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Around SBN: Full Coverage of 2012 Coke 600

Why would we prefer a 3-4?


I see lot of Saints fans clamoring for Gregg Williams to leave and take his 4-3 with him. Forgive my ignorance, but we seem to be having a hard enough time finding 3 quality linebackers to start, why would we prefer to move to a system requiring more? Is there some benefit I'm missing, or are you just sick of seeing 8 blitzers 25 times a game? If anything, the last couple of years of drafting defensive linemen seems to put us in an awkward position if we try to switch.

Poll
Let me know which scheme you'd prefer to see next year.
3-4
26 votes
4-3
24 votes
Something else (tell me about it in the comments)
3 votes

53 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost was written by a reader and member of Canal Street Chronicles. It does not necessarily reflect the views of CSC and its staff or editors.

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4-3 has been the base package this year.

I see them most often in either straight 4-3 man, or a 4-3 base cover 2 zone. While I like Vilma as mike in coverage in theory, I think some stronger play in the secondary (ahem Tracy Porter after 2009) is needed to make Williams aggressive style more successful. What I don’t see is a seamless transition to speed players in the front 7 to set up a successful base 3-4, or enough money left over after paying FA’s to make a solid run on anybody to make it likely we’d switch base packages by next year. Of course this is all moot if Williams decides he doesn’t want to coach in January anymore and goes to the Rams. I agree that we’ve seen both looks over the course of this year, I’m just not sold on the idea that we should move Gregg Williams out and try to get someone to focus more on a 3-4 base for next year.

by WhoDatKY on Jan 16, 2012 12:25 PM CST reply actions  

SOMETHING ELSE

MORE SPEED!!!! at every position. BETTER TACKLING at every position. FUNDAMENTALS TAUGHT AND USED by coaching staff and the players on the field. I dont care if its 3-4, 4-3, nikel, quarter, dime, prevent, whatever. I want to see offensive players covered, pressure generated, tackling, and fewer points given up. everything else is secondary.

by jray2000 on Jan 16, 2012 12:53 PM CST reply actions  

I think it’s primarily a case of “it’s broke, let’s fix it”.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 12:54 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

If anything, the last couple of years of drafting defensive linemen seems to put us in an awkward position if we try to switch.

Al Woods is gone. The only defensive linemen left are Jordan, who was projected as a 3-4 DE in the pros to begin with and Greg Romeus, who hasn’t played a down and may never regain his junior season form at Pitt. I don’t think anyone should be basing what scheme they employ on a 7th round project pick. In terms of what personnel at hand, the only true concern is Sedrick Ellis. He’s not going to be playing NT for anyone. That said, he’s a first round pick that has at least performed admirably since being drafted. As such, he holds trade value. We’re probably in better shape (currently) for a switch than 25 other teams in the league, i.e., we have very little going for our defense that is predicated towards the scheme at hand.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 1:03 PM CST reply actions  

We shouldn’t have let Ayodele walk. He would have been a nice discount transition piece at NT. Same goes for Mitchell at ILB.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 1:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I think the linebacker situation is also important

I like your point about not really losing much on the line. I like Sedrick Ellis, but the rest of the pieces of the down linemen can probably be had reasonably cheap. I expect to find more problems trying to fill out the linebacker corps. We currently have 7, and I’d like to see at least Shanle leave. For a baseline, Green Bay has 10.

Ours:

59 Bussey, Nate LB 6-2 220 22 R Illinois
52 Casillas, Jonathan LB 6-1 227 24 3 Wisconsin
56 Dunbar, Jo-Lonn LB 6-0 226 26 4 Boston College
54 Humber, Ramon LB 5-11 232 24 3 North Dakota State
58 Shanle, Scott LB 6-2 245 32 9 Nebraska
51 Vilma, Jonathan LB 6-1 230 29 8 Miami (Fla.)
95 Wilson, Martez LB 6-4 250 22 R Illinois

Theirs:

55 Bishop, Desmond LB 6-2 238 27 5 California
49 Francois, Robert LB 6-2 255 26 2 Boston College
50 Hawk, A.J. LB 6-1 247 28 6 Ohio State
59 Jones, Brad LB 6-3 242 25 3 Colorado
57 Lattimore, Jamari LB 6-2 230 23 R Middle Tennessee St.
52 Matthews, Clay LB 6-3 255 25 3 Southern California
51 Smith, D.J. LB 5-11 239 22 R Appalachian State
97 So’oto, Vic LB 6-3 263 25 R Brigham Young
93 Walden, Erik LB 6-2 250 26 4 Middle Tennessee State
58 Zombo, Frank LB 6-3 254 24 2 Central Michigan

by WhoDatKY on Jan 16, 2012 2:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Indeed, but a scheme change might also open up the possibility of converting some of our current DE’s who wouldn’t exactly fit into the 3-4 mold to linebacker. Galette springs immediately to mind, and he’s probably not the only one who could make the transition.

by Drunkamania on Jan 16, 2012 2:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Good point. Galette is our Bobby McCray at present..

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 4:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Galette is our Bobby McCray Cameron Wake at present..

For us Canadians, a much better example.

Mark Ingram-OROY
Cam Jordan-DROY
New Orleans Saints-2012 Super Bowl Champs
TOP IS GAWD!

by Alex Swift on Jan 16, 2012 4:48 PM CST up reply actions  

He’d be a much better 3-4 OLB than 4-3 defensive end…he’s got the quickness.

by BlackandGold4ever on Jan 17, 2012 9:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Ayodele – Meh…but letting Mitchell go was a very foolish decision. I’d rather have had him than Franklin or Rogers, personally.

by BlackandGold4ever on Jan 17, 2012 9:27 AM CST up reply actions  

Ellis

I agree that he isn’t a viable option at NT, but do you think there would be any potential in moving him over to DE in a 3-4 scheme?

by Drunkamania on Jan 16, 2012 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes.

Was going to say that. I’d like to see this:
Ellis/Franklin/Jordan
Wilson/Vilma/Casillas/Smith(a la D.Ware)

Mark Ingram-OROY
Cam Jordan-DROY
New Orleans Saints-2012 Super Bowl Champs
TOP IS GAWD!

by Alex Swift on Jan 16, 2012 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

I can see something similar, except that I would replace Smith with Junior Galette. My guess is that we’re probably going to have to sacrifice either Smith or Ellis as a cap casualty this offseason (honestly, to me, one yet to be mentioned advantage of moving to a 3-4 would be the ability to shed one of those two large contracts with minimal loss).

Of course this might well all be moot speculation as I read on another thread that Nolan still has a year left on his Miami contract and this move would make little sense without the right coach to implement it.

by Drunkamania on Jan 16, 2012 8:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Difficult to imagine at his build.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 16, 2012 4:27 PM CST up reply actions  

He might be a bit short

But he’s built similarly to a lot of other good 3-4 ends

Mark Ingram-OROY
Cam Jordan-DROY
New Orleans Saints-2012 Super Bowl Champs
TOP IS GAWD!

by Alex Swift on Jan 16, 2012 5:21 PM CST up reply actions  

More than a bit short...he's about 5 inches shorter than a prototypical 3-4 DE.

-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.

by jeff.l.b on Jan 17, 2012 11:16 AM CST up reply actions  

More like 3 inches.

Haloti Ngata- 6’4
Cory Redding- 6’4
Justin Smith- 6’4
Aldon Smith- 6’4
Ziggy Hood- 6’3
Brett Kiesel- 6’5
Sedrick Ellis- 6’1

Mark Ingram-OROY
Cam Jordan-DROY
New Orleans Saints-2012 Super Bowl Champs
TOP IS GAWD!

by Alex Swift on Jan 17, 2012 2:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Thought Ellis was 6’ even. Think he got measured on his tippy toes.

-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.

by jeff.l.b on Jan 17, 2012 3:00 PM CST up reply actions  

6'-4" in the morning, 5'-11" at night.

When you’re that big, gravity takes a toll……………………

by Ship on Jan 17, 2012 3:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Nice try…you’re talking to a guy who’se bigger and 6’5 in the morning and 6’5 at night.

-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.

by jeff.l.b on Jan 17, 2012 4:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Are you really that big

I’m going to start being nicer.

What! shall we curse the planets of mishap
That plotted thus our glory's overthrow?

by MtnExile on Jan 18, 2012 12:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Unfortunately.

It’s not fun ducking under low doors, driving vehicles made for people 5-5" – 5’10" etc etc. At least now that I’m old and bald I don’t have to listen to gawking kids saying “gee Mr. do you play football?”

-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.

by jeff.l.b on Jan 18, 2012 2:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Was 6'3"

Last physical measured 6’2 &3/4. Guess you really do start to shrink when you get older. Dad is 6’ now and used to be 6’1". Course he turned 80 Saturday.

Drew Brees....MVS Most Valuable Saint! Who Dat!!!

by cajuncommando58 on Jan 22, 2012 8:41 AM CST up reply actions  

Better than

“Gee mister. Are you a horse jockey?”

I'd rather not wait until I'm dead to figure out how to live.

by hooahsaint2.0 on Jan 23, 2012 7:19 AM CST up reply actions  

Not really...the horse jockey can just put his hoodie up and beat the snot out of the kid. From a distance...merely looks like child on child crime.

-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.

by jeff.l.b on Jan 23, 2012 10:04 AM CST up reply actions  

TWSS.

"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes

by coldpizza on Jan 17, 2012 5:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, I’m curious to see if we try to make any trades. Bushrod made the Pro Bowl…maybe we could upgrade?

by BlackandGold4ever on Jan 17, 2012 9:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Here's one reason to prefer a 3-4

…because Mike Nolan will be the new coordinator. We screwed San Diego out of Brees and Sproles. We only screwed Miami out of Brees. It’s the Dolphins’ turn again.

What! shall we curse the planets of mishap
That plotted thus our glory's overthrow?

by MtnExile on Jan 16, 2012 1:55 PM CST reply actions  

I tend to favor a 4-3 traditionally...

…because you can get more pressure out of that than a 3-4, and you aren’t as suspect against the run between the tackles.

The real problem for the Saints D, though, is simply aging personnel and lack of fundamental tackling or covering, which is mostly the result of coaching.

Getting GDub out was the best thing that could happen. If it’s confirmed that Mike Nolan will be the new DC, and he does decide to go more 3-4 and more coverage-driven, then that alone will be an improvement.

by Anthony_JK on Jan 16, 2012 2:04 PM CST reply actions  

curious about this

I tend to favor a 4-3 traditionally because you can get more pressure out of that than a 3-4

what?

Lawrence Taylor and the dome patrol would tend to disagree.

"But tonight the Superbowl belongs to the City of New Orleans" - Roger Goodell 2/7/2010

by SaintBevo on Jan 16, 2012 3:44 PM CST up reply actions  

As would the Packers, Texans, Ravens and Steelers, and 49ers.

Mark Ingram-OROY
Cam Jordan-DROY
New Orleans Saints-2012 Super Bowl Champs
TOP IS GAWD!

by Alex Swift on Jan 16, 2012 4:20 PM CST up reply actions  

In the immortal words of herm edwars...

“You are either coaching it or allowing it to happen.”

by jray2000 on Jan 16, 2012 2:40 PM CST reply actions  

Voted 4-3, if u can pressure w/just 4

like the Giants did to GB, that’s what I’d rather see, we just couldn’t do it this yr. At times they stuffed the run, with the personnel we had, and got plenty 3 and outs. But our achilles heel the last 2 seasons have been covering TE’s, we were either too small, or too slow.

You think you know, and you don't know, and you never, ever, will.-Jim Mora Sr.
I understand ....nothing.-Michael Scott
The Future is Unwritten.-Joe Strummer
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."-Mahatma Gandhi

by metryman on Jan 18, 2012 12:24 AM CST reply actions  

I would love to see another 3-4

a la the dome patrol, but we lack the quickness of the LB’s to get pressure on the QB. The NFL seems to be going more towards the quick and bulky TE’s by the way of Gronk and Graham. We need the LB’s that can cover guys like that. If we had the front 3 that could get pressure up the middle, then I would say go for it, but I don’t see that with the LB corps we have currently. I think Shanle needs to go and we need to get 2 good LB’s next season through the draft and free agents. I don’t know of any off hand that are going to be UFAs and I don’t know what the draft class is going to look like, I am just wishing whistfully.

by Saintsfan75 on Jan 19, 2012 1:12 AM CST reply actions  

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