Let The Debate Continue....And The Saints Roll The Niners Anyway (Responding To Niner Trolls)
I'm more of a lurker and sometimes commentor here...long time Saints fan since the 1970's...but I felt the need to post this after reading all of the smack laid down by certain 49'ers trollers that the Saints might as well not suit up and play Saturday, because they are going to get beat down by the best run defense in the NFL combined with the home field advantage of grassy (and occasionally muddy) Candlestick Park (or whatever corporate entity it is called right now).
Indeed, by listening to some of our finest prognisticators, the Saints don't have anywhere near a chance, because they apparently are only as good as the artificial turf and enclosed managed air of the Mercedes Benz Superdome, and the second they step foot outdoors into actual green grass, they will be rendered useless against the 49er defense.
And...they are rather quick to quote the debacle in Seattle last year, where Marshawn Lynch had his rumble through the broken tackles of the entire Saints defense, or the game this year against the St. Louis Rams where Stephen Jackson ran all over the D while the offensive line broke down completely causing Drew Brees to throw INT's and Pick-6's galore.
So, why should Saturday's match up be any different?? After the jump, I'll show you why it is, and why I still think the Saints will roll the Niners.
First off: the Saints can run the football this year. Oh, can they run the football this year. Wait, you say...this team has broken almost every single passing record known to mankind, yet you say that their running game is a dominant factor?? H**L TO THE YES. This is not a Run-and-Shoot team we are talking about, folks, nor is it a "pass to set up the run" team that relies only on draws and shovel passes. Pierre Thomas, Chris Ivory, and (when he was healthy) Mark Ingram are piledrivers that can bust you in the mouth and make you pay for attempted tackles, and they are averaging a sick 5+ yards per carry...good for 7th in the league and the best running team left in the NFC playoffs. And, then there is this guy named Darren Sproles who is essentially Reggie Bush with maturity and speed to boot...
This isn't discounting the strength of the Niners' rushing D (2nd in the league in yardage, first in rushing TD's allowed, only one 100-yard rusher, only 2 rushing TD's allowed). But, the Saints are one of the few teams that can challenge the Niners' strength man for man and also play keep away when they need it. If they can generate some first downs on the ground and force the Niners to give them respect, that will more than open up things down the road for the deep passing game via playaction...and if the Niners overplay the run, Marques Colston, Robert Meachem, Devery Henderson, Jimmy Graham, and (perhaps, if he's healthy enough to play) Lance Moore will be running all over their secondary with impunity.
Which brings us to...:
The Saints can protect Brees this year. Yes, there have been isolated incidents when Breesus throws the inadvertent pass that gets picked (when the defenders don't have hands of stone, like the Lions), or he decides to throw into double coverage because 9 out of 10 times, Colston, Graham, or Sproles finds a way to come up with the ball and move the chains. But, for the most part, the line quartet quintet of Jerome Bushrod, Carl Nicks, Brian de la Puente, Jahari Evans, and Zach Strief have done their job in keeping Brees' jersey clean, and the help of "H-back eligible" Pat McQuinstan and the chip blocking of Graham and Sproles have only doubled the protective blanket. Unless the Niners go to junk coverages or dial up blitzes to rush Brees, their only other chance is to simply play keep away with their offense...and that includes scoring TD's with those long, possession draining drives rather than mere FG's. They need to hold the Saints below 20 (half their average) to have any shot of winning...and even in Seattle last year and in losses to Tampa Bay and St. Louis this year, the Saints scored at least 25.
Oh, and did I mention that passing offense?? Yes, a muddy turf might slow them down, but this isn't the old "go vertical" Raiders offense of old. Sean Payton's offense relies on multiple formations and creating mismatchups where you are forced to play absolutely perfect D or get burnt slowly by the grind of chain movers. You may choose to place your best LB on Graham and spy him, and then place another spy on Sproles....but then how do you account for Colston and Henderson/Meachem and Moore working the seams?? Or, you may blitz to your heart's content...only to see PT or Ivory fly past your behinds and Jahari Evans creaming your defender on the screen pass. And then there's the threat of Jedd Collins on the dump-offs, Sproles running between the tackles, even Brees taking off and running to move the sticks...is that enough for 'ya for now, Frisco fan??
Oh, but wait again, you say, NIner Fan?? What about the Saints defense, which absolutely SUCKS so bad that they gave up big yardage numbers and darn near lost so many games??
OK, so you have a point there. Just a point. Gregg Williams' D isn't exactly the Ravens at their prime; they are capable of darn near losing plenty of games due to their not getting enough pressure on QBs even with the variety of blitzes they use, and they aren't nearly the ball hawks they were in their 2009 Super Bowl year. (The Niners, by contrast, are the league leaders in takeaway margin.) But, you don't have to be perfect when your offense is piling up 40 points a game, just stop the other guys and force punts..and of late, the Saints have been doing just that. (OK, so Calvin Johnson went off on them for a record 211 yards, but it's not as if Megatron's an average receiver that doesn't eat cornerbacks for lunch.) Not to mention, the Saints D has been pretty successful in holding down the opponent's leading weapon this year; ask Maurice Jones-Drew, Adrian Peterson, Cam Newton, and Chris Johnson.
The 49ers basically are a slightly above average offense that complements their defense; they don't make mistakes, they control the ball, and they are patient enough to settle for field goals. In effect, they are like the Atlanta Falcons of last year, except that Matt Ryan is just a tad better than Alex Smith (that whiff last week against the Giants notwithstanding), and Roddy White and Julio Jones are much better than Michael Crabtree and Mike Ginn. Vernon Davis has been a decent TE, but probably not at the level of a Tony Gonzalez, whom the Saints handled twice.. And we all know what happened to #1 seeded Atlanta last year when Aaron Rodgers stepped into the Georgia Dome...right???
If the Saints D remains patient and is able to stuff Frank Gore into less than 100 yards rushing and keep Frisco out of the red zone, they may be able to put it all on Alex Smith's hands...and considering that ASmith only averages 190 yds/game and has been hit with 44 sacks this year, he is very much vulnerable to having a bad game. If he also decides to turn the ball over with INTs that the Saints defenders actually catch, then all the worse for Frisco.
And what about the supposed awesome 49er advantage in special teams?? Gee, don't they forget that Darren Sproles has returned punts for touchdowns, that Thomas Morestead has consistently booted touchbacks and, when actually given a chance to punt, actually finished second in net average to the NIners' All Pro Andy Lee?? Also...having kicked a record number of field goals is a nice record to have, but if that's coming at the expense of touchdowns, it's not so nice...and against the Saints, touchdowns are a necessity.
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The bottom line here?? I'm not saying that the San Francisco 49ers don't have any chance to win this game, or that they won't be able to keep the game close enough to have a shot to win it at the end. 13-3 in any league is still pretty good, and home field advantage is worth more than just a passing fancy. In the end, though, a team with this many offensive weapons, with a defense that learns to absorb shots early so that they can dish them out late, and an experienced team who's learned the hard way how to properly prepare going against a good team (and coach) taking its first dip in the playoff pressure cooker since the glory days of Montana, Rice, Taylor and Lott, simply should not be discounted or dismissed so readily.
And, when you get right down to it, don't ever bet against a leader like Drew Brees.
Saints 34, 49ers 24.
This FanPost was written by a reader and member of Canal Street Chronicles. It does not necessarily reflect the views of CSC and its staff or editors.
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Vernon Davis. Baron Davis is a basketball player.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
I agree with you, except
these NFL ranks are not those of an “above-average” offense
off ypg 26th
yds per play 24th
rushing yards per play 19 th
pass yds per game 29th
pass yds /play 16th
sacks per pass play 26th
first downs per game 23th
3rd down % 31 st
goal to go 26th
"We've established the run; we've established the pass. Now all we have to establish is another championship!"
"Some say the glass is half empty;
Some say the glass is half full.
I say- 'are you going to finish that beer'?"
all we have to do to win this game is not give away field position blatantly
"We've established the run; we've established the pass. Now all we have to establish is another championship!"
"Some say the glass is half empty;
Some say the glass is half full.
I say- 'are you going to finish that beer'?"
Except no one has said this or anything remotely close.
but I felt the need to post this after reading all of the smack laid down by certain 49’ers trollers that the Saints might as well not suit up and play Saturday, because they are going to get beat down by the best run defense in the NFL combined with the home field advantage of grassy (and occasionally muddy) Candlestick Park (or whatever corporate entity it is called right now).
People on both sides continue to completely mischaracterize the arguments of the other side. Might as well be in Washington…
A 34-24 SaInts win is a very reasonable prediction.
Attack this day with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind. ~ Jack Harbaugh
I don't think anyone on NN has said that the Saints have no chance, are terrible, shouldn't show up, will get blown out, etc.
by mikeinsp on Jan 12, 2012 7:17 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Agreed. Have been reading the board all week without noticing any trolls. Apparently the definition of that word grows broader by the day.
trapped in grammar and calendars.
Well there was this one guy on NN who posted a fanshot saying that the niners have no chance of winning
and they call us trolls…
And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman
Follow @manraj76
why live in a 200k house when you can live under a 3million dollar bridge...
and night food is so much better than day food…
And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman
Follow @manraj76
I wasn’t aware of the night/day food difference. I will make myself more aware going forward. ;)
"Move over Marino, there's a new Brees coming through town!"-Jim Henderson
You should
eat the same food at 2am its so tasty…
And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman
Follow @manraj76
naa
I don’t do what I think you are implying. But I do love brownies… hmmm brownies…
And when we win, we want to dominate. We want to take guys out. We want to hurt guys. We want to win. We just want to dominate, hit them in the mouth. - Rathman
Follow @manraj76
That's because at 2am a person is usually drunk and starving.
I'd rather not wait until I'm dead to figure out how to live.
by hooahsaint2.0 on Jan 14, 2012 2:53 AM CST up reply actions
Or is that just me?
I WANT SOME FRENCH TOAST!!!!
I'd rather not wait until I'm dead to figure out how to live.
by hooahsaint2.0 on Jan 14, 2012 2:53 AM CST up reply actions
Oh, there have been a poster or two here....
…who has been talking like the Saints have no chance to win.
Maybe the word “troll” was a bit too much, but you can’t tell me there’s been plenty of smack about the Saints getting rolled.
This was just a friendly reminder that there are other viewpoints around.
Show it to me, I haven’t seen em.
Attack this day with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind. ~ Jack Harbaugh
by Virginia9er on Jan 12, 2012 10:32 PM CST up reply actions
And of course, there are plenty on our side...
..who silently think that the Saints are going to lay an country butt kicking on Frisco.
I’m not one of them, but I do think that they will prevail after a real struggle.
Confidence is not lacking on either side..the way it should be in a divisional playoff.
No wind = no problem
Niners are toast
Byee
See ya on Saturday
And, thanks, Anthony. Nice post…for the toast
Just a mild quibble
But, for the most part, the line quartet of Bushrod, Nicks, de la Puente, Evans, and Strief have done their job
Isn’t that a quintet?
Hmmm...
I probably shouldn’t come on this. ;-)
Wanna say something? Sign up! It's free!
by Dave Cariello on Aug 24, 2011 10:31 AM PDT
Hmmmmmmmm
<<<quartet
You may be on to something there.
<<<quintet
Every day I'm shufflin'!
by Just 'Nother Day on Jan 13, 2012 3:07 AM CST reply actions
(Reply fail to Cajun in CA)
Every day I'm shufflin'!
by Just 'Nother Day on Jan 13, 2012 3:08 AM CST up reply actions
I’ll meet you anywhere, anytime, for a drink or anything else you have in mind.
"Sinn Féin, motherf*****s!"
(Reply fail to Salma Hayek)
"Sinn Féin, motherf*****s!"
by MtnExile on Jan 13, 2012 8:52 AM CST up reply actions 8 recs
Sure. Tease a veteran.
Real classy!!!
Every day I'm shufflin'!
by Just 'Nother Day on Jan 13, 2012 5:46 PM CST up reply actions
Thank you, I'll be here all week.
If I came over there, we could call it USO. Oh, and try the veal.
"Sinn Féin, motherf*****s!"
I wouldn't say there has been a lot of trolling or smack talking this week
All in all, there has been interesting and mature discussions with a side of homerism and smack. It has been the kind of give-and-take I enjoy with an intelligent fanbase that is also passionate about football and their team. Bring on Saturday and may the best team win!! (Saints, of course…)
"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first.." - Mark Twain
i don't mind it too much
partly because it reinforces what i believe about the saints. when people make claims, you either accept or deny those claims based on reaction, fact and sentiment. when someone mentions… “saints can’t win outdoors/on the road” my initial reaction is to agree… because the biggest thing that pops into my mind is last year’s seattle game. then i have to consider the facts. there’s a nice little post here on csc talking about the saints as a good road team. lastly, my feelings coupled with facts ultimately give way to my position… i think the saints will win. so for all the “smack” talk… it brings about a heavy dose of good writing by a lot of people on both sides of the argument… and i benefit by learning from you folks.
i don’t think people should get personal.. but i for one have enjoyed all the “talk” hitherto.
They don't eat the grass in California.......
"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading" Henny Youngman
Just tweaked the post a bit...
…to make corrections to some errors, and to add a few minor points. Remember, I’m kinda new to this fan posting.
As for all the smack being thrown between both sides: Hey, nothing wrong with defending your team. I actually respect San Francisco a plenty for their record and for making such a definitive turnaround in so short a time. And, they will be by far the toughest opponent the Saints have battled this year..as it should be in a divisional playoff. Don’t blame me, though, for having confidence that my favored team has the personnel and the game plan that will ultimately win out.
Unfortunately, I will be working during the game, but at least my workplace will have a TV tuned to the game, so at least I can keep updated.
All the talking will give way at 3:30 CDT. Then, all of us will simply watch, react, and enjoy what should be a hell of a game.

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