The final 36 seconds
by coldpizza on Jan 8, 2012 3:51 PM CST
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PrintThis is the play-by-play recap of the Saints' final offensive possession against the Lions:
New Orleans Saints at 3:03
1-10-DET 33 (3:03) C.Ivory right guard to DET 31 for 2 yards (S.Tulloch; J.Durant).
Timeout #2 by DET at 02:57.
2-8-DET 31 (2:57) C.Ivory right end pushed ob at DET 30 for 1 yard (A.Spievey).
3-7-DET 30 (2:50) (Shotgun) D.Brees pass incomplete deep right to M.Colston.
PENALTY on DET-A.Berry, Defensive Pass Interference, 23 yards, enforced at DET 30 - No Play.
1-7-DET 7 (2:44) PENALTY on NO-J.Evans, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at DET 7 - No Play.
1-12-DET 12 (2:44) C.Ivory left guard to DET 2 for 10 yards (N.Suh; K.Vanden Bosch).
Two-Minute Warning
2-2-DET 2 (2:00) D.Brees kneels to DET 3 for -1 yards.
3-3-DET 3 (1:20) D.Brees kneels to DET 4 for -1 yards.
4-4-DET 4 (:38) D.Brees kneels to DET 5 for -1 yards.
Question: Why didn't the clock stop immediately following Brees's 4th down kneel? This was technically a change of possession, yet the clock was allowed to run out. Not that Detroit could have possibly mounted a 17 point comeback from their own 6 yard line with 36 seconds left. I'm just curious as to why this occurred. Was some little known mercy rule enforced?
This FanPost was written by a reader and member of Canal Street Chronicles. It does not necessarily reflect the views of CSC and its staff or editors.
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Is there a provision for the other team just saying, "No mas fubol?"
This isn't about rules, it's about manners. Now there's no rule that says that I cant come over here and fart on your entree. But I don't do it. Why? Because it's not good manners.
No... actually.
You have to play it out… even if the play is a knee.
-
That is extremely weird, CP.
It’s gonna be on NFL Reply during the week. Maybe they will explain it.
Glad I’m not the only one who didn’t get that
by BlackandGold4ever on Jan 9, 2012 6:42 AM CST up reply actions
CP, I was wondering about the same thing at the time
My hypothesis is that maybe the Detroit coach talked to the Ref and said – we’re just going to take a knee, so it’s ok with us if you just let the clock run out (and then we can all get to Bourbon Street that much faster…). The parenthesis part is a joke, but the first part is serious, but I have no idea if that kind of thing is legal, or just understood and swept under the rug, or what…
Having the ball is better than not having the ball. And if you punt,
not only does it mean you don't have the ball anymore—
it means you didn't score, which sucks.
Not sure either. It does affect the final TOP split, so if that’s statistic isn’t being accurately kept, I don’t know how one could possibly dismiss its importance … *sasquatch poke
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
Not at all. Would passing yardage miscalculated after the fact render passing yardage meaningless? Of course not. The yardage would have served its purpose (advancing the offense) in the game. Use of those miscalculated totals to illustrate the importance (or non-importance) of passing yards, however, could very well be flawed.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
Yes. At all.
Maybe not by much, but you can’t COMPLETELY dismiss it.
Hatred strikes me as one of the few signs of life remaining in the world. This is another thing about the world which is upsidedown: all the friendly and likable people seem dead to me; only the haters seem alive.
by Joseph William Stern on Jan 11, 2012 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
That's pretty much all I could think of.
As far as legality? I always thought it was pointless for teams to come out and run out the final few seconds when obvious futility was involved (“obvious futility” being in the eye of the beholder, or in this case, three scores in 36 seconds when starting from your own 4 yard line.
This isn't about rules, it's about manners. Now there's no rule that says that I cant come over here and fart on your entree. But I don't do it. Why? Because it's not good manners.
).
Pesky closed parentheses.
This isn't about rules, it's about manners. Now there's no rule that says that I cant come over here and fart on your entree. But I don't do it. Why? Because it's not good manners.
I have seen a couple of NFL games end on winning TDs without a PAT being attempted and by rule, you’re supposed to at least attempt one, regardless of its importance to the game’s outcome. They must just get lax in certain situations.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
I guess the only one's I've seen end like that are Sudden Death OTs,
and by rule the game ends as soon as the ball crosses the goal line.
This isn't about rules, it's about manners. Now there's no rule that says that I cant come over here and fart on your entree. But I don't do it. Why? Because it's not good manners.
I’ve seen a couple of regulation games end that way. I think both teams were on the field shaking hands already. Conversely, I’ve seen at least one game where the both teams were summoned back on to the field at the end of the first half to run a meaningless play, because there was 1 second left on the clock after the play clock expired.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
yep
I’ve seen at least one game where the both teams were summoned back on to the field at the end of the first half to run a meaningless play
I’ve seen that a couple of times… and I’ve seen the other situation as well…. but in those games, the officials try to get the game back on track, but fail.
Right. I think they attempt to restore order, then just give up. There’s typically a lot of celebrating going on. Fans sometimes rush the field, etc. Depends on the magnitude of the game. Not positive on this, but I don’t think the Stanford-California game (when the band was on the field) ended on a PAT. College game, but the logistics/rules still apply. And they definitely didn’t have OT back then, so it occurred in regulation.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
There was also an NFL game suspended due to lightning at some point in the 1980s. I want to say it was Chicago versus San Diego. They never did come back and finish that. May have been an exhibition game, though.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
I’m fairly certain the one you mentioned where they called them back from the locker room to take a knee was the Ravens/Browns game where Dawson’s field goal kick hit the cross-bar about bounced back onto the field of play.
The Ravens thought they won and went to the locker room… after a loooong review, the called it a FG and broght the Ravens back out from the locker room
They already had decided not to use a timeout in essence tapping out. Regardless, since there are 45 secs on the playclock they did not have to actually line up before the 36 secs on the gameclock expired.
In Breesus' name we play
by Breesus Christ Superstar on Jan 8, 2012 8:57 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Correct. The game clock wouldn’t continue to run after the snap.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
The play clock, I mean. And the 4th down snap is what I’m referring to.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
The sports writer for the Shreveport Times said....
“Things got so ugly, officials, in a rare move, ran off the final 30 seconds of the game despite a change of possession”. Rare indeed. I’m over 50 years old ad that was a first for me……….. He did not say however, that it was a legal move by rule.
"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading" Henny Youngman
I’d be interested to see how that rule is worded.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
Never mind, I just realized you said he did NOT say it was.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
The TOP still adds up to 60:00. I don’t really feel like reverse engineering the play-by-play to see who actually got credit for it. I’ll assume the Saints did erroneously.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
I caught that too, the missed change of possession
And also wondered why it happened. I just (wrongly) assumed that the TV crew had the 4th down wrong and it must have really been 3rd down.
SP: "No, No, No. I said 'Let's all take it to the Vikes again' not' Let's all take 2 Vicoden!'"
Wow! CP, you attention to detail is mind-boggling and worth a Whodat!
Just seems like sloppiness at the end of a long game with no hope of it changing anything. Personally, I hate such sloppiness.
Saw that while watching the game...I had just figured I miscounted the downs.
-Lombardi was wrong...it's the internet, not fatigue that makes cowards of us all. But then again, what do you expect. Not like the guy could see the future.
I guess the other team gains possession
but then elects to let the clock run out since there’s no purpose in playing the last down.
The NFL said it was a "judgment call"
And that the refs had the authority to just let the clock run if the other team was clearly uninterested in continuing to play.
I think that’s pretty retarded. But since it wasn’t “officially” a bad call, it only hurts the bookies, and I couldn’t care less about them if you paid me to try.
the benches took the field.. detroit had conceaded..
we could have scored too.. & we chose to take kneel downs..
& to think that with 38 seconds detroit could actually score a TD, no less seems a little far fetched..
conspiracy theories are great unless they are ridiculous..
by the 9th plague on Jan 9, 2012 8:24 PM CST up reply actions
I think that’s pretty retarded.
Agreed. They should be adhering to the rules regardless of the circumstances.
"I don’t intend to draw any conclusions from any single game." -Brian Burke
"I will now attempt to exclude specific large amounts of TOP from the totals of winning teams, in order to prove that TOP doesn't contribute to winning." -Dr. Jeremy Arkes
They did adhere to the rules
Rules say refs are allowed to run off the time if a situation like that arises.
"I want to hand this trophy to the MVP of the Super Bowl -- and the MVP of the entire league.''
-- Saints coach Sean Payton, handing the Vince Lombardi Trophy to Drew Brees after Super Bowl 44.
I am pretty sure this would be the right answer.
Hatred strikes me as one of the few signs of life remaining in the world. This is another thing about the world which is upsidedown: all the friendly and likable people seem dead to me; only the haters seem alive.
by Joseph William Stern on Jan 11, 2012 11:30 AM CST up reply actions
As VA said, they did adhere to the rules.
I just think it’s retarded because the refs have WAY too many judgment calls to worry about already, and now they have even more? And I think it’s retarded because it’s an actual RULE (or at least “common practice”) that the refs have the OPTION to decide whether the clock runs or not?
That’s what’s wacko, not that they “didn’t adhere to the rules”. Obviously they did. I just think the rule itself is wacko.
Perhaps the Lions are technically charged a penalty that includes a clock runoff.
Hatred strikes me as one of the few signs of life remaining in the world. This is another thing about the world which is upsidedown: all the friendly and likable people seem dead to me; only the haters seem alive.
by Joseph William Stern on Jan 11, 2012 11:29 AM CST reply actions
It think that's usually a 10-second runnoff.
This isn't about rules, it's about manners. Now there's no rule that says that I cant come over here and fart on your entree. But I don't do it. Why? Because it's not good manners.
Heh. Anybody remember Kentucky Fried Movie?
SEND HIM TO DETROIT!!
This isn't about rules, it's about manners. Now there's no rule that says that I cant come over here and fart on your entree. But I don't do it. Why? Because it's not good manners.
This is ridiculous. With 36 seconds left to play in the game, no chance in hell for the Lions to win and the game ended when the Lions should have gotten the ball back. Now we’re gonna have to hear that we cheated again and the refs are still helping us to win.
I mentioned it above, but in a case like taking a knee on fourth down and the clock not stopping could be called by the losing coach not to stop it due to the fact that they’re done and they won’t go back on the field. My high school teacher was also a ref and I asked him about this one day because I had seen it done, and that’s what he told me. Maybe the same is true in all of football.
Actually, I think Pizza is the only one bringing this up, and largely just out of curiosity.
I’m not really looking for it, but I haven’t heard any bitching about it. The Lions head coach would certainly have mentioned it at some point if he took exception. He was actually one of the first people on the field. This either makes him an idiot (entirely possible), or complicit in overlooking the rules.
This isn't about rules, it's about manners. Now there's no rule that says that I cant come over here and fart on your entree. But I don't do it. Why? Because it's not good manners.
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