Why This Saints Defense is Better Than You Think
by Dave Cariello on Jan 5, 2012 11:00 AM CST
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I keep hearing the pundits telling us to expect a close, high-scoring shootout this weekend when the Saints take on the Lions in their Wild Card game. I'm assuming it's because they see two high-powered offenses coupled with barely mediocre defenses. But don't get distracted by their flashy offense. I think the Saints defense is better than any of the 'experts' are giving them credit for and this game might not be as close as everyone thinks.
That's because they're almost assuredly looking at the most obvious stat and the one that would make most sense to check first: average total yards allowed per game. And it's true, the Saints defense gives up a crap load of yardage. There's no denying that. You've seen it, I've seen it, we've all seen it. Over the last eight games, their defense has given up an average of 390.9 yards per game. Had that been their season average, it would be piss poor enough to rank them 29th overall in the league. As it stands they've completed the regular season as the 24th ranked defense overall.
But what they're not looking at is the most important stat of them all, the one that matters most: points allowed per game. Over the last eight games the Saints defense has allowed an impressive average of only 18.75 points per game. Again, if that was their season average, it would be good enough to rank them 6th best among all teams.
Hmmm...that's weird. How the hell is a defense giving up so much yardage but holding opponents to so few points? How does such a huge statistical discrepancy exist? It's not turnovers. Nope, they're -3 overall for the season, which ranks them 19th overall. So what could it be?
It's because they're shutting that ish down when it matters most: on third down. The Saints defense finished the regular season ranked 5th in third down defense, allowing just 33.17% of opponent third downs to be converted. But they've only gotten better because over the last eight games, the defense has allowed a paltry 24.65% of third downs to be converted. That would be best in the league by a mile if it was their season average.
Just as turnovers were the saving grace for the Saints 2009 defense, their success on third down in 2011 is the statistical anomaly making this year's defense surprisingly more dangerous than most would expect or give them credit for. It's the glue holding it all together. In 2009, the Saints had a 25th ranked defense but the third highest turnover margin. This year, they're a 24th ranked defense with the fifth best third down defense. Add to that the fact that they're tops in the league on offensive third downs as well and we might as well call this season for the Saints 'The Year of Third Down Domination.'
But seriously...don't sleep on this defense.
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A nice effort....but still, unfortunately, very much not convinced.
No creation of turnovers.
No pressure on the QB with kitchen sink blitzes.
No hope for me to believe we’ll stop Detroit from dropping 3 dimes +.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
by jeff.l.b on Jan 5, 2012 11:06 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
getting off the field on 3rd down
is almost the same as a turnover/takeaway/giveaway….whatever you want to call it. You want to play Debbie Downer, go ahead.
by B_Robichaux31 on Jan 5, 2012 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
I agree we might not be getting the turnovers
But it sure seems like we are tackling better
And were holding other teams from TD’s which the score is the most important defensive stat of all
by mississippisaintsfan on Jan 5, 2012 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
And were holding other teams from TD’s
= reason to give hope to believe Detroit wont drop 3 dimes +.
by B_Robichaux31 on Jan 5, 2012 11:15 AM CST up reply actions
Getting off the field on 3rd down doesn’t matter if the opposing team gets firsts down at an incredible rate off of 1st and 2nd downs. Something that has been happening quite often but nobody seems to be paying attention to.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
Doesn't matter
If the defense does NOT allow a TD. Seriously, do you think any team can hang by only putting up field goals?
by B_Robichaux31 on Jan 5, 2012 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
And yet somehow SF managed to do just that all year long to the tune of the #2 seed. I have my prediction of 30+…put up yours…we’ll see who winds up being closer.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
SF managed to do just that all year long to the tune of the #2 seed
NFC Worst. West. Your arguement is invalid
by B_Robichaux31 on Jan 5, 2012 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
You do realize that SF was putting up impressive numbers against teams outside the NFC West for the better part of the season, right? And that the Seahawks and Cards may not have been great or even good, but were much improved down the stretch? But most importantly, spelling argument incorrectly when saying someone else’s argument is invalid is just poor form.
Nope…but you sure as hell just proved yours is. Victories over Cincy, Detroit, Philly, Giants and Pitt. Five currently playoff performers and one that frankly should have been. Nice try.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
and do you see any of those teams making a serious deep playoff run?
by B_Robichaux31 on Jan 5, 2012 11:29 AM CST up reply actions
Pit was the most well rounded team in the AFC going into the playoffs before Mendenhall got hurt. And yes, I see them winning this weekend and giving a serious push to the AFC championship game. I also have Cincy winning this weekend and Detroit as well. The Giants/Falcons game is frankly a coin flip.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
Did you see the Pitt/SF game
It was pathetic on both sides
Rothlisberger was injured and couldn’t do anything correct
I have no doubt if Batch would have played the Steelers would have won easily
by mississippisaintsfan on Jan 5, 2012 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
Yes I did…and respectfully disagree. A hobbled Roethlisberger is still better than Charlie Batch.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
You must have missed the Steelers games when Roethlisberger was suspended…they played at a high level without him.
by BlackandGold4ever on Jan 5, 2012 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
and when Rothlisberger sat out re: injuury after he played horrible injured.
"We've established the run; we've established the pass. Now all we have to establish is another championship!"
"Some say the glass is half empty;
Some say the glass is half full.
I say- 'are you going to finish that beer'?"
Roethlisberger’s injury not only limited his mobility, it also affected his passing. San Francisco lives off turnovers, the same as we did in 2009. That year, our takeaways masked a deficient defense. This year, their takeaways mask a deficient offense.
San Francisco may be the poster child in 2011 for winning with field goals…but they didn’t play the Saints in the Dome. Whatever else you may say is invalid if you leave out that factor: the Saints in the Dome.
"Sinn Féin, motherf*****s!"
I agree…my disagreement was with the fact they he thought they would have won with Batch.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
Didnt they go 4-0 with batch at the begining of the year
by mississippisaintsfan on Jan 5, 2012 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
No, you’re thinking of last year where they went with a mixture of Batch, Dixon and what’s his name from Marshall.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
And they went 3-1 I think? But won primarily through defensive effort with the exception of 1 game.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
And Dixon,
despite being really mediocre overall, I think had a couple really big plays/series if I remember properly.
maybe they win, maybe they don't
but at least they would have had a “better” chance at winning with Batch instead of Wheelcharisberger
by B_Robichaux31 on Jan 5, 2012 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
*Wheelchairisberger
correction for the grammar nazis out there
by B_Robichaux31 on Jan 5, 2012 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
He had four turnovers in that game…Batch wouldn’t have done that.
by BlackandGold4ever on Jan 5, 2012 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
Unknown what Batch would have done. For all we know he could have had none…or seven. He didn’t play…so we don’t know.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
Well, just for your benefit, I went through his game logs and he has never committed 4 turnovers in a game…even while with Detroit.
by BlackandGold4ever on Jan 5, 2012 1:00 PM CST up reply actions
And in defense of the Steelers staff
it’s not like Ben hasn’t gone out hurt and straight whipped someone’s butt before. Still, feel like he shoulda sat that game out. He looked terrible before, during, and after.
I know I'm late to this party Jeff, but
I also have Cincy winning this weekend and Detroit as well.
Are you saying the Saints are going to lose on Saturday Jan 7, 2012 to the Detroit Lions? I just want to see if I have read this correctly.
"Move over Marino, there's a new Brees coming through town!"-Jim Henderson
That’s his prediction. Wouldn’t outright shock me, but I have the Saints this week.
In order of confidence:
1. Steelers > Broncos
2. Saints > Lions
3. Bengals > Texans
4. Giants > Falcons
That last one should be the best game of the week. I can easily see either team winning. Just going with NY because their at home.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
I actually
Am in 100% agreement with those picks.
I like Hamburgers!
Uh oh...better put an Asterisk on it.
I picked
Broncos over Steelers.
Everything else matches my picks.
Course I’m trying to make up some ground in the Pick-em contest.
Drew Brees....MVS Most Valuable Saint! Who Dat!!!
by cajuncommando58 on Jan 6, 2012 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
Pittsburgh with a hobbled QB who should have been sitting on the sidelines…Cincy is one of the youngest teams and they beat them with a rookie QB in week 3…Philly? Do you really need somebody to explain the mess that they are?…Giants are wildly inconsistent…I’ll give you the Lions game as they came out and beat them, although I’ll say that Detroit got exposed a bit starting with that game.
by BlackandGold4ever on Jan 5, 2012 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
They played in the same division last year without Akers and didn’t convert nearly as many FGs. But yeah, let’s overlook that and label the constant a determining factor.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
yeah
we've got a 100% record this season against the NFC West
That could`ve been me,a useless gnome* fishing
for turds in a birthing pool.
At least you put it down. I respect that. People act like I want to lose…I simply don’t see things through rose colored glasses. I hope we win…I hope we win 40-0…I simply have no faith that we will.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
sorry, I was busy for a while
Put me down for 38-14.
by B_Robichaux31 on Jan 5, 2012 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
Lions 17 Saints 27
Don’t think this is going to be the offensive supershow everyone expects, from either team. I believe both teams’ defenses will play above their real ability thanks to an abundance of motivation and excitement. Have to give the edge to the Saints offense, though.
Also
I think the Lions will shoot themselves in the foot again with penalties in general, and false starts in particular. They will be wound pretty tight for this. Also, after spending this past Sunday in the Dome for the first time and hearing how loud it really gets in there, I can’t imagine what it’s like during a night game, and how hard it would be for an opposing offense to operate in, especially a team made up of a lot of guys that have never even been to the playoffs before.
Saints-38
Lions-23
"Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people. " -Carl Sagan
by crescendo2020 on Jan 6, 2012 12:01 AM CST up reply actions
Something is happening that nobody has been paying attention to?
Like us holding teams to 20 points or less? We’ve done so for five straight weeks…including against Detroit.
As for the 3 dimes +, only St. Louis (fluke), Houston (with a healthy team), and Green Bay have done that to us this season.
by BlackandGold4ever on Jan 5, 2012 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
Everyone is acting like holding a team to 20 is a big deal. 22 teams in the NFL averaged less than 24 points a game.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
not getting blown out
or even close to it is a good thing.
\//\// ||-|| (()) ||)) //-\ =||=
You wiped the floor with victory, then puked until you fell asleep - Flogging Molly
by cockynessIsWHODAT on Jan 5, 2012 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed. Everyone's attitude that we'll breeze through this game though is flat out ridiculous.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
We will Brees through this game...
42-24
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by Dave Cariello on Jan 5, 2012 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
i don't think we'll soar thru it, no.
but i think we’ll be able to keep the Detroit O under wraps. whether by spontaneous turnovers, or just getting them off the field on 3rd down.
this is the playoffs. the D’s time to shine is now. they’ve got to have a bit of a chip on their shoulder for all the recognition the O is getting. we’re back in prime time in our house. sh*ts gonna happen.
one way or another, the Lions Offense will not be as prolific as others are imagining.
\//\// ||-|| (()) ||)) //-\ =||=
You wiped the floor with victory, then puked until you fell asleep - Flogging Molly
by cockynessIsWHODAT on Jan 5, 2012 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think we will do as good as lately
especially if the Lions don’t commit 11 or whatever ungodly number of ridiculous penalties this game.
Also looks like their best secondary player will be back, along with Suh, and Nick Fairley who was wreaking havoc (well, somewhat) with our O-line until he got injured in the first quarter.
I’m also wondering if GW is just going to double team Calvin every play again this game.
"Move over Marino, there's a new Brees coming through town!"-Jim Henderson
How many teams had an average point differential of 13?
by BlackandGold4ever on Jan 5, 2012 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
If it’s the first 3rd down of the drive and you haven’t given up any first downs, it is. Otherwise, field position must be taken into account. Even if they wind up punting, you’ve worsened your own offense’s starting position by bending.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
can never figure out why you are so negative to the Saints?
you were really down on the O Line until a) they made the pro-bowl 2) receive awards re: protection of the QB 3) helped the Saints finish 13-3 with the best offense possibly in the history of the league setting multiple records and having awesome stats in passing AND rushing the ball. .
All that made your bitching about the O- Line look quite foolish. Now, you want to bad mouth the defense. When they outperform the Lions on Saturday, you’ll probably just say it was the crowd noise. Any defense that can limit offenses to 2tds or less per game is a good defense. That’s about all you can expect to do (especially in our division) with the new rules version that allows the passing game to have more of a chance to excel.
"We've established the run; we've established the pass. Now all we have to establish is another championship!"
"Some say the glass is half empty;
Some say the glass is half full.
I say- 'are you going to finish that beer'?"
by Philinwood on Jan 5, 2012 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
30 years + of getting hopes up and getting s&*t on.
So we win one year and I’m supposed to think everything’s changed? Last year proved that wasn’t the case. Go to the NFC Championship game again and we’ll see.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
well, you're welcome to be eternally negative
but you should take into consideration, as far as the last 5 years are concerened, we are on a level with the Patriots, Packers, Ravens, Eagles (above the Eagles- they have been successful but no trophy) , and Pittsburgh,Giants, etc . We make the playoffs almost every year and won the SB, went to the NFL Championship, and are now selected by SI to go all the way. Aints we aint no more.
"We've established the run; we've established the pass. Now all we have to establish is another championship!"
"Some say the glass is half empty;
Some say the glass is half full.
I say- 'are you going to finish that beer'?"
You’re right…we aren’t what we used to be. But we’re still the team that had the most embarrassing loss in the history of the NFL in the playoffs by losing to a 7-9 team. The Saints need to erase that memory forever….one more one and done and we will forever be dismissed in the playoffs until we win the big one all over again.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
I would say Houston giving up 32 points on a come back to Buffalo in the early 90's
Was probably the most embaresing play-off lose of all time
by mississippisaintsfan on Jan 5, 2012 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
Wouldn’t call that embarrassing at all. Sucky yes…but then again they lost to a team that a good many expected them to lose to, especially since it was an away game.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
Wasn't that a Buffalo team that went to the Superbowl?
"I'm in the Courtroom screaming Who Dat on the double, serving gumbo with a shovel, dog i'm on another level" -Jay Electonica
Yup.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
To a backup QB, though.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
To be fair, that wasn't even the most embarassing moment of last year.
The Falcons getting home field throughout the playoffs, only to get reamed by Green Bay, who was the fifth- or sixth seed at home?? That was far worse. (Or better, based on your POV).
The Saints last year went into Seattle with no running game, defensive backs off the street, and no concept of tackling. That’s what killed them.
This team is loads better on both sides of the ball. I’m more worried about Frisco and that Candlestick advantage than I am about Detroit. They can score, but can they defend?? Plus, the Saints bring their A+ game in prime time at home, and that usually is enough.
And if they beat the Niners, I’m favoring them to run the table and shock Green Bay, frozen tundra or not. We CAN smash them with our running game, they can’t.
As a Pats fan, I can guarantee you that was not the most embarrassing playoff loss.
Pedey: Dear Playstation, So MLB the Show '09 says I can't hit the high and inside, huh? That's ridiculous, ask Ramon.
Ramon: Yeah, he can hit it. In fact, if I were to die today and went to some weird...(grabs script) some weird limbo afterlife, where I can gaze at one thing for eternity. Dustin's swing, or my daggers? (DAUGHTERS!) daughter's first steps, I would choose that swing.
Lazer Show: I can hit that pitch!
by BrokenbatGrandSlam on Jan 5, 2012 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
I can only assume you’re referring to Super Bowl 20. Believe me…that’s not more embarrassing. You lost to one of the greatest teams in history. We on the other hand…had national articles written about us stating we were the first team in history to lose on a bye week.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
I'm not that old, I'm talking about SB 42.
Pedey: Dear Playstation, So MLB the Show '09 says I can't hit the high and inside, huh? That's ridiculous, ask Ramon.
Ramon: Yeah, he can hit it. In fact, if I were to die today and went to some weird...(grabs script) some weird limbo afterlife, where I can gaze at one thing for eternity. Dustin's swing, or my daggers? (DAUGHTERS!) daughter's first steps, I would choose that swing.
Lazer Show: I can hit that pitch!
by BrokenbatGrandSlam on Jan 5, 2012 5:11 PM CST up reply actions
Definitely not even in the top 20 most embarrassing playoff losses. Especially when you consider how they played you in the final game of the season.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
Yep. What If Sports played that SB 100 times going in and the Giants won something like 40 of them. People were so caught up in the perfect season hype, that no one recognized it for what it was … a fairly even matchup.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
So we win one year and I’m supposed to think everything’s changed?
You’re supposed to believe everything’s changed because over the past 6 years the Saints have won a Super Bowl, been to the NFC Championship game, and made the playoffs 4 out of those 6 years. This ain’t yo pappy’s Saints.
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by Dave Cariello on Jan 5, 2012 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
I tried to feel that way….and then we lost to the Seahawks causing everyone I have ever met in r/t laugh and mock us through everything. All i hear every single day sitting in my cube regarding the playoffs is people’s laughter saying “yea right…you’ll lose again just like you did vs the Seahawks”. In the eyes of everyone outside of the gulf area…that one loss practically erased everything we did in the previous 5 years. Sad…but very, very, very true.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
Who do people in Montana root for?
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by Dave Cariello on Jan 5, 2012 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
Everyone basically.
Big ones are Dallas, Denver, SF, Hawks, GB, Vikes, Pats. Without a team within 10 hours driving distance there’s not one fan base. So you have the people who either root for a decently close team geography wise…or a team that was amazingly popular during a certain period of time….hence the 49ers, Cowboys and Pats.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
Yea right. All they do is stick their nose up in the air and count their number of championships.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
Time to man up your to thin skinned
The way I see it the Packer fans are the only ones that can talk s*** to you since they are the only ones to win a superbowl since us
by mississippisaintsfan on Jan 5, 2012 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
Dude.
I really felt like you were just a Negative Nelly who had forgotten how to hope thanks to years of getting your dreams crushed, but it really is starting to feel like you just have a huge inferiority complex. Let’s fix this.
*shrugs*
Let’s win this weekend…it’ll help.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
WHAT!!!
A loss in seattle, one of the hardest places to play, does NOT negate what we’ve done. Records mean nothing once the playoffs start. You need to root for another team if ur not happy with what we have here now. what more do u want? I hate to call u an idiot, so I wont, but im close
by touchdown my pants on Jan 5, 2012 12:28 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I don’t think he was speaking for himself…I think he meant in the eyes of the many, many non-Saints fans still allowed in this country.
"Sinn Féin, motherf*****s!"
Exactly.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
Why do you care so much about what other people think of the team you root for?
What matters is what Saints fans think of the Saints!
Who gives a bleep as long as we’re winning???
Expect more...you'll get more...and if you don't, start over!
by Stilljreming on Jan 5, 2012 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
I do. It's about respect. I want the team to be looked on from the outside like people view the Packers, the Steelers, the Pats, etc. You may not like them...but you respect them. That is something we don't have because of our history.
Respect as far as I’m concerned is the only thing that matters.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
I don't know where you live, but a lot of people respect...
…and even fear or hate the Saints!
People trash talk, and of course they’re gonna bring up the Seahawks game! But people respect them
Also, it’s gonna take more time at the top for us to be completely viewed with teams that have been doing it forever like the Pats
As for the Cowboys, it’s all perception! they haven’t won in forever, and you can’t do anything about perception!
Expect more...you'll get more...and if you don't, start over!
by Stilljreming on Jan 5, 2012 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, and WINNING is the only thing that matters!!!
Expect more...you'll get more...and if you don't, start over!
by Stilljreming on Jan 5, 2012 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
No. Winning without respect...respect for yourself, respect for your team, respect for the game, and respect from your peers...is pointless.
Cheaters and frauds care about winning at the expense of everything else.
Lunch time…I’ll read the flaming again when I get back.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
I agree with Al Davis
Just win baby
by mississippisaintsfan on Jan 5, 2012 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
Winning without respect…respect for yourself
You don’t feel/think the Saints have accomplished this?!!
respect for your team
You don’t hear the grumbling from the locker room or on the field like the Jets (see Greg McElroy) with this team do you?
You don’t hear about Philly’s “Dream Team” not accomplishing everything that on paper should have them in the Super Bowl this year when you hear of this Saints team?
respect for the game
Ok, so the Saints are dirty and classless.Got me
respect from your peers
60% of the Pro Bowl NFC offensive line are Saints players. Yes there is a fan vote, but still.
"Move over Marino, there's a new Brees coming through town!"-Jim Henderson
What the hell are you talking about?
This conversation had absolutely nothing to do with how the Saints view themselves or how I view the Saints. It wasn’t even Saint related. It had to do with the comment that winning is the only thing that mattered.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
I guess
I read it wrong, sorry. I was driving whilst reading, which I shouldnt do.
If others are talkin about us that means they fear us. Its kinda like bad publicity is better than no publicity
by touchdown my pants on Jan 5, 2012 3:26 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Jeff,
Wake up. How old are you? This is the real world and people will always say bad things about the Saints. But they’re saying those things because they fear us and they know at any given time, the Saints can kick their teams ass. Is the Saints your team? If so, start talking positive and stop listening to all that bull. Besides, you really know the Saints will kick the Lions’ ass. Give all your fellow cubers a big WHO DAT, don’t give in and let them know that the Saints will be victorious Saturday night and we will move on.
Jeff,
I’m not offending you by telling you this^. But it just kind of pisses me off that you let what other people say get to you. I have been a Saints fan since 1970 and throughout those years I have heard thousands or hundreds of thousands of bad remarks about the Saints. I let it go, continued watching my Saints and it paid off. These last 6 years have been the best Saints years of my life and I think we will be in this stage for awhile. If I would have thought like you, I guess maybe I would have stopped being a Saints fan in 1971. It really does sound like you are no longer a Saints fan, if you were ever really one to begin with. I consider a Saints fan to not give up, be true to the team wether they’re winning or not and although there are players you may not like is no reason to give up on the entire organization. WHO DAT!
Leave Jeff alone Tommy
Every body harassed him for picking against us. Every time he picked against us we won. Guess what. He abstained, from predicting in the Rams Prediction contest, and we lost. So leave him alone. Keep up the good work Jeff.
Drew Brees....MVS Most Valuable Saint! Who Dat!!!
by cajuncommando58 on Jan 6, 2012 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
I can understand picking the score against us that's not the problem.
But no matter what thread we’re on, he always puts down the Saints. Sounds to me like he has another team and he just comes on hear and states that he is a Saints fan. Why? Only he knows. But uh, he can’t convince me that he is a Saints fan.
Come on, now
Jeff sounds to me like a long-suffering Saints fan (emphasis on the suffering), who’s, let’s say cautiously optimistic about the future of the franchise. But he’s also watched this defense consistently play inconsistently over the past several years and after last year’s debacle in Seattle isn’t ready to sign off on a game everyone is treating like a ‘sure thing’, particularly given the Saints historical penchant for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
And for the record, downtrodden fans are still fans and questioning someone’s commitment to the team they root for is just not cool. Also, downtrodden fans are my favorite; they’re normally the funniest.
I used to be a long time suffering Saints fan myself.
Difference between he and myself is that I never gave up or made terrible comments like he has towards the Saints. Oh and by the way, he NEVER roots for this Saints team.
How could you possibly know how he watches the games to assert that he “NEVER roots for this Saints team”. I’ve rooted for teams before while being sure they were terrible and were going to lose the game. He clearly has a vested interest in the team, or he wouldn’t be a commenter here. And I’ve never once seen him post something inflammatory along the lines of “Brees sux!” or “Fire Payton!”. He may have negative comments but they aren’t unwarranted and the unbridled optimism around here could do with some tempering.
Just as many of us view the team through rose-colored glasses,
Jeff sees it through poo-stained ones. I think we all need to go visit a good optometrist.
I'm curious to see the blitz numbers
from the past month. It definitely feels like they have slowed down.
69% third down blitzing. That’s all I know regarding that.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
I'm cool with that
As the post states, we’ve been good on 3rd. I do agree with you, it doesn’t much matter if they’re converting firsts right away on 1st and 2nd, so I’d like to see more solid, less exotic, less blitz happy packages on those downs, with a healthy helping of blitz on 3rds. I know that’s probably too vanilla for G-Dub, and certainly gives offenses the ability to exploit personnel weaknesses, but still. Leaving our suspect LB corps all alone trying to stop a runner because he’s already past the half of the defense you blitzed into the backfield doesn’t seem like a good way to hide deficiencies either.
Every game, when a RB busts one for 30 yards or a receiver
Catches a little 5 yard hitch and rambles 15 – 20 yards on the Saints D, I have to keep reminding myself over and over.. " look at the score “, …” look at the score "..The score board does not lie.
Saints D r dangerous
No matter how many yards they allow in a game, they got the stop when they needed to! Look at both of the Dirty Birds, Clawless Bears, just to name a few, game and you will see that our defense applied the {bend but don’t break} rule! They put up the stop that’s most important in the game, on 3rd down and 4th down! We Got This One! All the way to the SUPERBOWL!
"We, in our building, didn't feel like we needed to have Reggie Bush to have a successful offense. We've had lots of games over the last five years where Reggie was unavailable. And yet, we've been able to move the ball, score points and win games at the same rate as when we did have Reggie." -- Saints General Manager Mickey Loomis
"Dangerous"
is a good word to describe a “bend but don’t break” defense in the playoffs. I do agree our D has come a long way since the beginning of the season, but I want them to continue to tighten as we go through the playoffs. I personally think they will. Our guys have been here before, know what to expect, and I think the youngsters on the squad are hungry enough to want to shine and perform better than they did earlier in the season.
Impressive stat
But as someone pointed out, Carolina scored a lot of their points on 1st or 2nd down. Anyone know how many 3rd downs we defended vs. the league, or the rate at which we gave up 1st downs? I think those would help give our defensive 3rd down % context.
I think the important stat is PPG allowed. This defense, much like Green Bay, Indy and the Pats, is built to protect a lead. This difference is, our version protects the lead while also gambling a lot, thanks to Mr. Williams. Once we got the O-line working the offense starting building early leads and the defense has been able to play to its strengths. The only team that can really knock us off that formula is SF, but they don’t exactly have an offense that’s strikes fear in my heart.
Also, it would be nice if we caught a few more INTs. Especially when they hit players in the hands.
Carolina scored a lot of points?
They only scored 17 last time I looked. Jeff wants to hit the panic button no matter what and some of y’all are just falling in line without looking at the last half of the season.
by BlackandGold4ever on Jan 5, 2012 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
“Carolina scored a lot of their points” is not the same as “Carolina scored a lot of points”. You picked the first line of my post to comment on and changed the meaning of what I said.
Dave, I couldn't agree more!
We don’t get many sacks, but our qb pressure, which is only in the medium range, is consistent and constant. I wish it could be better, but it has shown glimpses of being better. We have played good against the run, reasonable against the pass, great on 3rd (and 4th) downs, and we don’t give up a ton of points. That’s a recipe for a good defense. Not a great defense, but a good defense.
One of the reasons we give up so many yards is the fact that our offense scores so often and gives the opponent the ball at the 20 yd line because of Morestads constant touchbacks, the opponent has 80 yards to accumulate yardage and we prevent the big play at the expense of being a little soft on the short passes. After we give up yardage, we are real stingy re TDs .
"We've established the run; we've established the pass. Now all we have to establish is another championship!"
"Some say the glass is half empty;
Some say the glass is half full.
I say- 'are you going to finish that beer'?"
Just an observation
The starting postition of the opposing team is usually the 20 because of like you said. During the 2009 campaign, we came up with more turnovers because of our scheme of playing zone coverage and having the abilty to rush the passer more effectivley than we can now.
Our scheme now is trying to to get to the passrr and playing more man to man. In zone coverage the DBs Face the quarter back. In man coverage they don’t.
Its easier to play zone defense in a shorter field than in a longer field I.e. 1st and 10the at their own 20.
Drew looks like a demon possessed,
or a SAINT that's BLESSED.
by MattDat on Jan 5, 2012 12:02 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
detroit scores 21 AT THE MOST
done
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You wiped the floor with victory, then puked until you fell asleep - Flogging Molly
by cockynessIsWHODAT on Jan 5, 2012 11:57 AM CST reply actions
Here are some words of wisdom
…regarding defensive stats.
“I think that the best defenses allow one less point than their offense scores…I think we need to take more of a chess approach. Nobody cares in chess how many pawns you give up or if you sacrifice your queen. They care about if you win the game, whether you get checkmate or not. And I think that’s the only thing that’s important, not stats.”
"Sinn Féin, motherf*****s!"
by MtnExile on Jan 5, 2012 12:01 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
National sports pundits = LAZY
Lazy, lazy, lazy. They enter their analysis with preconceived notions and pick and choose stats that help back that up while ignoring stats that don’t back it up. Laziness.
Good defense of the Saints defense, Dave. You’re apparently the only person on the web or TV willing to take the time to lay out this argument. I too think Gregg Williams will come in with a plan to first take away Calvin Johnson by double-teaming the hell outta him and then having a plan in place to slow down their RBs. It’s time for Shaun Rogers and Obrayo Franklin to earn their money. This is why they were signed this past summer. I like our chances for a Lions beat-down.
"As soon as Tony (Dungy) said we had no chance, I knew we had 'em right where we wanted 'em"--Coach Sean Payton right after Super Bowl XLIV with the Lombardi Trophy firmly in hand. WHO DAT!!
by David "Satch" Kelly on Jan 5, 2012 12:05 PM CST reply actions
couldn’t agree more.
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You wiped the floor with victory, then puked until you fell asleep - Flogging Molly
by cockynessIsWHODAT on Jan 5, 2012 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
Getting off the field on third down is fine, but if it isn’t the culmination of a three-and-out, you’re not doing your job as a defense. Stopping the opposing team from scoring and getting the ball back into your offense’s hands as quickly as possible are the two biggest fundamentals of any defense. If you’re only doing half of that effectively, you’re not a very good defense.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
They're not a very good defense, but 13th in points allowed is middle of the pack
and with our offense, I don’t think we need a top 5 defense!
We won it all with a middle of the road defense before!
And there is no defense that always forces three and outs, not even the Steelers’!
Expect more...you'll get more...and if you don't, start over!
by Stilljreming on Jan 5, 2012 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
There are many teams that force three and outs more often. We won it all with a middle of the road defense that forced a ton of turnovers, which compensated for those shortcomings. We haven’t done that this season. This article is also about the effectiveness of the defense in and of itself, not as it relates to the offense. A shutdown defense doesn’t need a top 10 offense, either. That doesn’t mean a team with a shutdown defense should beat their chests when their offense happens to gain a first down every so often. If they’re not doing it regularly and to its most effective extent, they’re still a sh*** y offense. There’s no sugar coating that. Same thing here.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
The 49ers have, in your words, a "bleep" offense
and a great D… that didn’t keep them from being a #2 seed, with as good a chance as anyone to go to the SB!
Very few teams in the league have both top 5 offense and defense (except for the crazy Chargers last year).
13th in scoring, 12th against the rush, it’s not stellar, but it’s not sh***y in a league with 32 teams! it’s clearly above average (average being, mathematically 16th)
You can be a perfectionist, I have nothing against that, but sh***y is completely a negatively subjective description!
Expect more...you'll get more...and if you don't, start over!
by Stilljreming on Jan 5, 2012 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
I think you believe a good defense trumps a good offense
Maybe the was the way it used to be but with all the new rules slanting to the offense I think that is backwards
I believe a good offense trumps a good defense
by mississippisaintsfan on Jan 5, 2012 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
I mean, if I said Tyler Palko isn’t a bad QB, because he leads the league in gaining first downs on his initial set of downs, would you agree with me? Or would you be quick to point out that he doesn’t do a whole lot beyond that first down?
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
The most important thing in football is scoring (offense and defense)!!!
Scoring defense is the most important defensive stat, and that’s why I mention and emphasize it! Gaining 1st downs means nothing on the scoreboard!
Good example, but fatally flawed!
Expect more...you'll get more...and if you don't, start over!
by Stilljreming on Jan 5, 2012 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
The defense that forces the most three and outs is guaranteed to be one of the top defenses in fewest points scored. Aim higher. It doesn’t hurt.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
I agree with aiming higher, I agree with trying to be the best of the best!
I simply don’t agree with seeing everything worse than it really is,
unless that is your method to try and be better!
Again, this is not a sh****y defense. It’s not a great one, but not a sh****y one! (I know, I’m harping on that, but it’s an important point)
I know some people need to always minimize their accomplishments to
be able to accomplish more! I guess I’m not on of those, I prefer looking at what
I do well, and take it as something encouraging me to aim for more!
Expect more...you'll get more...and if you don't, start over!
by Stilljreming on Jan 5, 2012 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
I’d rather call a spade a spade. To each his own, I guess.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
There are big spades and smaller ones! :-)
Expect more...you'll get more...and if you don't, start over!
by Stilljreming on Jan 5, 2012 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
This might be a good time
to bring up Stujo’s chicken salad/chickens—- analogy. I think they’re doing well with what they have.
This isn't about rules, it's about manners. Now there's no rule that says that I cant come over here and fart on your entree. But I don't do it. Why? Because it's not good manners.
Well heres good news for everyone
The NFL network is replaying the Saints/Lions game from earlier this year tonight
by mississippisaintsfan on Jan 5, 2012 12:37 PM CST reply actions
dave, you convinced me. I knew they were good on third down but the points over their last eight is to me a great sign. That’s a huge sample size and not Just the last few weeks.
"Saints fans should be sending Paul Tagliabue primo Hollywood quality hookers monthly for the remainder of his life"---Andrew Juge
Not buying the Debbie Downer argument
Name of the game is to win. Saints won 8 in a row. Defense is good enough for this offense. Frisco reminds me of early 90s Saints…a stout defense is not enough. And Lions also have NO pass defense and no running game. Saints by 10 to 14.
"I have had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it." Groucho Marx
Good point
If the 49ers are now playing the part of the Saints, the Saints are now playing the part of the 49ers. It would be delicious if we went into their stadium, allowed them to hang with us for a half, and then calmly shifted into 6th gear while they’re stuck in 3rd.
Drew = Joe. Suck on it, Frisco.
"Sinn Féin, motherf*****s!"
by MtnExile on Jan 5, 2012 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Drew = Joe. Suck on it, Frisco.
hehe, absolutely. I don’t hate Frisco but I don’t like them all that much either for all those years of their refined passing attack (qb who could run through his reads fast) with sneaky power running added in there more than you remember after the game and you knew if they had the ball last, they would win with Montana carving you up. It was nice when we did that to them last year.
Reporter: What would you say a Greg Studrawa offense is like? Stud:
"Attack and be very physical…fly around…attacking, come after you and come after you and come after you…." Me: I love this answer.
GET TO THE RIM HEAT (and SKY)! ATTACK THE PAINT!
*if they had the ball last with a chance to win,...
Reporter: What would you say a Greg Studrawa offense is like? Stud:
"Attack and be very physical…fly around…attacking, come after you and come after you and come after you…." Me: I love this answer.
GET TO THE RIM HEAT (and SKY)! ATTACK THE PAINT!
Media bias towards the Saints just motivates us more
I believe it was ESPN a week or so ago were showing the top plays of 2010.. I happen to catch a glimpse of the Saints in the preview, so I stuck around to watch, Now this was just after the weekend Brees had set a new passing record right, So I’m thinking great he made the top moment of all sports, well lo n behold what the freak play do the show.. friggin Lynch running over the D in last years playoffs.. now tell me how does that justify the top play, and this was in all sports better then a record breaker.. I mean dang if at all it was all sports how bout that surfer riding that monster wave, but by no means that one play.
You know Hartman, goodie-two-shoes is fidgeting around like a one-legged cat trying to bury s#!t on a frozen pond, until old Seth fixes him a couple of pink poontang specials. You know, that crazy drink that I fix for stewardesses? Two shots out of that and Hartman is shot to s#!t, freaked out. I mean, I never saw a guy having so much fun and crying at the same time!
It easily trumps it…not even close. It’s the biggest PLAY of the year. What’s a bigger play on the basis of that play and that play alone…..a guy running over 3/4 of the other defense to score a long TD run….or an 8 yard TD pass to an RB that doesn’t get touched? It’s not disrepect…it was the obvious choice.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
my bad 2011
You know Hartman, goodie-two-shoes is fidgeting around like a one-legged cat trying to bury s#!t on a frozen pond, until old Seth fixes him a couple of pink poontang specials. You know, that crazy drink that I fix for stewardesses? Two shots out of that and Hartman is shot to s#!t, freaked out. I mean, I never saw a guy having so much fun and crying at the same time!
There should be no surprise that the defense is getting better.
Saints started this year with 2 new defensive tackles, a rookie left end, and their right end on suspension. All this in one of the most complex defenses in the league. I understand that defensive lines don’t need as much coordination training as offensive lines, but there are still issues jumping between a 4-3 and a 3-4, and IMO the 3-4 look has made the most progress the last 8 games.
I think we will see a defensive approach similar to last time: stuff the run, double Calvan, and hope the d-backs can keep up with the other receivers.
Defense must Stay in Staffords face
And I’m sure our O line can contain Avril and Suh.
You know Hartman, goodie-two-shoes is fidgeting around like a one-legged cat trying to bury s#!t on a frozen pond, until old Seth fixes him a couple of pink poontang specials. You know, that crazy drink that I fix for stewardesses? Two shots out of that and Hartman is shot to s#!t, freaked out. I mean, I never saw a guy having so much fun and crying at the same time!
The stats you bring up are ones that matter...
Points given up (as you say over the last 8 games, the Saints are good) and opponents third down conversion rate which the Saints are good at. I like that the rookies are getting better. Cam Jordan is making more of an impact and Wilson looks fast on blitzes when he gets in there—think he has a lot of potential.
Reporter: What would you say a Greg Studrawa offense is like? Stud:
"Attack and be very physical…fly around…attacking, come after you and come after you and come after you…." Me: I love this answer.
GET TO THE RIM HEAT (and SKY)! ATTACK THE PAINT!
Total QBR
Not sure if anyone else has been following this new stat from ESPN, but I kinda like it better than Passer Rating. Anyway, here you can find the final QBR for each QB this season. Aaron Rodgers and Brees are separated by 1.2 points (Rodgers 85.2, Brees 84.0) at the top and the third QB is Tom Brady….at 74.2! Both Rodgers and Brees played 10% better than the next closest quarterback. That’s pretty crazy to me. I really hope we play GB again in the NFCCG, I’d love a week 1 rematch.
Complete vindication...
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by Dave Cariello on Jan 5, 2012 3:14 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
How is that complete vindication?
What do you expect him to say? Of course he’s going to point to another stat. He’s not going to come out and say he’s done a poor job.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
Wow, Jeff.
Just…wow.
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by Dave Cariello on Jan 5, 2012 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
*shrug*
It’s true. We’re excellent on third down. thumbs up. Now if he can teach the team how to tackle, how to get to the QB, and how to catch the ball on defense…we’ll be golden.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
I did very much enjoy your posting the GW tweet about guys not catching a cold butt naked in a rain storm. At least he's aware of that.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
Sometimes
you just cant please everybody
by B_Robichaux31 on Jan 5, 2012 3:29 PM CST up reply actions
I'll make a deal with you dave.
We hold the lions to under 24 pts (and win) and don’t drop a deuce at SF…I will write a nice post completely saying how wrong I was to feel this way about our defense and that I’m sorry for being so negative regarding them.
Of course if I’m correct…I would like at least a grudging nod that says “Ok maybe Jeff isn’t a total ass, but instead chooses to look at things with a complete impartial brush as to the validity of the team without letting being a fan distract from the truth”.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
Yippy Drew Years to you Jeff and
Good Night!
Drew Brees....MVS Most Valuable Saint! Who Dat!!!
by cajuncommando58 on Jan 5, 2012 3:35 PM CST up reply actions
We’ll have a dipping sauce prepared for your crow.
by B_Robichaux31 on Jan 5, 2012 3:38 PM CST up reply actions
I look forward to eating it….as it means we won. If the unfortunate happens and I’m right, however…I expect people to be adult about it and admit it. Instead of the usual hiding being “bad ref calls” and the like.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
You will
get as much from me. I know very well that anything can happen i.e. “any given sunday”. I just rather be optimistic about the turnout.
by B_Robichaux31 on Jan 5, 2012 3:42 PM CST up reply actions
Can I still complain about the refs if I also admit you were right about the defense? I really like complaining about refs.
Only if they make an obvious bad call. Unlike 98% of the time where it can go either way but people act like they were paid off. Out of curiosity…anyone know the refs for the game?
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
no, just hoping
its not Mike Carrey’s crew
by B_Robichaux31 on Jan 5, 2012 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
Just looked it up. Tony Corrente and his crew.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
was looking on nfl.com
couldnt find it. thanks for ending my futile search
by B_Robichaux31 on Jan 5, 2012 3:52 PM CST up reply actions
I just get cranky when there’s a lot of yellow or if it seems like the officiating seems uneven to me.
Although, I was pretty hot when they overturned Graham’s TD a few weeks ago (why can’t I remember which game that was?). Mainly I was mad because I was seriously worried that would be Drew’s only pass TD of the game and that very, very close call would be the difference in him missing Unitas’ record. Luckily, it turns out I was just worrying too much.
Are you referring to the touchdown where his tippy toe moved a single blade of white grass? How is it, that you can tap your toes in bounds, but if your heels touch first, all-of-a-sudden, your whole foot is required to be in bounds? That makes the littlest amount of sense to me.
"Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people. " -Carl Sagan
by crescendo2020 on Jan 6, 2012 12:27 AM CST up reply actions
If you have a couple hours of free time
you can go back and look at the thread where this was discussed after it happened. Pretty entertaining read.
no, because then you will sound like a Lions fan
like they complained about last week vs GB
by B_Robichaux31 on Jan 5, 2012 3:44 PM CST up reply actions
I know the challenge was issued to Dave, but I'll take it
if you’ll allow stand-ins. Sounds like fun. What if we beat the Lions but they score like 30 and we don’t drop a number two in Cali? Would I still have to write it?
If I win nobody has to write anything. I’m the only one that eats crow. All that happens if I’m unfortunately correct…is for someone to say…“you know what Jeff…I guess you were right in that we over estimated our defense after all.”
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
Look...
We’ve got what we’ve got. We will never be known as some hardcore defensive team and the league is moving further away from that anyway.
At this time all we can say is that they are improving, they have done enough to hold opponents scores relatively low regardless of yardage, we have the #3 seed and are in the playoffs.
Let’s take it for what it is and be happy with what we have.
A side question (wasn't sure where else to ask this, sorry) - there isn't really a place for me to ask serious questions
What do you guys think of the passer rating differential determining the winner of the SB? Forgive me if it’s already been discussed on here and I missed it.
I read an article about it yesterday. When I looked up the ratings for 2011 GB was #1 and we were #2 but their rating was almost double ours – at least on the site I found.
It’s an interesting statistic, but fairly ridiculous pointing to that claiming the winner. What it’s shown though is that a team that has a QB playing at an incredibly high level has a much greater chance at success than a team that doesn’t. Which honestly….kind of just screams “duh”.
It’s simply another feather in the cap of thinking that you can’t win in this league consistently without a top tier QB. Which has been pretty much true for the past 15 years or so. There’s always the anomaly of course (Brad Johnson, Dilfer), but when 13 out of 15 SB winners can be attributed to a team with a top 5-10 QB…says something obviously.
The statistic is also flawed in favor of their analysis. As stated earlier….if you’re going to the SB…chances are you have a top 5-10 QB. Of course teams with the top QBs are going to have the greater differential in passer ratings because they can rely on their passer rating be near the top on a consistent basis week in and week out.
It’s like back in the 80s and 90s, there was an article claiming that eating Reeces Pieces cereal instead of shreaded wheat reduced your chances of cancer. The findings were true. Of course the reasons that the findings were true is that Reeces cereal had about 5 years of data saying “look very few people got cancer”. Didn’t take into account that the people eating it were too young to develop most cancers where as people had been eating shreaded wheat for a century.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
I’m not sure it takes into account the defense so much as the opposing QB. It depends on where you decide to place the fault I guess. I choose to look at it as QB vs QB…since that’s really what’s going on in my opinion. It’s also skews itself oddly because of teams like NO and GB. We’re a scoring team and put up points so that generally forces other teams to become much more 1 dimensional. When that happens, usually the QB rating of the opposition is going to suffer. Drop more people in coverage…picks happen more often, pressure sacks, incompletions etc all of which effect that rating.
I admit it is a very intriguing statistic. However because of how it works I think it lends itself to be more of a fun talking point than any real kind of predictor. It lends itself decently to the current time frame of the league of the new pass happy rules….however, isn’t a statistic I don’t think that will stand the test of time when things begin to re-balance.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
Not sure how the Passer Rating difference fares, but I’ve read that Point Differential, taken over the course of a season, is a fairly good indicator of what a team’s regular season record will be. Grantland (I think it was Bill Barnwell, but might’ve been someone else) had an interesting article at the start of the season where they looked at which teams "out-performed’ their point differential last season and from that predicted teams that would flop this year. Pretty interesting article, I’d recommend it if you’re into statistical sports analysis.
Here’s the link to the story I mentioned: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6918507/part-i. It’s actually a four-part preview and the stat I was remembering is the “Pythagorean expectation” for wins based on point-differential. I’ll crawl back into my nerd corner now.
I’ve read that Point Differential, taken over the course of a season, is a fairly good indicator of what a team’s regular season record will be.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
by coldpizza on Jan 5, 2012 4:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Haha
Pulling out the “Deep Thoughts”, eh? Hilarious segment.
"Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people. " -Carl Sagan
by crescendo2020 on Jan 6, 2012 12:33 AM CST up reply actions
Really?
I’m getting the “Deep Thoughts” treatment for poorly wording an explanation of the Pythagorean expectation for wins based on point differential? I mean, it’s entirely possible for a team with a winning record to have a negative point differential. It’s not like I said the team with more points at the end of the game tends to win.
They’re more right than wrong on this issue. But 51% right qualifies for that, so that isn’t exactly saying as much as their self-congratulatory back-patting sounds like it is.
On the other hand, they’re also more than 51% right. It is important. But you have to be at least decent in that area or you’re never even going to qualify for the playoffs in the first place much less win 3+ games there, however, so it’s probably not quite as critical a factor they make it out to be.
But also note that the passer rating system is pretty crappy in the first place. I’d say subtracting Total QBR (from ESPN) or their “True Passer Rating” instead would be much more likely to actually give you a reasonable value. Unfortunately, I don’t have access to their paid-for stats and I’m not about to give them my money for them at this point in time, and ESPN doesn’t calculate a reverse Total QBR for defenses yet. Maybe next year.
Finally, I’ll also throw out that #2 in this area is still very good. That’s still better than 30 other professional teams.
The inherent importance lies in getting possession back. If that’s occurring to the tune of 3 points scored against you, then you’re not really doing yourself any favors. Better than 7 or 8 points against you obviously, but why not go for the gusto and force a punt? 0 points against and better field position to show for it. That’s about as win-win as you can get. Easier said that done? You bet. No one said having a dominant defense was easy.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
Why do so many people need to make Jeff feel differently about the Saints?
I just had a rap with Santa and we took us a little stroll
And all I want for Christmas is the Saints in the Super Bowl
Maybe it's the other way around.
Maybe Jeff is making the others nervous cause he has something?
Fairley did whatever he wanted on the field (2T-1S) until he sufferred an injury at the end of first quarter. Delmas, Suh and Houston didn’t start. They had two players expeld and a 100 yards losses on penalties. Still, it was a 7 point game going into 4th quarter. And we all know Lions’ offense can put numbers on the board. They even came back from 17 points defecit 3 times on the road this year.
If Suh chooses this Saturday to have a “redemption game”, our O-Line could be in for a very long night…
Repeat? Run it!
I totally agree
Fairley was giving us fits before he had to leave the game. The Lions were without 3 key starters. We used to same excuse when Streif was out. We had a bad game against the Rams cause he was out, and now that he is back, our O Line is clicking. With Suh back, the D-line might start clicking and give us fits. I watch the Lions game and I was surprised at how many big plays the D gave up. Stafford was passing almost at will. We eventually stopped him, but can we do it again? The Lions are well capable of putting up big numbers and their comebacks have made records this year. A lot of people are saying we should steam roll them based on the last time we played them, but like last year, we can’t rely on that. Anything can happen. I want the D to tighten up and hold him to less than 300 yards passing. The Lions put up more passing yards than we did because they don’t have a real run game. We do. But in the case of this game, I think we need to establish the run early and make the Lions stack the box. I know we have the talent to do it, but I don’t want to see a replay of the last game from Stafford this time. If they don’t make the mental mistakes they made last time, it will be a close game and I don’t want to see a close game.
good hypothesis, Frenchie!
Jeff’s touched a nerve in people, and they are actually trying to make themselves feel better when they try to change his mind about things…interesting.
I just had a rap with Santa and we took us a little stroll
And all I want for Christmas is the Saints in the Super Bowl
by Hans Petersen on Jan 6, 2012 8:09 AM CST up reply actions
Yup. Not like I don't want us to win.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
I desperately want a win.
And then 3 more…
I put up a Black and Gold Christmas tree this year. If the Saints win tomorrow, I’m leaving it up until we lose…or win out. And I really don’t want to take it down Sunday…But I’d be very naive not keeping some time in my Sunday schedule to do so…
Repeat? Run it!
Thanks for being in the 1% that gets it.
Let’s hope the tree is still shining in the living room come February.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
Thanks!!!
Somebody gets me.
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by Dave Cariello on Jan 6, 2012 2:02 AM CST up reply actions
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