care if they broke all my fingers. There was absolutely no way in the world I was going to let go of that ball. That was our ball.''-Chris Reis
by FuSoYa on Sep 7, 2011 9:33 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah I agree. I called him Bill Bellicheat and the team the Cheatriots all through that 2007 season and I twisted my ankle cheering when the Giants scored that last touchdown (no, I kid you not). But that was just because they were cheaters and were trying to thumb their nose at everybody. After they got their just rewards — no team is ever going to be more notorious for going 18-1 unless they cheat even worse — they’re the Patriots again. Bellicheat still gets a little slam from time to time tho.
Thats funny, too, because in 2001, I was rooting so hard for the Pats to unseat what looked like a dynasty in the making in the Rams. Within a couple years, I wanted Brady’s career to be cut short by an irreparably broken pinky. It was really, REALLY hard to root for the Giants in that SB(I’ll never forgive them for the ’05 “home game” vs NO), but I was happy to see the Pats go down. The fact that an undefeated season apparently made it okay to be caught cheating just made it all the sweeter.
"The Colts were punching at it and grabbing for it, trying to get it out. But I didn't care if they broke all my fingers. There was absolutely no way in the world I was going to let go of that ball. That was our ball.''-Chris Reis
by FuSoYa on Sep 7, 2011 10:56 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Really Ralph?
You rubbished the team after Houston and now you are picking to win in February? WHAT HAS CHANGED OVER THE LAST THREE WEEKS?
To paraphrase Wang, who has been having the same mood swings, this is Message Board Guy Material – and some….
I am not sending any hate emails not-to-worry… but this is amost embarassing…
Bring the metal....
My reason for picking them to win the Super Bowl is because I don’t see Green Bay winning again, I don’t believe in Michael Vick to ever win anything significant and thought about picking Atlanta but my blind hatred of the Falcons wouldn’t allow me to. So who’s left in the NFC?
And the message board comment would hurt my soul if I had one.
"Saints fans should be sending Paul Tagliabue primo Hollywood quality hookers monthly for the remainder of his life"---Andrew Juge
So the Saints to the bowl, and yet you can’t bring yourself to pick them over Green Bay? By default they are the team we must beat (potentially twice) to get there. Saints win 35-27 is what you meant to say.
I personally think the “defending champ home\season opener” magic is too tough to break at this point, especially with two teams who look so evenly matched on paper. My feelings have little to do with how good or bad the Saints look. That game is just designed to be won by the home team. The Saints aren’t better than the Packers enough to overcome that.
"The Colts were punching at it and grabbing for it, trying to get it out. But I didn't care if they broke all my fingers. There was absolutely no way in the world I was going to let go of that ball. That was our ball.''-Chris Reis
by FuSoYa on Sep 7, 2011 9:42 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
One crazy bounce of the football could mean the difference in winning and losing… (Ask Aaron Rogers)
The magic/energy/mojo/whatever might be there, but it doesn’t guarantee a win.
"It ain't about how hard you hit, it is about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward, how much can you take and KEEP MOVING FORWARD. That's how winning is done!" - Rocky
crazy bounce?
more like being dragged to the ground by your facemask.
13.
Grossman: Sup, you insulin needing bitch! The sex cannon has arrived! Now get the hell out of my locker room, you chinless mother fucker!
Very true... It was certainly a facemask that wasn't called.
It sucks when obvious penalties like that aren’t called.
(And, he should have let it hit the ground… it would have likely been called incomplete.)
But, it does show how one bounce can change the outcome of a game.
…like the one off on of GB’s received on MNF several years ago. (I forgot who, I just remember having money on that game.)
"It ain't about how hard you hit, it is about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward, how much can you take and KEEP MOVING FORWARD. That's how winning is done!" - Rocky
You mean that Antonio Freeman catch? "He did what?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yAgR4a89H4
13.
Grossman: Sup, you insulin needing bitch! The sex cannon has arrived! Now get the hell out of my locker room, you chinless mother fucker!
Agreed
I’ll be rooting hard for an upset tomorrow, but I won’t be disappointed with a close loss to the Packers. A big loss with lots of mistakes and turnovers I’ll be very disappointed with, but a close loss won’t bother me. The deck is truly stacked against us tomorrow. Still, despite the past trend of the champs always winning the opening game, I’m hoping that maybe all of that lockout work Drew and the guys did may pay off against the Pack, who did nothing until the lockout was over. I’m hoping Rodgers and Co. will show some rust tomorrow while a more polished and motivated Saints team takes advantage.
"As soon as Tony (Dungy) said we had no chance, I knew we had 'em right where we wanted 'em"--Coach Sean Payton right after Super Bowl XLIV with the Lombardi Trophy firmly in hand. WHO DAT!!
by David "Satch" Kelly on Sep 7, 2011 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
If they are going to lose
I think I’d rather it be a big loss due to the Saints playing sloppy. That can be fixed. If they play their best and still can’t beat a team that had zero offseason workouts, I’ll be pretty pessimistic about their chances for the postseason.
Wrong
America doesn’t hate Dynasties, we hate QB’s with Justin Bieber haircuts. I never really disliked NE for being a good team, but sometimes seeing the same old thing gets tiresome. It was like ’Really, New England in the SB again? Wow boring."
my thoughts exactly on the Steelers in the 70s
I hated them so much…. Of course, some of that was also because the Saints were sooo bad during those years.
Once they were knocked off their pedestal, plus 10 years of living in Pittsburgh, eased my anger and I grew to respect and even cheer for them occasionally.
Good words, Ralph
Your predictions may turn out right, or wrong, who knows? But they’re always plausible and it’s quite enjoyable to read your turns of phrases.
Tomorrow night is football night!!
WIN NOW
WINGRAMANIA!!!!
thanks Hans, the season preview is the column I hate writing the most now because it’s hard to make interesting predictions without sounding like a troll.
I know in October we’ll be talking about something right now that would seem crazy. I mean who thought last year Chris Ivory would be feature RB by Thanksgiving?
"Saints fans should be sending Paul Tagliabue primo Hollywood quality hookers monthly for the remainder of his life"---Andrew Juge
holy crap
DAVE!!! He worked the reply button to perfection!!!!
Nice stroke, Ralph.
WIN NOW
WINGRAMANIA!!!!
by Hans Petersen on Sep 7, 2011 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Did someone say "stroke"!?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RDOBhSoNuM
"It ain't about how hard you hit, it is about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward, how much can you take and KEEP MOVING FORWARD. That's how winning is done!" - Rocky
That’s a hell of a lot better than Satriani. Except for that video when he revealed his true sexuality. NTTAWWT.
Some will rob you with a six gun, some with a fountain pen.
The comments are hilarious.
@1:29 I like how he switches from a gay shirt to a gayer shirt.
Some will rob you with a six gun, some with a fountain pen.
I like the song, but the guitar playing is NOTHING compared to Joe.
And, I bet you $10,000.00 Billy would agree with me.
"It ain't about how hard you hit, it is about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward, how much can you take and KEEP MOVING FORWARD. That's how winning is done!" - Rocky
Our October surprise this year will be....
Meachem for MVP – 800 yards receiving and 7 TDs by Halloween
WIN NOW
WINGRAMANIA!!!!
by Hans Petersen on Sep 7, 2011 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions
or on the flip side...
What’s wrong with Colston?
WIN NOW
WINGRAMANIA!!!!
by Hans Petersen on Sep 7, 2011 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I was with you up to Drew BREE$$$$$!!!
Two words: franchise tag
Mickey don’t care.
Some will rob you with a six gun, some with a fountain pen.
stuj, I’m not saying he’s leaving but you can’t tell me the Saints wouldn’t be better off signing him now then say in February after 4000 yds, 35 TDs, and another Super Bowl MVP?
If they do it now they save 25 million if Saints win another Super Bowl.
"Saints fans should be sending Paul Tagliabue primo Hollywood quality hookers monthly for the remainder of his life"---Andrew Juge
and he did it again!!!
nice stroke, Ralph.
WIN NOW
WINGRAMANIA!!!!
by Hans Petersen on Sep 7, 2011 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions
plus this new nickname for Stu has a nice ring to it
rhymes with “Juge”
WIN NOW
WINGRAMANIA!!!!
by Hans Petersen on Sep 7, 2011 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions
i sounded it out more like stooge
i wonder which of the 3 he is lol
Now that we have a 2011 season let's win the Superbowl!
Ralph, I like your process of elimination in the NFC even though we differ in some instances. At least you came up with a legitimate reason for putting the Saints in the Super Bowl as opposed to blind homerism (or maybe it’s just well disguised).
Speaking of blind, there’s a good reason that the Falcons aren’t going anywhere near the Super Bowl, so your dismissal of them doesn’t have to rely strictly on “blind hatred”.
Atlanta’s 13-3 season was nothing more than a typical mid 90’s Kansas City Chiefs mirage. The Falcons failed in “their moment”, TWICE, to be recognized as the top dog in the NFL against the Saints on Monday night, and again as the best in the NFC in the playoffs against the Packers.
Compare that to the Saints 13-3 season in 2009 when they seized “their moment” on Monday night against the Patriots, and then answered all their critics in their playoff game by killing the Cardinals.
See how completely different two 13-3 seasons can be? Folks don’t think about that when they’re falling all over themselves picking the Falcons to win the NFC or the Super Bowl based on their record last year.
Also, Matt Ryan has not shown any hint of being a Big-Time, First-Tier quarterback capable of leading a team past a strong NFC lead by the Saints and Packers. If the NFC were a weak conference, he’d have a good shot, but not right now. He has good regular season numbers, but his performances in big games are sub-par.
Notice I said, his “performances” in big games, not his won-loss record (also sub-par) which is a measure of team success.
Yes, the Ravens won with Trent Dilfer and the Bucs won with Brad Johnson, but until the Falcons can field a defense the caliber of those two teams, no one should expect the same result. Not in an NFC conference where the last two Super Bowl champions both have such high-powered offenses.
I've got two words for ya.....Whit Bissell
by BewareofDog on Sep 7, 2011 10:31 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I completely agree and I just feel like Atlanta flushed 13-3 down the toilet and I read on the Biglead that since 1980 32 teams have won at least 13 games in a year and only two managed to repeat it.
Plus never winning in the playoffs hangs over you like an Ax. No matter what you do it’s always, “You can’t win in the playoffs.” The Saints had it under Mora. I think Atlanta will be good but more in the 8-11 wins good.
"Saints fans should be sending Paul Tagliabue primo Hollywood quality hookers monthly for the remainder of his life"---Andrew Juge
Mark Sanchez holds the NFL record for road playoff wins so you’d trade him for Brees straight up right?
"Saints fans should be sending Paul Tagliabue primo Hollywood quality hookers monthly for the remainder of his life"---Andrew Juge
Nope…simply pointing out what’s good for the goose. Apparently though…you missed the point.
"Winter is coming"
I just think Atlanta will be hearing alot more about not winning in the playoffs this year than Drew Brees will about not winning a road playoff game.
If the Falcons lose in Chicago we’ll probably get a whole week of “Can Matt Ryan and Atlanta win big games?”
It would be delightful
"Saints fans should be sending Paul Tagliabue primo Hollywood quality hookers monthly for the remainder of his life"---Andrew Juge
Let's just stay outa Chicago for the playoffs, please
Has to be the worst late season field in the NFL.
INGRAMANIA equals LOMBARDI 2012
by cajuncommando58 on Sep 7, 2011 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
How about we stay indoors for the playoffs? (you know… where professional sports should be played)
"It ain't about how hard you hit, it is about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward, how much can you take and KEEP MOVING FORWARD. That's how winning is done!" - Rocky
It's now official if anyone still had a doubt - Peter King is crazy.
He picks the Falcons to beat the Chargers in the Super Bowl but picks the Saints to win the NFC South Division. He envisions the wildcard Falcons winning at Lambeau prior to beating the Saints in the NFC Championship in the Dome.
Perhaps he forgot they couldn’t beat either team last year when they were playing at home.
They did beat the Packers but point well taken. Green Bay hasn’t been perfect at home in the playoffs but I doubt a Dome team beats them if the Packers have a week off to get ready. Hell that includes the Saints.
It’s why this week is so big. Home field advantage in January is in play.
"Saints fans should be sending Paul Tagliabue primo Hollywood quality hookers monthly for the remainder of his life"---Andrew Juge
It’s now official if anyone still had a doubt – Peter King is crazy.
Was there ever any doubt?
INGRAMANIA equals LOMBARDI 2012
by cajuncommando58 on Sep 7, 2011 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
So...
they’re an unbeatable juggernaut (winning two road playoff games in very hostile environment) who can’t win their own division.
yeah.. right.
"It ain't about how hard you hit, it is about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward, how much can you take and KEEP MOVING FORWARD. That's how winning is done!" - Rocky
And one who hasn't won....
…any playoff game yet with its current QB, whether it be hostile environments or in the comforting arms of fleeing fans in the Georgia Dome once the last slaughter there was obvious.
"I am a Saints player. Look, sir" Patrick Robinson
by CrazyforColston on Sep 7, 2011 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
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