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After watching the most heartbreaking loss in Saints history, media and fans have done a fantastic job of tossing a Molotov cocktail made of anger and hypocrisy at Gregg Williams as he heads out the door to St. Louis.

4 months ago Tiny Malbrough 104 comments 2 recs  | 

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you make some good points, Ralph

and I said some of them myself in other comments after the game…that that is who Gregg Williams is, and he’s never pretended to be otherwise…if you loved ambush, you have to also take the failed reverse pitch Devery to Reggie to try and run out the clock against TB in 2007…I get that. If you loved blitzing Favre and Warner and Manning into oblivion as they went 3-0 in the 2009 playoffs, then you have to take what happened Saturday at the end.

So in what comes next, I’m not asking Gregg Williams to be something he’s not, or trying to rip him for it as he moves on…

I’m just saying that after three years of it, in which this defense has not steadily improved (which is definitely also due to player acquisition), nor established any sort of consistent identity of “here’s what we do” and doing it well, I’m ready for a change.

I am grateful for what he did, turning the 2008 GG defense into something that brought the Lombardi to New Orleans, and then doing the best he possibly could with the players he had, I’d rather not re-up him for more…

Maybe this is a mistake, but it’s what I think they need now.

"We live by the blitz, and we die by the blitz.'' - Roman Harper

"So I guess the blitz died.'' - Alex Smith

by Hans Petersen on Jan 16, 2012 11:06 AM CST reply actions  

just to be fair - full disclosure

right after the game, in the sanctity of my own home and living room, and beer- and emotion-induced frustration, I did initially whine a bit and say to my wife, “we’ve got no right blitzing then!!” “what was he thinking????”

and then I said to her…“he thought he’d get a sack and a fumble, or a sack and then right after that a stop on third and long, and then another 4th down stuff… just like he always thinks.”

and then I said, “maybe it’s time for a guy who teaches more fundamentals, stays true to his philosophy, but then is also able to adjust based on some situational realities” (but maybe that’s what GG was, and I’m just wishing for what they already had, which I also didn’t like…)

this was all over the course of the rest of the night…not just moments apart

truth is I really don’t know what the right answer is, and more importantly, nor do I know what Pay-loo think about all this, as they will be making the decisions that matter in this, er, matter.

"We live by the blitz, and we die by the blitz.'' - Roman Harper

"So I guess the blitz died.'' - Alex Smith

by Hans Petersen on Jan 16, 2012 11:12 AM CST up reply actions  

Total rebuild on defense?

Hans I think it’s fair to say it is time to move on from Gregg Williams. My question is will Loomis/Payton think about rebuilding the entire defense and maybe going 3-4?

Reasons why

1. DT Franklin/Rogers are free agents so Saints don’t have big commitments at DT
2. Vilma is getting older so even if he doesn’t fit in 3-4 you don’t stay in 4-3 to accommodate Vilma
3. Jordan/Will Smith can fit in as 3-4 ends, especially Jordan who is solid against run but not much pass rush impact
4. Easier to find outside linebackers than DT’s DE

Reason not to make switch to 3-4

1. Brees/Colston/Nicks all free agents and no #1 pick. How can they do complete defense rebuild and keep offense togather?
2. Saints LB are not good and you might need 4 new ones for 3-4

Not likely but 3-4 might be option

"Saints fans should be sending Paul Tagliabue primo Hollywood quality hookers monthly for the remainder of his life"---Andrew Juge

by Malbrough on Jan 16, 2012 12:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Vilma's gone.

Cap casualty, and he’s not good anymore. Plus, he seems like an @$$ on twitter.

Bring back Aaron Brooks! He's the only one who can save us from the evil that is Drew Brees!!
Dallas’ misery will always be my delight
-TexansDC

by Jon Banks on Jan 16, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I bet Vilme renegotiates or gets cut and re-signs to a cap-friendly deal

who else wants him, and does he still want to play?

"We live by the blitz, and we die by the blitz.'' - Roman Harper

"So I guess the blitz died.'' - Alex Smith

by Hans Petersen on Jan 16, 2012 1:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Trade Brees

I’m sure we can get enough for him to entirely restock our defense, and Chase Daniel is now good enough to take the reins of the offense.

Whenever in twice they getting quarter overcome there left everybody. Successful would time been Brees minutes some many classic fans, anyone fields time walks possibly.

(Whoa, that first paragraph makes NO sense.)

What! shall we curse the planets of mishap
That plotted thus our glory's overthrow?

by MtnExile on Jan 16, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions  

hehehe

Dude does suck. Only beat Marino’s record by what, 400 yards? And then 2 straight 450+ yard games in the postseason? CUT HIS ASS.

Bring back Aaron Brooks! He's the only one who can save us from the evil that is Drew Brees!!
Dallas’ misery will always be my delight
-TexansDC

by Jon Banks on Jan 16, 2012 12:40 PM CST up reply actions  

on the decline

truly

Being a Saints Fan Will Take Years Off Your Life

by MobileSaint on Jan 16, 2012 12:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Saints LB are not good and you might need 4 new ones for 3-4

Call me crazy (I am, I know it) but I’m ok with the prospect of Casillias and Wilson as OLB. We’d need beasts at ILB/NT to make up for it though

Bring back Aaron Brooks! He's the only one who can save us from the evil that is Drew Brees!!
Dallas’ misery will always be my delight
-TexansDC

by Jon Banks on Jan 16, 2012 12:39 PM CST up reply actions  

2. Vilma is getting older so even if he doesn’t fit in 3-4 you don’t stay in 4-3 to accommodate Vilma

Vilma fits the 3-4 just fine. He simply prefers the 4-3 … just like every other inside linebacker in the league prefers the 4-3. His numbers didn’t drop off any more dramatically percentage wise than any other ILB/MLB juxtaposed between those two schemes.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 12:45 PM CST up reply actions  

No. No he doesn't.

His inability to play in the 3-4 is why the Jets got rid of him in the first place.

He’s undersized (6’1, 230lbs) and couldn’t stick to his strengths because he didn’t play sideline-to-sideline in the ILB role in the 3-4.

He was too easily washed out by unblocked Guards and it was no surprise that he was first unproductive, and then injured, by week 7 of his first season playing in a 3-4.

He then asked permission to get traded to a 4-3 team. He knows his own limitations.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 16, 2012 6:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Comparative statistics don’t support that argument.

He then asked permission to get traded to a 4-3 team. He knows his own limitations.

More like, he knows the limitations of the 3-4, as it pertains to ILB recognition. Patrick Willis is 6’1" 240. He’s played in the 3-4 most of his professional career and quite well, for being “undersized” by your definition. Players that have played in both systems typically see a spike/drop off akin to what Vilma experienced.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 17, 2012 12:14 AM CST up reply actions  

couldn’t stick to his strengths because he didn’t play sideline-to-sideline in the ILB role in the 3-4.

The same could be said of practically any professional ILB. That’s not a strength. That’s the nature of the MLB position.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 17, 2012 12:16 AM CST up reply actions  

You’re talking to someone who played MLB in high school with very little athletic ability. There is a HUGE advantage to playing in the 4-3, in terms of statistical production.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 17, 2012 12:18 AM CST up reply actions  

i agree with malbrough..

the percentages of success had favored the pressure.. sure, in hinds sight an extra cover guy or more bump and run on the TE may have been better..
perhaps a total jail-break blitz forcing an immediate throw was possible, although if we had gotten burned on that, he would really be crucified..
as it is.. it’s not uncommon that a tight game suddenly “opens up” in the final minutes..
you dig-up the playbook.. the defense is tired.. you go back to your best possible plays.. some idiot defensive coordinator goes prevent, etc.
i find it ironic, also, that SF with their vaulted defense.. got burned twice late.. surrendering leads with just minutes left.. where were the bone jarring hits on sproles & jimmy then..? or the ball-hawking safeties..? riiiiiight.. they were watching the numberes 43 & 80 from the back side..
just an insane game.. with the wrong ending.. almost like we had earned enough merits, after the very sloppy strat.. to get to the finish line..
not meant to be..
i was numb for hours..

by the 9th plague on Jan 16, 2012 12:08 PM CST reply actions  

Know how Casino security can tell who's coutin' cards at the Black Jack tables?

They keep up with the count, too, and pattern the player’s bets.

The D did well for most of that game, no doubt. But SF saw it all game, too, knew it was coming, knew exactly what to do to rip it up. It’s that inability to adapt and change that isn’t working. Persistence is a good thing, but when the opposition catches on, it’s time for something else. I think this year proved there’s enough film available to game plan for a GW defense from the Saints.

"I don't suffer from drug addiction. I enjoy it very much."

by cajuncreation on Jan 16, 2012 12:29 PM CST reply actions  

Yeah, no.

There’s a difference when GG blitzed in the Super Bowl. Even if worst case scenario comes true, and Reggie Wayne gets into the endzone instead of Porter jumping the route, the game is now tied 24 all with 3 minutes and change with the Saints getting the ball back. Nothing but good things can happen even if the worst case scenario comes true. So it was wise to blitz. When the 49ers are still 30+ yards away from game tying FG range, blitzing is not the wise move. You can send 4 or maybe 5 if you have a zone blitz scheme set up on the sidelines and deep. From what I remember hearing, GG sent 8 guys. 8. Players. Meaning we only had 3 in coverage. You call it ballsy, I call it stupid. Even if MJ actually locates the ball and knocks it down, that was utterly stupid.

I mean, watching Wade Phillips in Houston, I see him call billions of blitzes, but he doesn’t call a freakin 8 man blitz with the game on the line. There’s a reason he has the 2nd ranked defense in the league, and GG was coaching a bottom 10 defense.

This is my biggest grip against GG, no situational awareness whatsoever. It feels like he calls whatever he wants to on a certain play, irregardless of down, distance, or game situation.

TL;DR : I’m done with GG. Enjoy St. Louis. Bring in Spags.

Bring back Aaron Brooks! He's the only one who can save us from the evil that is Drew Brees!!
Dallas’ misery will always be my delight
-TexansDC

by Jon Banks on Jan 16, 2012 12:37 PM CST reply actions   2 recs

I think GW’s testosterone throttle has been welded to the firewall.

What! shall we curse the planets of mishap
That plotted thus our glory's overthrow?

by MtnExile on Jan 16, 2012 12:40 PM CST up reply actions  

point of order

Jon’s GG is HansDat’s GW,

HansDat’s GG is Gary Gibbs

"We live by the blitz, and we die by the blitz.'' - Roman Harper

"So I guess the blitz died.'' - Alex Smith

by Hans Petersen on Jan 16, 2012 1:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh damn.

That’s right…ugh. I call him double G, but it’s easier to type out GG. Can you imagine if the Saints had a good defensive coordinator since 2006? Brees would have as many rings as Brady.

Bring back Aaron Brooks! He's the only one who can save us from the evil that is Drew Brees!!
Dallas’ misery will always be my delight
-TexansDC

by Jon Banks on Jan 16, 2012 1:30 PM CST up reply actions  

before the plague goes into hibernation..

lemme say that many years ago we had one of the best defenses in the league.. oh.. but we managed to get beat late by the “special” QB in just about every big game.. including several playoffs..
like i said above.. the great niner defense almost got beat late.. & no one is questioning their defensive strategies.. it just so happend that the time left favored their possession to be the last..
sometimes you lose..

by the 9th plague on Jan 16, 2012 12:54 PM CST reply actions  

rec'd Jon Banks

for the comment on situational awareness and the difference between the Super Bowl situation and Saturday’s. Though I made the comment after the Jimmy Gras touchdown that we had scored too quick, I never would have thought we’d give up a TD. Maybe a FG, but not 7

As An Alabama fan (thousands of you just tuned me out), a team is sometimes so good in other areas that it can mask its weaknesses. But only for so long. In November for Alabama, it was the FG unit, especiially over 40 yards. Everybody who watched Alabama knew Alabama’s kicking game sucked for the past couple of seasons, especially on longer FGs, but it was never really needed, so it just lay there dormant, kind of like that last piece of pizza in the box that everyone forgets about in the fridge until Day 6. or 16.

Does anyone remember the Tennessee game this year? How much difference was there really between that ending, and what happened Saturday? That’s right, the Saints D got sliced and diced at the end of the Titans game for two long drives, one a TD and one inside the 10 yard line that mercifully ended when the clock struck zero. Except then the opposition was led by a rookie seeing his first meaningful action of his rookie year, instead by a 7-year pro former first-round No.1 pick.

I’ve just seen the GW show too many times this past three seasons, though the Brees express on offense has been good enough to cover for it. I’m done.

P.S. Anyone else notice how GW’s defense got lame after the 2009 season when it no longer had a healthy Darren Sharper prowling the secondary?

Being a Saints Fan Will Take Years Off Your Life

by MobileSaint on Jan 16, 2012 12:57 PM CST reply actions  

P.S. Anyone else notice how GW’s defense got lame after the 2009 season when it no longer had a healthy Darren Sharper prowling the secondary?

Because MJ isn’t a ballhawk, he’s a hitter like Harper. So if anything, he’s better suited to be a SS instead of FS. Also notice how the Saints opponents aren’t rookie QBs or young/crappy o-lines? His defenses are best suited to those situations, not vet QBs and vet lines.

Bring back Aaron Brooks! He's the only one who can save us from the evil that is Drew Brees!!
Dallas’ misery will always be my delight
-TexansDC

by Jon Banks on Jan 16, 2012 1:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Jenkins looked super at times in 2010. Remember Dallas?

But Sharper was special. That was a one-time bit of magic that we can’t expect to duplicate. It’s time to develop our own guys—like we do on offense—and quit expecting to pick up free agents to plug the holes every offseason.

And if it were me, I’d forget about exotic blitz packages and coverage schemes, and spend every working second drilling my guys on tackling, stripping, shedding blocks, rallying to the ball, and catching the damn football.

What! shall we curse the planets of mishap
That plotted thus our glory's overthrow?

by MtnExile on Jan 16, 2012 1:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Notice how the entire secondary seemed to regress this past year?

Most notably, Porter and Jenkins? The fact that the two fat boys on the line sucked too is also something I’m willing to throw at GG too. I’m not sure how good he was at developing talent on other teams, but I don’t like it here.

Also, 120% agreed on the last part. You can run a tampa 2 all day and have success if your team has outstanding fundamentals.

Bring back Aaron Brooks! He's the only one who can save us from the evil that is Drew Brees!!
Dallas’ misery will always be my delight
-TexansDC

by Jon Banks on Jan 16, 2012 1:16 PM CST up reply actions  

You may not be old enough to remember, but he used to use Blaine Bishop in much the same way he used Harper. Kind of made a household name out of him, in terms of his aggressive play; clearly a product of his utilization. Once Williams left Tennessee, Bishop’s career evaporated. That’s another reason I’m thinking now would be a good time to sell high.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 1:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Same with Donovin Darius in Jacksonville, albeit to a lesser extent.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 1:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, I was alright with Harper staying when GG was here.

Since he’s leaving, the next coordinator will have little use for a SS who can’t cover, struggles to tackle, has a bad rep, and is only good at blitzing.

Bring back Aaron Brooks! He's the only one who can save us from the evil that is Drew Brees!!
Dallas’ misery will always be my delight
-TexansDC

by Jon Banks on Jan 16, 2012 1:29 PM CST up reply actions  

You might actually be on to something there. Jenkins does take bad angles in coverage. Maybe we could trade Harper, move Jenkins up and look into getting another starting FS. They do seem to be more plentiful in the draft than quality SSs.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 1:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Watching him in deep coverage is maddening.

He seems to watch the receiver and wait for the big hit instead of pursuing the ball and watching the QB.

Bring back Aaron Brooks! He's the only one who can save us from the evil that is Drew Brees!!
Dallas’ misery will always be my delight
-TexansDC

by Jon Banks on Jan 16, 2012 1:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Elements of Brandon Meriweather in the guy.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 16, 2012 6:21 PM CST up reply actions  

blockquote>Maybe we could trade Harper
St. Louis is going to have a new DC who is a fan of Harper…….

Bring back Aaron Brooks! He's the only one who can save us from the evil that is Drew Brees!!
Dallas’ misery will always be my delight
-TexansDC

by Jon Banks on Jan 16, 2012 1:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Haha! True. Who do we want from them? Chris Long for Harper. Where do I sign?

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 1:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh wow.

Chris Long on the Saints…what would be the D line? Smith-Free Agent-Jordan-Long?

Bring back Aaron Brooks! He's the only one who can save us from the evil that is Drew Brees!!
Dallas’ misery will always be my delight
-TexansDC

by Jon Banks on Jan 16, 2012 1:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Not sure, though I seriously doubt Smith will be around until the end of his contract (through 2014).

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 1:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Jordan could conceivably play WOLB in the 3-4. He has the same physical makeup as Renaldo Turnbull. Not sure how effective he’d be, but it wouldn’t hurt to experiment.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 1:30 PM CST up reply actions  

I thought he was better suited for a 5 tech in a 3-4?

Bring back Aaron Brooks! He's the only one who can save us from the evil that is Drew Brees!!
Dallas’ misery will always be my delight
-TexansDC

by Jon Banks on Jan 16, 2012 1:32 PM CST up reply actions  

He is, I was just trying to find a spot for him in the rotation. But you’re right, Long would be the better candidate to switch.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 1:35 PM CST up reply actions  

i fear jordan would be too slow off the mark to play WOLB

by HRP-SAINT on Jan 16, 2012 1:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Probably a mental block on my part, based on my well-documented disdain for Caucasian OLBs.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 1:37 PM CST up reply actions  

LOL

/that’s racist

Bring back Aaron Brooks! He's the only one who can save us from the evil that is Drew Brees!!
Dallas’ misery will always be my delight
-TexansDC

by Jon Banks on Jan 16, 2012 1:38 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I’m white. I’m allowed to poke fun at our general inferiority in athletics.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 1:40 PM CST up reply actions  

If we're putting anyone at WOLB, I'd rather Long over Jordan.

Bring back Aaron Brooks! He's the only one who can save us from the evil that is Drew Brees!!
Dallas’ misery will always be my delight
-TexansDC

by Jon Banks on Jan 16, 2012 1:32 PM CST up reply actions  

WOLB

makes me think of Colby Bockwoldt

"We live by the blitz, and we die by the blitz.'' - Roman Harper

"So I guess the blitz died.'' - Alex Smith

by Hans Petersen on Jan 16, 2012 1:34 PM CST up reply actions  

all those Os, Ws, Ls, and Bs, I guess

"We live by the blitz, and we die by the blitz.'' - Roman Harper

"So I guess the blitz died.'' - Alex Smith

by Hans Petersen on Jan 16, 2012 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Good point.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 1:34 PM CST up reply actions  

and maybe Harper becomes the new Pierson Prioleieau

"We live by the blitz, and we die by the blitz.'' - Roman Harper

"So I guess the blitz died.'' - Alex Smith

by Hans Petersen on Jan 16, 2012 1:37 PM CST up reply actions  

LOL following them b**** tits from here to eternity.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

So just thinking of something...

Watching what the Texans did last year is something that I think would work here too. Moving CB Glover Quinn to SS (Quinn is very similar to MJ in skill set) and signing Danieal Manning to play FS. Manning has been a ballhawk with great range. That secondary became one of the best in the league after being one of the worst. I think a move to SS for MJ and a FA signing of a ball hawk/roaming safety would be something the secondary needs to become good.

Bring back Aaron Brooks! He's the only one who can save us from the evil that is Drew Brees!!
Dallas’ misery will always be my delight
-TexansDC

by Jon Banks on Jan 16, 2012 1:41 PM CST up reply actions  

if you look at the tape, GW blitzed on the long completion to Davis by the sideline, but

he didn’t blitz on the last play of the game. Both plays were failures for the defense. That tells me that neither blitzing nor playing coverage was going to work on that series, it was just meant to be. The last play of the game was zone, Shanle was right before the gooal line and Harper was right past the goal line. Harper hit Davis and had his arm in there and a lesser man would have not made the catch. It was Vernon Davis’ day. It was the 49ers day.

If we had a pass rush, which is our only real weakness on this team (as the defense improved throughout the year in other phases but not pass rush), we would have gone to the SB.

"We've established the run; we've established the pass. Now all we have to establish is another championship!"
"Some say the glass is half empty;
Some say the glass is half full.
I say- 'are you going to finish that beer'?"

by Philinwood on Jan 16, 2012 1:13 PM CST reply actions  

A short slant like the one to Davis for a TD is heavily reliant on proper timing. Davis should have been jammed at the line. We were letting their receivers get free releases and expecting a blitz to get to a quarterback taking short drops.

What! shall we curse the planets of mishap
That plotted thus our glory's overthrow?

by MtnExile on Jan 16, 2012 1:21 PM CST up reply actions  

I think calling our defense lame is a little extreme.

We went 13-3 and won the NFC South, last year we came within a missed FG of winning the NFC South. Three years of playoffs and a SB. All without an elite pass rusher.

"We've established the run; we've established the pass. Now all we have to establish is another championship!"
"Some say the glass is half empty;
Some say the glass is half full.
I say- 'are you going to finish that beer'?"

by Philinwood on Jan 16, 2012 1:16 PM CST reply actions  

The Patriots are in the AFC championship game. I don’t think calling their defense lame is extreme.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 1:19 PM CST up reply actions  

31st in yardage given up, but 20th in points

And they just shut down the #1 rushing O in the league, and only have rush-heavy teams left to play.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 16, 2012 6:24 PM CST up reply actions  

The Giants are more pass heavy than the Patriots.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 17, 2012 12:20 AM CST up reply actions  

We went 13-3 because the offense was arguably the greatest offense in NFL history.

Bring back Aaron Brooks! He's the only one who can save us from the evil that is Drew Brees!!
Dallas’ misery will always be my delight
-TexansDC

by Jon Banks on Jan 16, 2012 1:22 PM CST up reply actions  

The Saints have had a great run, overall, but it's hard for the defense to take much credit for it

2009: 20th in yards allowed, 25th in points allowed
2010: 4th in yards allowed, 7th in points allowed
2011: 24th in yards allowed, 13th in points allowed
So, on average: 16th in yards allowed, 15th in points allowed. Middle of the road. In fact, I would say that in 2009 and 2011 the Saints’ defense had years that would have got Gregg Williams fired were he not coaching a playoff team.

by Uncle Mo's Family Feedbag on Jan 16, 2012 1:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Someone made a good point on the other thread. With that little time remaining and within FG range already, why not just hold the receivers at the line of scrimmage? Ten yards, ten yards, a series of half the distance march offs … eventually they’re out of time and have to settle for the FG. Of course, they may get ballsy and try a draw, but I think we’re better off going that route.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 1:17 PM CST reply actions  

maybe you should be our d-cord

I’m not even kidding

"We live by the blitz, and we die by the blitz.'' - Roman Harper

"So I guess the blitz died.'' - Alex Smith

by Hans Petersen on Jan 16, 2012 1:32 PM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn’t have thought of that on my own. But it does make sense.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 1:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Can't end the game on a penalty.

Your idea would get them to the half-yard line with 0.00 on the clock… unless they’d scored despite being held.

They either get held at the line of scrimmage and score, or they get held at every scrimmage and get one last shot to win it at the half-yard mark with 0.00 on the clock. Not sure that’s a very sound defensive strategy.

Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Contributing Writer at PatsPulpit

by Comedic.Sans on Jan 16, 2012 6:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Of course it is. And you’re incorrect. The clock would run at the onset of each snap. Eventually, there would be time for one offensive play. That wouldn’t necessarily occur on the half yard line. At that point, Harbaugh wouldn’t be able to risk running an offensive play, as he wouldn’t know whether you’re going to hold again or not. He’d inevitably kick the game tying FG, as any HC with half a brain would do in that situation.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 17, 2012 12:24 AM CST up reply actions  

I also didn’t suggest the game would end on a penalty.
It also isn’t my idea.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 17, 2012 12:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Scoring despite being held is definitely a possibility. So is scoring despite NOT being held, as we witnessed.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 17, 2012 12:27 AM CST up reply actions  

Bottom Line...

This was a year that won’t be duplicated anytime soon on offense. Next year we’ll be good again, I have no doubt, top of the league. But if our D doesn’t improve by at least a quarter mile, we may not see the playoffs. New coaching at TB, new coordinators at ATL, Carolina will be better…if we regress (or stay the same) on defense, 2008 comes to mind.

"I don't suffer from drug addiction. I enjoy it very much."

by cajuncreation on Jan 16, 2012 1:25 PM CST reply actions  

I'm no expert on football at all, but I liked seeing the defense get aggressive on the 49ers final drive.

Dropping into a prevent when all they needed was a FG probably would have sent us into overtime at the very least. Frankly, I’m just not in a frame of mind to talk about it much right now. I’m still obsessing over a missed opportunity.

by Nabb1 on Jan 16, 2012 1:29 PM CST reply actions  

probably would have sent us into overtime at the very least

All things considered, please forgive me for not seeing the downside in that.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 1:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Fair point.

In hindsight, no, that would have been preferable. OT would have worried me, but it would have been a better chance than what happened.

by Nabb1 on Jan 16, 2012 1:50 PM CST up reply actions  

lots of that going around today

hindsight

and this one from Plague: “hinds sight” which makes me think of “bum-lookers”

"We live by the blitz, and we die by the blitz.'' - Roman Harper

"So I guess the blitz died.'' - Alex Smith

by Hans Petersen on Jan 16, 2012 1:53 PM CST up reply actions  

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 1:56 PM CST up reply actions  

OK, I left myself open for that

but CP should get flagged for hitting a defenseless commenter with the crown of his image-locating helmet

"We live by the blitz, and we die by the blitz.'' - Roman Harper

"So I guess the blitz died.'' - Alex Smith

by Hans Petersen on Jan 16, 2012 2:00 PM CST up reply actions  

but wouldn't that actually be more "colon sight"?

"We live by the blitz, and we die by the blitz.'' - Roman Harper

"So I guess the blitz died.'' - Alex Smith

by Hans Petersen on Jan 16, 2012 2:01 PM CST up reply actions  

semicolon sight

He can’t see the upper half from that angle.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 2:02 PM CST up reply actions  

true

proctologist, heal thyself!!

"We live by the blitz, and we die by the blitz.'' - Roman Harper

"So I guess the blitz died.'' - Alex Smith

by Hans Petersen on Jan 16, 2012 2:04 PM CST up reply actions  

ps- more disclosure

had to google “butt doctor” to get the name correct, and nothing nasty popped up at the top of that search – whew!

"We live by the blitz, and we die by the blitz.'' - Roman Harper

"So I guess the blitz died.'' - Alex Smith

by Hans Petersen on Jan 16, 2012 2:05 PM CST up reply actions  

The sad thing is, some of the things that popped up – I couldn’t tell if they were truly clinical or some sort of fetish sites.

by Nabb1 on Jan 16, 2012 2:08 PM CST up reply actions  

and your just a simple unforzen cromagnon saints fan, so what do you know of fetishes?? :-)

"We live by the blitz, and we die by the blitz.'' - Roman Harper

"So I guess the blitz died.'' - Alex Smith

by Hans Petersen on Jan 16, 2012 2:09 PM CST up reply actions  

I know things that I truly wish I did not know.

Sometimes, I think I’ll never be able to look at lawn tools, a llama, two midget clowns, a transsexual nun and a 20lb. tub of Crisco the same way ever again.

by Nabb1 on Jan 16, 2012 2:19 PM CST up reply actions  

that's why I DIDNT click on IMAGES after completing the reg search...

"We live by the blitz, and we die by the blitz.'' - Roman Harper

"So I guess the blitz died.'' - Alex Smith

by Hans Petersen on Jan 16, 2012 2:08 PM CST up reply actions  

That’s not the recommended way to dye your hair brunette.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 2:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Call me A**H*** one more time

Drew Brees....MVS Most Valuable Saint! Who Dat!!!

by cajuncommando58 on Jan 16, 2012 2:12 PM CST up reply actions  

We need to hire Kirby Smart from Alabama

and draft at least one of those AL guys. They know how to play defense.

While Ralph makes some good points, if your offense gives you the go ahead score with less than 2 minutes in a game, then there is no reason why you can’t hold the other team to at least a field goal. I’m still sick about this.

by WhoDatUpInYa on Jan 16, 2012 2:54 PM CST reply actions  

Easier when you are a skunk who plays dirty pool like Saban

oversigns and tells kids committed since August that he doesn’t have a scholarship for them two weeks from signing day

by Drinkin' Wit' Terrell Farley on Jan 16, 2012 4:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Does a skunk who plays dirty pool eat sour grapes? Because it sounds like you do.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 4:30 PM CST up reply actions  

No, I'm not a fan of an SEC team

Oversigning is wrong, what Saban did to Justin Taylor, the recruit from Georgia, is wrong

Sounds like questionable ethics have a place in your world, so long as he wins

by Drinkin' Wit' Terrell Farley on Jan 16, 2012 4:39 PM CST up reply actions  

There's also nothing special about what Nick Saban does

a lot of defensive coaches use a two-gap scheme but a lot of coaches don’t cheat with recruiting practices like he does to artificially improve depth and remove recruiting mistakes

I would not want that scumbag anywhere near the program I follow

by Drinkin' Wit' Terrell Farley on Jan 16, 2012 4:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Recruiting Shmuiting

Since the Saints are a pro team, I don’t really care about the alleged recruiting violations you speak of. We only need to worry about the salary cap on this site.

by WhoDatUpInYa on Jan 16, 2012 7:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Gread read, Ralph.

Well done. I just don’t agree with the charge of hypocrisy for anybody who thinks this aggressive style works when you get the turnovers, but nearly as well when you don’t.

I’m not one of those people who needs to have Williams’ head on a platter or rode out of town. But, I’m not sorry he’s going. We either need the turnovers or something more fundemental.

"I am a Saints player. Look, sir" Patrick Robinson

by CrazyforColston on Jan 16, 2012 2:55 PM CST reply actions  

You are a brilliant woman, C4C. In fact, I’m just going to sit here and stare at your profile picture, until all the stupid in me runs away.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 4:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Still learning, CP

Can’t believe I became a crazy football fan along with my crazy for colston and crazy for coldpizza and all the crazy period…

"I am a Saints player. Look, sir" Patrick Robinson

by CrazyforColston on Jan 17, 2012 5:19 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't know if SBNation sites offer "restraining order" protections, but you can always ask...

“…he’s posting from INSIDE THE HOUSE!!!!”

"We live by the blitz, and we die by the blitz.'' - Roman Harper

"So I guess the blitz died.'' - Alex Smith

by Hans Petersen on Jan 16, 2012 6:16 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Thanks for looking out for me, Hans.

I feel safe. CP is going to get over it/me real fast. ;)

"I am a Saints player. Look, sir" Patrick Robinson

by CrazyforColston on Jan 17, 2012 5:21 AM CST up reply actions  

What makes you think that? Does this beautiful story have a twist ending, like The Crying Game?

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 17, 2012 1:50 PM CST up reply actions  

snowboard_kat is a guy and I’ve never gotten over him. Just saying.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 17, 2012 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Apparently there was a recent gathering in Vegas to refute that particular notion. You’re just upset that you wound up the sidelines like everyone else. So’k…we feel for ya man.

-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.

by jeff.l.b on Jan 17, 2012 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

No, I'm really female.

And I’m sure it sures in the comments at times…it’s just, oh how do I break it to you?…I’m very unavailable, as in married.

"I am a Saints player. Look, sir" Patrick Robinson

by CrazyforColston on Jan 17, 2012 9:39 PM CST up reply actions  

sures (not even a word) = shows.

"I am a Saints player. Look, sir" Patrick Robinson

by CrazyforColston on Jan 17, 2012 9:41 PM CST up reply actions  

B.S. Ralph. You know better than this.

It’s not hypocritical to like the 2009 blitz and not the 2011because in 2009 it worked. Mainly due to Sharper having a career year.
Since 2009 it hasn’t worked. We’ve gotten no pressure with the blitz. Yet we keep calling it. We keep getting burned deep. GW used up all of his 2009 credits this year. The final drive of the 49er game was inexcusable. We had just been beaten by a big play the drive before for christ sake. And he makes the same mistake again 1 minute later. It’s the playoffs! There’s 40 seconds left! The only thing that can lose the game is giving up a big play and you don’t do everything to avoid it? Because it’s your M.O.? F*** that! Be gone Gregg Williams.
You didn’t have to die with your boots on because we didn’t have to die at all.
Pickett’s Charge wasn’t brave. It was stupid.

In Breesus' name we play

by Breesus Christ Superstar on Jan 16, 2012 6:30 PM CST reply actions  

Pickett’s Charge wasn’t brave. It was stupid.

I’d argue it was both.

Wanna say something? Sign up! It's free!

by Dave Cariello on Jan 16, 2012 7:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, it certainly wasn’t smart, and it lost the war.
Maybe a better example is a Japanese bonsai charge. An exercise in zealous, futile, yet repetitive failure due to fanatical belief. Sounds like the Saints defensive scheme to me.

In Breesus' name we play

by Breesus Christ Superstar on Jan 16, 2012 8:25 PM CST up reply actions  

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